v0.10.13.x RC5 Testing

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qwizzie

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i see the completion bar as a battery charger .. at 100% it will be fully charged but you can also stop the charging by removing the battery.

Same with the completion bar, you see the completion progress towards the amount of Darkcoin to anonymized & the rounds and right below you will
even see how much that completion progress exactly means in terms of amount anonymized.
Pressing the stop button will stop the process but lets you keep the build up anonymized coins.

We just need to inform people that pressing the stop button just stops further anonymization.
 
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Stealth923

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Another user interface concern from my side (please note that I am an industry expert in user interface and design).

I think the use of a progress bar to indicate how many coins have been anonymized is misleading to new users.

Progress bars are usually used to indicate the progress of a download, installation or file transfer. The main goal is to reach 100%. If progress bar does not reach 100%, the operation will be useless in all cases.

With darksend+ this is not the case; anonimizing 30% of your coins and then stopping could be a useful operation depending on the user's needs and intentions. It is not the main goal to reach 100%, or at least, not always.

I'm worried that the user will think he has to anonimize 100% of coins in order to have a successful operation, due to the use of a progress bar which I think is a misleading control in this case as it will be associated with common uses. It is arguably even a wrong use of this control, but I'm not sure of that. Percentage is a secondary type of information in this case, but it is presented as primary due to use of control.

To de-emphasize the anonimized coins in relation to total number of coins in wallet by making it a secondary piece of information, I suggest the following:
1) Instead of a progress bar, simply display percentage in text. Remove progress bar. Example format: "x of y coins are now anonymous (z%)" -- presenting the text like this will clarify the immediateness of the progress further in case of any remaining confusion.
2) To give the user the sense of a process being active, display an animated spinner or indeterminate progress bar while anonimization is active. An intermediate progress bar uses motion or some other indicator to show that progress is taking place, rather than using the size of the filled portion to show the total amount of progress.

Thoughts? I wouldn't say this is critical for RC5, unlike the addition of Start/Stop button, which was a massive win.

Diirk (coinzcoinzcoinz on BTCtalk)
I like it - good psychology - most people will panic when they dont see 100% show up!

Although if this is explained properly in release notes & within the program mouse over tips I dont see a huge problem.
 
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kryptofoo

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Got my 5000 tDRK through 4 rounds, yay! I ended up having 4995.00000057 Anonymized, 4999.1105 total. Looks like the progress bar will be stuck at 99% forever, because the last few tDRK in my wallet are have not been denominated. I have a lot of <1 tDRK adresses.

Just a nuisance really but wondering if Evan should exclude addresses with <1 tDRK in the completed % calculation.
 

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moli

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I don't see the point for the Progress Bar or any unnecessary GUIs. We've got the start and stop button, great, but without the button, it still works. Now if we've got the Progress Bar to work properly, fine, if not, I'd rather for it to go. I can see the progress from looking at the Coin Control, and the Unconfirmed and Anonymized boxes. This isn't an antivirus software, hardly works like any antivirus software. The simpler the wallets are, the better. I'd rather like to see my wallet work well with the anonymization, transactions, etc, than seeing some fancy GUIs which might interfere with the tasks of this type of wallets.
 

DrkMiner

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Updated to 13.9 and i'm still getting smashed with payments to yourself.

Sending log to Evan
Having same issue.

since last night been trying 20 DRK/2 rounds.

Stuck on 2% for few hours, and does payment to yourself every 30 min.

Okay.... I closed the wallet. over 20 "payment to yourself" Don't know if its an issue or due to the small testnet.
 
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TaoOfSatoshi

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OK, my wallet's been trying to anonymize 16,000 DRK for 48 hours now, still chugging away, many Darksend Denominates, and has anonymized 7,600 DRK so far.

As long as I see progress, I don't have any issues other than the sheer amount of time it takes.

Thankfully, I don't think there will be too many wallets with this kind of balance in the future with increased price.

Tao
 

Stealth923

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I just anonymized my 3 wallets each with around 8000+ DRK in them - took 24-36 hours to finish all 8 rounds but it did it 100%.

It works fine - just need other people to match amounts with :)
 
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oblox

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Can we just get rid of the progress bar and the specified amount to keep anonymized since it doesn't seem to stay around that area. Just let the user specify rounds and click start/stop when they get to the number of coins they want?
 

eduffield

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Having same issue.

since last night been trying 20 DRK/2 rounds.

Stuck on 2% for few hours, and does payment to yourself every 30 min.

Okay.... I closed the wallet. over 20 "payment to yourself" Don't know if its an issue or due to the small testnet.
Definitely an issue, could you sent the wallet.dat to me please? [email protected]
 

JGCMiner

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Can we just get rid of the progress bar and the specified amount to keep anonymized since it doesn't seem to stay around that area. Just let the user specify rounds and click start/stop when they get to the number of coins they want?

The problem with this is that it often takes hours for any coins to show up as anonymized (even on mainnet). In the meantime the laymen user has NO idea if the software is working or not. The advanced user can check coin control, but I'd bet most people had no idea coin control even existed. I didn't until recently.

I see two alternatives:
1. Write the progress as text percentage.
- there is really no advantage to this and the user now has to read rather than understanding the progress at a glance.

2. Rewrite Darksend so that it prioritizes getting small number of coins through the anonymization process (i.e. 10 coins go round 1 to 8 before any other coins reach round 1) rather than trying to get all coins to the same round before beginning the next round (i.e 500 coins all go together to round 1 then all to round 2 etc.)

If possible, 2 is probably better than the current progress bar -- but as it stands now removing the bar = asking user to wait a while without getting any feedback. Remember people are often very inpatient.
 

oblox

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The problem with this is that it often takes hours for any coins to show up as anonymized (even on mainnet). In the meantime the laymen user has NO idea if the software is working or not. The advanced user can check coin control, but I'd bet most people had no idea coin control even existed. I didn't until recently.

I see two alternatives:
1. Write the progress as text percentage.
- there is really no advantage to this and the user now has to read rather than understanding the progress at a glance.

2. Rewrite Darksend so that it prioritizes getting small number of coins through the anonymization process (i.e. 10 coins go round 1 to 8 before any other coins reach round 1) rather than trying to get all coins to the same round before beginning the next round (i.e 500 coins all go together to round 1 then all to round 2 etc.)

If possible, 2 is probably better than the current progress bar -- but as it stands now removing the bar = asking user to wait a while without getting any feedback. Remember people are often very inpatient.
If you are going to keep the progress bar, it should better reflect what is happening. Just because the layperson is a simpleton doesn't mean it is going to make him understand anything better if it stays at 98% or reflects a percentage that doesn't make any functional sense.
 

JGCMiner

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If you are going to keep the progress bar, it should better reflect what is happening. Just because the layperson is a simpleton doesn't mean it is going to make him understand anything better if it stays at 98% or reflects a percentage that doesn't make any functional sense.
Is there a specific bug you are talking about? I haven't seen anything that "doesn't make sense" about the progress bar on the lastest version.

You really have to try to think about someone who knows nothing about DRK and is the classic skeptical crypto user/investor. Telling someone like that to sit and wait 30mins, or an hour, or three for coins to show up as anonymous all the while fees are constantly being charged is not going to end well.

Evan has been very receptive to community ideas. If you have a better way to get the user realtime feedback then please suggest it. We are all trying to improved DRK here.
 
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moli

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I think the confusion is the progress bar shows the completion of the rounds (which is actually the anonymization process), but doesn't show the anonymized coins (which are not anonymized as specified yet). So when there's 0 anon coins on the screen and the progress bar shows 75%, it can be confusing for some people. Here's an example:

upload_2014-9-15_3-14-8.png

I have 0 anonymized tdrk, yet, the progress bar says 75%. But, let's look at the Coin Control screen, it shows all my denominate amounts have finished 6 out of 8 rounds, and that is 75% of the process:

upload_2014-9-15_3-20-38.png

So the Coin Control is where it holds the information, and for some of us, we prefer to look for the info there.
 

JGCMiner

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I think the confusion is the progress bar shows the completion of the rounds (which is actually the anonymization process), but doesn't show the anonymized coins (which are not anonymized as specified yet). So when there's 0 anon coins on the screen and the progress bar shows 75%, it can be confusing for some people. Here's an example:

View attachment 456

I have 0 anonymized tdrk, yet, the progress bar says 75%. But, let's look at the Coin Control screen, it shows all my denominate amounts have finished 6 out of 8 rounds, and that is 75% of the process:

View attachment 457

So the Coin Control is where it holds the information, and for some of us, we prefer to look for the info there.
Ok, but that is the point of the bar. To show people that something is happening even though no coins are yet anonymous. You can't expect noobs to use coin control.

What is the alternative? No progress information? A "your coins are 5.234566/8" readout? I see the current as the best possible option given the situation.

If anonymization was faster this wouldn't be an issue. Maybe we should just not open source before Evan's 15 second block time idea is implemented....
 

oblox

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Ok, but that is the point of the bar. To show people that something is happening even though no coins are yet anonymous. You can't expect noobs to use coin control.

What is the alternative? No progress information? A "your coins are 5.234566/8" readout? I see the current as the best possible option given the situation.

If anonymization was faster this wouldn't be an issue. Maybe we should just not open source before Evan's 15 second block time idea is implemented....
Just an animated status bar that loops would be suffice.
 
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stonehedge

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Just an animated status bar that loops would be suffice.
How many years did Microsoft spend trying to get the status bar working well? They eventually gave up and went with the looping option for most uses...
 

oblox

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How many years did Microsoft spend trying to get the status bar working well? They eventually gave up and went with the looping option for most uses...
Exactly. Simple users just want to see that something is happening. If they want to know the actual status, they can go into coin control for the nitty gritty (no different than a windows user clicking expand during an install and seeing the command line install.
 

JGCMiner

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Just an animated status bar that loops would be suffice.
I guess. I think this is just a personal preference thing. I don't think the current bar is confusing, but if the majority do then a looping status bar is far better than nothing.
 
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Probe

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May 28, 2014
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****** PLEASE UPDATE TO v9.13.9 (Stable) OR 10.13.9 (RC) *******

There's good reason why we don't use three participants for DS on testnet, there's just not enough wallets to combine with to keep the network going all of the time. I really just wanted to make sure 3 worked, so we could use it on mainnet.

- Testnet merges use two, while mainnet merges will use 3 participants
- Fixed the endless splitting issue causes by splitting 1000DRK and not making a DS compatible input

(waiting for flare's excellent compiling service)
Is "three participants DS" going to solve the sybil attack issue ?
Masternode snooping appearing to be easy fix. Is it going to be implemented in RC 5 ?
 

Kai

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I guess. I think this is just a personal preference thing. I don't think the current bar is confusing, but the majority do then a looping status bar is far better than nothing.
When money is not directly involved the users may not care about that. But it's a different story here, a looping status bar is like : "I'm maybe stuck or I'm working fine, keep looking for the answer in few days, hours, minutes who knows ? ;)"
 
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oblox

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When money is not directly involved the users may not care about that. But it's a different story here, a looping status bar is like : "I'm maybe stuck or I'm working fine, keep looking for the answer in few days, hours, minutes who knows ? ;)"
...and the progress bar as is is any better? Right.
 

JGCMiner

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When money is not directly involved the users may not care about that. But it's a different story here, a looping status bar is like : "I'm maybe stuck or I'm working fine, keep looking for the answer in few days, hours, minutes who knows ? ;)"
You are preachin' to the choir man. :)
 

moli

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When money is not directly involved the users may not care about that. But it's a different story here, a looping status bar is like : "I'm maybe stuck or I'm working fine, keep looking for the answer in few days, hours, minutes who knows ? ;)"
Actually the loop is already there, just not in a GUI for you to see, but if you have participated on testnet or have actually used Darksend on main net, you should have seen the loop in words, like these...

"Submitted to masternode, waiting in queue .
Submitted to masternode, waiting in queue ..
Submitted to masternode, waiting in queue ...
Submitted to masternode, Waiting for more entries (1/2 ) .
Darksend is idle

Submitted to masternode, waiting in queue ...
Darksend denomination is incompatible... Will try again...
Darksend is idle

Submitted to masternode, waiting in queue ...
Submitted to masternode, Waiting for more entries (2/2 ) ...
Submitted to masternode, entries 2/2
Darksend request complete: Transaction Created Successfully! (If you're lucky or know how to get to this part)
Darksend is idle
.......... "

I wouldn't look for this info in a loop bar or any bar, but I read it and decide what's next for my anonymization, and it's better to know where my money is in the loop than to just let it sit there with unlocked encryption.
 
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qwizzie

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Definitely an issue, could you sent the wallet.dat to me please? [email protected]
Is Chaeplin reply also still an issue ? or has the protocol version been updated since ?

Also how will we proceed with the RC5 testing now.. with regards to your latest info about possibly implementing anonymous instant transactions ?
 

flare

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Is Chaeplin reply also still an issue ? or has the protocol version been updated since ?
The protocol version will be fixed in the next release (v10)

Also how will we proceed with the RC5 testing now.. with regards to your latest info about possibly implementing anonymous instant transactions ?
Testing will continued as normal, anonymous instant transactions are scheduled for post RC5. We will release v10 later the day.
 
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