Welcome to the Dash Forum!

Please sign up to discuss the most innovative cryptocurrency!

Pre-Proposal - Visual Identity

Discussion in 'Budget Proposal Discussions' started by fernando, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. kaene

    kaene New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I'm ready to vote against O&M logo, it looks like "hey, we are another shitcoin changing one more time our logo/branding"
    T&C at least shows continuity, but I'm happy enough with current one

    Please, could we stop wasting money on BS and spend a bit more on development and innovation? Thanks ...
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
    Dash Support Group

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    2,322
    Likes Received:
    3,235
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    Hey guys, there are 2 more cents from me.

    Let's talk about "readability" of logos. IMO it's very important for logo to be readable and quickly-accurately giving the word "Dash" to people who is looking at it for the first time - for all nations around the world.

    The thing that I don't like in our current logo - it's bad "readability" (at least for Russians and I think for many other nations). People can't read our current "D" as "D" without addinional explanatory "dash" word in normal font near it. The same story with our current "A" which can be interpreted as "R". In fact both of our current "D" and "A" letters looks like unclear "alien" or "arabic" letters and don't afford to get the word "Dash" without additional explanations. And it obstructs rapid understanding and memorization.

    That is why I like clear "Dash" font in O&M design. In fact their "D" looks like "Sail" to me - very positive and uplifting association...
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  3. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Branding and appearance are important, but let's not forget the economic reality here. We're not really competing against other cryptos. We're competing against all the crappy fiat in the world, of which there are great stinking piles in many countries. With proper informative advertising, our logo could be the poop emoji and we would still kick the Venezuelan Bolivar's ass. Do you really think that Indians who are paying 4-7% robbery to send a remittance really care what the logo is when they can send Dash for a penny?

    So, be thoughtful. Don't jump to conclusions based on emotions. Do your own honest and unbiased test on 20 friends that know nothing about crypto. But keep in mind that in the grand scheme, beating fiat is like falling down when you're learning to ice skate. It WILL happen.

    And don't forget, the linked D's become easy and intuitive if we make the text under the logo read:

    Dash
    Digital Cash

    not your grandma's cash
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. t0dd

    t0dd Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Dash Address:
    XyxQq4qgp9B53QWQgSqSxJb4xddhzk5Zhh
    MY VOTE: Tharp and Clark

    First off, let me say that I am darn happy because the I generally like both Ogilvy's and T&C's designs. So, that was a pleasant surprise.

    Here's my 2-duff summary:
    • Simple is better. It scales in use case more cleanly. T&C wins hands down in this department.
    • We need flexibility in colors. Ogilvy's are without a doubt, IMHO, awful, but I like that they were trying.

    So, I seperate my thoughts in two parts: (1) Structure and styling, (2) Color.

    Color:
    • I really dislike Dash's current default color. The blue is too light, IMHO and difficult to incorporate into branding, IMHO. Therefore, whatever we pick, it has to be darker. I want to wear a Dash T-Shirt someday.
    • Whatever we pick needs a well thought out default pallet and complementary colors to work with. Ogilvy tried to do this but...
    • Ogilvy's breath of colors is ambitious, but awful. It's grating. Hard to look at.

    Style and Structure:
    • Ogilvy's - Summary: NO
      • Clever. You can view it as layering. As 2 Ds. Or as a D and a C (Digital Cash). I like that. It looks really nice in some contexts.
      • Dash written out should be able to use the icon as the first D IMHO. I think this is important. You can't with this design.
      • The Dash lettering is uninspiring and drab.
    • T&C's - Summary: YES
      • Simple and elegant.
      • It can look a bit blah in some contexts, but I think on the whole it's more flexible. Clean. Pretty.
      • It looks like more of a progression from the old logo versus a total do over.
      • You use the icon as the first D in Dash. I think this is important.
      • The fonts scheme for the whole word is very attractive and again, clean, pretty.
    So... Tharp and Clark for the win! Ship it!
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Enzwell

    Enzwell Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    68
    I was hoping for something really good from O&M but I'm disappointed.
    The color and scaling problems are serious, there is too much detail in the DD for it too be seen well at icon size or from a distance. And that font... yuk.

    The T&C attempt is better but still not something I would vote for (I don't have a vote.)

    The point made above about the cost, time, and difficulties in updating, for the start-up level people working with Dash around the world, is valid.

    I would argue for keeping the current logo.

    The current logo was never pitched like a design though, it was just chosen/won. It does have some great features.

    The negative space in the A (being a C) says both "Dash" and DcASH".
    The blockchain is already represented with the block letters of the name. No stacking necessary.

    DBlkChn2.png

    I was disappointed with the lines in the current logo back when it showed up though.
    The thickness varies strangely and those inside corners are ridiculous.
    But those can be fixed so it's easier on the eyes.
    Here's a quick (sloppy) example tweak I did to fix those (also shortening the letters horizontally).

    DashTxtX.png

    And of course, more could be done in this vein...

    DashD_Updi.jpg

    Cheers,
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. demo

    demo Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,070
    Likes Received:
    229
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    If the "expertise in logos" isn't snake oil salesmanship, I don't know what is. Sure, it works sometimes. But then again, so does snake oil.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Trolling Trolling x 2
  7. joemoraca

    joemoraca Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    88
    I am not a fan of the multi color gradient but like the new concept.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. The philosofers coin

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I expected allot more. I was hoping and looking for something at or near the level of Apple, but because it not I want provide some insight as well.

    First of, I do think we need a logo, that is more friendly, less intimating less aggressive, and is softer and more inviting (it would also invite less trolling as well)

    I personally requested quit a few logo contest myself where the winner gets something between 25 till 100 dollar first price.
    I have spend quit some time in perfecting the whole process from need of a logo to helping my customers choosing the best logo for them.
    I do get decent to good results with them, which I than sell to company's that need a logo. Most entry's can only dream of working at company's mentioned above that is why I am a bite disappointed,

    The main problem creating a logo its not yet science (perhaps it will never be), but there are some basic's. I wanted to write down a few so it would help other make a better decision.

    1) Branding. branding comes from burning in, basically you want to be able to burn in the logo into peoples minds (test to check it the logo is easy to remember, just look at it for about 2 seconds than close your eye's and draw it in your head, which one you can do the best is the winner)
    2) Color use. In General a logo has primary and secondary colors. This make a logo easy to read and understand, going a bit deeper into it, the more color's you use the more a viewer brain needs to concentrate. The science behind is continuing to evolve, for instance putting your screen's on night-mode is becoming more and more widely used. For most people this not a problem at all, because most of use have good eye's and brainpower (we use a special part of the brain to make sense of what your viewing). None the less it puts some strain on it. I am quite sensitive to it and the Ogilvy logo actually give me a tingling in my brain,it would probably give me headache if I would be focusing on it for a long time.
    3) Legible, the logo needs to be legible from favcon all the way to billboard
    4) distinguishable from your competition (all other coins)
    5) If a company/foundation/DAO is planning to remain in business for decades (which we are) the logo should have room to grow (very well displayed by Damian Walker) its soon not be something that just something that just fashionable (like tribal tattoo's). I feel quit confident that the Ogilvy is actualy just that something fashionable


    Furthermore
    Can you make out by it's logo that it does ? not very likely as crypto as currency is still a brand new concept, but "Digital Cash" slogan certainly is (which why is wish to use slogan's when ever needed) Have both logo, and the name, and a slogan is often a bit to much to be displayed, Just a word, with the logo build into it and the slogan is superior. The double D needed to be explained, no body got it before they explained it, this a definite no no, unless we want to be cryptic but we want to be easy enough for our grandma's

    At any-rate Ogilvy failed in all the test above(@Walter read my points), which comes to me as a complete shock seeing they are topnotch in their field. (please do them for yourself)
    If I have to choose between current, and these two, Tharp & Clark is the clear winner

    * I thinking about just doing my price contest which I pay out of my own pocket (not sure I should because I don't want to add to the confusion)
     
    #128 The philosofers coin, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
    • Agree x 3
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Dumb x 1
  9. Walter

    Walter Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2014
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    183
    Trophy Points:
    103
    What are these arbitrary tests you talk of actually based on?

    Walter
     
    #129 Walter, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 2
  10. LostInSpace

    LostInSpace Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    78
    T&C Design is nicer, especially for a small logo (if you look to the left I like simple designs ^^), DD logo from Ogilvy looks ok when just white or black, but it disappears into a blob once you zoom out, don't like that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Kanuuker

    Kanuuker New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    As I stated earlier, the entire point of Evolution is to hide the blockchain and the second layer from the general public, the very audience the logo is supposed to be targeting. Based on that, the O&M logo, which is supposed to represent Dash's second layer, makes absolutely no sense, it's exactly the wrong logo for Dash's direction.

    @Santi Could you please let us know your team's thought process on designing a logo based on the very thing that Dash is trying to hide? Also, can you explain, in your own words, what Evolution is and why it's so important to Dash? If you can't do that, are you sure O&M is the right team for Dash?

    @fernando @Ryan Taylor I would also like to hear your thoughts on why the O&M logo is even being considered as it clearly doesn't represent the direction Dash is going. Are you aware of this discrepancy of the logo representing the thing that Dash is trying to hide?
     
    #131 Kanuuker, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. JGCMiner

    JGCMiner Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    196
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @fernando @Ryan Taylor

    Since this will be decided by a simple majority (rather than yes - no > 10%) you should make it clear when you post the proposal how many MNOs must participate for the vote to be valid.

    Ideally, all would participate and a simple majority would mean over 50% of the MNOs agree on a decision, but since that is unlikely I would clearly state some criteria.

    IMO, the criteria must be at least 10% participation, but personally I might set the threshold at 20% or even 30% to make sure the temperature of the MNOs has properly been taken.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. Samurai33

    Samurai33 New Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Seeing the proposal of a new logo, I feel oldness for the present logo.

    People in the world will look at the logo of Dash every day from now on. The icon will be put at a conspicuous place on a smart phone and a desktop. I think that a weariless design, familiarity which allures many people, and comprehensibility are important.

    I cast my vote for the T&C proposal from the above thing.

    The O&M proposal is refined, however I afraid that it makes beginners feel difficulty and complexity.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Max Yoga

    Max Yoga Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Brand Thinking.jpeg
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Max Yoga

    Max Yoga Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Brand Thinking2.jpeg And the technical reasons -
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Kanuuker

    Kanuuker New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2017
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    It seems to me that most of the pro O&M arguments fall along the lines of "Ooh, it's shiny" and have little substance to back up their reasoning. I've seen a number of people who claim the pink and blue DD stands out more as a small avatar on mockups such as coinmarketcap. However, I don't think they're recognizing the DD, they're just seeing the pink color. I would wager that if you just put a pink and blue blob there, it would be just as recognizable. If you were to put the O&M DD logo on a sheet among several of the vast multitude of other DD logos, and made the sheet gray scale, the DD would never stand out. I bet many people wouldn't even find it or guess the wrong one entirely. It's that generic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  17. Foyva

    Foyva New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I do not get a vote but I think T&C is the way to go. It keeps the familiar Color and design the network has already been promoting, just an evolution.

    I don't give much weight to the statistics in the O&M proposal. Changing color and the D is to radical of a change. T&C could accomplish the same thing as O&M with out making the brand completely unrecognizable to current users.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. IronVape

    IronVape Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Submit, vote, and move on. Evolution matters. Nothing else.
     
    • Dumb Dumb x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,420
    Likes Received:
    875
    Trophy Points:
    183
    A message to Core. You need Super Majority, that's how it works here. It was required for 2MB update (easy), it was required to guarantee fees remain below 1 cent. In fact, super majority has been required for all proposals, this one will be no different. You don't get to choose what the rules are, the dash governance does.

    Please recall the last conference call when Ryan was specifically asked what improvements were needed to the treasury. His answer was, there was nothing pressing, it was working as it should.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. Kalon

    Kalon New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Dash Address:
    Xq52HDbX7GA1Nw81erU6zt1XCyhGqu6kqi
    I don't think any of this need to happen now. It will cause all kinds of problems without much (if any) benefit. There are plenty of well put comments against making changes (such as the one with Amanda's video), so I will no go on about it. If for some reason we are really itching for a new logo as a community, then let me just say I'd rather be evolutionary, rather than revolutionary.

    My quick mock-up of a slightly softer logo.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  21. dashnode

    dashnode New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    3
    "I like this" "I like that". As others have said it doesn't matter what you like. You (we) aren't average joe. You are a nerd and a crypto enthusiast. And on top of that you have probably been involved with dash for months or years at this point and are used to the current logo. This logo isn't for you, it's for the general public.

    O&M have polled the different logos and found a winner. If you don't like their poll results then go ahead and ask all your friends and see what they say. Almost everyone I ask prefers the O&M version over the original, and majority prefer O&M over T&C.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  22. DAOMN

    DAOMN Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2017
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Six days to go. Is the brand logo vote going to be in March or is it slated for April?
     
  23. Name3

    Name3 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    78
    This will most likely get buried, but I think we should go with the OM design. If I ignore my own opinions on what Dash should look like it just makes the most sense. We have hard data proving that people on the whole respond to this logo more than our current one. Not that I dislike the other option but we have no idea how people respond to it.

    On top of that it communicates all the ideas we want it to, its disruptive and new and all that good stuff. I will personally be voting for the OM logo.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  24. masternube

    masternube New Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    > We have hard data proving that people on the whole respond to this logo more than our current one.

    Where is this hard data? In the presented document I only see the logo compared to other logos that also have pink and gradient.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Mark Mason

    Mark Mason Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Messages:
    772
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    133
    After sleeping on the new logo pre-proposal - visual identity. I now know what the O+M color palette used reminds me of. The colors used are very progressive aren't they in the gender identity political sense. A bit too feminine for my liking. I also echo others after looking at their polling results I think it was unfair that they used the same gradient on original logo when performing survey. Just my 2 cents. I'm currently leaning more towards keeping original current logo.

    upload_2018-3-24_15-10-29.png

    I'm also concerned from a distance O+M logo is very hard to identify. It looks like a scribble. I tested it as a favicon on web browser. It looks like a paper clip.

    upload_2018-3-24_15-18-20.png

    Also using as O+M logo as a currency symbol is causing me some concerns. The problem is the lines are too thin so blur when size is decreased. Take the Dash mobile wallet for example to showcase what I mean:

    Current logo vs O+M Logo

    upload_2018-3-24_15-35-16.png

    As of right now. My preference would be too keep orignal from a practical perspective.

    From a purely selfish point of view. I also find the O+M logo too restricting in my line of work. I've created well over a 1000 images with current Dash logo not including memes, gifs and t shirt designs. I feel rather limited by the double D and it's proving hard to work with already. I can use the current solo D logo easily to incorporate and manipulate in to images for news articles or even photo manipulation for jokey memes. Just looking at exisitng t shirt designs replacing with the DD logo is not pleasing to the eye.

    The simplicty of current logo over O+M is important to recognize especially for languages that do not use the same alphabet. If you were living in China & did not know English. If I showed you each logo for 3 seconds and then asked you to draw it on a piece of paper. The current D only consists of 2 simple lines so easy a kid could draw it regardless of native language. The O+M paperclip is too complex to accuratley replicate, would it be recognizable when you factor in design angle etc. Don't believe me try it yourself. Also if you have kids ask them to take the 3 second logo Dash draw challenge.

    Which logo is more recognizable?

    upload_2018-3-24_16-34-49.png

    Is it a diamond? is it DareDevil? is it an hourglass? or is it a paperclip?

    O+M logo reminds me too much of Clippy from Windows XP 2001.

    upload_2018-3-24_16-26-18.png

    The current Dash D has more use as we've seen international communities take ownership proudly using overlays with their nation flags. You are way too limited to customize O+M logo due to thin lines.

    With all that being said. I don't like the T&C logo either. It feels like it's been forced when it's not needed. It's about what is fit for purpose. I think this whole rebranding exercise has made me realize just how strong and versatile our current logo is in terms of applications and various media it is used in.

    For that reason alone I see no justification for change just for the sake of changing. There was no dissatisfaction with current logo. All value is belief. It's the utility and benefits Dash provides that will carry Dash to the top not the packaging.

    We're trying way too hard, trying to fix a problem that doesn't need fixing. The free market will ultimately decide via natural selction if we're truly the best solution in our field. Not based on logo but on functionality and ease of use alone. In my opinion we should be focussing our energy developing the functionality and continue to build from within. Fancy packaging only gets you so far, it's what's inside that counts that determines if people will use Dash again and again.

    I'm proud when I tell people about our current Dash logo as last time round the final result was an amalgamation of multiple logo entries by community and it has stood the test of time. I'm proud of that history and I'm not convinced it needs changing.

    https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-logo-contest.4394/
    https://www.dashfoundation.io/blog/vote-on-the-logo-is-open/

    It's a large scale marketing advertising outreach strategy campaign where we need the help most not the logo.

    In my opinion all this time, energy and Dash spent on this exercise is a bitter pill to swallow as we could of been advertising and doing outreach efforts for months now utilizing social media platforms what we already had in our arsenal prior to ban announcements. I feel we've missed a real opportunity here. C'est la vie, life goes on.

    I'm a true blue Dash fan through and through. If you want folks to know Dash is the champion of digital cash then throw a crown on the current D logo. Get creative and get the message right, don't try and reinvent the wheel from scratch at the expense of losing our identity and history with O+M logo. It's all about the journey folks. Besides Dash is no longer 2 layer. As we learnt in recent Evolution Demo 1 video Dash will be more a blockchain cube. So O+M logo is already outdated in that context.
     
    • Winner x 7
    • Like x 4
    • Agree x 3
    • Useful x 2
    • Disagree x 1
  26. dazman

    dazman Active Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2014
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    139
    Trophy Points:
    93
    being creative...

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 3
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
    • Creative Creative x 1
  27. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,420
    Likes Received:
    875
    Trophy Points:
    183
    I like that, though you need to make those slices wider so it's more immediately obvious.
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  28. unchained

    unchained New Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2017
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    3
    im for keeping or updating the current logo. i was just looking at the bitcoin B on my twitter feed and then saw these O&M 2 ugly double chain link Ds, this has got to be the most amatuer looking logo ive ever seen. it lacks depth and warmth, it doesnt make me feel anything. the current logo D has the makings of a currency symbol, like B for Bitcoin.

    update the look, but dont drastically change it

    my 2c
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  29. djcrypto

    djcrypto Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    88
    @alex-ru can you comment on the compatibility with the T&C logo into the Russian symbology/ language?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  30. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
    Dash Support Group

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    2,322
    Likes Received:
    3,235
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    I do not want to criticize anything, but T&C option doesn't look too different from our current logo for me (and it looks even less "readable" because of the "unclear" letter "A"), and therefore not worth more than inconvenience of rebranding. If you do rebranding, then "because of the need," and not just "out of boredom."
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1

Share This Page