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Pre-Proposal - Visual Identity

Discussion in 'Budget Proposal Discussions' started by fernando, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. Captain_Tom

    Captain_Tom New Member

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    Completely agree with your second point. That "swivel" is ingenious, but the font sucks.
     
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  2. Arthyron

    Arthyron Active Member
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    Maybe this is my nerd biases showing through, but the first thing that comes to mind with the O&M logo is similar to the Daredevil logo: https://goo.gl/Fj5QDB ...only with a "Gambit" or "Archangel" color scheme: http://www.marveldirectory.com/pictures/individuals/a_3d/archangel.gif

    That being said, I think I prefer it over all, noting the previous objections raised by others from a graphic design standpoint (degree in CGT here), that gradients can be difficult to consistently reproduce across platforms and media. Single colors are problematic enough, gradients exponentially moreso. I will also say that @alex-ru 's slight modification is actually an improvement and I would vote for it over O&Ms because the "Double D" leads to an ambiguous or nebulous meaning without the subtitle "Digital Cash," which leads to "well why not a D and a C instead of two D's?" Hats off, Alex-RU, I vote for your version.

    I'd say I also prefer the current logo to the T&M logo from a personal aesthetic, but I also recognize that the general populace would probably find the T&M logo more appealing. It has a softer, more welcoming quality to it than the current logo.

    When it comes down to a vote...it will be a difficult decision, but I'm currently prioritizing them that way.
     
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  3. Kanuuker

    Kanuuker New Member

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    And as I already said, the regular people don't care about Dash's second layer. The idea will be completely lost on them making the logo pointless.
     
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  4. Captain_Tom

    Captain_Tom New Member

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    Could I please talk to this person you consulted?

    Are these the same people interviewed who don't even own Bitcoin?! A progressive logo like that only makes sense when crypto is going mainstream, but it's still 2 years from that at least...
     
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  5. Narroway

    Narroway New Member

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    We have an understandable handycap when trying to pick between these two or possibly more brand logos.
    That is, we all are completely familiar with what Dash is. Unfortuneately 99% of the world population doesn't know
    what cryptocurrency is and I would venture that 99.9% or more have never heard of Dash in particular.
    The goal of any and all marketing is to increase brand awareness as cost efficiently as possible.
    Here-in is the problem with the Ogilvy logo. The double D graphic conveys absolutely no information to the onlooker.
    This reqires a second line be added, the word "Dash". But, as I mentioned this also is meaningless to the great majority
    so a third line is vitally needed "Digital Cash".
    "Ahhh! OK. Now I think I get it" says the viewer.
    The problem is that three distincly different lines were needed. I believe the double D symbol is unwise and somewhat useless.
    If Dash were a widely recognised brand/product only a symbol would be enough to convey the brands identity but we are far, far away from that point.
    The term "Digital Cash" is absolutely a must in my opinion and will be for a good while.
    Amanda says it beatifully here. Please watch.
     
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  6. Kanuuker

    Kanuuker New Member

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    Why would they form the logo based on the second layer? Isn't the entire point of Evolution to hide the blockchain and the second layer from regular people, aka the audience this logo is targeting? I feel that O&M doesn't understand anything about Dash and what its trying to do. They just made a logo based on marketing principles. The logo is 180 degrees opposite from the direction Dash is going.
     
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  7. Household Name®

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    Hi Mike––

    Please explain your opinion with rationale versus the current design, and the Ogilvy design.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Critical Input

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    Is this true? Really! Normies don't give a funk about the back end of VISA or Dash...and should not give a funk about the backend of PayPal or MasterCard. smh
     
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  9. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    @fernando @Ryan Taylor
    The survey that was conducted was comparing the Ogilvy logo with the current Dash logo, but the current Dash logo that was compared had the pink and blue color gradient applied. Some in this thread and in the Discord channel have also questioned the objectivity of the study. Could you weigh in on that issue? Also, would it be possible for us to gather any objective data that directly compares the O&M logo with the T&C logo or the current dash logo as it is now (blue)?
     
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  10. j0shua

    j0shua Official Dash Dev
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    @Kanuuker has expressed my reservations about the O&M logo perfectly. After looking at the icon sized logo displays I really like the Tharp logo the best.
     
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  11. DAOMN

    DAOMN Member

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    This is the best post in this thread so far. THANK YOU!!

    The only way to keep the current logo will be to vote NO on both alternatives. This feels too rushed. Seven days until this cycles voting deadline and it has not yet been posted, at least not on dashvotetracker.com.

    Please vote NO and NO.
     
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  12. studioz

    studioz Well-known Member

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    i don't like both logos :( i will miss my old D
     
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  13. DAOMN

    DAOMN Member

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    You won't have to if enough people are persuaded to vote NO and NO. :)
     
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  14. EvoLeaf

    EvoLeaf New Member

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    There are many problems with the O&M logo as Kanuuker has said above.

    To me, the chained D's look like they wouldn't scale very well as a small icon. Also, I agree that it looks like a backend corporate logo, Like Proctor & Gamble vs Tide, which is a product offered directly to consumers.

    The T&C logo, on the other hand, is a simple, nice "evolution" (which is what Dash is all about, really) of the current logo that retains the unique "dash" while using a softer font that makes the name seem more like a word than an acronym. Also, the "D" works well as an icon and is one element instead of two, which I believe is important, especially since the phrase "digital cash" will need to be used alongside. This logo is more of what I expected from a professional marketing firm and I'm glad the network will have options.

    However, as feedbands suggested, I'd like to see it in a variety of different font options to see what works best.
     
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  15. bhkien

    bhkien Active Member
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    I prefer the old one.
     
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  16. QuantumExplorer

    QuantumExplorer Official Dash Dev
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    I always tried to keep an open mind when looking at the new logos. For starters I think strong gradients like the one seen in O & M should stay in the 2000 years and have no place anymore in design. I would like to add that I see the chain like a block chain. Without the strong gradient it looks professional and good for new users.

    I however do not particularly like the direction of the Tharp & Clark logo, as it's almost the same as the current one, with a font that screams "I'm trying to look cool and be trendy". Just don't like the font, but wouldn't mind that much if the community chose it in the end.

    I'm leaning towards supporting the current logo, I feel like it's part of our identity that we have built up for a while. It's on hats, cups, thousands of graphics, art and is easily writeable and recognizable. I just feel like we did extremely well the first time.

    As for studies that show that the O & M logo outperforms the current one, it outperforms it indeed among a general public, but only by 4.1 to 3.7 I believe. Is that 0.4 worth the change? If we change we will get a size-able percent of the community quite unhappy, plus the change will be complicated because it will have to occur on all of our products. As someone pointed out in one of the first posts with Visa/Mastercard, small incremental changes might be the way to go. I bet we could get those 0.4 points that way.

    But the biggest reason I don't want to change to the O&M is based on what Amanda said : Not sure what to do with Unicode symbol, whereas our current one and T & C has it as well.

    I would prefer we go back to the drawing board and ask for more options until we find something that had a stronger consensus. Nevertheless I will be 100% behind whatever choice is taken by the masternode network in the end.
     
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  17. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member
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    Lots of posts against the O&M logo! I still love it. :D
     
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  18. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    For me, reading the O&M FAQ document was critical. Completely agree with the reasoning provided in there about why the choice was made to go with a vibrant color scheme and the different look. I can appreciate the design choices in both styles, but I think O&M is what best fits our needs.

    At this stage in Dash's development - yes we have had the current logo for three years, but I don't put a lot of stock into our current brand identity. In the big picture we have barely scratched the surface of market penetration and brand identity, so I don't think we are really giving up very much by making larger changes at this time. When the time comes for future iterations and the network has grown a bit, then we can start thinking about starting to turn down the volume a little on the branding.
     
    #108 TroyDASH, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
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  19. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    I take issue with the "dash is not a company". While it is technically true, we do actually hope to be the third option sitting right there next to visa and mastercard. Who says a DAO can't be professional and outperform the old guard? Having said that, there's a lot of push back here and I'm nervous that core will submit the proposals anyway, in an attempt to shepherd us into a decision. From everything I've seen here, neither of these entries have met our expectations. I want to fire both O&M and T&C and start over with a completely different company. But if core does submit the proposals, I am seriously considering submitting my own alongside. dash-logo-evolved2.png
     
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  20. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member
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    My goodness.
     
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  21. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    If you think it is hard to get the network to decide between 3 options, how much more difficult do you think it will be if we open it up to hundreds of entries...
     
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  22. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    If they're willing to pay 5 dash then why not?
     
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  23. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    Though I'd prefer to find a new company.
     
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  24. QuantumExplorer

    QuantumExplorer Official Dash Dev
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    We could potentially extend our governance model to allow for competitions in the future. I'll think about how that would work :D
     
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  25. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    Yes, there are many examples of how this would be super useful.
     
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  26. QuantumExplorer

    QuantumExplorer Official Dash Dev
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    About competitions though, we are not there yet, so for now guys let's stick to the the proposed voting structure otherwise things will get too messy.

    I don't want my previous argument to be taken out of context, I don't think competitions in Dash are good until we have built the framework supporting them.
     
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  27. JOL

    JOL Member

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    Mes brother-in-Dash, que cela est un choix difficile à faire. Nous qui sommes tant attaché à Dash et dont le logo et la représentation sont la manifestation physique et symbolique de toutes cette aventure passée et toutes ses possibilités à venir.
    Comment ne pas laisser l'émotionnel prendre le pas sur un symbole source de tant de fierté et d'émotion.
    Vous tous, argumenterez sur le fait que votre choix est basé sur la réflexion, mais en vérité les arguments de chaqu'un ne seront là que pour soutenir son propre ressenti.
    Afin d'éviter ce travers j'ai dirigé un petit test sur mon entourage. Pour certain qui avait déjà vu Dash de loin, pour d'autre qui ne savaient même pas ce que c'était.
    J'ai été surpris de l’unanimité sur le travail produit par O&M.
    Serte ce test est à une toute petite échelle, il confirme les recherches faite par O&M.

    Puis dans le travail de O&M différents visuels ont étés comparés, là il en ressort que le logo en Blanc sur un fond multi-couleur est le plus apprécié dans certain contexte, comme sur les sites web ou l'application sur Iphone.

    Personnellement j'aime l'ancien logo Darkcoin, néanmoins je m'y retrouve également avec la version noir du logo de O&M.

    Merci à la CORETEAM pour avoir choisi des professionnels comme O&M , merci à O&M pour ce travail.

    Comme sur beaucoup de sujet, je constate que la CORETEAM met tout en œuvre afin de permettre à Dash d'évoluer, et là, est bien la mission que nous leur avons confiée.

    Comme vous l'avez compris mon choix est fait. Les votes auront le derniers mots.
    Si une autre solution venait à passer, je la respecterais et l'accepterais.
    Néanmoins je vous invite à faire confiance aux choix de la CORETEAM et au travail O&M.

    ################
    Google translation :

    My brother-in-dash, that this is a difficult choice to make. We who are so attached to Dash and whose logo and representation are the physical and symbolic manifestation of all this past adventure and all its future possibilities.
    How not to let the emotional take over a symbol source of so much pride and emotion.
    All of you will argue that your choice is based on reflection, but in truth everyone's arguments will only be there to support their own feelings.
    To avoid this, I conducted a small test on my entourage. For some who had already seen Dash by far, for others who did not even know what it was.
    I was surprised by the unanimity on the work produced by O & M.
    This test is on a very small scale, it confirms the research done by O & M.

    Then in the work of O & M various visuals have been compared, there it emerges that the logo in White on a multi-color background is most appreciated in certain context, as on the websites or the application on Iphone.

    Personally I like the old Darkcoin logo, but I also found myself with the black version of O & M logo.

    Thanks to CORETEAM for choosing professionals like O & M, thanks to O & M for this work.

    As on many subjects, I note that CORETEAM makes every effort to allow Dash to evolve, and here is the mission that we entrusted to them.

    As you understand, my choice is made. The votes will have the last words.
    If another solution came to pass, I would respect it and accept it.
    Nevertheless, I invite you to trust the choices of CORETEAM and O & M work.
     
    #117 JOL, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
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  28. Walter

    Walter Active Member
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    I'm astonished at how many branding and marketing experts we have in our midst all of a sudden! :rolleyes:

    On a serious note: the majority of talking heads in our community, with respect, do not not know what they are talking about (even those that think they do). As the saying goes, opinions are like assholes.. Everybody has one, and we all think everyone else's stinks.

    The MNOs should heed the advice of @Ryan Taylor @fernando and seriously consider what's in the best interests of Dash as we embark on our long, hard slog towards mainstream adoption. I echo their advice and I implore MNOs to read both the branding documents fully, and consider them objectively, before settling on the best way forwards for Dash.

    I have faith that the MNOs will collectively make the right decision.

    Walter
     
    #118 Walter, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
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  29. AndyDark

    AndyDark Well-known Member
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    agree.

    I remember we spent a day with Santi from O&M in London during the conference last year, and I was really impressed with him and O&M's interpretation of our mission and plans to develop our brand, and I know they have done huge amount of work for us since. You know when you meet different people in Dash in person you get a sense of the best people always have a certain spark where they gel with the Dash mission and the people involved, whether thats the DashForce guys, Rango from DashCentral, Dragan from ASU and a whole bunch of other people we met and I'd definitely include Santi in that group as someone who fits in and adds value in a positive way and help us on our mission.

    as a developer I have my own opinions on the logos etc but like anything else in Dash I defer to people with the expertise in their particular field,who prove themselves to make the right decisions and we all just get on with our own bits. Therefore I support Santi from O&M working with Fernando who is our head of marketing with the difficult task of executing this rebranding and also Ryan who has the most difficult job of making sure we're all working cohesively towards the same goal in a productive way (which of course we are) :).

    "I have faith that the MNOs will collectively make the right decision" as always

    A
     
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  30. DashingDude

    DashingDude Member

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    My tuppence-worth: A change of branding will wreak havoc for many of the smaller Dash projects, such as we have here in Africa. I have had my branding (based on the Dash branding) done by a professional in London, for several brands, and video branding too... which I would now have to change. This would be expensive and inconvenient for me.

    The same would apply to many other projects around the world. We'd need to re-brand DashForce One! Dash Venezuala. Dash Global. Discover Dash. everything.

    New unicode for the Dash D sign?

    And I still prefer our current logo. It has form and cohesiveness that the new ones lack. Instantly recognisable.

    The new ideas are not good enough to warrant a change.
     
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