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What the hell is wrong with this picture? i thought we were a decentralized project?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TheDashGuy, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    This is my point about off topic. You did not address the topic of the thread, the Dash Nation website. If you have a problem with something else thedashguy was doing, address it personally, or in another thread.

    I get that you are frustrated by some previous history. Now you post again a long history about problems with thedashguy....which is debatable if 2 months is a long time for 1 guy to redesign a website for in his own time for free. Supposedly we paid a few web design companies to redesign dash.org and gave them 6+ months to do the work and we still don't have anything. Web design isn't always easy or fast.

    This comment is considered an attack. https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dashnation-com-soft-launch.9181/#post-97151
    You guys are on a vendetta against guys like @tungfa that bleeds more Dash than all of your collective demagogue nonsense. Soon, Confluence will have more chapters than Encyclopdeia Britannica, and that is what is going to bring in serious infrastructural partnership/investments. Always constantly directing cheap shots at him whenever you can. The work he is doing nothing short of amazing, and if you only knew how to look you would recognise it from a mile away.

    You guys insult @AndyDark who only just got here, and as key player for Evolution, instead ping-pong'ing around him to discredit him, why not instead find a ways to make our project grow instead of inflating your massive ego's ?

    You challenge @kot all the time, and project all your Project Management and DAO philosophies and this and that, and how we're all wrong, and are arrogant and negative, insinuating we're doing thing our way because we have some oligarchic attitude ... when all we are doing in actively implementing @eduffield's vision and roadmap.

    Can you see how you associated everything I did with thedashguy?
    The statements you make are twisted. I don't have a vendetta against tungfa. Do I think he needs to act more positive and provide less disrespectful posts? yes. Andydark lashed out at me and called me a troll and some other inappropriate things because of a misunderstanding. Did I react in the same manner - no. I kept my cool. Now Andy has apologized. I have also given him several ideas to think about with Evolution. I challenge Kot and everyone I think is going down the wrong path. Everyone else should do the same. A message board is supposed be a place to discuss opposing views. This is what this community should be about.
     
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  2. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    @Solarminer stop putting your neck out for me before these cunts target you to.

    I'm done here anyways. And @yidakee is lucky ill never meet his little bitch ass in real life. Fuck this place.

    The whole goddamn project is going to get ruined due to twats like @yidakee. Be warned. Good luck to everyone here, don't forget to kiss the core teams ass if you don't wanna be made a target! TO everyone who thinks I'm a troll, go jump off a cliff. And to everyone else, its been real guys, hope to see you around the crypto space.

    Delete my goddamn forum account please. i'm sick of this place, these people, and this shit drama.

    You are getting youre way good fuckin job @yidakee. I'm literally leaving because of YOU. Grats bitch.
     
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  3. Alexy

    Alexy Well-known Member
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    Guys~ If you noticed, the topic of this thread is changed from Tao's proposal to confrontation, personal attack, or whatever it is.
    Okay, let's say you guys disagree with each other. So what? isn't the goal here to Take DASH project into the next level? isn't the way to solve the problem is by Decentralized governance?
    As to the proposal, please allow me to quote what Evan said in the video series about Dash.
    So as far as i know, Tao already submit the proposal to the network, isn't it the time to wait for the result? The decision isn't made by single person, or several people. It is made by the network, aka ALL the MNs.
    All mn holders have seen the proposal, give them a time. Please~
    IF the proposal passed in the end, cheers, the majority agree with it. IF not, continues to the project, keep contribute to the Community. Because MNs have made the decision. Again, not several people.
    I Do hope you guys can find a way to communicate with each other, no more insulting.

    Best regards
    Alexy
    From distant China
     
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  4. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    @Alexy, Yes, you are correct on the process.

    The topic is more about how some of the core people are reacting to certain posts or people. I feel like they are trying to drive out opposing views or different and creative talent. I don't know the reason, maybe not intentional. But it certainly isn't welcoming like we really should have for a public forum. I am bringing up the old history, not because I have a personal feeling about it, but because I want this place to be more welcoming.
     
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  5. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    Who are the "individuals doing this for six months now"? I think there was also a reference to 5 concern trolls. Who are the people that are the "problem"?
     
  6. Alexy

    Alexy Well-known Member
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    @Solarminer I do believe you that you want this place to be more welcoming. To me, every each of you (whoever involved) are talent, with different fascinating skills. At the mean time, you guys have the every different personalities. May argue, May turn into fight. But this is the world is like, isn't it? We cannot hope everyone we are working with is the one we like. However, in the DASH project, we have this amazing tools to deal with such cooperation. We don't need to be approved by Coreteam(excuse me, just making a point here). We are allowed to make proposal, if the majority with Us, then great. we keep doing what we promised to the Community/Network.
    After all, this is not perfect world, but we are making a system to deal with it. I wish you guys can get along in peace, shake hands or sth. If all of you can work this out, you can work more smoothly than ever. If not, who cares? doing what we should be doing, have a nice idea, write an excellent proposal, submit it to the Network, Done. AGAIN, we don't really need to win everyone's vote, we don't really need to be approved by everyone, Majority is the key here. So let's claim down. No more confrontation. How I wish this thread ends now. :D
     
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  7. camosoul

    camosoul Well-known Member

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    Don't try to push in a direction the core doesn't understand and doesn't care about. If you actually achieve something, they will actively tear it down. Ignore the vacuum DASH is failing to fill even with a feature designed specifically for said vacuum... You don't dare take it upon yourself. Any accomplishment not performed by the core is considered an affront to their control of what was meant to be a piggy bank for the chosen... The more they try to hide it, the more obvious it gets that they're trying to hide it. The reason it seems like dredging up history, is because its rooted in running up against the same petty, greedy attitude problem over and over. No matter how many times it happens...

    Glad to see a few people are just barely starting to take vendor integration sort-of seriously. But in that thread we still see the silly of many MN operators placing ridiculous project-killing demands on the would-be customer, not even understanding what they demand or why its bad to expect the customer to give away everything... Such extreme stupid scares the customer.

    They insist on doing it their way, even if its blatantly autistic. But I came to realize its mostly because they only know one way. If you're smart enough and experienced enough to know better, their fragile little snowflake SJW egos feel threatened and it becomes a nerd ego catfight.

    I'm giving them a free sever. I'm not using it. Why not? Its my way of helping them fail upwards without investing my time, which is far more valuable than a server.

    Think of it like raising a teenager. They think they know everything. Won't listen.

    Notice how many members of the core team are parents... Its a matter of maturity and perspective, which they lack, but need in order to even see the argument. They just plain don't grasp reality, and they're not going to. They behavior seems malicious, but it comes from simply having no clue and feeling threatened. Typical fragile SJW behavior. Its a hallmark of the times, everybody is doing it!

    Being flawed doesn't make them useless. I'm the expert on that one... ;-)

    See? Perspective! Stop taking yourselves so damned seriously that you can't handle criticism.
     
    #67 camosoul, Jun 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  8. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    About the rest of the quote, again, I plead to your capacity to understand that despite that thread being opened and having a title, the basic premise was discussed on another couple threads. Simply opening a new thread and starting all over again ... it's tiring. And it seems to be the start of a recurring phenomena.

    But please let us just read the previous posts, to the post you say I'm off topic

    So who is effectively attacking who here? Just the word choice alone speaks volumes. And again in this thread, including physical threats.

    Now, I did quote your post, but I've made it clear that I wasn't answering to you directly. I made that very clear. Before my post you wrote

    And THAT is why I went on about TDG while quoting you.

    So please lets remain objective and not try to twist things around.

    Actually doing work? Sure! Never ever did I criticise the work being done on side projects. I'm just defending the attacks and critiques to the Core team, who are actively working on the actual project roadmap.

    I understand that your fond of his work, but it's not directly related to the official roadmap. This was essentially you sticking up for TDG, so I responded to your defense. WE DID ENCOURAGE HIM, after months of badgering, we invited him to participate in a Core project. He decided his efforts were more important elsewhere. That is fine! Just not to criticise us because of it.

    So was it off topic? Absolutely not. It was completely ON topic given the direction the discussion headed.
    It was as much off-topic as your defense of him.

    .
     
    #68 yidakee, Jun 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  9. demo

    demo Active Member

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    Yup. This is exactly the case. The more they try to hide, the more obvious it gets.

    And still, no answer has been given to the questions about the remainder amount of the budget.
     
    #69 demo, Jun 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
  10. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    The core needs to work to a higher standard. If you can't respond to criticism in a calm manner, then don't post. Complaining about not starting an argument first is irrelevant. Just act respectful and suck it up. If you call a help desk and raise your voice and start complaining...what happens. The agent calmly responds in a professional way. We should be treating this forum in a similar tone.

    Be the better Dash National. (@TaoOfSatoshi Your welcome!)
     
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  11. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    What we really need is a meetup and party: a whole DASH weekend in a pleasant place somewhere. The opportunity to meet and talk eye to eye would be a priceless opportunity to ease all this tension... written communication can sometimes lead to unintended reactions due to different interpretations or misinterpretations.

    We are a family here: the DASH family grows stronger with the union of each of us members. I propose we stop a moment, take a small breath, and rethink everything into a global, long-term perspective :)
     
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  12. camosoul

    camosoul Well-known Member

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    Nuh-uh! HE startred it! Nya nya!

    There's way too much demand on go along to get along... Conflict is how shit gets done, not dancing on eggshells worrying about whose going to get offended next. Think of it like sparring. There might be some blood, a black eye, and maybe a few broken bones. But we're still on the same team.... If division rises out of every tiny little disagreement... Fuck, it's so childish. Real grown ups just don't want to deal with that crap.

    If you can't take a punch and still be friends, you have no right to be in any position of management.
     
    #72 camosoul, Jun 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
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  13. camosoul

    camosoul Well-known Member

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    I kinda like the idea of a get together that isn't a conference. Just to do it, no particular reason... But, I probably wouldn't go. :p Crypto nerds tend to favor venues that are hostile to all but the fringe left.

    I'll set up a dunking booth. 1 DASH per throw... Soak Camosoul! The guy you love to hate!
     
    #73 camosoul, Jun 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
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  14. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    Come on Camo....let us on your big boat.

    Lets call it the Dash 100. And 100 stands for yep...$100 Dash.
     
  15. camosoul

    camosoul Well-known Member

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    Big? There's no room on my boat for anyone but me!

    If DASH is ever $100, I will print out this message and eat my words.
     
  16. demo

    demo Active Member

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    Better would be to say:
    "..who are actively working on their actual project roadmap."

    Thats the problem. It is their own roadmap. Not masternode owners roadmap, or miners roadmap, or my roadmap. Who decided about this roadmap? Who voted for it?

    The pork barrel bank is CoreTeam's personal roadmap, a roadmap they decided to follow whitout asking the others. They are working on their own personal_benefit roadmap, while at the same time they are trying to hide that they are working on it. But the more they try to hide, the more obvious it gets.

    And where this personal_benefit roadmap leads? Ιf CoreTeam works on their own personal_benefit roadmap, and MNs work on their own personal_benefit roadmap, and I work on my own personal_benefit roadmap, then there is no unity. The personal benefit will tear dashNation apart.

    The personal benefit should be reduced in favor of the common benefit. And it can be reduced only if we vote for it, and an average benefit is defined. And if you want to caclulate the average, voting with numbers is required.
     
    #76 demo, Jun 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
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  17. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    Can I just say - off topic and back onto your favourite :p.... that voting by numbers exists already, kind of.... if you have 300 MNs you don't have to use all 300 to vote. Duffield does exactly this; only deploying all votes on things he considers important. So, anyway, I guess the voting by numbers things is totally doable, but like you say, we are held to the core team's wishes, or the usual BS about forking.
     
  18. halso

    halso Active Member
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    @demo you are definitely off the Dash 100 invite list. You'll kill the buzz.
     
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  19. Bridgewater

    Bridgewater Well-known Member
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    Decentralization is not socialism.

    The network is ultimately controlled by people with money, not people with words.

    What actually happened in the OP that is worth so much fuss? Something was put to a vote by the people who control dash (masternode owners), and what was the result of that vote? Oh you mean it's not done yet? What's the problem then? The whole point is that we have a system that requires no whining. If the proposal fails, then more convincing (not whining) is necessary. I'm with @Alexy on this one.

    The people who control Dash (those who have actually put their hard-earned savings into it) are the "team" we are ALL on. Want to control Dash more, put more money in. It's that simple. Don't have money? Contribute by WORKING, not by trying to convince the people with money to do something else with it. Peddle your socialism elsewhere to suckers actually willing to subsidize your existence, please.

    There are some people here with ZERO skin in the game, who bring lots of words and ideas (not all bad!) and provocative (but unsubstantiated) "we, the community" arguments to the table, along with cheap labor and volunteer work. They mostly don't believe in capitalism, which is why they are not interested in working to save money and build wealth; they are just excited about working with people and helping OTHER people make money (whether they know it or not). While their work is appreciated, they should not act so surprised when their bosses don't always listen. If they did, they would be poor, too.

    The budget is not a charity organization. The MNO are people who appreciate hard work and results, and have a pretty good idea of what works and doesn't work in the real world to make money and increase value. They would not have enough money to own and operate MNs, otherwise. More respect should be paid to this point, in particular.

    Anyone feeling that MNO are selfish, ignorant, or uncaring are likely themselves ignorant. The loudest, most "textually influential" people only exist in the Dash community because of the very MNO they continually berate, who have invested real wealth. Ever notice how the MNO don't whine much? That's because they talk with money, not words. If they were upset with the direction their investment was going, they would dump. When happy, they buy more.

    And with Dash they can actually vote with their money to ensure that the direction continues to be good (which does NOT mean disproportionately good for themselves compared to other users). The smart people control the coin's direction, and that's why this coin will succeed in the long run. Smart people are able to read emotionally-charged lamentations like demo's above, identify any value in it, and filter out the noise. Nevertheless, he and others will keep pounding away at the capitalists, hoping to eventually reach any untapped desires (admirable, but not sustainable) to put "humanity" before themselves.
     
    #79 Bridgewater, Jun 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
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  20. camosoul

    camosoul Well-known Member

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    Unfortunately, this part is not actually true. This is how it's meant to work, in theory. But MNs are still too cheap, and most owned by ponzi heads who just got lucky. You can buy MNs with welfare checks, and plenty of them do...

    The problem of the people who got in cheap, who only vote as a form of "revenge" against the businesses and evil rich people that they believe have wronged them and owe them something, is not going to go away untul DASH becomes so absurdly expensive that they become that supposedly "evil" rich person, and are forced to see the bullshit of their own perspective.

    The overwhelming majority of MNOs are clueless to their responsibilities, and do not understand their role, or how to fulfill it.

    Look at the vendor integration proposal's thread.... We still have clowns demanding that NDAs and Privacy Agreements be breached in the name of "Open Source the customers' everything or we vote no!"

    They're either insane, or stupid. Or both... And this is what happens when you give a welfare queen the power of a seat on the board of directors...

    The majority of MNOs are the same clowns that demand a $15/hr minimum wage for flipping burgers. They're uneducated activist losers that wish to exact revenge on the enemy; people who are not losers. They're only in it to hurt the very people DASH needs to court! They don't even comprehend the idea that "the user experience" needs to include vendors, not just welfare consumers; as is the prevailing attitude of all crypto. They want to fuck over business owners, and anyone with an entrepreneurial mindset.

    All that really happened, is that a bunch of lazy, clueless brats have been given what they view as a monetary weapon against the very people they should be trying to help. Finally! They get to hurt the people they hate! This is how they view it, and they don't care how horribly counterproductive it is. SJWs in the fiscal marketplace. What could go wrong?

    MNs are still waayyy too cheap to fulfill this particular aspect of their function. I strongly doubt that 1000 DASH will ever be hard enough to obtain that it keeps the fools out.
     
    #80 camosoul, Jun 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
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  21. camosoul

    camosoul Well-known Member

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    "i thought we were a decentralized project?"

    Lets get back to this point.

    How can it be decentralized when nobody else does anything?

    On one hand, you can blame the core for "centralizing."

    But if they're the only ones doing anything, well, uh, it's only "centralized" by proxy of the fact that everyone else is sitting on their ass.

    It's exactly the same as 3rd Wave Feminazis complaining that women aren't "represented" in STEM fields.... Well, duh, motherfuckers! Maybe you had gotten a degree that was useful in a STEM field, instead of Gender Studies, you would be the woman representing in a STEM field....

    If you want the project to be decentralized, fuckin' do something! I tried to plant DASH seeds with the vending machine, and we see how many community members get off their fat asses to find a retailer willing to host even one such machine...

    On this particular point, the complainers have only themselves to blame.

    @TheDashGuy; I even offered to drive the machine all the way over his place, if he'd find a retailer to host it. Did he find one? Did any of my detractors, either?

    Not trying to make a personal thing of calling you out, but the truth can't be ignored in that light! Get off the couch or quit bitchin'!

    If even one of these forum fanboys would get off the couch and talk to some retailers...
     
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  22. demo

    demo Active Member

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    Your talk has emotionally charged lamentations.

    My talk has no emotion anymore, my talk has only NUMBERS.
     
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  23. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    Just to prove a point:

    http://www.dashnation.com/
    http://dashndrink.com/
    http://whatisdash.org/
    http://www.thedashguy.com/
    http://thedailydecrypt.com/
    http://code.dashndrink.com/
    http://dashngo.com/

    # of Budget Proposals to refund me: 0
    # of times I complained about doing free work: 0
    # of assholes to call me a troll: 20+

    Totally a troll.

    You'd only be so lucky to have more people like myself in this community, who actually give a shit, but you guys actively and collecting run my type off with this bureaucratic political bullshit that gets pulled around here. I no longer feel the need to "actively" help out anymore nor be a forum dweller in this cesspool. You guys may see me on slack from time to time because I enjoy chatting with those nice folks there, and I promised to help Tao build a movement, and I still plan to do it. Not for anyone but my goddamn future kids and I would hope to god that some idiot doesn't screw the whole damn thing up out of greed and/or ignorance in the process.

    Dash was and is currently pitched as "digital cash" don't forget that. If you wanna be paypal, spinoff the dashpay name and create paypal, but don't run digital cash into the ground doing so please. Don't lose your hedgehog, every business that starts "trying to do to much" as seen with evolution never arrives, luckily we still have time to regain our brains and actually deliver what Satoshi envisioned if we get our shit straight, which was a true digital currency that is fungible, secure, decentralized , instant and run by the 99%. Don't forget this shit, please.

    [​IMG]

    Who ever is in charge of Biz Dev around here needs to get their shit in line. Before they take Dash down with there outdated ideas of becoming paypal. Go be digital goddamn cash and build the new paypal as a layer to digital cash, DO NOT turn Dash into some paypal clone, PLEASE. Paypal is shit & Cash is King, i did make those sayings up they are repeated on the daily.

    Call me a troll, call me a quitter, I don't care. I'm not here to make any friends, nor risk my morales and values to make a quick buck. I'm here to do my part to ensure that digital cash is what we're marketing, because its our endgame, not some paypal get rich quick scheme. I suggest some of you think more like me.

    This will be my last forum post so I thought i'd make it count, with minimal swearing. It's time to deactivate TDG due to the army of douchebags at my feet.

    Peace out guys. If you're ever in Seattle, let me know i'll show you around and buy you a joint ;]\\

    edit: and go bookmark www.DashNation.com, (for @tao, not for me its his project now, i'm just the web monkey, hate me all you want.) there will be MANY updates in the coming weeks/months, most of which aimed at creating a little more decentralization in this mofo.


    Centralization is a disease. Don't forget it.
     
    #83 TheDashGuy, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
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  24. Raptor73

    Raptor73 Active Member

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    TDGexit? You should be smarter than the english folks. You know that noboby told you to leave us,
    except your ego? Now come down and learn your lessons. There's enough work for everyone in this project.
     
  25. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    wow, now there's an analogy! The reason there was a Daxit was because bitcoin refused to change! Dash is better without them.. and so too is Britain without a protectionist eu!
     
    #85 GrandMasterDash, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  26. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    Can't blame someone for deciding not to do volunteer work in a non-fulfilling environment for them. The lesson to be learned is to understand why this decision was made and how it could have been prevented, if anyone is even interested in learning it.
     
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  27. toknormal

    toknormal Active Member

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    Maybe Amanda B Johnson can do an episode for those of us with no clue what this spat is all about. Does it concern the monetary properties of Dash ? ;)
     
    #87 toknormal, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
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  28. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    Your solution to decentralization is right here. Now go do something. Pledge a gig, do a gig, or suggest a gig.
    www.dashnation.com/gigs
     
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  29. cmerriamleith

    cmerriamleith New Member

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    If you're interested in my opinion as an outsider looking in. I will say that this thread does raise some serious concerns about the investment potential of this project. The public display of such hostility does not instill much confidence in the project's success from an investment perspective. One question that this thread has raised is what is the current ownership of existing Masternodes. Is there a public list of who the owners are and how many nodes are owned be each person.

    Thanks
    cmerriamleith
     
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  30. demo

    demo Active Member

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    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

    Revealing who the masternode owners are is a very bad choice. Dash is supposed to be an anonymous coin. But how many nodes are owned by each person, this is a usefull information that should be availabe somehow.

    How can we reveal the number of MNs a person owns, without revealing his name? I am thinking of it.

    Maybe by using a CAPTCHA verification when a masternode votes for the budget. The statistics of the captcha and of the time the vote is casted, will reveal that a single person is hiding behind specific masternodes, without of course revealing his name.
     
    #90 demo, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
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