Spies in Core Team, Censorship etc

GrandMasterDash

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It seems to me the contention found in this thread is one that has been familiar to governance over the millennia...that of "checks and balances".

While that subject is very deep, I just don't see the motivation for Dash Core to "turn off masternode payments" in order to sabotage the entire ecosystem or to abscond, even lacking checks and balances.

If they do this in order to incentivize the 12.1/Sentinel rollout, then so be it. Dash Core needs some understanding from an executive standpoint...I think.

Maybe I'm naive, but my gut tells me the team that has been assembled has their heart and soul in this. They're calling these shots. So be it.
I agree it's entirely possible that Core's heart might be in the right place.. although saying that, I also believe dash has been heavily infiltrated and compromised by spies, kot being one of them e.g. his involvement with Coinfirm. But it's not just that, there have been many strategic decisions and "partners" created with almost no involvement of the MNs. It was ok for Evan to execute his PR stunt regarding block-size, but when it really counts there's been nothing. All these proposals are about grants, none of them about strategic decision (except my own privacy-first proposal).

What I'm saying is, although it's important for Core to have their hearts in the right places, those checks and balances are actually far more important because they stop corruption seeping in.
 

tungfa

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....I also believe dash has been heavily infiltrated and compromised by spies, kot being one of .....
come on now - u serious ?
i am on that team and have not met any "spies" yet :rolleyes:
i believe we have to keep our pants on about our "importance" (or not) in the world ;)
 

GrandMasterDash

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come on now - u serious ?
i am on that team and have not met any "spies" yet :rolleyes:
i believe we have to keep our pants on about our "importance" (or not) in the world ;)
What do you call someone who's been installed to subvert a project? - you can call it any name you like but at the end of the day they're a spy.

Why is it so far fetched? You think spies look like James Bond? You think their cover would be easily blown? If you think this then you really are naive.

Consider it, just for a moment, if a government installed people to subvert a cryptocurrency, how do we screen for that? It's very difficult, right? Is it likely to happen? - given the current war on cash / terrorism and so on, the obvious answer is yes indeed, it's entirely plausible.

Perhaps you've already forgotten the "accidental bugs" that have previously worked their way into Sendmail, SSL and other critical components of the Internet. Why would you think that such things are completely benign?
 

tungfa

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What do you call someone who's been installed to subvert a project? - you can call it any name you like but at the end of the day they're a spy.

Why is it so far fetched? You think spies look like James Bond? You think their cover would be easily blown? If you think this then you really are naive.

Consider it, just for a moment, if a government installed people to subvert a cryptocurrency, how do we screen for that? It's very difficult, right? Is it likely to happen? - given the current war on cash / terrorism and so on, the obvious answer is yes indeed, it's entirely plausible.

Perhaps you've already forgotten the "accidental bugs" that have previously worked their way into Sendmail, SSL and other critical components of the Internet. Why would you think that such things are completely benign?
Conspiracy Theory Version 352 :rolleyes:
 

tungfa

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You don't have to prove it but I would at least expect you tell us why it is not plausible.
because we are a tiny project in the great schemes of things
80-100 Mill MartketCap - come on - great definitely - compared to BTC or US$ = fly on the wall

"kot being one of them e.g. his involvement with Coinfirm"
confirm is mining metadata with or without us (said many times before) and so are all other companies from that corner of the market - they mine data to make money - this has nothing to do with us or kot giving them access to anything - they mine that straight from blockchain - and ? so let them - keep mixing and they can mine whatever they want
kot or any other "spy" can not help them doing a 'better' job - the code is the code and mixing is mixing
done

might they have some sleeper cell sitting around somewhere ?
maybe / doubt it - and so does any other sh..tcoin and paid troll and whatnot - 1 'enemy' more or less does not matter to me

the inner core team still is 90% members from 3 years ago - i double doubt that back then some government spy put all the work in to get involved 'core team' level with some new crypto startup which eventually might develop into something (or not)
and the other couple newer members are well trusted and background checked (i know that does not mean anything)

.....
bottom line you can spin these kind of theories or conspiracy theories as far as u want (each way) and there is no end to the madness or rabbithole
i for sure can say that i have been here a long time , have nothing to hide, trust the team 100% and if something 'stinks' or not makes sense i am one of the 1st to scream and probably the loudest - a good team trusts each other and parallel checks each other on a constant bases - exactly what we are doing here !
this is really all i have to say to this ;)
 

GrandMasterDash

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because we are a tiny project in the great schemes of things
80-100 Mill MartketCap - come on - great definitely - compared to BTC or US$ = fly on the wall

"kot being one of them e.g. his involvement with Coinfirm"
confirm is mining metadata with or without us (said many times before) and so are all other companies from that corner of the market - they mine data to make money - this has nothing to do with us or kot giving them access to anything - they mine that straight from blockchain - and ? so let them - keep mixing and they can mine whatever they want
kot or any other "spy" can not help them doing a 'better' job - the code is the code and mixing is mixing
done

might they have some sleeper cell sitting around somewhere ?
maybe / doubt it - and so does any other sh..tcoin and paid troll and whatnot - 1 'enemy' more or less does not matter to me

the inner core team still is 90% members from 3 years ago - i double doubt that back then some government spy put all the work in to get involved 'core team' level with some new crypto startup which eventually might develop into something (or not)
and the other couple newer members are well trusted and background checked (i know that does not mean anything)

.....
bottom line you can spin these kind of theories or conspiracy theories as far as u want (each way) and there is no end to the madness or rabbithole
i for sure can say that i have been here a long time , have nothing to hide, trust the team 100% and if something 'stinks' or not makes sense i am one of the 1st to scream and probably the loudest - a good team trusts each other and parallel checks each other on a constant bases - exactly what we are doing here !
this is really all i have to say to this ;)
In case you haven't noticed, dash is #7 by marketcap and everyone here is very excited / enthusiastic about it. You want me to believe you are not so hopeful for this project? ... that if you can be hopeful of such big success, why not a government?
 

tungfa

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In case you haven't noticed, dash is #7 by marketcap and everyone here is very excited / enthusiastic about it. You want me to believe you are not so hopeful for this project? ... that if you can be hopeful of such big success, why not a government?
lol - sure i am hopeful - otherwise why would i still be here every day cranking away

'why not the government' .... sure if u wanna believe so :rolleyes: .... so what now ?
shut it all down , there might be a 'spy' in our mids somewhere ?
come on .... enough movie talk for 1 morning ;)
 
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GrandMasterDash

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lol - sure i am hopeful - otherwise why would i still be here every day cranking away

'why not the government' .... sure if u wanna believe so :rolleyes: .... so what now ?
shut it all down , there might be a 'spy' in our mids somewhere ?
come on .... enough movie talk for 1 morning ;)
Not at all, simply what I've said at the beginning of this thread.. that governance with the checks and balances is more important than some fluffy statement that Core's heart is in the right place. Without the checks and balances dash is open to corruption, with or without the government's help.
 

bertlebbert

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... I also believe dash has been heavily infiltrated and compromised by spies, kot being one of them e.g. his involvement with Coinfirm.
Thank you, I was wondering about that. That ponytail? And I detect an eastern European accent - he might even be KGB... :cool:
 

demo

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Ignore @demo and his unfriendly remarks.. He's done the same to me in the past, he doesn't seem to realize that simple requests for information aren't a drain on the community and should be treated in a warm and welcoming way. There is a big difference between asking for a brief overview/synopsis on a topic/issue as opposed to being spoonfed on the matter... He seems to think that investors should be able to recite the source code in latin during their sleep if they're serious about their masternode investment..! :rolleyes:

Walter

If someone has been paid 44 dash for 3 hours, and you ask him a question and he spends 15 minutes to answer to you, how much should you pay him?
I ll tell you, it is 3.6 dash per 15 minutes. Or 0.24 dash per minute.

There are three big categories of citizents living into the Timocratic city of Dash:
The first category are the employees (like amanda, tungfa, mococooo, Kot , babygiraffe, Udgin e.t.c.) who are paid with a salary and/or with bonuses for whatever they are doing into the city.
The second category are the advertisers, those who post Dash related messages to reddit, to facebook or to whatever internet site, and the marketeers are paying them some dash tips per message.
And then there is the third category, the naive ones, who offer their work for free.

I spend 3 minutes to answer to your question, and I gave you a very insightful answer that may result for you to change your naive character.
So you owe me 0.75 dash.
 
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crowning

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The first category are the employees (like amanda, tungfa, mococooo, Kot , babygiraffe, Udgin e.t.c.) who are paid with a salary and/or with bonuses for whatever they are doing into the city
According to your definition I'm one of the paid employees. From the budget for the core team I got 78 DASH (as most others do) per month last year.

In my other (professional) life for 78 DASH you could hire me for slightly more than HALF a day.

As I work less on Dash now it'll be reduced to 20 DASH per month or so.

So, from a salary point of view I'm working for free here.
 
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qwizzie

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I guess this all was bound to happen, the more successfull Dash becomes the more likely certain trolls that we know from other forums will move to this forum as well
and try to disrupt it. Personally i think its not very smart to do it in the official announcement part of this forum but they most likely feel pressured to
disrupt it in any way possible.

If we were to hold a molehunt, we would most likely end up hunting some Monero trolls.
 
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GrandMasterDash

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I guess this all was bound to happen, the more successfull Dash becomes the more likely certain trolls that we know from other forums will move to this forum as well
and try to disrupt it. Personally i think its not very smart to do it in the official announcement part of this forum but they most likely feel pressured to
disrupt it in any way possible.

If we were to hold a molehunt, we would most likely end up hunting some Monero trolls.
Yeah, and I guess it was bound to happen that Evan could switch off payments without any of you challenging it. And you have the cheek to mark my posts as trolling for doing so. But I aint bothered, one day it will come back to bite ya and I'll be lmfao.
 

demo

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Evan could switch off payments without any of you challenging it. .
And not only switch off the payments. Here follows the list of what Evan and the core team can change (or switch off) any time at all the 4271 running masternodes, without asking anyone about it:

#define SPORK_2_INSTANTX_DEFAULT 978307200 //2001-1-1
#define SPORK_3_INSTANTX_BLOCK_FILTERING_DEFAULT 1424217600 //2015-2-18
#define SPORK_5_MAX_VALUE_DEFAULT 1000 //1000 DASH (<---this is the masternodes collateral)
#define SPORK_7_MASTERNODE_SCANNING_DEFAULT 978307200 //2001-1-1
#define SPORK_8_MASTERNODE_PAYMENT_ENFORCEMENT_DEFAULT 4070908800 //OFF
#define SPORK_9_MASTERNODE_BUDGET_ENFORCEMENT_DEFAULT 4070908800 //OFF
#define SPORK_10_MASTERNODE_PAY_UPDATED_NODES_DEFAULT 4070908800 //OFF
#define SPORK_11_RESET_BUDGET_DEFAULT 0
#define SPORK_12_RECONSIDER_BLOCKS_DEFAULT 0
#define SPORK_13_ENABLE_SUPERBLOCKS_DEFAULT 4070908800 //OFF

This is of course only what I have read into the opensource code (and I have not read all the code yet). Additionaly, there are also the compiled binaries where no independant tester has ever checked them whether more hidden sporks exist there or not. I wonder why the masternodes owners, while they keep voting and paying for marketeers for feasts and for conferences, why they have not yet asked an independant tester to check the masternode binaries for hidden sporks or even worst for password stealer trojans.

The trust the masternode owners put in the core team, seems suspicious to me. Trust , but verify should be the rational thing to happen.
 
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qwizzie

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looks like our little molehunt is over before it even started ...:(
 
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wackyD

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What do you call someone who's been installed to subvert a project? - you can call it any name you like but at the end of the day they're a spy.

Why is it so far fetched? You think spies look like James Bond? You think their cover would be easily blown? If you think this then you really are naive.

Consider it, just for a moment, if a government installed people to subvert a cryptocurrency, how do we screen for that? It's very difficult, right? Is it likely to happen? - given the current war on cash / terrorism and so on, the obvious answer is yes indeed, it's entirely plausible.

Perhaps you've already forgotten the "accidental bugs" that have previously worked their way into Sendmail, SSL and other critical components of the Internet. Why would you think that such things are completely benign?
Have you been taking your pills lately? I mean ALL of them - don't skip on medication
 

demo

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Have you been taking your pills lately? I mean ALL of them - don't skip on medication
I dont know whether @GrandMasterDash has been taking his pills lately.

But you have certainly took all your pills. The fourteen pills, the expired ones, the pink ones, those marked with a cross encircled with horns. Keep taking them with a spork, otherwise you may become a Dash infidel.

For your pleasure, here you are some more pills:


 
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GrandMasterDash

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Watch out, they'll soon disable comments for this forum as well... that should set off some alarm bells.

And they'll mark posts as "trolling" in the hope that critical comments are not easily seen.
 
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fernando

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Watch out, they'll soon disable comments for this forum as well... that should set off some alarm bells
That other section has no replies because the idea is that someone who doesn't want to spend a lot time researching for information will be able to go there and check everything fast without diving into discussions. One thread per project with just updates by whoever is responsible for that project. Replies won't be disabled in any other part of the forum.
 

demo

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That other section has no replies because the idea is that someone who doesn't want to spend a lot time researching for information will be able to go there and check everything fast without diving into discussions. One thread per project with just updates by whoever is responsible for that project..
The latest news of a project can appear by editing the first message of the thread.
Disabling the comments is a really bad practice, and such a tactic will result the end of dash.
Nobody respects the censors, and the community will disappear.
 

demo

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And who is the first person who dared to post something in this forum while denying the comments below?

@Minotaur the lamassu project manager did it, here. And then @babygiraffe (the core team employee who judges whether the money of the budget should be paid or not) follows the same tactic, and he keeps posting into the same place where the alternative opinions cannot be heard.
 
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fernando

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The latest news of a project can appear by editing the first message of the thread.
Disabling the comments is a really bad practice, and such a tactic will result the end of dash.
Nobody respects the censors, and the community will disappear.
I don't like to disable replies, but in this case it is done with a reason. I don't like your idea either because editing posts can make replies unintelligible.
 
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demo

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I don't like to disable replies, but in this case it is done with a reason. I don't like your idea either because editing posts can make replies unintelligible.
There is no reason to disable replies. No reason at all. It is tottaly irrational. Everyone who refuses to hear or to respect the alternative opinions, he comes to a bad end.

If you want intelligible replies, you can use a forum that supports a 100% threaded discussion (like reddit) instead of a flat discussion like this one. In this case, below the project announcement there is not a flat discussion, but more than one threaded-replies. And this makes the discussion intelligible whatever edits may be done in the first post. Additionaly, in some well designed forums all the messages (including the first one) may support wiki funcionalities and edit history, so everything that is edited can be transparent.
 
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Walter

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There is no reason to disable replies. No reason at all. It is tottaly irrational. Everyone who refuses to hear or to respect the alternative opinions, he comes to a bad end.

If you want intelligible replies, you can use a forum that supports a 100% threaded discussion (like reddit) instead of a flat discussion like this one. In this case, below the project announcement there is not a flat discussion, but more than one threaded-replies. And this makes the discussion intelligible whatever edits may be done in the first post. Additionaly, in some well designed forums all the messages (including the first one) may support wiki funcionalities and edit history, so everything that is edited can be transparent.
Congrats Dude!! you just volunteered yourself to develop the new Dash.org forum... All you have to do is submit an 'intelligible proposal' to the Dash community and I'm sure the Masternode Operators will vote it through... All it'll cost is 5 Dash... Can I count you in??!

Intelligibly,

Walter
 

demo

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Congrats Dude!! you just volunteered yourself to develop the new Dash.org forum... All you have to do is submit an 'intelligible proposal' to the Dash community and I'm sure the Masternode Operators will vote it through... All it'll cost is 5 Dash... Can I count you in??!

Intelligibly,

Walter

No .

As long as I am OFFERING to the community and I am not spending for nothing the community's money like some others are doing (lamassu, employees, marketeers, advertisers. laywers e.t.c), I expect my proposals to be able to enter into the budget system for FREE.

So, No again.

I am not giving you a penny, not even 5 dash. It is already TOO MUCH that I am talking to you and trying to enlighten you and make you clever.
 
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