Contacted by FBI

demo

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Dash Core Group, Inc. has no knowledge of the identity of masternode owners. The rest of your arguments build on this false premise, and are therefore also invalid.
Of course you have. Some people here in this forum have masternode badges. And you may give to the agents the full list of their IP, when they login in the forum.
 

strophy

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OK, the argument is valid but extremely weak. Imagine you are the FBI trying to get the fullest possible list of real name identities of all masternode owners. These are your options:
  1. Automatically dump the full list of IPs directly from the blockchain (dash-cli masternode list full) and subpoena the VPS hosting providers, which research has shown is centralised around <10 major hosts
  2. Get on Reddit/Slack/Discord/Dash Forum and manually collect a partial list of usernames (NOT identities) who have voluntarily identified themselves as MNOs, then subpoena Reddit/Slack/Discord/Dash Core Group, Inc. to get a partial list of IPs and then subpoena hundreds of ISPs
  3. Exploit a backdoor in XenForo (the Dash Forum software) and get the same partial list of IPs and subpoena hundreds of ISPs
You'd have to be stupid to attempt anything other than option 1. Putting in expensive hours from highly paid legal professionals to implement a warrant canary to safeguard freely available information like this is massive waste of resources, and I hope to see you arguing strongly against it in the future
 

Antti Kaikkonen

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Automatically dump the full list of IPs directly from the blockchain
I'm pretty sure that IP addresses and other masternode related information is not stored in the blockchain.

Some Dash transactions are not on the blockchain (InstantSend and PrivateSend) so Masternodes may be subpoena'd for that information..
Both PrivateSend and InstantSend transactions are stored in the blockchain. However the InstantSend lock information is not stored in the blockchain (it looks like a regular tx in the blockchain). And with mixing transactions only the masternode has the ability to map the inputs to the outputs. Did you mean those things?
 
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strophy

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Thanks for the correction - I guess it would be more accurate to say they are stored in governance objects?
 

Antti Kaikkonen

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Thanks for the correction - I guess it would be more accurate to say they are stored in governance objects?
I think so but I'm not entirely sure how they are stored. One big difference to blockchain storage is that historical data is not available unless you store it in your own database.
 

demo

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I think so but I'm not entirely sure how they are stored. One big difference to blockchain storage is that historical data is not available unless you store it in your own database.
They have the sentinel database which is an sql database. The historical data is kept there, upon vote among the masternodes. Which means that if the masternodes vote to keep historical data , it will be kept. But the default vote is to delete the history in the sentinel database, for performance reasons also.

There are also some external databases maintained by non core members, where the history is kept.
 
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solarguy

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Please cite these "legal opinions."

It seem like you and your unspecified "legal opinions" don't understand how warrant canaries work; they expire automatically and a court cannot compel US citizens to speak falsely in the form of forcing anyone to prevent automatic warrant canary expiration."


I am keenly aware of how warrant canaries work, and wish they did.

In real life, not nearly so clear. Here's a quote:

On the face of it, warrant canaries sound like a good idea. Many are not convinced, however, arguing that warrant canaries are little more that puff and smoke advertising with little to no real substance.

1. First Amendment protection for the use of warrant canaries is purely conjectural – it has never been tested in a court of law. It is very possible that a US court would rule that failure to update a warrant canary constitutes contempt of the legal requirement placed on an individual.

This is even more true outside the US, where people do not enjoy the explicit Constitutional rights afforded to US citizens. Australia is the first country to explicitly outlaw the use of warrant canaries, and other countries (such as the UK) are likely to follow soon.


and here's the source:

https://www.bestvpn.com/warrant-canaries-useful/

And they have sourced/linked to a number of very current legal actions, like in the UK and Australia, where warrant canaries are explicitly outlawed.
 

solarguy

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@solarguy,

Still waiting for you to cite the "legal opinions" you alluded to earlier. Please note that a blog post from a VPN doesn't count as a legal opinion. You'll have to do better to justify taking the position that just happens to coincide with rationalizing Dash Core's mysterious antipathy to using warrant canaries.

From your link:



Nobody should really care what a single US court would "possibly" rule. All that matters is what higher courts rule, and whether those ruling withstand 2nd Amendment remedies as a result of compelling positive affirmation of false speech (IE involuntary servitude).

There is absolutely no precedent for a US citizen being compelled to affirm false speech. Your pure conjecture ignores the critical distinction between being prohibited from the positive action of disclosing an NSA nastygram and the purely negative action of not preventing a canary from automatically expiring.

The US Constitution's 13th Amendment prohibits involuntary servitude, so a court forcing a US citizen to speak falsely against their own free will and conscientious objection on the behalf of the Deep State's proclivity for secrecy would be a bridge too far. That would be a clear sign it's time to start shooting the bastards, a signal even the most perfidious of our cowardly, risk-averse Court Jews are loath to emit.

As for citizens of the UK (including Australia), those poor souls are the chattel property (IE slaves) of The Crown & The Throne, powers presently embodied by The Queen and The City. They have no agency, and are thus irrelevant until such time as they reclaim their (sadly neutralized) heritage of Common Law.

Not everybody lives in the US. And warrant canaries ARE illegal in Australia, and borderline in the UK. Thus, my claim IS demonstrated. Although it would be convenient for your argument to just ignore Australia and the UK, you don't really have that option to just ignore the bits you don't like. Their legal validity in the U.S. has never been demonstrated, and again, I hope they will hold up in court and magically become valid around the world. The U.S. constitution is being trampled in a number of ways. Just because I hate that with a passion doesn't make it untrue.
 

thephez

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Thanks for the correction - I guess it would be more accurate to say they are stored in governance objects?
No, I would not say that either. A node can issue a P2P message requesting data about all masternodes and would receive a current list in response. I *think* it is just stored in memory. There is a limit to how frequently a node can request the whole list to limit abuse.
 

camosoul

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All MasterNode IPs are visible in the MasterNode list.

Or, you can just go to dashninja.pl

All MasterNodes are publicly exposed. Always have been. Not sure why this is confusing or hard to understand. It has never been any other way.

...which is why I am not an MNO. Too much liability, zero protection from witch-hunting government dead-set on ending crypto by any available method. Even if you're not in it for the money, because it's all about money in the mind of corrupt government, MNs are targeted. If you run a MasterNode, you're going to prison. Period.

While the US government loves it's war on it's own citizens, it is not limited by such petty things as borders and laws... Even if you've never been here, never been a citizen... That won't stop them. The US government is a global threat against all that is good and decent. No one is safe from these evil psychopaths. I'm still on the path to renouncing my citizenship even though it probably won't make any difference... They never stop. The sinking ship needs more stolen cash!
 
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camosoul

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they collect everything, on everybody, all the time.
It's illegal to lie to the cops.

But, is it illegal to lie on forums and Facebook?

...let them collect misinformation.

Why do you think I run at the mouth? How much of it do you think is true? How can you tell the difference?

I know how to shut the hell up just fine...

Noise. Lots and lots of noise. It's your only defense.
 

demo

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All MasterNodes are publicly exposed. Always have been. Not sure why this is confusing or hard to understand. It has never been any other way.

...which is why I am not an MNO. Too much liability, zero protection from witch-hunting government dead-set on ending crypto by any available method. Even if you're not in it for the money, because it's all about money in the mind of corrupt government, MNs are targeted. If you run a MasterNode, you're going to prison. Period.
If you have 1000 dash, you could run a masternode just before the end of the voting period, in order to be able to vote. Then shutdown your masternode, until the next month when you will become again a masternode, just for a few hours before the voting deadline, with a different masternode ID and IP of course. That way you make the life of the people who want to spot you difficult.

There is an individual who operates 137 masternodes, and he follows the above method.
If you watch his IP addresses ( VOTE_HASH: 1322428539327371615009892572746926458241730394333 ) they are all dispersed around the globe:
  1. 165.227.51.50
  2. 139.59.148.216
  3. 165.227.214.114
  4. 159.65.9.112
  5. 89.47.167.182
  6. 165.227.40.243
  7. 192.241.196.120
  8. 165.227.43.32
  9. 192.241.228.45
  10. 165.227.211.61
  11. 139.59.137.93
  12. 162.243.147.190
  13. 138.68.67.189
  14. 89.47.167.193
  15. 194.135.81.30
  16. 80.208.225.45
  17. 89.47.167.190
  18. 207.154.209.231
  19. 89.47.167.50
  20. 192.241.230.14
  21. 89.47.167.188
  22. 159.203.10.79
  23. 188.166.162.126
  24. 165.227.211.85
  25. 46.101.158.243
  26. 165.227.84.99
  27. 165.227.215.199
  28. 46.101.248.165
  29. 162.243.146.170
  30. 165.227.55.198
  31. 162.243.131.75
  32. 159.203.63.181
  33. 212.24.107.48
  34. 46.101.79.64
  35. 185.5.54.30
  36. 80.209.237.204
  37. 165.227.45.80
  38. 192.241.240.219
  39. 159.65.1.101
  40. 194.135.83.193
  41. 165.227.84.130
  42. 162.243.146.67
  43. 139.59.135.189
  44. 139.59.144.247
  45. 138.68.191.203
  46. 165.227.84.147
  47. 89.47.167.187
  48. 138.68.191.199
  49. 159.89.32.12
  50. 185.81.167.13
  51. 89.47.167.78
  52. 89.47.167.184
  53. 109.235.66.234
  54. 159.89.47.10
  55. 192.241.243.156
  56. 159.89.40.235
  57. 89.47.167.183
  58. 89.47.167.53
  59. 46.101.79.13
  60. 165.227.35.146
  61. 89.47.167.57
  62. 46.101.219.169
  63. 195.181.241.78
  64. 159.65.9.114
  65. 192.241.244.212
  66. 162.243.5.102
  67. 165.227.35.158
  68. 139.59.79.59
  69. 139.59.66.51
  70. 139.59.79.124
  71. 139.59.74.250
  72. 139.59.74.251
  73. 139.59.65.183
  74. 139.59.70.141
  75. 139.59.128.70
  76. 159.89.139.77
  77. 162.243.146.113
  78. 139.59.70.221
  79. 139.59.78.11
  80. 139.59.78.18
  81. 185.5.53.230
  82. 89.47.167.192
  83. 185.81.166.6
  84. 89.47.167.81
  85. 165.227.16.55
  86. 178.62.40.206
  87. 159.65.9.115
  88. 139.59.78.65
  89. 139.59.78.78
  90. 139.59.69.99
  91. 46.101.103.200
  92. 212.24.103.79
  93. 138.197.129.153
  94. 165.227.37.206
  95. 139.59.65.89
  96. 139.59.69.75
  97. 185.5.55.6
  98. 194.135.81.129
  99. 89.47.167.80
  100. 178.62.51.151
  101. 139.59.73.128
  102. 159.89.131.73
  103. 207.154.233.239
  104. 89.47.167.189
  105. 89.47.167.45
  106. 159.89.131.76
  107. 67.205.128.88
  108. 89.47.167.185
  109. 67.205.189.165
  110. 174.138.36.154
  111. 194.135.93.215
  112. 192.81.218.187
  113. 139.59.231.219
  114. 139.59.96.32
  115. 94.176.233.149
  116. 139.59.128.202
  117. 139.59.96.42
  118. 138.197.136.108
  119. 165.227.43.1
  120. 89.40.0.14
  121. 139.59.96.45
  122. 139.59.96.52
  123. 46.101.150.181
  124. 165.227.39.120
  125. 89.47.167.186
  126. 139.59.96.55
  127. 159.89.141.241
  128. 139.59.96.83
  129. 89.47.167.181
  130. 139.59.96.130
  131. 89.47.167.79
  132. 195.181.243.130
  133. 139.59.96.84
  134. 139.59.96.91
  135. 89.47.167.194
  136. 159.203.33.145
  137. 165.227.35.188
 
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jimbursch

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There is an individual who operates 137 masternodes, and he follows the above method.
I want to understand how you figured this out. Pardon my ignorance, but I am really curious about this.

How did you identify these 137 MNs? If I understand correctly, these 137 MNs will have a different IP in a month? Why do you think someone flips on MNs to vote, but not collect the MN rewards?
 

demo

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I want to understand how you figured this out. Pardon my ignorance, but I am really curious about this.

How did you identify these 137 MNs? If I understand correctly, these 137 MNs will have a different IP in a month? Why do you think someone flips on MNs to vote, but not collect the MN rewards?
I identify the masternode operators by the way they vote. It is the vote hash, in my mnowatch project.

Someone who is extremely rich, does not care about MN rewards. He cares more about anonymity, he cares more not to be caught and not to be taxed. Thats why many of the old (rich) guard shut down their mnos or they refuse to vote , as shown also in the statistics:
There is a huge increase of unique masternodes (from 645 to 1647!)
Either it is true, or they adapted to my code in order to hide themselves.
Obviously the votehash is not enough, in order to spot the operators having multiple masternodes. The R&D continues.
(dandelion?)
P.S.
You may also be interested in some other queries [1] , [2] that you can execute in the provided html data.
In this report I created 31-12-2017 using the (unverified by me) historical data from dashninja API , you can see 4776 online and 6789-4776=2013 offline MNOS, what they voted, and their votehash. This data dates (according to dashninja) since the beginning of the version 2 dash governance system.
 
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strophy

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@demo this is fascinating stuff, could you post it in a new thread so more people can see it and join the discussion? I'm worried it is too deep in this thread to be seen. I know of a few other efforts underway to determine the number of unique masternode owners, so maybe you could coordinate efforts. Personally I'm also interested in trying to calculate the gini coefficient of various blockchains to gauge their level of inequality...

I've seen somewhere (but can't remember where) that there is some sort of check to prevent shifting 1000 dash around to start a new masternode, vote on various proposals, rinse and repeat. I think the masternode must be in the payment list when votes are counted or something like that - votes by non-existent masternodes will be dropped.
 

demo

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@demo this is fascinating stuff, could you post it in a new thread so more people can see it and join the discussion? I'm worried it is too deep in this thread to be seen. I know of a few other efforts underway to determine the number of unique masternode owners, so maybe you could coordinate efforts.
There is a story related to my efforts. I wanted to post the appropriate info on each proposal thread (and pre-proposal) , but the forum admins deleted my posts. And they send me to the off topic. There, I am allowed to talk about this subject.

I dont know other efforts on this subject...where and who are they? Can you give me urls or nicknames? Maybe we can cooperate and buy a droplet , instead of hosting the whole effort in github where databases and server side scripts are not allowed (so I am forced to code the system in an awkward way)

@demo
Personally I'm also interested in trying to calculate the gini coefficient of various blockchains to gauge their level of inequality...
Maybe the below is usefull for you:
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-dash-addresses.html

Dash distribution
Balance
Addresses % Addresses (Total) Coins $USD % Coins (Total)
0 - 0.001 78947 13.21% (100%) 28.48 DASH 17,715 USD 0% (100%)
0.001 - 0.01 77985 13.05% (86.79%) 317.00 DASH 197,195 USD 0% (100%)
0.01 - 0.1 174142 29.13% (73.75%) 4,123 DASH 2,564,911 USD 0.05% (100%)
0.1 - 1 148962 24.92% (44.62%) 46,374 DASH 28,848,064 USD 0.58% (99.94%)
1 - 10 88146 14.75% (19.7%) 226,083 DASH 140,639,978 USD 2.85% (99.36%)
10 - 100 21680 3.63% (4.95%) 516,986 DASH 321,602,086 USD 6.52% (96.51%)
100 - 1,000 2725 0.46% (1.32%) 701,857 DASH 436,605,093 USD 8.85% (89.99%)
1,000 - 10,000 5150 0.86% (0.87%) 5,758,751 DASH 3,582,353,964 USD 72.64% (81.13%)
10,000 - 100,000 33 0.01% (0.01%) 673,007 DASH 418,658,097 USD 8.49% (8.49%)
Addresses richer than
1 USD 100 USD 1,000 USD 10,000 USD 100,000 USD 1,000,000 USD 10,000,000 USD
499,476 196,947 73,508 18,135 6,719 174 19


I've seen somewhere (but can't remember where) that there is some sort of check to prevent shifting 1000 dash around to start a new masternode, vote on various proposals, rinse and repeat. I think the masternode must be in the payment list when votes are counted or something like that - votes by non-existent masternodes will be dropped.
Where is this check in the code?
And how long does it take to reach the payment list?
Maybe @UdjinM6 can help on this...But he is busy this period, and he does not participate a lot in the forum.
 
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strophy

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@pablomp it looks like @demo might be working on something similar to you?

Regarding the bitinfocharts data, yes, that is what we will initially use to calculate the gini coefficient. Will know soon if that is granular enough.
 

camosoul

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Seems like some people are trash talking dash down so they can perhaps scoop up some cheap coins from weak hands. (?)
I might have some critical things to say, but my entrance price was $0.007 or lower, so... This is hardly a move for cheap coins.

I still get to be part of the coinbase witch hunt, even though I never sold anything...

But, with global government finally taking notice and doing everything they can to destroy crypto, it might be time to bail out... I was hopeful for the technology, but it's not worth anything but what ponzi remains, thanks to guv and the weakness of those who won't even try to put up a fight.

Inventing banned tech is not useful.
 

camosoul

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The only fight you have to put up is to HODL. You're still way up in monetary terms.

Don't bow down in fear or submit to those who seek to control you. You're not a slave. (Are you?)

Take some profits. (Not thru coinbase, I'm sure you're creative and savvy enough to know what to do.)

But don't throw in the towel completely.

I'm sure the market will snap up any and all coins you have in any event. (Although in your case it could be a massive dump I guess.)
Why not use coinbase? They put up a fight, and got the overreaching subpoena massively reduced.

I'm not hiding anything. My stacks are too big to hide anyway.

The problem is the willingness of corrupt government to lie and invent false charges. If you've ever posted on a crypto forum, no matter what you said, then you're a target for their "make shit up" punishment by process games.

Coinbase has nothing to do with it. If anything, I like that they put up a fight and at least tried to deal with the traitors... Has anyone else?
 
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dashinstant

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The government attack cryptocurrencies even further. They are not coins, they are commodities!
http://fortune.com/2018/03/07/bitcoin-cftc-commodities-coin-drop-markets/
Just because some scam artist happened to con some ppl out of some crypto doesn't undermine the use case for this technology unless you allow your slave masters to brainwash you.

Yes, perhaps some regulation regarding investment schemes needs to be implemented. But this was hardly a Bernie Madoff type of operation was it?

Don't conflate investment scams with regulation to attempt to intimidate you and undermine the use of the actual technology itself.

The toothpaste is out of the tube. It can't be regulated back in.

I'm sure there are plenty of countries around the world who will welcome crypto businesses and economic activity. And not just under-developed ones.

For example recent announcement from Germany regarding crypto spending not being taxed.

Dunno why u guys are so negative. (Tip: Try not to focus on the price for a while.)
 
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Isabel

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Hello, excellent information that you have given us, in my personal opinion I think that many times public organizations or governments fear new technologies that can not be controlled by these entities, I think you have taken the best decision.

Best regards!
 

z730

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A few weeks ago we have been contacted by the Virtual Currency Team at the NCIJTF, a task force of federal agencies led by the FBI. They said they routinely contact industry experts and actors to keep their knowledge up to date, wanted to know more about Dash and arrange a meeting. We have exchanged a few emails to learn more about their intentions and, after a lot of consideration, we have decided not to meet with them.

We understand that law enforcement has a very important role in society and the Dash Core team is committed to always respect the law anywhere it operates. In this case, it looks like they only want education and a contact point for future reference. That by itself is not necessarily bad, but we don't want to create a dynamic that could lead to uncomfortable situations for anyone in the project. Besides that, the only information that anyone in the team has is what is publicly available in the blockchain or our site. Anyone with a computer can provide as much information as the team, so there is no point in meeting. We have made that clear to them.

Dash is completely legal and that has always been the opinion of all lawyers we have consulted about it since the beginning of the project. Being contacted by authorities is only natural when a project reaches the size and notoriety that Dash has. We are sharing this information because we are committed to transparency with the community, not because there is any problem. However, if someone has any doubt or is contacted by law enforcement about Dash, please don't hesitate to reach out to me if you desire so. Obviously, if it is an urgent or grave matter, contact an attorney in your jurisdiction first.

In the next few days we will create a few pages in the website where we explain how there is no point for law enforcement to ask for information because there is no information that we can share.
 

camosoul

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regulation to attempt to intimidate you and undermine the use of the actual technology itself.
They've been getting away with precisely this by fraudulently misrepresenting cryptocurrency as a property in order to crush developments like InstantX. The objective being to force Ponzi/Tulips and put people off of crypto by leaving scamming as the only thing left to do with it...

Yes, they very much can put the toothpaste back in the tube. They realize ze the level of barbarism needed will not generally be tolerated, which is why they are doing their best to spread misinformation and foment distaste. Once they get enough clueless people pissed off and convinced it's a scam and a terrorism/money laundering/child porn conduit/drugs etc., then they can get away with increased barbarism.

Look what they did to Switzerland before crypto was even invented, then get back to me about "other countries" doing their own thing... Safe haven gave been dropping like flies for the last 20 years. They get in line or they get slandered into the stone age with the same propaganda/misinformation machine they use on everything they want to control.

True. Germany is a good example. But, not so much when you consider Germany is the headquarters for everything evil and dysfunctional about the EU, of which decent people are sick to death of being shit on...

There is a backlash against the creeping socialism of the past 80 years coming, but it will include an increase in authoritarianism, not a decrease. Cryptocurrency is being set up as one of the fall guys. The Huxlian begets the Orwellian.