Rebranding Followup

[fernando]

So you are saying that lying and giving false information is good for this coin?

And fernando, I am puzzled that you seem to agree to this.

I guess you say that because I liked the post. I guess I'll have to stop liking to avoid being over analyzed :tongue:

I've had some disagreements with Tao over the official Twitter account and I hope we can solve them, but I have no legitimacy to say anything about his own Twitter account. What he does is his own business. I may like it or not, but if I say something it will be in private and as a friend, not as someone part of the Darkcoin team because his private account is not Darkcoin.

Anyway, Alex's message had several parts and the one that prompted me hit the like button was the one asking for some support for the team. I know we all love Darkcoin. I know some of us screw things up on occasion (this one being the most recent one). But sometimes it is discouraging to put a lot of time and get only negativity. Mistakes are not intentional and I really regret that we have offended some people (they are right, btw, they really do a lot for Darkcoin and should have been consulted), so some empathy was nice to get :grin::grin::grin:

 

[moli]

I guess you say that because I liked the post. I guess I'll have to stop liking to avoid being over analyzed :tongue:

I've had some disagreements with Tao over the official Twitter account and I hope we can solve them, but I have no legitimacy to say anything about his own Twitter account. What he does is his own business. I may like it or not, but if I say something it will be in private and as a friend, not as someone part of the Darkcoin team because his private account is not Darkcoin.

Anyway, Alex's message had several parts and the one that prompted me hit the like button was the one asking for some support for the team. I know we all love Darkcoin. I know some of us screw things up on occasion (this one being the most recent one). But sometimes it is discouraging to put a lot of time and get only negativity. Mistakes are not intentional and I really regret that we have offended some people (they are right, btw, they really do a lot for Darkcoin and should have been consulted), so some empathy was nice to get :grin::grin::grin:

Oh.. I'm sorry, yes your "like" to that post gave me the impression. I apologize.
But, I meant to ask you this: who has access to the official Twitter account? If Tao has access to it, I would like to request for you to change it. Please let someone else who is, not only fluent in English, but also well grounded in ethical journalism.

Thanks, Fernando.

 

[chatterbox]

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to just follow up with the rebranding discussion that the community has been having since I posted yesterday and clarify some misconceptions that are going around in the community.

First thing is, the name change isn’t final. We’re opening this up to discussion by the community, the only thing that’s known at this time is the name “Darkcoin” has some negative perception by businesses we’ve reached out to. They’ve said, it’s not the privacy centric nature of the product, but the name that is unfortunate.

The name “Dash” was recommended by the community some time ago. We picked up on that and the foundation began investigating the use of it and found a trademark application. The whole reason we’ve acquired the rights, was not because the decision was final, but because we need to challenge that trademark application to even be able to use the name, otherwise it’s a complete non-starter.

We’re absolutely open to everyone’s input and always have been. We would like this process to be 100% transparent as possible. In the community supports it, I would support hiring a firm to handle the rebranding for us. We could allow the firm to engage directly and transparently with the community, then have foundation members vote on the final decision.

Originally when the community started talking about rebranding months ago, we also began talking about it internally. It’s obvious that we missed something in the process and I’d also like to apologize on behalf of myself and the foundation’s board for this.

Do not rebrand unless you want to lose users and confuse new ones.

 

[Minotaur]

So you are saying that lying and giving false information is good for this coin?

And fernando, I am puzzled that you seem to agree to this.

I think "lying" is a strong word. TaoOfSatoshi puts in a lot of effort and does well most of the time. I think we should give him feedback about individual actions and not extrapolate outside of that. Three things I thought were a mistake: his insistence on the Bitcoin Rush video (thankfully as we change names it wont be used anymore), the btc-e misleading campaing and tweeting from the official twitter too early about DASH. Those are only 3 things, he tweets everyday.

His work should be encouraged, and all of us should be objective enough to give feedback where needed, hopefully he will be more careful going forward. Plus, like alex-ru said others can start their own unofficial channels to provide different narratives.

 

[fernando]

Oh.. I'm sorry, yes your "like" to that post gave me the impression. I apologize.
But, I meant to ask you this: who has access to the official Twitter account? If Tao has access to it, I would like to request for you to change it. Please let someone else who is, not only fluent in English, but also well grounded in ethical journalism.

Thanks, Fernando.

No problem :smile:

As for the official Twitter account, Tao manages it, I don't have access to it. I can only say that tweeting consistently is quite difficult and we've also had some problems in the past when other people managed it. Instead of starting a trial against him, I would prefer if we could all suggest what should go into the official Twitter account and try to work with him.

 

[moli]

I think "lying" is a strong word. TaoOfSatoshi puts in a lot of effort and does well most of the time. I think we should give him feedback about individual actions and not extrapolate outside of that. Three things I thought were a mistake: his insistence on the Bitcoin Rush video (thankfully as we change names it wont be used anymore), the btc-e misleading campaing and tweeting from the official twitter too early about DASH. Those are only 3 things, he tweets everyday.

His work should be encouraged, and all of us should be objective enough to give feedback where needed, hopefully he will be more careful going forward. Plus, like alex-ru said others can start their own unofficial channels to provide different narratives.

You forgot to mention the tweets about ccex and "Darkcoin now works on Trezor out of the box".

 

[moli]

No problem :smile:

As for the official Twitter account, Tao manages it, I don't have access to it. I can only say that tweeting consistently is quite difficult and we've also had some problems in the past when other people managed it. Instead of starting a trial against him, I would prefer if we could all suggest what should go into the official Twitter account and try to work with him.

I understand. He has the right to his own twitter or whatever, but the official Twitter need to be watched.
I can think of a number of people who can do better: Minotaur, Oblox, Toknormal, Tante.
Thank you.

 

[chatterbox]

Has the PR fiasco started already or am I late to the party?

It does not take Forrest Gump to realize changing the name of coin is a bad idea.

Renaming a boat is, of course, not something to be done lightly. Since the beginning of time, sailors have sworn that there are unlucky ships and the unluckiest ships of all are those who have defied the gods and changed their names. So, is there a way to change a name and not incur the wrath of those deities that rule the elements? Yes, Virginia, there is.

According to legend, each and every vessel is recorded by name in the Ledger of the Deep and is known personally to Poseidon, or Neptune, the god of the sea. It is logical therefore, if we wish to change the name of our boat, the first thing we must do is to purge its name from the Ledger of the Deep and from Poseidon’s memory.
This is an involved process beginning with the removal or obliteration of every trace of the boat’s current identity. This is essential and must be done thoroughly.
-By Capt. Pat​

​

 

[Minotaur]

What follows is my personal opinion, please be flexible if it does not coincide with yours:

1. We should cut Evan some slack, this is a complex issue. Find a potentially good name, check with patent attorneys, acquire another small project, register the potential domains. He can't come out and propose something like this publicly without taking those precautions. It is a lot of work and responsibility he carries, who can do it better? At least I have seen him be patient, objective and consider everyone's opinion. Whether it was given to him directly or he gathered them from the forums. As this is a subject that the community has discussed for months on end. Even the name that he thought could work came from the community.

2. I have seen people upset about Vertoe leaving, he decided to leave at the mere mention of a name change. Why? Because Evan did not go to him to consult him? Or because regardless of the name re-branding away from Darkcoin is something he thought was contrary to his idea of going DeepWeb, Darkmarket, openly defiant route? I think is the latter, and although I am sad to see him go, I think the route to protect the civil liberties of the majority is to make the technology accessible to the majority, if we stay "dark" we won't reach the people that need our help.


3. You should have realized after reading 75 pages of BCT and Two DCT threads that this is a subject we can't vote on, is impossible. It would be great if a large group could decide together on something important like this but is just not human nature, it can't be done. That is why we should defer to Evan, he earned our trust and we should let him take this decision. He has invested his life force into this thing and I truly feel he is making the right decisions.

4. Uncertainty is the enemy. I really hope we stay DASH and Evan defines this quickly, I have unanswered Darkcoin emails. I want to start calling people that I can now talk to as DASH that I couldn't as Darkcoin. (I know the name is not defined yet, but I like it and this is just my personal opinion anyway)

5. About the re-branding itself. Rebranding is something that happens in the mind of people, is not about changing logos completely and using a cheetah tomorrow. If all of a sudden people go to coinmarketcap.com and see a different logo and a different name as number 5 in the ranking. They won't know what it is and probably assume is something different. That is why I think it has to be DASH, we keep the D logo and colors. We do need to look at the fonts we will use for Dash maybe similar ones to what we use for Darkcoin. We would need DASH accepted here signs, and we would have to contact all sites where DRK is currently accepted so they can update their websites. We get Propulsion to direct dashtalk.org to this same site and probably keep them both for a few months, same thing for darkcoin.io

What I am presenting here is realistic, I am sure we can do it. I liked a few of the ideas that were presented but I don't think we could do the short term transition with those as we could with DASH.

6. The new fonts and composition with the D logo, needs to be done by professional graphic designers and approved officially by Evan. We should stay away from unofficial stuff popping up in the forums, we are not a recently launched project anymore we can do better.

7. After it stays like I described in point 5 for a while maybe 6 months or something, and people already know us as DASH. We can see where we are and see if any further change of logos or something is necessary.

8. About using a re-branding company I like the idea, I think it sounds great, but I don't think is going to happen. Who would be this company? How much would it cost? Who will pay for it? What do they know about crypto? If we are looking for a media company to help us push the new brand, then great. But the name itself I think we know our business better, plus preserving the D logo at the beginning is important for the transition and that limits the options.

I am known to be a pragmatist and my wife tells me I am unemotional so I apologize if anything I said is inappropriate in any way. Again is only my opinion, but know that I do care about this project and I thought about every possible option before sharing with the group.

 

[Minotaur]

Has the PR fiasco started already or am I late to the party?

It does not take Forrest Gump to realize changing the name of coin is a bad idea.

​

Who are you chatterbox? It is a little bit weird that is are your first posts. Do you go by a different handle on BCT?

 

[oblox]

I'm comfortable with people using potential new names in an unofficial capacity to see whether or not it is something viable for the project. After all, I've read numerous people coming around to the new name change after letting it resonate a bit. Having said that, its a fine line as we're currently Darkcoin and nothing is finalized, both from a project name standpoint but from a legality standpoint as well.

Anyone opposed to the name change isn't thinking about trying to bring on new merchants--the very people that any coin needs to survive. It's not all about friends and family transacting in Darkcoin... it's about the currency aspect of things in addition to investment potential, of being able to use it as a viable currency--i.e., being able to exchange your Darkcoins (or whatever the new coin is) for goods and services.

When I first got into Darkcoin back in March, I was comfortable in the name because I never figured it would amount to much outside the underground markets (which, in there own right, are quite large. 1.8T USD years ago on an annual basis last I checked). It was only when IX came about and I saw first hand the potential for it that I knew Darkcoin as a name alienated people that would be interested in the coin strictly from a fast confirm standpoint. It was when we became more than just a privacy-centric coin that the name had to go. You can stick to your guns all you want about the name and how it has established us in crypto, but being a year old and only an 18M market cap isn't large by any means. If we were in the position of Bitcoin with a billion+ marketcap, it might be a different story, but we aren't. Embrace the very positive change that opens the doors for more user acceptance. Instead of trying to defend the name to potential new users that it isn't just a coin for illegal activities, you have a blank slate to build from--one where you can not only emphasis privacy, but also IX and the potential for the MN network in the future.

 

[chatterbox]

Who are you chatterbox? It is a little bit weird that is are your first posts. Do you go by a different handle on BCT?

I actually finally just started getting into darkcoin and have no idea what you are questioning me about. I think it's stupid to change the name. Get off my balls.

 

[tungfa]

relax !

 

[oblox]

What follows is my personal opinion, please be flexible if it does not coincide with yours:

1. We should cut Evan some slack, this is a complex issue. Find a potentially good name, check with patent attorneys, acquire another small project, register the potential domains. He can't come out and propose something like this publicly without taking those precautions. It is a lot of work and responsibility he carries, who can do it better? At least I have seen him be patient, objective and consider everyone's opinion. Whether it was given to him directly or he gathered them from the forums. As this is a subject that the community has discussed for months on end. Even the name that he thought could work came from the community.

2. I have seen people upset about Vertoe leaving, he decided to leave at the mere mention of a name change. Why? Because Evan did not go to him to consult him? Or because regardless of the name re-branding away from Darkcoin is something he thought was contrary to his idea of going DeepWeb, Darkmarket, openly defiant route? I think is the latter, and although I am sad to see him go, I think the route to protect the civil liberties of the majority is to make the technology accessible to the majority, if we stay "dark" we won't reach the people that need our help.


3. You should have realized after reading 75 pages of BCT and Two DCT threads that this is a subject we can't vote on, is impossible. It would be great if a large group could decide together on something important like this but is just not human nature, it can't be done. That is why we should defer to Evan, he earned our trust and we should let him take this decision. He has invested his life force into this thing and I truly feel he is making the right decisions.

4. Uncertainty is the enemy. I really hope we stay DASH and Evan defines this quickly, I have unanswered Darkcoin emails. I want to start calling people that I can now talk to as DASH that I couldn't as Darkcoin. (I know the name is not defined yet, but I like it and this is just my personal opinion anyway)

5. About the re-branding itself. Rebranding is something that happens in the mind of people, is not about changing logos completely and using a cheetah tomorrow. If all of a sudden people go to coinmarketcap.com and see a different logo and a different name as number 5 in the ranking. They won't know what it is and probably assume is something different. That is why I think it has to be DASH, we keep the D logo and colors. We do need to look at the fonts we will use for Dash maybe similar ones to what we use for Darkcoin. We would need DASH accepted here signs, and we would have to contact all sites where DRK is currently accepted so they can update their websites. We get Propulsion to direct dashtalk.org to this same site and probably keep them both for a few months, same thing for darkcoin.io

What I am presenting here is realistic, I am sure we can do it. I liked a few of the ideas that were presented but I don't think we could do the short term transition with those as we could with DASH.

6. The new fonts and composition with the D logo, needs to be done by professional graphic designers and approved officially by Evan. We should stay away from unofficial stuff popping up in the forums, we are not a recently launched project anymore we can do better.

7. After it stays like I described in point 5 for a while maybe 6 months or something, and people already know us as DASH. We can see where we are and see if any further change of logos or something is necessary.

8. About using a re-branding company I like the idea, I think it sounds great, but I don't think is going to happen. Who would be this company? How much would it cost? Who will pay for it? What do they know about crypto? If we are looking for a media company to help us push the new brand, then great. But the name itself I think we know our business better, plus preserving the D logo at the beginning is important for the transition and that limits the options.

I am known to be a pragmatist and my wife tells me I am unemotional so I apologize if anything I said is inappropriate in any way. Again is only my opinion, but know that I do care about this project and I thought about every possible option before sharing with the group.

I agree that keeping the existing logo style D and promotional media and colors is the most appropriate thing to do during this transitionary period. Companies enhance logos all the time and you can easily google past logos to see how subtle modifications can bring new freshness to a company. With coinmarketcap and the likes of showing new coins all the time, it makes the most sense to at least have some semblance that we are still the same coin we have always been and the retaining that logo will be key for an undefined transitionary period.

As for the redirect, a migration of the forum db to the new domain is the most appropriate, not the other way around--you want people to punch in darkcointalk and be forwarded to the new site, with the same credentials, not the other way around. It would be a mistake to take dashtalk and forward them here, further conflicting things. Might have been a typo but just wanted to clarify.

 

[oblox]

And Vertoe leaving if it was about the darkmarkets is pretty foolish if that was in fact the case. Even with a rebrand to appeal to a larger demographic, Vertoe could easily work on increasing DM adoption. Further, DM's in general aren't going to care what the name is as long as the underlying technology still provided the same base-case privacy they have came to expect with Darkcoin. If the best privacy coin out there was named FluffyBunnyRainbowCoin and it provided the very attributes required by those markets, they'd use it. Period. You're splitting hairs if you think a rebrand that doesn't change any of the coin's technology or core but opens doors for new users is a deal breaker.

 

[chatterbox]

If the best privacy coin out there was named FluffyBunnyRainbowCoin and it provided the very attributes required by those markets, they'd use it. Period. You're splitting hairs if you think a rebrand that doesn't change any of the coin's technology or core but opens doors for new users is a deal breaker.

While I agree with the mechanics being the number one priority as that is its purpose, I see no reason to rename the coin. I'd rather have FluffyBunnyCoin and logo like

than Dash...

Furthermore, Kim KarDASHian will make a claim you are stealing part of her name. jk

 

[oblox]

While I agree with the mechanics being the number one priority as that is its purpose, I see no reason to rename the coin. I'd rather have FluffyBunnyCoin and logo like

than Dash...

No reason eh? How about appealing to a broader demographic? How many merchants have you brought on to Darkcoin? How did you sell Darkcoin to them without overcoming the hurdle that it isn't a coin strictly for nefarious purposes?

 

[chatterbox]

No reason eh? How about appealing to a broader demographic? How many merchants have you brought on to Darkcoin? How did you sell Darkcoin to them without overcoming the hurdle that it isn't a coin strictly for nefarious purposes?

Actually I was talking to the owner of a "glass art" shop about accepting it and Bitcoin. He is in the process of getting accounts set up to allow for transactions. I do not know the specifics of what he's personally doing, but prior to me speaking with him others had mentioned the idea to him. Having know him for years, once I brought it up, I think that finally did it for him. You guys are hostile and should pull your heads out of the sand. The name is not why more merchants haven't come onboard.

Most merchants avoid all crypto.
Some accept Bitcoin
Some may accept Litecoin or Dogecoin or Darkcoin

If you are trying to be the direct competitor of Bitcoin, I don't think a name change can win that battle, but you can surely kill Litecoin.

The fact that Dogecoin even exists with that name should tell you FluffyBunnyCoin is a better choice than Dash.

What are we implying with Dash? We are children running! No? Once again js I think renaming is stupid and like with ships, should be taken with caution. You don't want to sink this ship do you?

 

[oblox]

Actually I was talking to the owner of a "glass art" shop about accepting it and Bitcoin. He is in the process of getting accounts set up to allow for transactions. I do not know the specifics of what he's personally doing, but prior to me speaking with him others had mentioned the idea to him. Having know him for years, once I brought it up, I think that finally did it for him. You guys are hostile and should pull your heads out of the sand. The name is not why more merchants haven't come onboard.

Most merchants avoid all crypto.
Some accept Bitcoin
Some may accept Litecoin or Dogecoin or Darkcoin

If you are trying to be the direct competitor of Bitcoin, I don't think a name change can win that battle, but you can surely kill Litecoin.

The fact that Dogecoin even exists with that name should tell you FluffyBunnyCoin is a better choice than Dash.

What are we implying with Dash? We are children running! No? Once again js I think renaming is stupid and like with ships, should be taken with caution. You don't want to sink this ship do you?

So the answer is one.... maybe. I think the majority want what's best for the coin and frankly, it's not going to happen sticking with the old name. If this is something that concerns you (trying to appeal to more people), you might want to consider allocating your money elsewhere.

 

[balu]

I'm for either Dash, or sticking with Darkcoin. Oh, and a decision soon