Will mining Dash become profitable again?

Status
Not open for further replies.

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
No i do not sorry
I have neither.
If someone can ask @blissz at bitcointalk, whether he can compile a bitcoin wallet in this antminer, it would be nice. He definetely compiled cgminer, so why not a wallet?
I will ask him myself if nobody does, but not now, because I have to go.
Bye for now, and nice talking with you.
 

Noel Morris

New Member
Dec 6, 2017
21
3
1
47
Look what someone did to his antminer D3

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2346161.0

The antminer obviously runs https://github.com/dmaxl/cgminer , as long as @blissz did an update to it.

He is asking for ideas in his poll.
Maybe we should propose him, to compile a dash Masternode on it.
BTW thanks for this link, Im able to upgrade the D3 miner OS last night it seems to be stable. Better, feature more from original manufacturing, I silence the fan w/ ( noise 70% lower) lower chip temp and most of all lower power consumption. from 1200 - down to 700 - 800.....Great work for those who created the software!
 

Noel Morris

New Member
Dec 6, 2017
21
3
1
47
Now all we need to worry about turn this D3 x11 algo, to reprogram to work for BTC SHA256 algo!
 

Eshank

New Member
Dec 4, 2017
27
1
1
20
If you have any Dash - Sell NOW !!!

If you have mining equipment running X11, then I say let it run !
Ok, you are not making any money, but then again, nobody else is either !
Sure, the big farms have way much more hashing power that you, but they also have much more investment than you too.
They have big investments that will eventually want to see some returns, otherwise they shut down.
My electricity cost are low, my Innosilicon A5 dashmaster is taking 850W, and its winter so I need the heat.

Keep mining, keep everybody unprofitable and eventually the big farms will give up long before the home rigs.
Once the farms give up, then we give up too, and Dash is history.
 

Ftoole

Member
Aug 20, 2017
132
27
78
37
Well anyone can argue its currently profitable now if you are mining in China or Ireland. We have to define profitability then. Long term, it doesn't matter what price it is, it will always be unprofitable for small time miners who arent in cheap electricity areas of the world.

I say this because we have to consider continued increase in mining hashrate, people who are holding D3s and recently turned them off turning them back on, and any future ASIC creations later on adding to the network. A similar 3 month dump of ASICs by Bitmain would again increase difficulty by x30.

Short term, it would need to increase fourfold to ~$2500 to return half of what Bitcoin is offering, and ~$5000 for it to constitute any meaningful returns compared to Bitcoin in the next few months with current difficulty and ASIC dump.
So your saying that even if the miners got 100% of the block reward it wouldn’t be enough. So we need to increase the emission rate to ensure profitability.
 

Dandy

Member
Mar 1, 2017
276
99
88
45
Belgrade, Serbia
It seems so... but they don't understand that it would simply kill the value of Dash and they would be even worse off.
Thankfully, miners don't decide the future of Dash.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
If you have any Dash - Sell NOW !!!

If you have mining equipment running X11, then I say let it run !
Ok, you are not making any money, but then again, nobody else is either !
Sure, the big farms have way much more hashing power that you, but they also have much more investment than you too.
They have big investments that will eventually want to see some returns, otherwise they shut down.
My electricity cost are low, my Innosilicon A5 dashmaster is taking 850W, and its winter so I need the heat.

Keep mining, keep everybody unprofitable and eventually the big farms will give up long before the home rigs.
Once the farms give up, then we give up too, and Dash is history.
I personally dont care at all about Dash. But I do care very much about Dash community. So whatever is done, should have the goal to preserve the community and even increase its members.

I think it is a nice idea to turn the unused ASICs of the miners into masternodes. Evan is searching for GPU developers to join the core team, and a masternode into an ASIC is the same thing, as long as you get profit of its big processing power.

Miners should be able to become unofficial Masternodes, in order to be able to support the community in case of a hard fork of dash. The hard fork should be done at least temporarily and until the MNOs negotiate with the community and give voting rights to the stake holders and to the miners. And if they negotiate, then a blockchain merge may occur , in order to reunite the community.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mateus Medeiros

Eshank

New Member
Dec 4, 2017
27
1
1
20
Demo,
I understand your sentiment about theDash community.
However, do not let your blue-eyed innocence blind you to the reality of the situation.
Miners are being shafted, ( pun intended ! )

A community is only a community if everybody benefits to their contribution.
You cannot have a network supported by miners, and the profits being creamed off by the MN's

Miners deserve at least 90% payout for running the system, they are the ones carrying the full risk and putting their money up front !
Sure give the developers and NO's a share,
but not 45 : 45 : 10 !!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mateus Medeiros

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
You cannot have a network supported by miners, and the profits being creamed off by the MN's
Miners deserve at least 90% payout for running the system, they are the ones carrying the full risk and putting their money up front !
Sure give the developers and NO's a share,
but not 45 : 45 : 10 !!!
Of course, this initial hardcoded 45:45:10 is tottaly wrong.
The solution is all the actors to adaptively vote these numbers, using sliders.

The question "how much the politicians should be paid." is not a correct question. The correct question is "how much the politicians should be paid, as a percentage of the total budget, and what are the percentages you vote for other government expenditures?" . The citizents must have a clear view that the more they pay for a government expenditure the less remains for the rest government expenditures. And this cannot be seen when you ask them separate questions for each expenditure. You have to ask them for all the expenditures together, and with the help of sliders similar to the below.



 

Checkerama

Member
Aug 16, 2017
142
75
68
29
So your saying that even if the miners got 100% of the block reward it wouldn’t be enough. So we need to increase the emission rate to ensure profitability.
Correct, which is why I keep repeating that the only worthwhile investment in DASH is a masternode but its not going to be enough to tell people to just buy and hold the tokens while people who hold on to 1000 DASH are getting a payout for running a maintenance system that leaves them with an ROI of almost %6,000 in one year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mateus Medeiros

Checkerama

Member
Aug 16, 2017
142
75
68
29
It seems so... but they don't understand that it would simply kill the value of Dash and they would be even worse off.
Thankfully, miners don't decide the future of Dash.
A difficulty jump, currently, of 52 million and 86 million is the difference between mining 32 DASH in one year and 13 DASH in one year with 150 GH/s (thats 10 antminer D3s). Get real, the emissions are busted for anyone mining this garbage algorithm. You really think solving that issue is going to break the DASH bank? LOL, at least IF we introduced more liquidity into the market by selling off all of our DASH, it'd be doing you a hella a lot more favors than your artificial restriction of supply.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mateus Medeiros

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
IF we introduced more liquidity into the market by selling off all of our DASH, it'd be doing you a hella a lot more favors than your artificial restriction of supply.
I agree. Liquidity is the most important property of money. Dash should stop being a collectible item like gold, diamond, bitcoin, stamps e.t.c. and become real money, used in everyday transactions by ordinary people.

Dash liquidity is exactly what the fiat money spies are afraid of. Thats why they support (with their vote as masternodes) this artificial restriction of supply. The dash community, in order to get rid of the MNO fiat_money_spies, and offer more liquidity to the community, should decrease the masternode collateral fee. Unfortunately the way to convince MNOs to decide towards this direction, is to threat them with a hard fork. I mean, what else can the community do?

I searched the net for instructions on how you can hard fork bitcoin (and/or dash) but couldnt discover technical details on it. Did you find anything, any url explaining in technical terms how you can hard fork bitcoin?
 
Last edited:

Dandy

Member
Mar 1, 2017
276
99
88
45
Belgrade, Serbia
Which is just as it should be, because we don't want to be Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is paralyzed by indecision for years and now had 3 (soon 4) hard forks which split the community.
I switched to Dash from Bitcoin just because I didn't like how Bitcoin functions.
 

Checkerama

Member
Aug 16, 2017
142
75
68
29
Which is just as it should be, because we don't want to be Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is paralyzed by indecision for years and now had 3 (soon 4) hard forks which split the community.
I switched to Dash from Bitcoin just because I didn't like how Bitcoin functions.
You do realize anyone can create a fork off of a blockchain, right? You really think bitcoin god and bitcoin uranium are decided by some small sector of the community to support? LOL! This isnt indicative of successes or failures, but rather of different means to achieve the same end. As a matter of fact, its quite flattering when others create something off of your name in order to garner interest - Bitcoin Gold, which is by far the most useless out of all the forks, is still on track to do better than DASH with only a mere months of existence.

And again, you seem to be living in your own world - I don't think anyone is confused by what I mean by "would be Bitcoin"; Bitcoin is ran by miners, and look who you're trying to emulate now - DASH's survival is literally contingent of Bitcoin's demise, and honestly thats quite pathetic, because you don't have to worry about just one bitcoin, you have to worry about 3. The masses would move to another derivative, as it has been shown with Bitcoin Cash, before they ever move to one where half of the currency is controlled by hundreds of people.
 

Dandy

Member
Mar 1, 2017
276
99
88
45
Belgrade, Serbia
I still don't understand why you even got into Dash? You don't seem to believe in its core principles which were plain to see and you could read about them before you invested anything.
Just searching for profit, I suppose, because at that time it seemed you could make more with the same investment than on some other coin.
 

Checkerama

Member
Aug 16, 2017
142
75
68
29
I still don't understand why you even got into Dash? You don't seem to believe in its core principles which were plain to see and you could read about them before you invested anything.
Just searching for profit, I suppose, because at that time it seemed you could make more with the same investment than on some other coin.
Because I was just like you - head up in the clouds, thinking governance actually meant something for a digitial currency. Turns out, it just creates a system full of greedy owners who think they understand the best plan of action to see a currency to success when, in reality, theyre just looking for the same thing everyone else is - short term profits.

You seem to think you're immune to this rule for some reason, as you sit with retarded ROIs on a failing currency that codepends on other people being interested in achieving the same end of owning a MN and only ever sees success when everyone else is panicking about REAL DECENTRALIZED cryptocurrencies, and the lack of liquidity holding up prices once in a while. You don't care about its future, so you can get off the high horse.

You get to vote on a slush fund that you literally had no input in creating. If you had actually done any of the processes necessary to create the 10% budget you vote on, you wouldn't be voting on such retarded measures - but your disconnect and greed removes you from the reality of your own evangelistic message of DASH being the only hope for a future in cryptocurrency.

You vote for things because prices will rise, not because DASH is going to be a better, more robust currency, or because you think its necessary for a greater audience; you THINK you do, which is the funniest part, but clearly have no concept of audience retention when making these votes. Instead, you take money that you've never created and throw it to increase your own ROIs, create headlines and hype news to get a pump going on your money.

Can someone explain why it was important to spend $600,000 on a Zimbabwe project when half of the population doesn't even have electricity? Because it wasn't about doing anything over there, it was simply about creating a nice headline for the next pump. But yeah, miners are being greedy for asking for a positive ROI and higher emissions for the long-term sustainability of the DASH network's hashrate LOL.

My mission here, unless someone would LOVE to prove otherwise, is to prove just that.
 
Last edited:

Ftoole

Member
Aug 20, 2017
132
27
78
37
A difficulty jump, currently, of 52 million and 86 million is the difference between mining 32 DASH in one year and 13 DASH in one year with 150 GH/s (thats 10 antminer D3s). Get real, the emissions are busted for anyone mining this garbage algorithm. You really think solving that issue is going to break the DASH bank? LOL, at least IF we introduced more liquidity into the market by selling off all of our DASH, it'd be doing you a hella a lot more favors than your artificial restriction of supply.
So we need to generate block faster then one every 2.5 mins or we should increase the block reward so we can increase inflation? If these changes cause the price of dash to go down further should we then increase output more to ensure a miner roi?
 
  • Like
Reactions: solarguy

Checkerama

Member
Aug 16, 2017
142
75
68
29
So we need to generate block faster then one every 2.5 mins or we should increase the block reward so we can increase inflation? If these changes cause the price of dash to go down further should we then increase output more to ensure a miner roi?
There are other ways you can increase reward without altering block generation, such as transaction fee increase or a slider rule to determine MNO payout (which is completely contingent of someone mining the network, btw) much like miners have difficulties set OR higher rewards per block mined.

And again, short term is not the objective here, but long term. I've looked at your example weeks ago about the negative ROI that affected the Bitcoin community after the release of the ASICs around Sept 2013, but even then, people were still mining thousands of Bitcoins per year with similar setups in DASH that are mining:

Take a look - in this example, I used difficulty that could be found in October 2013 and 10 BM1380 chips which constitute 2.8 GH/s each to a total of 28GH/s (Price set at 10,000 chips for 99.9 BTC (avg q4 2013 valuation of Bitcoin @ $1000 = 10 dollars per chip)

upload_2017-12-9_10-1-35.png

Now don't pay attention to profits, but the BTC coins output - negative ROI in 2013 based on Bitcoin's price? Maybe. But at least they had something to look forward to by mining so many Bitcoins in the years to come. Now, we have $1500 machines, THE MOST price and electric efficient to date, and it can't even give back a fraction of its profitability. And you can split the argument in anyway you want, the emissions of Bitcoin made everyone want to mine it, regardless of the negative ROI one would have to invest to get some profitability back. This is with a total of 28 GH/s and a difficulty of 390 Million by the way, so explain why DASH has to suffer through less ROI than that for its miners at a fraction of the difficulty (86M) and 5 times higher hashrates (170GH/s @ 10 Antminers)
 

DDTTRR

New Member
Dec 9, 2017
1
0
1
52
I have been following Dash for a while and in the beginning was planning on fulfilling the requirements of becoming a MNO and not by mining the amount but by purchasing with fiat. I decided to hold off and purchase D3s before taking a large investment. Testing the waters so to speak. Now as many I have found that mining just Dash is not profitable. Other ways to make a profit with the D3 such as multi pool mining the X11 algorithm coins. I am a business owner of 3 companies spanning from a sports bar, insurance and a security company.

I by no means claim to be an expert on Dash. I do claim to be very good at business in general. After reading the forums I have come to the conclusion that there are a few solutions as mentioned in previous posts. But the way Dash was set with MNO. Its not in the interest to follow some of the ideas. I have always listened to my clients and at times moved on the information gathered. I do not see this in Dash. The problem I see is the NWO are not interested in the community and are for the gains they can obtain. Its a sinking ship if things do not support the community. MWO will squeeze until its dry then sell off and move on. In the MNO defense, as crude as it sounds. Definition of business is to gain as much profit as possible. Can you blame them?

Every time someone brings up bitcoin and forks. MNO shot it down like bitcoin is flawed. That is bad. Bitcoin has passed hurdles and have kept the community behind them. I would love to see MNO of Dash get behind its community but do not see that in the future. By this statement I do not mean all MNO but some will not look at lower profits now to gain 2 fold in the future.

I hope the best for Dash. Feel free to bash, tough skin here.
 

Dandy

Member
Mar 1, 2017
276
99
88
45
Belgrade, Serbia
Nobody said that hardforks are bad per se. Dash had a hardfork recently, when block size was raised to 2 MB.
Contentious hard forks are the ones that are not good and Bitcoin had a number of those.
 

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
865
413
133
61
Dear Mr. Checkerama,

"Because I was just like you - head up in the clouds, thinking governance actually meant something for a digitial currency. Turns out, it just creates a system full of greedy owners who think they understand the best plan of action to see a currency to success when, in reality, theyre just looking for the same thing everyone else is - short term profits."

So you are critical of Masternode owners for wanting short term profits, but your whole diatribe is directed at getting short term profits for miners. And frankly, you have no idea what my motivations are as a masternode owner, or the motivations of any other masternode owner, so please stop attributing things to me/us that are purely speculative.

"You seem to think you're immune to this rule for some reason, as you sit with retarded ROIs on a failing currency that codepends on other people being interested in achieving the same end of owning a MN and only ever sees success when everyone else is panicking about REAL DECENTRALIZED cryptocurrencies, and the lack of liquidity holding up prices once in a while. You don't care about its future, so you can get off the high horse."

"retarded ROIs" Again, you attack Masternodes because they are profitable, yet you want more profit as a miner.
"failing currency" Objectively not true, and no matter how many how many times you assert it, it is still not true.
"REAL DECENTRALIZED cryptocurrencies" Sorry, I see no panic in the Dash community, and Dash is plenty decentralized.
"lack of liquidity holding up prices" You are claiming that having a stable price, and reducing downward volatility is a bad thing? It is not.
"You don't care about its future..." Again, asserting it does not make it so. I, and many other MasterNode owners care deeply and for many reasons regarding the future success of Dash.

"You get to vote on a slush fund that you literally had no input in creating."

And if you mine Dash, you are mining on a project that you literally had no input in creating. Also, there are some Dash devs who literally did help create the project and now own and operate MasterNodes, so your statement is once again demonstrably untrue. And it's not a slush fund, it's a development fund to pay our devs, our marketing, our outreach programs, etc.

"You vote for things because prices will rise, not because DASH is going to be a better, more robust currency, or because you think its necessary for a greater audience; you THINK you do, which is the funniest part, but clearly have no concept of audience retention when making these votes. Instead, you take money that you've never created and throw it to increase your own ROIs, create headlines and hype news to get a pump going on your money."

Again, you assert thing that are simply not in evidence. I invested in Dash very specifically because I believed in Satoshi's original vision of providing honest money to people that have been abused by their own governments. And then you assert a bunch of other stuff you can't possibly know. I assert that you have green hair and 3 legs. Did it work?

"Can someone explain why it was important to spend $600,000 on a Zimbabwe project when half of the population doesn't even have electricity? Because it wasn't about doing anything over there, it was simply about creating a nice headline for the next pump. But yeah, miners are being greedy for asking for a positive ROI and higher emissions for the long-term sustainability of the DASH network's hashrate LOL."

Where to even start...
1. You assert that since Zimbabwe is not fully electrified, we should not bother to help them. I assert that they are the ones that most need honest money to get their economy back on track.
2. Even assuming your assertion is true, that means the other half does have electricity. That's 8 million people in desperate need of better currency. Perfect use case for Dash.
3. You assert that we do this only for the marketing value. Again, asserting it does not make it so, because it is not so. In my experience the Dash community wants to make a real difference in the world.
4. Please show me where I have accused any miner of being greedy. A few vocal miners are in fact being unrealistic about what can be changed in the Dash ecosystem.

And I would note that you once again failed to answer my question. So, have you ever seen the warning, "All crypto is risky. Do not invest any more money than you can afford to lose." If you have not seen it, you have been actively avoiding it somehow. And if you have seen it, why did you think it would not apply to you?

You somewhat remind me of RGXDK. Determined, but mistaken.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Vedran Yoweri

DashIsKing

New Member
Dec 9, 2017
2
0
1
50
Hi all, I throw myself into this discussion since i've ordered two D3 machines yesterday. I thought I read about DASH and the value went up quite neat today. But are you telling us/community that starting mining DASH now is worthless? Just so I know, my order can be cancelled.
 

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
865
413
133
61
Hi all, I throw myself into this discussion since i've ordered two D3 machines yesterday. I thought I read about DASH and the value went up quite neat today. But are you telling us/community that starting mining DASH now is worthless? Just so I know, my order can be cancelled.
Unless you have almost free electricity, it is unlikely you can mine Dash profitably as a solo operator. If you had the machines in your possession already (stuck with them), you could likely get your investment back if you hold the Dash for 4-6 months while the value goes up, but then you are no better off than if you just went out and bought the Dash at an exchange.
 

DashIsKing

New Member
Dec 9, 2017
2
0
1
50
Unless you have almost free electricity, it is unlikely you can mine Dash profitably as a solo operator. If you had the machines in your possession already (stuck with them), you could likely get your investment back if you hold the Dash for 4-6 months while the value goes up, but then you are no better off than if you just went out and bought the Dash at an exchange.
Well, i do have free electricity but if i rather buy coins for same amount, it might be better. Thanks for reply
 
Status
Not open for further replies.