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Discussion in 'Mining' started by xoibsurferx, Nov 16, 2017.
I think I discovered some hints on how to hard fork Dash.
I have been following this thread for a while - this looks interesting for those with unprofitable D3's....... I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
"Commission and transaction speed within the Bitcoin network has reached extraordinary values. It is almost impossible to use it as a means of payment. Our team will carry out the Bitcoin hard fork, which was planned for mid-November. At the same time, trading of its futures has been carried out on some exchanges for a long time. HitBTC is among them. I promise that all BTC holders will receive not only B2X in the ratio of 1 to 1, but also a proportional number of Satoshi Nakamoto`s Bitcoins as a reward for their commitment to progress."
Jaap Terlouw, Founder of the project
The main advantages of SegWit2X :
1. Encryption algorithm X11 using;
2. High block extraction rate - 2,5 min;
3. Сomplexity сhanging after each block;
4. Increase block size up to 4 mb;
5. Replay Protection;
6. Unique address format.
Сhanges to the SegWit2X network are already planned:
- Offline codes;
- Lightning Network;
- Smart contracts;
- Anonymous transactions.
I'm in !
I'll bring 32GH/s to the party.
OK, it's not much nowadays, but if we all pool together we can bring Dash down.
We are the Miners !
Can someone describe the plan? What are you supposed to do, in order all to pool together?
Dash mining may not be profitable for miners,
but there may be some hope with Bitcoin2X it uses X11 so we dash miners can switch over.
here is the pool:
Is it not already profitable? please explain I'm new to this forum and Dash
It can be profitable if:
1. You have a fast, new efficient ASIC machine of some kind.
2. You have cheap or free electricity to run the efficient ASIC machine
3. You do not sell all your Dash right when you mine it. Then, 6 months later (as an example) if the Dash price doubles, then your mining just got far more profitable. If the price of Dash goes down (which is possible) then your mining operation becomes less and less profitable.
Older, less efficient machines, and/or normal retail prices for electricity? It would be cheaper to just buy the Dash than burn the all the electricity to make a Dash.
There's a benefit-to-cost ratio associated with mining anything in general.
When it is said that it is "unprofitable" to mine, its mostly related to current prices and current DASH difficulty makes the benefit-to-cost non-existent. So technically yes, its TECHNICALLY profitable to mine DASH, but after the costs are put in, youre probably making 2-3 dollars a day for each ASIC miner you add into the system in comparison to other ASICs which would make you, after costs, 20-30 dollars a day.
This isn't unique to DASH either, its the entire x11 algorithm suite. The bottom of the profitability barrel is all x11 coins. I've written an article explaining the math behind it:
I think that DASH will rise, many miners will disappear with time.
The Dash team might think they have won this round, but the Game is far from over.
Miners are an integral part of the Crypto landscape.
Threat them like shit and they will desert you for ever.
One thing is certain.
There will be no more production or investment in X11 mining hardware.
Nobody is going to develop new asic's for a dead market.
With that, Dash is dead in the water.
It will be stuck with whatever hashing power is out there today, and it will need to fight for its share with the other x11 coins out there, many of which will be more profitable for them than Dash.
As predicted, hashrate soft caps (in terms of profit) at ~2.2 PH/s. Just fluctuating between 1.8-2 now (although there seems to be recent development in the hashrate the last few hours).
I'm figuring miners know the percentage gain of a DASH coin would be a bigger gain than that of a Bitcoin (using NiceHash) and they're moving to it, because what else do you do when the miner is only making 3 dollars a day each (before electricity) lol.
It is fine, if some miners feel unprofitable and leave, someone who stays will get reasonable profit.
So the market found an equilibrium, just as we were saying it would. Imagine my shock...
This is far from over.
Hash rate is so high because those people who bought new Asic miners have got nothing else to do with them.
It's called cutting your losses.
You spend $5,000 on a miner and get a payback of $ 3 per day, so over the course of 10 days you have $30 to go and buy a crate of beer with.
Do not be fooled into thinking that these miners have any sense of loyalty to Dash.
In fact most of them will have a Dash poster on their wall which they throw their empty beer bottles at.
You might think that this is a natural equilibrium, and that some miners are leaving the area so that others can mine profitably.
This is delusional.
Dash will die.
You might have won a battle, but you have not won the War.
Why would Dash die?
I don't get why you think Dash is in a war with miners?
Dash had exactly zero input in Asic miner manufacturing process and how many miners will be produced and sold. Dash didn't campaign for the miners to go out and buy the Asics, they did that by themselves.
When Is evolution going out? Many minners are waiting for its release. So the price can risers.
Dash will die for the following reason.
It is set up as a feudal system with the Feudal masternode Lords, and their vassal miners, who get thrown the occassional scrap.
Eventually the peasants will revolt.
Think about it, what is Dash without miners ?
OK, you can ask the same question about Bitcoin or any other crypto, but we are here talking about Dash.
It is true that the Masternode operators or the Dash core dev team did not tell miners to go buy their Asics.
However, they did not actively encourage them not to, either. Anyway, that is all history now.
Let us look at where we are today, and what is the situation facing us.
OK, forget the establishments relentless war against Crypto for now, ( at least now we know what the real topic of discussion was at Davos.
( It's a place in Switzerland, where the rich and powerful ... never mind )
Status quo is this.
Dash needs miners to run, moreso than it need masternodes.
Miners are out of pocket because of failed investments in asics.
Nobody foreseen the exponential increase in hashing power brought into the X11 environment.
Calling the miners stupid for making that investment does not help at this stage, the fact is it's already done.
So the miners are in a predicament, of their own making, admittedly.
However, this is not without consequences for the total Dash project.
What is the way forward ?
90% of miners switch their equipment off, to allow the other 10% to mine profitably ? - Not going to happen.
Everybody with a miner will mine. Even if you get 20cents a day, it is 20 cents less of a loss for the miners.
So what happens, the difficulty as we see is going astronomical and it is more and more uneconomical for everybody.
Of course the masternode operators and the Core dev team think nothing of this, it is after all just natural economics, they say.
Some miners will switch off and others will stay profitable, so it will balance out. This is short sighted thinking, a sort of "let them eat cake" attitude.
What do dash holders think of this ?
They see their coin being held aloft by miners who are not making any money.
Do you think it is a good idea to hold Cryptocoins in a system, where the people who actually run the system do not make any money ?
It's a bit like getting the bus to work every morning on a bus where the driver does not get paid.
How confident do you feel about your bus driver showing up for his work every morning ?
Knowing that your bus driver does this for a living and that he is expecting to get paid, and that he does not just drive the bus for the fun of it or for some philanthropotic service to his community. One morning you wll find yourself standing at the bus stop, and you will be waiting, and waiting and waiting . . .
As I said,
This party is far from over, and Dash will be abandonded like a rat infested ship as soon as an alternative comes along.
Dash is a Dead man Walking. It just does not know it yet.
If the government and the Big Banks don't kill it, the miners will.
But don't take it personnaly, it's just business.
Where did I call miners stupid? You just made a bad investment. It happens.
The hash/income disparity will correct itself after some time, it's just a question of when.
Dash will function normally with 10% of the current miners or with 10% of the current masternodes. It doesn't care about our feelings, it just does what it's supposed to do.
An equilibrium at 2 PH/s, the equivalent of less than 135,000 D3's.
Talk about centralized. The equilibrium proves that DASH will never be a viable option as a decentralized currency, along with the ridiculous masternode system, which was the entire point of this discussion.
Imagine my shock when you cant seem to recall that.... actually no, thats expected.
Mining is either a hobby or a business. Miners compete with other miners, not Core, not Masternodes.
If there is 1 bus but 5 bus drivers, guess what, 4 bus drivers will lose their job.
Please miners, read the whitepapers, understand supply and demand, make calculations and most importantly read on what opportunity cost is
The white paper anticipated this exact event, all the way in the beginning.
I never called the miners stupid.
Yes, some miners are in a predicament. I feel sorry for them. We have warned people repeatedly of the risks of getting into the mining business. I do not have a magic wand to fix that problem. Neither do the Masternodes have a magic want to fix that problem. Neither does the larger Dash community have a magic wand to fix that problem. And, even if we could fundamentally alter the protocol so miners got a bigger slice of the pie, jacking with the protocol would damage the entire Dash ecosystem and ruin it even further for miners. There is no magic solution to turn the clock back so small inefficient mining operations running on retail electricity can be profitable.
You have complained about the Masternodes getting such a sweetheart deal, making unreasonable profits for so little work. Such greedy Masternodes. I don't see anybody stepping up to cover my millions of dollars worth of losses in the last month or so. You still think it's a bed of roses to be a Masternode owner? How much money has a miner lost if they owned a couple antminers?
Mining matured from a hobby past time, to a mature business model where you have to be very efficient all the way through the mining process to make money.
I’m starting in this business with some capital to invest but nothing of knowledge
Are you able to give me some help?
My email [email protected]
Profit from D3 0.09 dash = 5.4 $
I bought it on pre-order November to 2300
2300 \ 5.4 = 426 days
1500 / 5.4 = 280 days
you will give 0.05 btc trades
this is provided that the technique will work without failures and does not break down
developers, you threw miners !!!!!
They left their anonymity without the development of new investors and miners.
who bought or mined in August 2017, that only in profit
the rest as soon as they return the money invested in the main, will turn out your network.
no news on the official website for a whole year, in general, for the dash forgotten
I'm very sorry that I believed in you, having spent all the savings, and now find a loss .....
Could be. But now mining take more time.
Where do we vote?
You are not allowed to vote that.
This is yet another pre-proposal of mine.
But nobody gives 5 dash in order for this to be added into the budget system , in hope that it will be voted up, funded and finally implemented into the code.
The fork will really happen, when? I don't know your position in Dash Community, but we really need a lot of mining to be at least a little profitable, at least we can pay the energy bill and save some money. Because many people believed in mining and invested their money in it.
The fork depends on you and me. If we are many, the fork may be succesfull.
In order to show how many we are, I created a thread. But I am the only one who signed there.
I'm developing mining concept with extra centres of profit. We utilze PoW heat waste for added value and going to lease houses heated by miners. I know that community provide support for projects, which is capable to provide PR hype for DASH. We are remodeling D3 for house boiler now, so this could be an answer for the question of this topic. I'm interesting to get some support on my small pilot project ICO. Where is here a contest of projects, where I should to submit my proposal in more details?
Yes, sure.. please!!!