Will mining Dash become profitable again?

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xoibsurferx

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Hello everyone,

I'm receiving my antminer D3 tomorrow and from what I've read a lot of people are in the same boat as I am. I purchased it a few months ago when it was extremely profitable - I knew it would drop but not down to nothing like it is now.

I realize the difficulty being as high as it (due to the crazy amount of miners on the network) is has made profitability drop as well as people not holding or using Dash.

Will it turn around and become more profitable to mine again? -> At this rate Dash may not live much longer. I know when Evolution launches that may help but will it?

Just looking for opinions! Thanks!
 

AjM

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If there is too many miners, then natural selection kick in and weak are going to quit.
Same thing with masternodes, if there are too many of them, natural selection...
 

Bitwinter

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If there is too many miners, then natural selection kick in and weak are going to quit.
Same thing with masternodes, if there are too many of them, natural selection...
Hi! Not sure I understand- I know what natural selection is but I don't agree- Not trolling here-I am new :) The weak in your example are the smart in my mind- Who would mine at a loss? Sure you can bank coins and "hope" for a brighter future (I've mined at a loss before- but for a very short time) but for that we may as well just buy coins- Even if there is a die-hard hardcore DASH fan out there that will stay with it until the miners burn out from usage (and no profit) does the community really think this is a sustainable model ? Its not. And if it cost $130/month to run the miner and your only making $15/month ($115 loss) do we really think the larger
miners (people with 10,20,30 miners or more) will stay in the game ? its not about weeding out the weak its about smart mining..those funds going to power mining are better spent elsewhere where returns are presently better (like Scrypt or SHA 256 mining)

The diehards in my mind will most likely come from the little guys with nothing to lose with the 1-3 miners - hope and a prayer- that things will turn around...how sustainable is that ? They are out thousands in mining gear and now hundreds per month in paying for electric.

I don't know enough about the trends so I could be wrong- maybe people leave the mining community- Hash and Difficulty drop- profits return- but there are just SOOOOOO many D3's out there- how long will that take- would it even matter ? if the damage is done can it be reversed ?

Help me understand how you see it playing out :)

Thanks
 
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solarguy

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Lots of people get caught if they don't start mining with the new/fast/powerful mining rig early in the difficulty curve rather than later. I sympathize with your difficulty, but there is not much to be done about it.

Even way in the beginning, Evan described the likely progression of mining, from cpu's to gpu's to asic machines. He designed it to be difficult to implement ASIC machines for the first few years. But he knew they would eventually come out. Then mining becomes more of a wholesale/commercial/industrial process.

The community has tried to warn people of the risks of mining. Did you run across any of those warnings?

You could probably sell your mining rig, probably at a loss, and just buy the Dash directly, so there are other options.

I would add this idea though. If you live in a cold climate, you could think of your mining rig as an electric heater that also produces Dash. If you need the heat, your electricity is effectively free, or at least much cheaper. AND, you can write it off as an expense of the business, effectively relieving you of having to pay taxes on your profit. From the tax man's point of view, you don't have profit. The depreciation of your equipment and your electricity costs eat up "all" of the profit, thus no taxes.

If you live in a hot climate, the "free" heat is a liability, not an asset, and will only cost you more money.
 

demo

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It should be profitable.
In bitcoin forks Miners are responsible of creating the blocks.
If minjng is not profitable then blocks cannot be created, so the coin collapses.
Unless of course there is a decisikn by the masternode owners to turn dash into a non mined blockchain cryptocurreny (there are some of them already running, like duniter for example)
 

solarguy

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It should be profitable.
In bitcoin forks Miners are responsible of creating the blocks.
If minjng is not profitable then blocks cannot be created, so the coin collapses.
Unless of course there is a decisikn by the masternode owners to turn dash into a non mined blockchain cryptocurreny (there are some of them already running, like duniter for example)
What makes you think there are not miners out there making a profit? That's what you're implying right?
 

demo

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What makes you think there are not miners out there making a profit? That's what you're implying right?
No I didnt said that.

My quote was an answer to the question of the thread: "Will mining Dash become profitable again?"

This question implies that miners have no profit. As long as I am miner noob, my response was:

They should earn profit, because if they dont earn profit then Dash (having the technology it has nowadays) is unable to create new blocks and thus function normally.
 
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solarguy

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No I didnt said that.

My quote was an answer to the question of the thread: "Will mining Dash become profitable again?"

This question implies that miners have no profit. As long as I am miner noob, my response was:

They should earn profit, because if they dont earn profit then Dash (having the technology it has nowadays) is unable to create new blocks and thus function normally.
I didn't say, you said it. I said, you implied it.

Do you think mining Dash right now is not profitable?
 
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As a former miner, I am sorry but you make me laugh how naive you have been. Mining is a competition, and you compete to have the highest hash-rate and the lowest electricity bill. If your not making any money your losing the competition, it's as simple as that, another one will take your place. Dash will surely not die at all. The difficulty readjustment algorithm works just fine.

*I stopped minning myself because I could not mine anymore due to the high price of electrify, and the VAT tax on buying the hardware it was quite lot of fun picking the best hardware, and tweaking it to maximum efficiency, but in the end I lost the competition as well.
 
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demo

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I didn't say, you said it. I said, you implied it.

Do you think mining Dash right now is not profitable?
As I already told you, I am a noob in the mining ecosystem and I do not completely understand how it works. So I cannot estimate whether Dash mining is right now profitable, or not.
 
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solarguy

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As I already told you, I am a noob in the mining ecosystem and I do not completely understand how it works. So I cannot estimate whether Dash mining is right now profitable, or not.
Then why are you even responding to this thread?

I am mystified yet again.
 

demo

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Then why are you even responding to this thread?

I am mystified yet again.
Nothing mystified.
After reading this, I said to myself: I know nothing about miners.
So I came here to learn.
 

demo

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I realize the difficulty being as high as it (due to the crazy amount of miners on the network) is has made profitability drop as well as people not holding or using Dash.
Will it turn around and become more profitable to mine again? -> At this rate Dash may not live much longer. I know when Evolution launches that may help but will it?
Just looking for opinions! Thanks!
The solution is simple. Miners, along with the Masternode owners, should be allowed to vote for the difficulty. Everyone should be allowed to cast a vote in between max and min difficulty. And the average of all votes should be the decided difficulty. Also, this voted difficulty should be allowed to change not every 2016 blocks, but in every block.

Keep It Simple Stupid! ---> Vote the numbers!
 
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Checkerama

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As a former miner, I am sorry but you make me laugh how naive you have been. Mining is a competition, and you compete to have the highest hash-rate and the lowest electricity bill. If your not making any money your losing the competition, it's as simple as that, another one will take your place. Dash will surely not die at all. The difficulty readjustment algorithm works just fine.

*I stopped minning myself because I could not mine anymore due to the high price of electrify, and the VAT tax on buying the hardware it was quite lot of fun picking the best hardware, and tweaking it to maximum efficiency, but in the end I lost the competition as well.

Actually its been proven that there are currently no miners, unless they have some top secret, super efficient miner theyre using, regardless of electricity cost, making any meaningful profits out of these miners. It's only been a few months for fuck sake - bitmain has been selling bitcoin miners for years and their hashrate is in the millions of TH/s, DASH JUST broke out of the thousand TH/s mark, this is not normal, and not sustainable.
 
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Checkerama

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If there is too many miners, then natural selection kick in and weak are going to quit.
Same thing with masternodes, if there are too many of them, natural selection...
And you're telling me bitcoin has this problem too? LOL - theres a fuckton of bitcoin miners who arent losing all of their profits so quickly. The miners JUST came out a few months ago, and now you're talking about natural selection between the months of August to November? Not even a year? Get real.
 

TroyDASH

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And you're telling me bitcoin has this problem too? LOL - theres a fuckton of bitcoin miners who arent losing all of their profits so quickly. The miners JUST came out a few months ago, and now you're talking about natural selection between the months of August to November? Not even a year? Get real.
Yes. You said it yourself, the miners just came out a few months ago, and these miners are capable of way more hashing than was previously available. Naturally there would be a rush and a dramatic increase in the hashrate. What did you think would happen after a ton of new miners fly off the shelves, the buyers are not going to use them?
 
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Checkerama

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ok. don't play the game and complain when you loose with arguments witch show you don't understand the game.
I've been playing the game far longer than you have matey. I switched from bitcoin to DASH because I thought this had a promise of global presence on it when it came to its technology. Right now, it just reeks of disappointment and a handful of community members that think they're the adults in the room who avoid "speculation".

What a waste of technology.
 

demo

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I've been playing the game far longer than you have matey. I switched from bitcoin to DASH because I thought this had a promise of global presence on it when it came to its technology. Right now, it just reeks of disappointment and a handful of community members that think they're the adults in the room who avoid "speculation".

What a waste of technology.
@Vedran Yoweri is a well known retarded member of this community.
Dont take him seriously. Nobody does. He is the retarded of the village.
 

solarguy

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I've been playing the game far longer than you have matey. I switched from bitcoin to DASH because I thought this had a promise of global presence on it when it came to its technology. Right now, it just reeks of disappointment and a handful of community members that think they're the adults in the room who avoid "speculation".

What a waste of technology.
Did you read the Dash white paper? If not, I will give you a significant snip of it:

"x11 is a widely used hashing algorithm, which takes a different approach, known as algorithm chaining. x11 consists of all 11 SHA3 contestants[13], each hash is calculated then submitted to the next algorithm in the chain. By utilizing multiple algorithms, the likelihood that an ASIC is created for the currency is minimal until a later part of it’s life cycle."

This is pretty much exactly how it worked out in real life. So, rather than pointing a bunch of Bitcoin ASIC machines at mining Dash as soon as it came out in early 2014 and locking out the hobbyists, the small time miners could profitably mine dash for a year or two, or possibly three years before the X-11 ASIC machines were developed. But it was known and stated that eventually, ASIC machines would come out for X-11.


"Due to the complexity and die size required to create an ASIC for mining x11, we expect that it will take considerably longer than it did in Bitcoin, allowing for hobbyists to take part in the mining for a longer period of time. We believe this is highly important for good distribution and growth of a cryptocurrency."

And again, this is what happened in real life. Instead of Dash mining being completely gobbled up by BitCoin ASIC rigs by the second week, the little guys got several years of profitable mining.

But even from the very beginning, we knew this would happen. We have warned people repeatedly that this would happen. Now that it has actually happened, we feel sympathy for those who got caught with an expensive machine that only pays a few dollars per week. But we are not surprised.

Did you not see the warnings on the mining forum?

2 years in Crypto land is like 10 years in the rest of the world.
 

patrick bell

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Nov 20, 2017
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Did you read the Dash white paper? If not, I will give you a significant snip of it:

"x11 is a widely used hashing algorithm, which takes a different approach, known as algorithm chaining. x11 consists of all 11 SHA3 contestants[13], each hash is calculated then submitted to the next algorithm in the chain. By utilizing multiple algorithms, the likelihood that an ASIC is created for the currency is minimal until a later part of it’s life cycle."

This is pretty much exactly how it worked out in real life. So, rather than pointing a bunch of Bitcoin ASIC machines at mining Dash as soon as it came out in early 2014 and locking out the hobbyists, the small time miners could profitably mine dash for a year or two, or possibly three years before the X-11 ASIC machines were developed. But it was known and stated that eventually, ASIC machines would come out for X-11.


"Due to the complexity and die size required to create an ASIC for mining x11, we expect that it will take considerably longer than it did in Bitcoin, allowing for hobbyists to take part in the mining for a longer period of time. We believe this is highly important for good distribution and growth of a cryptocurrency."

And again, this is what happened in real life. Instead of Dash mining being completely gobbled up by BitCoin ASIC rigs by the second week, the little guys got several years of profitable mining.

But even from the very beginning, we knew this would happen. We have warned people repeatedly that this would happen. Now that it has actually happened, we feel sympathy for those who got caught with an expensive machine that only pays a few dollars per week. But we are not surprised.

Did you not see the warnings on the mining forum?

2 years in Crypto land is like 10 years in the rest of the world.
 

patrick bell

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Great post. I recently received some D3 paperweights after watching the profitability plummet over the last three months while waiting for Bitmain to deliver after point of sale. Live and learn I guess. Quick question- From the DASH white paper they mention Asic mining cards being made sometime for DASH "until a later part of its life cycle". I was wondering why they would use the x11 script if it had a terminal life cycle? What "proof of work" is to replace the x11 script if any?

Bitmain has flooded the hobbyist LTC mining market with the L3++ and the L3++ is still quite profitable. Is this just a script issue? I am just going to hold the D3's for now hoping to see a $7-$10 per day/per machine return after power cost before it is worth setting up. I would love to here from a developer inside DASH comment on this.
 

Checkerama

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Great post. I recently received some D3 paperweights after watching the profitability plummet over the last three months while waiting for Bitmain to deliver after point of sale. Live and learn I guess. Quick question- From the DASH white paper they mention Asic mining cards being made sometime for DASH "until a later part of its life cycle". I was wondering why they would use the x11 script if it had a terminal life cycle? What "proof of work" is to replace the x11 script if any?

Bitmain has flooded the hobbyist LTC mining market with the L3++ and the L3++ is still quite profitable. Is this just a script issue? I am just going to hold the D3's for now hoping to see a $7-$10 per day/per machine return after power cost before it is worth setting up. I would love to here from a developer inside DASH comment on this.
Then you should check out my article - I discuss this in depth and create coefficients independent of price in order to determine true profitability of the current ASIC miner. It is not good for miners to get into DASH at any point in comparison to mining bitcoin.

https://medium.com/@aquilesgomez/hi...11-algorithm-on-the-dash-network-f48533a5e6fe

I also debate on my own thread about the future of the current artifically inflated prices of DASH and why it may scare future investors away from putting money into it as an investment. I propose a solution that I know will never pass among the MNOs.

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-mining-in-any-capacity-is-officially-dead.18051/page-3

As a DASH miner myself, I concluded to just let the difficulty settle in before making any future assumptions about mining profitability, but mining in the DASH community is heavily undervalued and MN are heavily overvalued.
 
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xoibsurferx

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Thank you for all of the replies! I learned a lot just from the few people that posted some great information!

I was NOT warned about mining and the risks besides fire hazards and the noise and heat asic miners create.

As Checkerama mentioned Dash actually has some really neat technology from a development standpoint (I'm actually a web developer) and its crazy that so many people are going away from Dash. Dash Evolution looks to be amazing and will make using crypto much easier for many non techie folks which will definitely be a game changer.

I'm in a tight spot with my Antminer D3 because I can't really afford to sell it for less than I paid for it and so I'm just going to have to mine with it until it won't pay for the electricity anymore.

Lets all just hope the mining profitability goes up and we're able to recover and reach ROI and then some if possible. I'd love to see Dash become more popular and actually use Dash but with so many people pulling away from it I'm not sure that'll happen.
 
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solarguy

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Thank you for all of the replies! I learned a lot just from the few people that posted some great information!

I was NOT warned about mining and the risks besides fire hazards and the noise and heat asic miners create.

As Checkerama mentioned Dash actually has some really neat technology from a development standpoint (I'm actually a web developer) and its crazy that so many people are going away from Dash. Dash Evolution looks to be amazing and will make using crypto much easier for many non techie folks which will definitely be a game changer.

I'm in a tight spot with my Antminer D3 because I can't really afford to sell it for less than I paid for it and so I'm just going to have to mine with it until it won't pay for the electricity anymore.

Lets all just hope the mining profitability goes up and we're able to recover and reach ROI and then some if possible. I'd love to see Dash become more popular and actually use Dash but with so many people pulling away from it I'm not sure that'll happen.
When exactly did you make the decision to buy a mining rig for Dash?
 

choco hamster

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This is really a suprise

I'm quite amuse how senior members of dash community is really hostile towards new members of the community.

I really understand about mining competition and difficulties.

What I don't understand is, from what I have been trolling on dash forum, the way dash community respond to new members.

It seems that the senior members have the right to bully new members.
Basically tell newbie they are loosers who came in late and just became prey and livestock for community.

Dash should really stop welcoming new members and generate new wallets if this is still going.

I don't really understand why asic miners are so condemned in this community.

How are the developers and community hopes for dash ecosystem would exist.
What make a crypto coin lives is the community. Not managements, not boards of directors.

Reading official developer report , they really hate private company for making big profit on making miners.

But the way dash goes, people who bought the miners will become the victim.

Ethereum does a fork to adjust difficulty bomb. To sustain the community and welcoming new members that really does belief in the system.

Bullying new member.
It is not competition. It is a kill switch.

Throughout my years of my worthless life, I only came to this exact hostile environment in a money game scam just when it about to burst.

For my self. I just suck up my D3.
I had high hope for dash. But I see now how I have been a fool.
 

Dandy

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I'm sorry if you feel mistreated in any way and I understand the problem that you are facing as a miner.
That being said, there isn't anything that we MNOs can really do to help you in this situation. You are just a victim of supply and demand. We don't directly control the market, nor would we want to.
The best solution is to work on raising the value of Dash, so it will become more profitable for miners again.
 

Checkerama

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Welcome to the Dash Cargo Cult.

You have already noticed the Dash Cult has a Caste System and how closely the over-defensive hostility of the community resembles that of previous scams such as Paycoin.

Let us describe in detail the Dash Caste System.

At the top of the pyramid is the Cult Leader and High Priest, Evan Duffield. Dash is whatever Evan decides to do, even to the point of altering the emission and renaming/rebranding the entire project.

Right below High Priest Duffield are the rest of the Dash Priest Caste, also known as the Dash Core Group. They are tasked with keeping the cargo cult running according the Duffield's True Vision.

Below them are the equivalent of the traditional Merchant Caste in the form of Masternode Owners. They enjoy the HYIP funded by bringing in new bagholders via normie-targeted marketing as well as the illusion that their votes can somehow alter the decisions higher caste members have already made (EG Million-Dollar Acrobatic-Man).

Supporting the MNOs are the Cult Enforcers and other types of Dash PaidShills. This is where the Plebian tier Dash Castes begin. Enforcers and PaidShills are poor people who whore their online personas out for a share of Dash's Astroturfing budget. They are the Soldier Caste, mercenaries who are bought and sold like horses. Amanda B Johnson is their high-profile standard bearer.

At the very bottom of the Dash Pyramid are the bagholding noobs. Like you, they get shit upon by the higher castes and are considered untouchable in polite Dash Core Group circles.

As evidence of these claims I offer the facts that a Masternode costs $750k and simply submitting a proposal costs $5k. That is not distributed governance by blockchain, that is a whaleocracy where only the Instaminers' opinions matter because they control 90% of all the Masternode votes.
Yeah but don't tell the MNOs that their vote is being manipulated by more than half of all masternodes created in Aug 2015 (literal months after the coin came out), they'll have a hissy fit and tell you they have the power they have because they made SUUUCH a big risk by locking in 1000 DASH and covering a maintenance of like 50 bucks a month while getting paid 8% of their 1000 DASH throughout the year and theyre SUUUCH smart businessmen for literally doing what any early crypto adopter did - hold.
 
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