Darkcoin uses TCP only.He has to support TCP, if DRK uses UDP then UDP too. Tor doesn't even support UDP.
Darkcoin uses TCP only.He has to support TCP, if DRK uses UDP then UDP too. Tor doesn't even support UDP.
Correct. If masternodes go under Tor then wallets will need Tor installed too.
There are services such as tor2web but those are only for websites and it sucks lol.
If asking users to install Tor is such a problem then Darkcoin can simply host a Tor proxy and announce its Ip address and port publicly for everyone to use.
I think going under Tor for Darkcoin is a huge PR gain too. I am sure Torproject would blog about it and Torproject is known more than bitcoin.
Edit: If traffic encryption between wallet <-> masternode matters too then Tor does it for you.
i think complete anonymity is not required. What is required is some level of anonymity so that geeks or agencys can't locate you or your hot wallet so the funds remain safe...tx for all your posts
super interesting !
(I am not a coder at all and just try to understand some general things)
so the relays we have now for TOR (we need 8 to get this really moving) are the once who can help to connect MN's inside the onion ? as they relay to the outside (surface web) ?
is that correct ?
(sorry for the dummy question)
Edit:
I agree that evan should concentrate on DS and IX
but that does not mean that a team (or some community members ) can look into this and start the process / adoption
I tagged you in another thread already where some pieps are working on this.
as in general "DRK is not promoting the DarkNet" but I agree it would give us huge leverage for that community if we run MNs over the Onion + are more active in that community.
vertoe started some post regarding updating red dots and hide wiki and such , I am trying to help him out where I can and it would be great to have more (knowledgable ) people involfed
I don't know much about Tor and the Tor hidden services, but Freenode has its own Tor hidden services and exit nodes. I think some of their servers use Tor and some don't, and they let users who do use their Tor hidden services or not still can log on their servers. And I've seen Freenode ddosed over and over but the botnets can never take it down for long.Correct. If masternodes go under Tor then wallets will need Tor installed too.
There are services such as tor2web but those are only for websites and it sucks lol.
If asking users to install Tor is such a problem then Darkcoin can simply host a Tor proxy and announce its Ip address and port publicly for everyone to use.
I think going under Tor for Darkcoin is a huge PR gain too. I am sure Torproject would blog about it and Torproject is known more than bitcoin.
Edit: If traffic encryption between wallet <-> masternode matters too then Tor does it for you.
Really curious about this as I posted something similar a few pages back. I consider IP obfuscation for the end user when sending coins a key part of Darkcoin's privacy (IMO, nearly to the same level as Darksend) and it would suck if option 1 precluded this. What say you, Evan?eduffield
Guys, I was just wondering how this affects the plans for obfuscation of the final user's ip when sending coins? Is this unrelated to the multipath technology that had been discussed to obfuscate the ip of a computer that was sending a payment?
For now I agree with option 1 with regards to masternode operators, specially because as an operator you earn a reward. I suspect these are two distinct things and IP obfuscation for the end user is something we will still do?
Nope, that's completely separate.Really curious about this as I posted something similar a few pages back. I consider IP obfuscation for the end user when sending coins a key part of Darkcoin's privacy (IMO, nearly to the same level as Darksend) and it would suck if option 1 precluded this. What say you, Evan?
Great! Perfect then I am all for option 1.Nope, that's completely separate.
I am sure both Freenode clearnet and freenode hidden service are hosted on the same computer using the same IP address so criminals have the clearnet ip address thus Tor provides absolutely no ddos protection.I don't know much about Tor and the Tor hidden services, but Freenode has its own Tor hidden services and exit nodes. I think some of their servers use Tor and some don't, and they let users who do use their Tor hidden services or not still can log on their servers. And I've seen Freenode ddosed over and over but the botnets can never take it down for long.
Here's the link about Freenode Tor hidden services if anyone wants to read: https://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml#tor
Entirely possible. Just add a check for client for the masternode address, if it ends with .onion then connect with Tor otherwise connect without Tor.I might be totally off here but I'm thinking if there's a way for Evan to create DRK own Tor hidden services, allow Masternode owners to have a choice to use Tor if they want anonymity, and also allow DRK users to have the same choice. It would be nice to have a network with both Tor-hidden-services and no-Tor-hidden-services mechanisms.
I also want to hear a real argument, not the following bs:Those who object moving the whole DRK network under tor, why not?
NSA this, NSA that. Another point of failure.
The only big problem with plain IP addresses is that people know YOU are using Darkcoin. If Darkcoin becomes illegal then that will be enough proof to start a criminal investigation on you and make you fines or even worse maybe jail time.Really curious about this as I posted something similar a few pages back. I consider IP obfuscation for the end user when sending coins a key part of Darkcoin's privacy (IMO, nearly to the same level as Darksend) and it would suck if option 1 precluded this. What say you, Evan?
Belarus bans Tor tomorrow. Russia is next. Who is next after Russia?..Those who object moving the whole DRK network under tor, why not?
Wow, that's really scary. I hope the people fight back against these tyrants! Whatever it takes... I wonder how they would feel if someone tried to take their personal freedoms away... I really hope its a serious thought in a lot of peoples minds over there. It only takes a few people to change the course of history, look at how much people like Aaron Swartz did for the world, defeating government lobbied attempts to essentially destroy the internet and attack freedom itself. I think its a responsibility to ourselves and the world to stand up for what is right when it is challenged by those who are not. And who are not in the right, whatever they might think of themselves...Belarus bans Tor tomorrow. Russia is next. Who is next after Russia?..
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2015/02/25/belarus-bans-tor-and-other-anonymizers/
https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/02/25/belarus-bans-tor
So even using Tor will be illegal here (and who knows where else) and "they" know about Tor already while I hardly believe "they" know smth about Darkcoin (yet). There are talks about banning VPN too but this will mean death to IT-industry so it will take some time...
How does i2pd sound here? It is i2p re-written in C++. Would that be a good starting point for darkcoin?I agree with this. Just because you are paying for 10 IP addresses doesn't mean your VPS instances aren't all running on the same physical box.
Regarding TOR, hosting the Masternodes on a network designed and funded by the NSA doesn't seem like a great idea to me.
I think it would be much better at the moment to go with the Java version. Its much more mature.How does i2pd sound here? It is i2p re-written in C++. Would that be a good starting point for darkcoin?
In theory, yes its the same story about Bitcoin.
If USA was capable of ddosing North Korea why shouldn't it be possible to ddos something so small(compared to a country) like Bitcoin. Would they want to do it? I don't think so.
However, your creation is the biggest harm to any government, any police officer, any banker in the world. Your creation has made the black market as powerful as ever. I hope to never live the day you get arrested, because you don't deserve it.
Evan Duffield, you sure have balls. Even if I was a cryptocurrency expert, I would never create an anonymous coin - I don't have the balls to stand up against the government.
We will see what happens when your creation is illegal.
Sure, test it out. I must tell you though, Tor currently is much faster than I2p and you should use it in the case that masternode network does not operate through UDP.
Not to criticize you. However, I want to point out that you sound like Tor is going to solve everything automatically. However, as we know, even Flash in a browser needs to be disabled in order for Tor to work without leaking information that may be useful for NSA. So, I think taking the minimal part of Tor that will make it work on darkcoin network will be the better way to go since it also ease the pain for users who would need to set up Tor.Not at all. All you mentioned is using TCP, by supporting the HTTP protocol he automatically supports FTP and everything else because HTTP and FTP and most others are built on top of TCP. He has to support TCP, if DRK uses UDP then UDP too. Tor doesn't even support UDP.
If he moves to Siberia, I will donate a miner to help keeping him warm. :tongue:Moving from Arizona to Siberian Russia lol. He would have to take a lot of miners with him to keep him warm![]()
Flash needs to be disabled because it ignores proxy settings of the browser.Not to criticize you. However, I want to point out that you sound like Tor is going to solve everything automatically. However, as we know, even Flash in a browser needs to be disabled in order for Tor to work without leaking information that may be useful for NSA. So, I think taking the minimal part of Tor that will make it work on darkcoin network will be the better way to go since it also ease the pain for users who would need to set up Tor.
I read the Tor setup documentation some time ago and I thought it was not that simple. There are other means to get you on Tor if the setup is not done right. I think SR is a proof of that statement.Flash needs to be disabled because it ignores proxy settings of the browser.
Also setting up Tor is downloading and executing it, no configuration needed.
There's a couple of competing ideas that have been floating around and I'm not sure which one is superior. The basic question is, should the masternodes show their IPS or not? The answer everyone immediately comes up with is "No", but there are some trade offs to both systems.
Keep in mind, the masternodes individually MUST be able to respond to requests within a few seconds, therefore a anonymity solution such as TOR/I2P is impossible.
1.) One node per IP.
-Higher cost to run a node
-Network will support more computing power
-Zero anonymity for masternode operators
-Much faster response time for Masternode tasks
-Support tasks on direct connection to masternode (Greater security for DS and other tasks like that).
-Highly resistant to DDOS (thousands of machines)
-Less centralization
-Supports Masternode Blinding
2.) Removal of IPS
-Some basic level of anonymity for masternode operators
-Hosts can still be found, it'll just require slightly more work
-Less cost to operate masternodes
-Network as a whole is more slightly more resistant to DDOS
-Will support outbound only masternodes. I.e: How do you attack a node you can't connect to?
-No direct connection to masternodes (DS will be slightly less secure)
-Supports Masternode Blinding
I'm personally leaning toward #1. I don't want Masternode operators to believe their anonymous when they are in fact not at all. They're also incredibly important to the network, so the service must be fast and robust as possible.
The wallet user doesn't need to do anything else than to run Tor.I read the Tor setup documentation some time ago and I thought it was not that simple. There are other means to get you on Tor if the setup is not done right. I think SR is a proof of that statement.
But, who knows what other vulnerabilities a masternode may have?The wallet user doesn't need to do anything else than to run Tor.
Masternodes need to create hidden service and thats it. A masternode is not webserver which can do unpredicted shit and have sql injection vulnerabilities.
To deanonymize a hidden service you need a RCE or the hidden service must somehow willingly connect to clearnet without Tor or willingly send its IP address over to you.But, who knows what other vulnerabilities what a masternode may have?
I agree with moli, it would be great to have both, but I definitely rather option 1 than pushing everyone onto the tor network.I mean for a start how many users and masternode operators would be capable of such a move? I'm guessing not many even if the technical details are sorted out perfectly.I might be totally off here but I'm thinking if there's a way for Evan to create DRK own Tor hidden services, allow Masternode owners to have a choice to use Tor if they want anonymity, and also allow DRK users to have the same choice. It would be nice to have a network with both Tor-hidden-services and no-Tor-hidden-services mechanisms.