Which Masternode model should we implement?

MangledBlue

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If there could be a way for TOR or TOR like service to be implimented seamlessly without the user knowing about it - or I should say , without the user having to take a lesson in programming - I'd be all for it

DRK needs to be something my grand-mother can use, eventually

DRK >on
Send / Receive DRK
DRK >off
 
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darkstrike420

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I'm not sure why we're talking about TOR b/c TOR screams ANTI-ADOPTION by the masses
Face it. Darkcoin will never be ussed by masses. Only criminals and investors eyes catch Darkcoin.

If there could be a way for TOR or TOR like service to be implimented seamlessly without the user knowing about it - or I should say , without the user having to take a lesson in programming - I'd be all for it

DRK needs to be something my grand-mother can use, eventually

DRK >on
Send / Receive DRK
DRK >off
Using Tor is easier than using a cryptocurrency. You must be dropped on the head when u were born to be incapable of using Tor.

But ya.. Ur right. Adding Tor totally screams anti-adoption. You know what else screams anti-adoption? Anonymous money.

Open your eyes man. Darkcoin will be made illegal once all markets start using it. Darkcoin will only be associated with Dark markets. Ironically, Darkcoin - DarkMarket.

Look at it bro. The press and government are totally all over Bitcoin that it helps criminals and terrorists to launder money and shit. What will they say once they've heard about anonymous money man? Darkcoin helps criminals and terrorists, Bitcoin is just a piss in the sea compared to Darkcoin when it comes to illegal activities.

Evan was first to make instant transactions. Bitcoin will soon follow. Bitcoin will never add coinjoin at protocol level because anonymous money = no adoptation. Anonymous money = illegal. Anonymous money = crime.

Better make it the best crime e-cash you can so the price skyrockets and everyone has profited their balls off.
But saying Tor = no mass adoptation when it comes to anonymous cash is .. i won't comment.

Tor = more anonymity = more adoption to the who need anonymous cash = price skyrocket = profit $$$$$$$. Darkcoin needs to be as anonymous as possible at every perspective. Isn't that the only difference to Darkcoin from Bitcoin?

Having clearnet IP addresses all over the place definitely is not perfection. Think about the headlines.. "Not only no one can track your transactions but also no one even knows you're using it. That's how anonymous Darkcoin is". Doesn't it sound so fucking amazing?

TL;DR; (U rly should though) Those who need anonymous cash already know what is Tor and how to use it and are probably already using it.
 
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Lukas_Jackson

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Tor = more anonymity = more adoption to the who need anonymous cash = price skyrocket = profit $$$$$$$
You mean "to da moon"?
Oh please. I see red blinking lamp. Are you trying to captive somebody's minds? I think you already did. I am not sure about your intentions.
 

thelonecrouton

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Apr 15, 2014
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Face it. Darkcoin will never be ussed by masses. Only criminals and investors eyes catch Darkcoin.



Using Tor is easier than using a cryptocurrency. You must be dropped on the head when u were born to be incapable of using Tor.

But ya.. Ur right. Adding Tor totally screams anti-adoption. You know what else screams anti-adoption? Anonymous money.

Open your eyes man. Darkcoin will be made illegal once all markets start using it. Darkcoin will only be associated with Dark markets. Ironically, Darkcoin - DarkMarket.

Look at it bro. The press and government are totally all over Bitcoin that it helps criminals and terrorists to launder money and shit. What will they say once they've heard about anonymous money man? Darkcoin helps criminals and terrorists, Bitcoin is just a piss in the sea compared to Darkcoin when it comes to illegal activities.

Evan was first to make instant transactions. Bitcoin will soon follow. Bitcoin will never add coinjoin at protocol level because anonymous money = no adoptation. Anonymous money = illegal. Anonymous money = crime.

Better make it the best crime e-cash you can so the price skyrockets and everyone has profited their balls off.
But saying Tor = no mass adoptation when it comes to anonymous cash is .. i won't comment.

Tor = more anonymity = more adoption to the who need anonymous cash = price skyrocket = profit $$$$$$$. Darkcoin needs to be as anonymous as possible at every perspective. Isn't that the only difference to Darkcoin from Bitcoin?

Having clearnet IP addresses all over the place definitely is not perfection. Think about the headlines.. "Not only no one can track your transactions but also no one even knows you're using it. That's how anonymous Darkcoin is". Doesn't it sound so fucking amazing?

TL;DR; (U rly should though) Those who need anonymous cash already know what is Tor and how to use it and are probably already using it.
This post perfectly sums up why Darkcoin should avoid any association whatsoever with TOR and its pot-addled denizens like the plague.
 
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MangledBlue

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If your SO anti-DRK then why don't you sell all your DRK and move on

I just don't understand why you would put so much engery into something you see as a failure
 
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MangledBlue

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I still vote #1

1.) One node per IP.
-Higher cost to run a node
-Network will support more computing power
-Zero anonymity for masternode operators
-Much faster response time for Masternode tasks
-Support tasks on direct connection to masternode (Greater security for DS and other tasks like that).
-Highly resistant to DDOS (thousands of machines)
-Less centralization
-Supports Masternode Blinding
 

thelazier

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Dash Address
Xreiza1qGJMT5BpW6BDtRJqwtcBSxGwWYN
The wallet user doesn't need to do anything else than to run Tor.

Masternodes need to create hidden service and thats it. A masternode is not webserver which can do unpredicted shit and have sql injection vulnerabilities.
I think this can be done without waiting for new version. Just need some MN to create hidden service in TOR and list their address somewhere together, then TOR user can start their wallet and just connect to any selected MN's hidden service to make their most private transaction to MN.
Is this possible?
 

tungfa

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We are not aiming at dark markets. With tor it will be clear that this was our goal, which is not true.

I do not agree,
only because we would be having a presence in the Onion
does not mean we are aiming for DarkMarkets !

I think a good presence on TOR would give us much higher credibility in the "Anonymity Community".
(what we do NOT have at all in the moment)
There are many more things going on down there than just darkmarkes , drugs and sex !
Wistlbowers, Journalist, anonymous email, legit open markets, .....)
Anybody involved in Privacy or Anonymity has some affiliations with TOR.
DRK always stayed as far away from TOR as possible, and i think that really send a mix message
to our followers,newcomers and the crypto community.

I am not saying to move "everything" into the Onion
but we have to get our Tech 'affiliated and working' with TOR !
show a presence, check it out and we take it from there.

Edit:
we have to look at the bigger picture
isn't this about "Privacy in Finances"
well anybody who knows anything in this direction would ask
"Why are they not on / or affiliated with TOR"
 
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thelazier

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Dash Address
Xreiza1qGJMT5BpW6BDtRJqwtcBSxGwWYN
The wallet user doesn't need to do anything else than to run Tor.

Masternodes need to create hidden service and thats it. A masternode is not webserver which can do unpredicted shit and have sql injection vulnerabilities.
I think this can be done without waiting for new version. Just need some MN to create hidden service in TOR and list their address somewhere together, then TOR user can start their wallet and just connect to any selected MN's hidden service to make their most private transaction to MN.
Is this possible?
 

moli

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I'm not sure why we're talking about TOR b/c TOR screams ANTI-ADOPTION by the masses
You're not sure because you haven't followed the discussion from the beginning. Please read first before accusing someone as being a fudder. We are trying to figure out if Masternodes and Masternode owners can have anonymity. I am sure this has been on Evan's mind but it can't be implemented due to some other factors and the guys are just trying to brainstorm on the possibilities for Masternode anonymity. Get it?
 

strix

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Friends, (and I do not use the term lightly) this is proving to be one of the more interesting, and (IMO) important conversations we have had in a while. MB, I do not get the impression that DS420 is FUDing; and DS42, MB does not deserve insults either. We should be able to respectfully disagree--this is not DCT.

DS420, I am in agreement with you concerning the eventual fate of DRK in the eyes of the law, and in large measure, the court of public opinion. A number of you seem to think that this can be avoided if we will simply never mention the possibility of such use, and maybe even change the name. Rando, your optimism seems unbounded, and you seem genuinely shocked at the restrictions the powers place on freedom/privacy. I submit that the testimony of history is that freedom is an ideal more often died for, than enjoyed. Imams may proclaim peace, but ISS will grow. Jesus proclaimed "Turn the other cheek," but wars are still fought in his name. Folks here call for respect and still hurl insults. There is a darkness that haunts the hearts of men, and that stalks the halls of power; choose not to participate.

As a strix, I love the night and the privacy it brings to woo my wife in secret. Pure and blessed obscuring night is a wonder that refreshes and renders the dawn glorious and welcome. But there is a darkness that parades as light, and its power is growing in the world. Our coin is a threat to that power, and no name change or feigning of innocence will provide protection from it. As my king has declared (there, I said it!) we need to allow the wheat and tares to grow together, lest in pulling up the tares, we destroy the wheat. I await the harvest, when the fruit will make all things clear.

Yes, druggies, and pornographers, and terrorists will use DRK, and we need to make it as effective as possible for them to do so--in order that I and others like me (and better and more effective than me) can continue to work for justice. It is the elimination of justice that is the real goal of those out to eliminate DRK, but they will cite the petty criminals as their reason, and nothing we can do will change that. I should add that my advocacy of a name change is not so that the powers will look more favorably on DRK, but so those like me will be more inclined to adopt it in the fight for justice.

Option one or two--I don't know--but whichever is chosen, will I trust, be but an early step, in a long and difficult battle. Explore options... learn.

TL;DR--Be nice to each other, and learn from those you disagree with, as DRK supporters we have enough enemies already.
 

moli

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Woot!!! From IRC gitbot with love...
[21:45:59] <gitcow> [ darkcoin | master | elanaint | 3 days, 6 hours, 6 minutes ago ] a556508 Update tor.md
[21:46:00] <gitcow> [ darkcoin | master | elanaint | 3 days, 6 hours, 1 minute ago ] b6ac14c Update tor.md
[21:46:03] <gitcow> [ darkcoin | master | evan82 | 1 hour, 21 minutes ago ] 040528d Merge pull request #195 from elanaint/elanaint-tor-docs
Are we getting a new dev?
And check out http://tor.md/ "Future home of something quite cool." !
:D
 
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MyFarm

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Jan 24, 2015
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This sounds really good on paper. But scraping all masternode IP takes 1 second. It takes just as long to paste them in your botnet C&C. Starting ddos also takes 1 sec. Draining all masternode bandwidth(if not unlimited) would take a couple hours with medium size botnet. On compromised servers which with amplification get you at 400 Gbit/s(if you have 40x1Gbit/s servers and this is only with DNS amplification which gives you the smallest form of amplification at only 10x. There is also NTP, SSDP and countless others which much higher amplification rate) could destroy the whole masternode network within 20 minutes at zero cost and make the masternode operators pay a couple extra hundred(even thousand) dollars just for the overused bandwidth. If this doesn't sound bad, then read further... Most hosting services will nullroute you when you are hit by a large enough attack.

If masternodes were ran under an anonymizing network that totally destroys any kind of amplification. That makes DDOS much more expensive. If thats not enough then read further.. Running through an anonymizing network would require custom coded malware that support Tor/I2P DDoS attacks which I have not seen on any currently known black market.
Let's say I manage to purchase enough Darkcoin for 200 masternodes. I obviously know my masternode's IPs. Using your methodology, I then DDOS all the other masternodes so that the network only utilizes my 200 masternodes. Theoretically, I can then unmask Darksend transactions, yes?
 

MyFarm

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Jan 24, 2015
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Personally I would prefer option 2, for the following reasons:

Regarding 1):
- A dedicated IP does not guarantee less centralization and computing power, most run on cheap (possibly oversold) VPS servers with their preferred provider (centralized). A dedicated IP is probably an indication but will not guarantee it. Someone might choose a VPS with less resources but more IP's for cost considerations. Also considering IPv6 in the future this assumption will not hold. I think we should look at other mechanism to guarantee response times, like building redundancy in the protocol (don't let x% of unresponsive masternodes influence global response time) and a scoring system that may influence rewards (if at all possible).

Regarding 2):
- transparant support for dynamic IP's
- allow people to run the masternode on home PC: lower entry barrier, probably more resources available than VPS, but more volatile. We just need to make sure that unresponsive masternodes can be identified and eliminated quickly by the network and not influence global response time)

Basically, since we cannot guarantee responsiveness and robustness through the one node per IP requirement, I think we should let the network handle this. Just my 2 cents.
Regarding #2, Mr. Spread of Spreadcoin infamy supposedly coded into his masternode system a means to identify and score masternodes based upon response time. I don't know if it was working properly, but you guys may want to check out his code for some ideas.
 

tungfa

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Regarding #2, Mr. Spread of Spreadcoin infamy supposedly coded into his masternode system a means to identify and score masternodes based upon response time. I don't know if it was working properly, but you guys may want to check out his code for some ideas.
we do not mention the "Sp.." word up here !
+ offering a code of some Dev who disappeared on his crew and community is not really constructive or/and can not be trusted
 
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moli

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Regarding #2, Mr. Spread of Spreadcoin infamy supposedly coded into his masternode system a means to identify and score masternodes based upon response time. I don't know if it was working properly, but you guys may want to check out his code for some ideas.
Evan already answered your same question in BCT, so please stop bringing this up and stop talking about your coin as this isn't where you should do.
 
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MyFarm

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we do not mention the "Sp.." word up here !
+ offering a code of some Dev who disappeared on his crew and community is not really constructive or/and can not be trusted
Now that Spreadcoin is dead and I don't feel the need to act professionally and diplomatic, let me say that you're a fucking idiot and do more harm to Darkcoin than good.

Evan already answered your same question in BCT, so please stop bringing this up and stop talking about your coin as this isn't where you should do.
Spreadcoin is dead. I'm trying to help Darkcoin here. Despite disappearing for whatever reason, the analysts I had review the Spreadcoin code tell me Mr. Spread wrote some very elegant code. If some of it can be of use to Darkcoin, that would be wonderful.
 

tungfa

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I will just ignore that comment from above as this thread is too interesting to be sidetracked like that
 
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moli

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Now that Spreadcoin is dead and I don't feel the need to act professionally and diplomatic, let me say that you're a fucking idiot and do more harm to Darkcoin than good.



Spreadcoin is dead. I'm trying to help Darkcoin here.
Thanks, but no thanks.
 
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MyFarm

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Face it. Darkcoin will never be ussed by masses. Only criminals and investors eyes catch Darkcoin.
I fit the latter (investor). But I am investing because I believe that Darkcoin will be the 3rd billion dollar cryptocurrency. In order to do that, not only will Darkcoin need to accomplish its technology goals, but it will need to make some VERY SMART business moves to legitimize it. I think the developers of Darkcoin have the skill to get the technology where it needs to be. The question is, will they have the business acumen to make the right moves.

For the record, I think Ripple will be the second billion dollar cryptocurrency. Their technology isn't as good as Darkcoin's, but their business acumen is far superior.

Hopefully that will change, in time.
 

moli

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Now that Spreadcoin is dead and I don't feel the need to act professionally and diplomatic, let me say that you're a fucking idiot and do more harm to Darkcoin than good..
This post was reported.
DCT, vertoe, Lzeppelin, fernando , please take this person off the forum, he's not acting appropriately for any discussion here.
 
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Kong

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Almost nobody cares about anonymity if he has nothing to hide. See Facebook. "Something to hide" is not equal to immoral! In a few States of America you can buy weed, in other countries you must hide your identity to express your opinon. I think that the western world turns more and more to a world with a motto like: If you are not for us, than you are against us! This immoral attitude needs to get fought! http://europenews.dk/de/node/75386 Stop this!
 
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JGCMiner

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Jun 8, 2014
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People keep talking about DDOSing all the MNs like it is simple. Well if it is that simple then stop talking about it and DO IT!!! to prove your point.

As a community, I don't think we should even consider that attack vector until we see at least a 1/4 or so MNs get simultaneously knocked out. Otherwise, we are just wasting time on something that has a such minute chance of happening that it doesn't matter.
 

Kong

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Apr 9, 2014
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People keep talking about DDOSing all the MNs like it is simple. Well if it is that simple then stop talking about it and DO IT!!! to prove your point.

As a community, I don't think we should even consider that attack vector until we see at least a 1/4 or so MNs get simultaneously knocked out. Otherwise, we are just wasting time on something that has a such minute chance of happening that it doesn't matter.
Do it! See it as a test. Perhaps Darkred can help you ;) A medium botnet should not be too expensive to proof the resistance of the masternode network!
 

MyFarm

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Jan 24, 2015
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People keep talking about DDOSing all the MNs like it is simple. Well if it is that simple then stop talking about it and DO IT!!! to prove your point.

As a community, I don't think we should even consider that attack vector until we see at least a 1/4 or so MNs get simultaneously knocked out. Otherwise, we are just wasting time on something that has a such minute chance of happening that it doesn't matter.
You always want to be proactive. You can't protect against every potentiality, but the more you do protect against or at least have plans in case they happen, the better. In tech terms, Darkcoin is still in its infancy and fighting infantile trolls as its main battle. The more it grows up, the more grownup its' battles will be and the more the community and leadership team will have to mature.

Let's look at one of Darkcoin's competitors, Ripple. Look at the investors of that coin. These are battle hardened businessmen that have seen it all. They have been there, done that, and become very rich in the process. If you think that they're going to let a coin like Darkcoin simply pass them without one hell of a fight, you don't understand how the business world works.

Remember, the people do not run countries like the USA anymore. Corporations run by powerful businessmen do. If you think they're going to let a coin like Darkcoin upset their plans and threaten the status quo, you're kidding yourself. Darkcoin needs to identify these challenges and implement a very creative plan to overcome them.
 
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JGCMiner

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Do it! See it as a test. Perhaps Darkred can help you ;) A medium botnet should not be too expensive to proof the resistance of the masternode network!
I see little point in spending money to prove the resistance of a network against an attack that not yet affected that network even on a small scale.

My issue is with people who spout off attack vectors with a low probability of success or are otherwise properly dis-incentivized and waste everyone's time.