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Universal Dividend and Web of Trust for Dashcoin

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by demo, May 8, 2016.

?

Do you like a Universal Dividend and a Web of Trust to be incorporated in Dashcoin?

  1. yes for both

    5.2%
  2. yes for Universal Dividend

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. yes for Wev of Trust

    5.2%
  4. no

    82.8%
  5. other

    5.2%
  6. Lets vote with numbers

    1.7%
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  1. TheUltraaliens

    TheUltraaliens New Member

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  2. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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  3. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Of course equality is a fallacy.
    The fact that we are not equal eachother, the fact that you are a simple raganius and he is a nobel prize winner, how this fact can be used as an argument against basic income?
     
  4. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    the fact that he is a nobel prize scammer means nothing in relation to his ideas being valid ideas... BTW, an argument from authority is not enough when logic applies ;)
     
  5. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    And your argument against basic income is....?
     
  6. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    That it is a blatant lie the assertion that it will "solve" inequality. Actually this solution to inequality is one more of the rainbow and unicorns lies used by the marxists to enslave us even more :rolleyes:
     
  7. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Nobody said that the basic income will solve inequality. Not me, not even the nobel prize winner. So your argument is based on a wrong assumption. Basic income may reduce wealth inequality, but inequality is not going to be solved. Even after the basic income is implemented, you still remain a simple raganius, I still remain myself, and he still remains a nobel prize winner. We are not equal eachother. Not even equal in wealth, because I am sure that even after a basic income is implemented, the nobel prize winner could still earn much more wealth than you and me.
     
    #157 demo, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  8. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    [​IMG]

    :rolleyes:
     
  9. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Cant you understand the difference between "reducing inequality in wealth" and "solving inequality"?
    The basic income is about to reduce inequality in wealth, not solving inequality in general.

    And what is your problem with government intervention? Do you think that government should not intervene? If government do not intervenes, then how wealth is defined? Do you know that everything named as "wealth", is defined by your government?

    For example, your land, your money, and everything else you own, you own it because your government protects it. Because your government chases the people who are willing to steal it from you. You are highly dependant on government intervention, and all your wealth exists because of your govenment's existance and intervention.
     
    #159 demo, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  10. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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  11. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    So this is all your arguments? Just this picture?

    This is a forum, not a TV show. This is a place for arguments and not a place where we are competing eachother who will win the impression of the readers. We are not politicians, nor actors, nor advertisers. This is a forum, a place for arguments and not a place for pictures. Better go to instagram.
     
    #161 demo, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  12. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    Proof of Hoard + beyond scope of being a currency.

    If a girl says something dumb, and you try to correct/educate her, but she gets bitchy and accuses you of making her "feel" dumb... So, sweetie, you feel dumb because you are dumb. And, as long as you resist learning with dysfunctional shaming tactics, you'll stay that way.

    Two bad things put together doesn't make a good thing.

    Proof of service evolved from proof of hoard. You have to actually DO SOMETHING to get paid. Thus, 1000 DASH "bond" to run an MN. And that MN has to actually provide service, Service Score. Not merely squat on coins.

    Web of Trust has nothing to do with money. My credit card doesn't keep track of that. My Cash doesn't keep track of that. Sales venues keep track of that. Amazon feedback.eBay feedback. It's not the money's job to regulate this, and it never should be. Feedback can be, and is, abused, horribly. We don't need that subjective drama mess in the money. I don't sell on Amazon and eBay specifically because I don't need entitled retards talking shit just because they're too stupid to use the product properly. DASH is meant to be trustless, not an enforcer/tracker of retard opinions.
     
    #162 camosoul, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
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  13. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    Oh... I thought you were just pulling my leg after you said:
    I could never imagine these are your serious arguments :rolleyes:

    anyway... click on the image, follow the link... and try to save your soul...
     
  14. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    I see where you went wrong. You do not defend your own property, you eschew that responsibility to "government" to do it for you. You think everything comes from some faceless authority, and do not understand natural law.

    I live in the middle of nowhere and if I were a nancy retard that couldn't/wouldn't defend my own property/self, there's no Big Brother that could ever save me. This is why losers live in the city. They can't survive outside of city limits.

    The false premise upon which you base all of your argument is officially debunked.

    I own what I own because I paid for it, and because anyone who tries to take it will get shot in the fucking face. It does not descend from the table scraps of overlords.

    My wealth is a shitpile of Masternodes. Again, no government there, either. Anyone attempting to coerce my passwords will get shot in the fucking face. You couldn't even kidnap my son and ransom it, because he'd shoot you in the fucking face, too.
     
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  15. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Ok, ok. You dont want government at all. You are not talking seriously, are you?

    So let the government withdraw all its forces from the state's borders, and let everybody to arrive nearby your property. WIll you still have property then?

    Not only you will lose your property in that case, but maybe your life also, if you behave to the immigrants the way you describe. If your plan is to hide into the forest and take the scalp of the newcomers, let me remind you what the fate of the indians is. This is the fate of everyone who rejects civilization, cities and government. You are highly dependant on government's intervention. Even if you are living in the forest or desert outside the city, the government surveils the borders in order for your property to be protected from uncontrolled immigration. And you pay them for that with taxes.

    It is impossible to own any kind of property in the absense of government. You own something because the government defines it as a property, allows you to own it, and because it protects your ownership. And if you want to protect your ownership whithout refering or depend to any government, you cannot do it alone, you have to establish a community of people, be their governor and establish diplomatic relations with other governments in order to delimit the territory you control. So you have three choices, either to be a governor, or to be governed, or perish like a savage.

    Your government even protects your masternodes, in a network that it is highly protected from hackers. You dont dare to run your masternodes into the darknet, do you? You are using public ip adresses, arent you? And how the energy is produced for your masternodes to run? How the network is established in the physical layer? There is always a government that severily punishes theft and vandalism, thus prevents for the computer racks, for the solar panels, for the cables, for the pilars or for any other equipment to be vandalized or stolen.

    Your ignorance and your ingratitude on what the government and the civilization offers you, is hilarious.
     
    #165 demo, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  16. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Lets keep the history of this poll.

    Do you like a Universal Dividend and a Web of Trust to be incorporated in Dash coin?
    1. yes for both 1 vote(s) 2.4%
    2. yes for Universal Dividend 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    3. yes for Wev of Trust 1 vote(s) 2.4%
    4. no 36 vote(s) 87.8%
    5. other 2 vote(s) 4.9%
    6. Lets vote with numbers 1 vote(s) 2.4%
    This is another call for everyone to change their vote to "vote with numbers".
    This is a call for the majority to respect the minority.

    If you decide to respect minority and vote with numbers, then universal dividend is defined as:
    (1Χ100+37*0)/38= 2.63% of the budget.

    Your budget is 7449 dash.
     
    #166 demo, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  17. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    lol you're so funny!

    it's not like this is a monopoly of cryptocurrency.... if there is an "unsatisfied minority", they are free to fly away ;)
     
  18. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    So we are talking about 195 dash as universal dividend. Supposing you decide to cover all earth, then divide 195 with the population of the earth , about 7 billion people. So the basic income is defined to 0.00000003 dash.

    And you still dont want to give it! This is the definition of greed.

    And the definition of stupidity, because by giving such a few amount of dash, you turn dash popular, trendy, mainstream, nobel prize compliant, and attractive for many people to join it.

    But, as Einstein already said, stupidity is the most powerful force in the universe.
     
    #168 demo, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  19. rustycase

    rustycase Active Member

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    Wow ! Universal dividend ?
    How much can politics intrude into a payment mechanism ?
    This concept is perhaps utopian communism, or in the least, socialism.
    It would seem to a newbie such as myself that dividend is realized by anyone who holds DASH, makes use of it, and is able to see it grow stronger by such action.
    With actual use of DASH, we bring it closer to wide-spread acceptance and shall earn from our own personal efforts, in contradistinction to taking from others who have done meritorious work.
    Simple long term investment of fiat in the DASH cryptocoin increases market cap and makes it stronger, offering a dividend, should one decide to sell it off.
    What more could you reasonably ask for ?
    Best
    rc
     
  20. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    Yes, i agree that's not a huge amount... if that's all that's needed for your idea to become a reality, why don't you simply do it, instead of waiting for other people to be convinced?

    One of the problems of the world that are easy to be solved is "discourse"... people love to say beautiful words, and they seem to forget that words, alone, do nothing (in most of the cases, I guess). if people "acted", instead of "talked", so many things would be different.

    But it's so much more convenient to just make pretty speaches, instead of working...

    .. or did I understand it all wrong?

    Anyway... let me go to something else, more useful (like work), because I have got to solve "my own" inequality problems...
     
  21. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    My real goal is not to convince you about the universal dividend, it is to convince you to vote with numbers.

    How can I do it myself?

    It is not fun at all, if I only vote with numbers, and nobody else does.
     
  22. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    You can do it yourself by raising the funds (195 dash/month), whether it is through the budget system or through some other fundraising effort, and implement the system of how you want to distribute the universal dividend. Even though your ideas seem to be quite unpopular here, the fundraising would undoubtedly be the easy part relative to your project. I would suggest working on building the solution first.
     
  23. Voluntary

    Voluntary Member

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    Pop quiz: What is the value of free money?
     
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  24. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I think you didnt got me.

    The first step is not to raise the funds of 195 dash/month for the universal dividend. The first step is to convince the masternode owners to respect minorities and start voting with numbers. I cannot start implementing the basic income in dash, as long as it is not a democratic decision among masternodes onwers. If the masternodes owners do not want to vote with numbers and they insist in the yes/no answer, then I am not a dictator, neither I want to implement something in vain. I cannot even decide about this 195 dash/month number. I am not like Evan, I do not put hardcoded numbers into the system. As long as there is no theory behind this 195 number, this number should be voted once, and then should be voted again, and voted perpetually, in order to fulfill the needs and the will of the ever changing MO community.

    So the first question is about voting with numbers, and not about the universal dividend which is the second step.

    Here is my concluding question: Is voting with numbers a popular idea here in dash? Do you want to implement such a thing into the budget system? Do you like to be able to vote with numbers in the budget system, and not only allowed to cast a simple yes or no?

    I would like to ask you to fund this, but how can I put a question into the budget system so that the real masternode owners to answer? I am not a masternode owner myself, so I need for someone to put my question into the budget system. Is anyone available?
     
    #174 demo, May 30, 2016
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  25. noobtrader

    noobtrader Active Member

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    get a masternode or put up a real proposal... :p
     
  26. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    My proposal is real. Do you want the budget voting system to change, and MO to be able to vote also with numbers? This is the proposal.

    But I cannot ask that question to the real masternode owners. I need for someone to help me put that proposal into the budget system.
     
    #176 demo, May 30, 2016
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  27. TheUltraaliens

    TheUltraaliens New Member

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    I have come to the conclusion that the Dash Community is not ready for this.

    Maybe when another community realises that mirroring the current status quo within
    their ecosystem "stagnates" it but does not encourage progression.

    While all the new technologies provided by the upcoming "Evolution" are wonderful
    I have seen "NO" ideas on how to get people to use it. (apart from a shower of news articles)
    That had to happen with Bitcoin because crypto currency was a new thing back then.
    News articles as a strategy just creates more "Noise" to sift through. Especially when
    all they do is regurgitate information from dash.org.

    Time will tell and I will be waiting.
     
  28. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    Can I suggest The DAO? https://daohub.org <- this is the best place to play with democracy, voting, presidential elections and all the likes... DASH is still aims to be the perfect cash ( and this means MONEY), we are not intending to be a ballot for electronic voting (at least I hope... ;))
     
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  29. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    If this is the case, then what is this dash budget voting system about?
    If you dont like voting, and you are only the "perfect" cash, then why you have such a system incorporated?
    It may be your own personal hope to tottaly remove the budget voting system from dash , but it seems to me that this not everybodys will.
     
  30. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    well, as far as I could understand it, our voting system does not claim the power to decide the fate of humanity. It's a tool that aims to help administration of the budget, pure and simple.
     
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