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Universal Dividend and Web of Trust for Dashcoin

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by demo, May 8, 2016.

?

Do you like a Universal Dividend and a Web of Trust to be incorporated in Dashcoin?

  1. yes for both

    5.2%
  2. yes for Universal Dividend

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. yes for Wev of Trust

    5.2%
  4. no

    82.8%
  5. other

    5.2%
  6. Lets vote with numbers

    1.7%
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  1. Druid

    Druid New Member

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    That. Thank you, sir, for expressing my thoughts with words.
     
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  2. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    Getting closer. I think the scammer is still a problem because even if there is no "proposed amount", anyone with a proposal is incentivized to bribe masternode owners to vote 100% on their proposal. Makes for a very strange dynamic where the votes may be more driven by how much is being kicked back to the masternode owners in the short term, than the long term benefit to the network. It also does not solve the problem that in real life there are actual contracts for specific amounts of money. This will result in a glut of underfunded projects.

    In any case, I think you would do very well to separate your ideas out. You came into this thread going all gangbusters with web of trust, universal dividend and at the same time insisting that we change the protocol so that the way budgets are allocated, and the way the entire block reward is distributed are completely revamped in order for your idea to get funding. Take it one thing at a time. Right now in the current framework it appears you simply don't have enough support to get our people working on a universal dividend or to get a project like that funded, so I would recommend that you put this on the back burner. However the other questions about how the DGBB budget gets allocated among the proposals, and whether we can make the entire block reward allocation more dynamic, those are entirely different areas and should be talked about separately. You should also keep in mind that our project is still very young, and we really only have one core development team, and that development team still has more control over the vision for the project's future than you might have been led to believe by some of the hype about Dash's decentralized governance. The people who are actually programming and testing the protocol are also the ones who are most qualified to answer questions about technical feasibility. The best way to submit your ideas to the community is to clearly describe exactly what you are trying to accomplish and how, and in a way that is not antagonistic towards the development team.

    /ramble
     
  3. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I am not asking a fund for myself, or a fund for whoever is going to implement the universal dividend in dash code. I asked a fund for the universal dividend itself, a some to be allocated and to be given to the (future) persons who are going to claim they deserve that dividend. If a some for the dividend is allocated, then I (or someone else) may start implementing the code (for socialistic reasons, for sure).

    If the Masternode owners are only allowed to vote yes/no, and the majority rule is applied, then the universal dividend has no hope at all (taking into account the greed around here). But If the Masternode owners are allowed to vote with numbers, and the result is calculated with the average, then I hope someone to vote in favor of the universal dividend. Because I dont believe all MOs are greedy capitalists here, and because I believe that some MOs here are smart capitalists, and they understand that if they tottaly reject the universal dividend, this will be their fatal error and a catastrophic decision for dash. So in that case a small amount of universal dividend is going to be allocated.

    Thats why I changed my tactic, I changed my visible opinion. It is the games theory, applied.
     
    #213 demo, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
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  4. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    i think the community vote is VERY clear regarding this idea
    i think you should accept it, as you asked for it
    [​IMG]
     
  5. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    This is not the community of the Masternode Owners. This is just a hint of what the masternode owners may vote.

    if you are a bolshevik, you see a clear no in this vote result.
    But if you are not, you see 195 dash per month.
     
    #215 demo, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
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  6. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    If the universal dividend is going to be in the code itself, then the infrastructure would need to be coded *before* any funding happens, unless you are hiring a developer or developers specifically to implement it. Right now the Masternode owners are only allowed to vote yes/no, and this vote determines only how the budget is allocated, not what features get implemented in the protocol. If you want it to be any other way, then tackle that first. Personally I think changes to the way budgets are allocated, or the way the block reward is allocated, is within the realm of possibility because it has already been done before (eg. the introduction of masternodes, although I wouldn't expect any radical changes and certainly not overnight). And governance over project direction is a different subject as well, which is imo, your biggest problem, because right now ultimately if the development team does not want to build a feature or if they think it is not feasible, then no amount of voting will ever be able to fix that.
     
  7. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    I would be interested to see what the masternodes would vote if you can arrange a proposal :p I would guess it would be even more overwhelmingly "no" than the forum result.
     
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  8. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Of course not. We can also allocate an amount for the universal dividend, before creating the infrastructure. If this is the decision of the MOs, who is about to refuse it?

    But in order for a some to be allocated for the universal dividend, first we need to allow MOs to vote with numbers. There is a strong majority here against the dividend, so the Bolsheviks will never allow such a thing unless we make them vote with numbers.

    MOs may accept voting with numbers, because this affects not only the universal dividend (which is not important to them, who cares about 195 dash??), but also some other very important aspects, like their freedom for example.
     
    #218 demo, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  9. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    Why would we need to allocate an amount before creating the infrastructure? The only way to do that in the present framework would be for someone trusted to actually submit a proposal and collect/hold the funds. Or do you just want a vote on the issue (with no funding attached), to see what the masternode owners think? Either way, are you willing to fund the proposal? It costs 5 DASH to submit
     
  10. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    It is meaningles to spend 5 dash, just to see what a majority of capitalists thinks. I dont care what their majority think. I care about their minority.
    It is also meaningless to propose 195 dash for the universal dividend. 195 is a hypothetical number, based in the hypothesis that MOs are similar to the people voted here.

    But I would like to make a proposal for allowing the MOs to be able to vote with numbers. If they accept that proposal, then everything else follows.
     
    #220 demo, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
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  11. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    than put up a Proposal for a MN vote ?
    i am not sure what you are waiting for ?

    please keep the politics at bay over here :rolleyes:
     
  12. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    So you would like to make a proposal in order to determine to what extent the masternode owners agree or disagree with voting with numbers, correct?
    If that is the case, then I would recommend creating a proposal in a way such that it is in the form of a question, and it is very clear exactly what you mean when you are asking masternodes for a yea or nay on the subject. It will also cost 5 DASH to submit the proposal to the network, so are you willing to fund it?
     
  13. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Yes . But how can I pay with dash? I have no dash at all.
     
  14. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    It costs 5 DASH to submit a proposal to the network, so it would be up to you to get 5 DASH.
     
  15. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Can you point to a place where I can easily buy dash, while protecting my anonymity at the same time?
     
  16. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    You can try shapeshift.io, probably the easiest way if you want to trade for DASH with Bitcoin
     
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  17. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Thanks for the info. But unfortunately I have no bitcoin either. I have not any cryptocurrency. How can I buy a cryptocurrency, while protecting my anonymity at the same time?
     
  18. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    go to an ATM near u :rolleyes:
     
  19. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Is there a map of cryptocurrency ATMs? Where you can put cash and get cryptocurrencies?
     
  20. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    o_O
    How are you a crypto enthusiast without any crypto? Got any ether, anything?
    The most anonymous way to get bitcoin is at a bitcoin ATM, or using something like localbitcoins.com
     
  21. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I am not a crypto enthusiast, I am a universal dividend enthusiast and an anonymity enthusiast .
    localbitcoins.com seems nice, but it is not as anonymous as I would like.

    Is there a map of cryptocurrency ATMs? Where you can put your cash while masked, and get cryptocurrencies?
     
  22. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    Maybe use this? http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-atm-map/
    Idk if all bitcoin ATMs take cash, I would assume they do? I've never used one.

    Of course you could also buy bitcoin non-anonymously, then trade it for DASH and use PrivateSend in the Dash wallet to mix/anonymize your coins. So there'd be an electronic trail of you buying the bitcoin, but then if you use shapeshift and especially the privatesend in the dash wallet, no one will be able to tell if you still own the dash or what you spent the dash on.
     
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  23. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    Lamassu
    https://lamassu.is/maps/

    General BTM's map
    http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-atm-map/
     
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  24. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Thank you guys for the info. I ll get my masked suit, and I ll try to reach those ATMs.

    bye for now.
     
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  25. rustycase

    rustycase Active Member

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    Yes, yes, I know... don't feed the ******.

    I'm weak... can't resist.

    Classic words from a socialist quoted above... 'we can also allocate an amount...'
    An industrious person, on the other hand, would say, 'If I am able to do well, I will be able to help others.'

    All told, I'll need to check up on my definitions... Not so familiar with 'statism'.
    I've always thought fascism to be a merger of corporate powers and state authority, and I do feel we suffer from it's effects today.
    As a newbie it is readily apparent everyone holding DASH may vote.
    I am free to purchase as much as may be available, if impressed with the prospects.
    Of course I may sell if unhappy with some perceived discrepancy.
    And these acts may be accomplished with anonymity !

    May I pass on the champagne ?
    Make mine Stolichnaya, please.

    YMMV
    rc
     
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  26. rustycase

    rustycase Active Member

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    [​IMG]
    Waiting for the dividend !
     
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  27. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    There is no problem in that, because if a masternode owner votes 100% for a proposal, then he is forced to vote 0% for all the rest proposals. The scammer may bribe masternode owners to vote 100% on his proposal, but will a MO give this 100%? Of course not, because if a MO gives 100% to a proposal, then he has nothing else left to give to the other proposals.
     
  28. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    And those 5 dash go back to the budget, right?
    So we have 45%(=miners reward)+45%(=masternodes reward)+10%(=budget)
    But the budget is not only 10%, it is 10% + an amount arrived from the proposals fee.

    Correct?

    This 5 dash amount is also a number, it has obviously no theory behind, but can we vote on that number? A vote between 0 and all dash coins of the world makes no sense. So in order for a number to be be able to be voted, we must have at least 2 conditions.

    1) For a number to be able to be voted, the number must not have a theory behind. If it has, then we vote yes/no for the theory.
    2) For a number to be able to be voted, the number must be both up limited and down limited.

    maybe a third condition is also neccessary. I am thinking of it.
     
    #238 demo, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  29. halso

    halso Active Member

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    @demo

    Dude. No one is buying what you are selling.

    People are being polite, but they are just humoring you. Everyone is tired of your wacky ideas.

    No one agrees with you.

    You are turning into a pest.
     
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  30. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    You are right. I have to add a poll in this forum, in order to investigate whether the majority of MOs like to vote with numbers. In case the majority of the MOs dont like to be released from statism and from bolshevism, it is meaningless to propose to the budget and thus spend 5 dash for nothing.

    Of course voting with numbers is already an option in this poll. But I am the only one who voted it. I think I am going to add a new poll about voting with numbers, because I have a hope (a tiny one) that people didnt observe that alternative option, due to the title of the poll and due to the fact that this alternative option is added recently and not from the begining.

    And for historical reasons, lets take a snapshot of the current result.

    Do you like a Universal Dividend and a Web of Trust to be incorporated in Dashcoin?
    1. yes for both 1 vote(s) 2.3%
    2. yes for Universal Dividend 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    3. yes for Wev of Trust 1 vote(s) 2.3%
    4. no 39 vote(s) 88.6%
    5. other 2 vote(s) 4.5%
    6. Lets vote with numbers 1 vote(s) 2.3%
    and the people who voted "no" are:
    TanteStefana Stealth923 elbereth aleix splawik21 Lariondos tungfa yidakee UdjinM6 calnaughtonjnr acidburn crowning Raptor73 JGCMiner raganius AjM MangledBlue oaxaca TaoOfSatoshi bertlebbert HinnomTX bandidorl studioz camosoul Jeztah balu Macrochip kot noobtrader Vedran Yoweri TroyDASH Defacto Comodore amanda_b_johnson Druid chenriquelira Otaci rustycase halso
     
    #240 demo, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
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