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Universal Dividend and Web of Trust for Dashcoin

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by demo, May 8, 2016.

?

Do you like a Universal Dividend and a Web of Trust to be incorporated in Dashcoin?

  1. yes for both

    5.2%
  2. yes for Universal Dividend

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. yes for Wev of Trust

    5.2%
  4. no

    82.8%
  5. other

    5.2%
  6. Lets vote with numbers

    1.7%
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  1. TheUltraaliens

    TheUltraaliens New Member

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    Masternodes operators are incentivized

    Mining operators are incentivized

    This keeps the Dash Network operational 'from block-to-block' and does not guarantee it's future use.

    How do you guarantee Dash Networks continual future use? You make the Dash Networks most "Basic" primal function 'valuable'.

    Creating, Sending and receiving Private Secure messages/transactions faster than the competition.

    The Dash Network has accomplished this.

    How will Dash Network continue to accomplish this block-to-block? Give work to the masternode/mining operators.

    How? Via creating transactions. Who will do this? Dash Network users. Where are they?

    They need a reason to trust the Dash Software, install and run it.

    Why will they do this? Because we have fiat gateways? Because they read a paid for article in "Wall Street Journal", " BraveNewCoin", "reddit"?

    This does not work. If it did "Bitcoin" would be "The One". (We are seven years in)

    Dash Network requires something "Black Swan" to stand out now.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

    "Dash Network not only rewards masternode and mining operators but now incentives it's active users who can prove adding additional value to the Dash Network"

    The additional value could be social network outreach, introducing new users, video bloggs, blogs, art, music, sports sponsorship (Doge NASCAR).

    Et cetera....

    And for the users outreach they receive a "Basic Income", "Universal Credit", "Universal Dividend" or some magnetic phrase.

    Should a user wish to "Pay-It-Forward" into a Dash Network User Outreach Fund, so be it. This fund will attract new users and Network Operators.

    Maybe one day "in the future" a line on you resumè might read....

    "2018-2022 - Dash Network Operator"
    "2017-2018 - Dash Network Outreach"


    Back in a Dash

    @TheUltraaliens
     
    #91 TheUltraaliens, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
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  2. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I told you, you need a proof-of-individuality scheme in order to implement a basic income.

    This is either the Web-Of -Trust or you can use public keys issued by the states to their citizents.

    For example in EU, there is a law and every citizen can ask a public key from its EU state. So you can use that key to prove the individuality, in order to give a basic income in dash.

    Here is a list of states that issue digital credentials, that can be used by dash as proof of individuality.

    Proof of individuality can be used not only to provide a basic income, but also to give voting rights.
     
    #92 demo, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  3. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    @demo,

    I think it has become quite clear that you have presented your thoughts but have gained absolutely zero traction or interest by the community. While you're obviously quite passionate about your views, maybe you should consider another project that might best be suited for your views?

    For instance Auroracoin did an actual distribution to all the citizens of Iceland, based on their social security (or was it ID?) number. Maybe look for something similar? Lots of coins out there.

    Dash is all about the exact opposite of what you want. We don't want Proof of Individuality, we want Privacy and Anonymity. Individuality is the opposite, and the issuance of credentials, in our project, is absurd.

    With Evo, people will secure a username, not in the form of a proovable credential/identity, but in a form of self-secured ownership, just like private-keys, which can be concealed at will and remain private and anonymous. So maybe it's a good time to ponder if this is the right place for your efforts? I'm absolutely sure you'd gain a lot more following in other projects.

    Have you considered that? What exactly attracts you to Dash, if all we represent goes agains everything you believe in? We don't believe in free money, basic income, voting-rights-for-the-masses, credentials and/or proof of individuality.

    We're working on Privacy, Proof of Service, "Web-of-Trustless" existence, incetivised hard-work, and meritocratic / stake weighted voting distribution.

    Does that make sense? We all agree you don't like it, but it's what we're building.

    .
     
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  4. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    First of all, you are not working really hard on privacy, anonymity e.t.c. Many of you, you dont give a penny about anonymity and privacy...

    Why I am in dash? because I like anonymity and democracy. But at the same time I like basic income and symmetry in space-time, and I want to respect future generations.

    In order to have a basic income, a proof of individuality is required, but a proof of individuality is not necessarily against anonymity and privacy. You may of course use state's issued credentials to provide a basic income, but if you are in favor of anonymity, you may not used them and find other ways.

    A web-of-trust can be used to prove individuality, while respecting anonymity at the same time.

    Additionally cryptoparty assemblies can be used, in order to prove individuality whithout revealing identity. There is a scheme where people participate (bodily, physically) in a cryptoparty, and they put their public keys (printed in QR code) inside a physical ballot box. Then the ballot box opens, we count that the persons that participated are equal to the number of public keys extracted from the physical ballot box, everybody agrees that his public key is inside the list of public keys, and this list of public keys can be used for now on as a proof of individuality, while preserving anonymity at the same time. And of course a web of trust among those assemblies can also be established.

    So there are solutions if we want to have anonymity, privacy, democracy, proof-of-individuality and basic income at the same time. Thats why I am here, I am trying to join anonymity and privacy (dash's goals) and democracy (dash tends to it) with space-time symmetry and basic income (which you now detest, but future dash generation I hope they won't).
     
    #94 demo, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
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  5. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    @demo

    Ok dude, whatever.

    By the way, this is a message from some intergalactic space travelling buddies of mine. They came to me in a lucid dream and specifically asked me relay this message to you. They're from the future.

     
    #95 yidakee, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
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  6. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    So as not to be completely impolite with the OP, and being a physics lover, I'll be munching on this tonight to figure if there is any way quantum physics can generate free money without collapsing an economy, society in general and collective and individual human motivation.

    Maybe turn the CERN into a mega mining machine and use dark matter as the algo?

    If I manage it, I promise to call the tokens Banana Bosons

     
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  7. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Of course when everybody generates money, the economy collapses.

    The universal dividend is not about everybody to produce money. The universal dividend to have meaning it requires everybody to trust one type of money, and of course the total number of coins of this money should remain stable.

    But then we have to redistribute this money, in order to be fair and respect the future generations, that were not living or were not aware whenever the total amount of this money was mined. Those future generations in order to trust this one_and_only money, and do not start producing their own, they must be respected.

    The disrespect of the future is the flaw of bitcoin, of dash and of many other cryptocoins of today.
     
    #97 demo, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
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  8. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    man man
    everything ever mined is in the code !
    there is no hidden blockchain (as other coins have), with Dash everything is transparent as mentioned many of times
    the final and present number of coins is accessible, just do your research
    (try harder)
     
  9. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I know that. I know that the final and present number of dash coins is accesible and transparent. This is good. The total number of coins should be stable, in order for the economy to have a scarce value to refer to and to be based on. This is done in dash, and it is a good choice of the core team.

    The bad thing is that you mined a lot of dash, and future generations will not have equal chances to mine it. Of course the solution to this problem is not to make mining harder. You dont know how hard mining should be, because you cannot predict how many the newcomers will be. As long as you cannot predict the future, go on and mine almost all dash today, and then implement a basic income (from your budget) and give it to the new users that can prove their individuality, in order to reduce this unfairness.

    And I never said how much this basic income should be. I said vote for it, with numbers
    . So lets do a vote emulation and estimation, based on the spirit of the people who voted here.


    How much the basic income should be, as a percentage of the budget?
    1. 100% 2 vote(s) 5.7%
    2. 50% 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    3. 10% 1 vote(s) 2.9%
    4. 0% 31 vote(s) 88.6%
    5. other 1 vote(s) 2.9%

    So the basic income should be (2*100 + 1*10 + 31*0)/34 = 6.17% of the budget.

    So if you refuse as a community to be absolute and answering yes/no to the questions, and if you accept accuracy and answering with numbers and voting with numbers, then please commit 6.17% from your budget, and give it to the newcomers who can prove their individuality.

    It is a good thing for dash to do this, not a bad thing.
     
    #99 demo, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
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  10. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Thank you for the Dumb-bomb @demo - I feel much better now.
     
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  11. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    6 dumbs is not considered a dumb-bomb, taking also into account that you have 1722 messages posted. A 0.3% of your posts, this is not a dumb-bomb.

    A dumb-bomb is what I received by @chenriquelira.
    25% of your posts dumbed by a single user, this is a dumb-bomb.
     
    #101 demo, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  12. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Irac has 168,754 mi² ... 1 TNT bomb can destroy everything in 0,001 mi²

    0,001/168,754 = 0,00000592578546 %

    Does that mean bombs are harmless ?
     
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  13. kot

    kot Administrator
    Core Developer Dash Core Team Foundation Member Dash Support Group Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

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    I really admire your patience and persistence @yidakee ...
     
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  14. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    You should admire my patience , pation and persistence, when I am trying to bring light in your darkcoin, and your darkmind.

    Do you like a Universal Dividend and a Web of Trust to be incorporated in Dashcoin?
    1. yes for both 1 vote(s) 2.8%
    2. yes for Universal Dividend 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    3. yes for Wev of Trust 1 vote(s) 2.8%
    4. no 32 vote(s) 88.9%
    5. other 1 vote(s) 2.8%
    6. * Lets vote with numbers 1 vote(s) 2.8%
     
    #104 demo, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  15. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    If I give you 1000 Dashcoin, will you promise to stop? I am not kidding. If you promise, I swear I will give you 1000 Dashcoin.

    Completely 100% free Dashcoin, to do what you like with them. Post your address. I stake my entire reputation on it.

    .
     
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  16. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    nope. I dont need your darkcoin.
    but if , with you the help of voting, you turn it to a lightcoin, then I want the double.
     
  17. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Darkcoin no longer exists. So you do NOT want 1000 Dashcoin ? You do understand what you're missing out on right? Wow. You're crazy

    But sure, I'm game if you are. 2000 Dashcoins it is.

    .
     
    #107 yidakee, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
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  18. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I am not crazy. I do not invest in dead things.
    Turn your coin, with the help of voting, to an alive coin, then give me the double.
    Vote with numbers, and bring your coin back to life.
     
    #108 demo, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  19. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Hold on, you're confusing me.

    It was you that said Dashcoin all over this thread. Even just now once again you propose to vote on Dashcoin.
    So you don't really believe in anything, except in something that has already gained value. How does something gain value out of nothing?
    Following your logic, you should be more than happy with free Dashcoin. Who said anything about investing? I'm giving them away for free, like you want!

    I don't get it. You neural space-time asymmetry has gone in a parallel inverted phased existence.

    I though one had to vote with a hash key, secret paper, by hand, or clicking on a link or web-form option. How is it possible to vote with numbers? Numbers are amorph entities.

    .
     
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  20. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I told you what are my conditions and prerequisites, in order to accept your dashcoin, darkcoin or whatever else you want to give me.
    Vote with numbers.

    Voting is also an amorph entity. A voting exists, before the whole universe takes a form. Spirits, that are amorph entities, do vote. This vote is alternatively called prayer.
     
    #110 demo, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  21. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    @demo2 or even @demo3 ... come help your brother out, I think he forgot to take his medicine today

    So I offer to give you free coins, but you impose conditions and requisites for free money, that you previously requested, for free? Wow, you are a tough negotiator.

    I had already voted by the way. Check your conditions and requisites before hand. My offer is now off the table, unless you still want them, in that case, they're on the table again.

    Sort of like Shroedinger's cat. They are but they aren't on the table. If you look at them, they cease to exist. If you don't look at them, I'll make you a Dashcoin millionaire in your space-time asymmetry.

    Voting is not an amorph entity. Voting exists and is physical, with numerous means of expression. Numbers on the other hands, do not exists. They are a construct of human imagination to manipulate and quantify abstract notions. We give them a mere graphical representation. Romans use to do the same thing, despite the much lower spectrum.

    .
     
    #111 yidakee, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  22. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    When someone decides, a voting is made. Imagine for example the laws of universe. Someone decided about the laws of universe, he voted about them, before the universe is formed, before the big bang. So Voting is an amorph entity.
     
  23. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Wasn't "he" alone before the universe was formed ?
    Why on (unexistent-)earth would he propose to vote if "he" had 100% of voting distribution. "he" was a dictator the very least. He dictated to nothingness until something started to exist. I think that may be even the cause of the big-bang. He was so bored of dictating to nobody, his head exploded.

    .
     
  24. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    There are rumors that they were three before the big-bang, not just one. But their votes were unanimous. So those three are considered as one.
     
  25. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Maybe they were having javascript errors in the multiverse ? Well at least that, if it were the opposite I would be worried.
     
  26. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    No, no I am not talking about the multi-verse. I am talking about the first-verse. Before the first-verse, there was nothing, except those three, who voted and decided the laws of first-verse, of uni-verse and of multi-verse. Their vote was an amorph entity, because nothing existed, so voting is initially amorph. And they voted with numbers, thats why numbers are also amorph entities. This amorph vote still exists, and it is called prayer.
     
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  27. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Interesting.

    So... only after the bing bang did the first-verse become the nothing-verse, and our Universe became the actual verse. We're not entirely sure about the multi-verse as it is of yet only a theoretical concept. Maybe they live on free money and that's why we can't reach them?
    And the three entities voted not once, but three times, all at once in once unified vote, to decide upon the topology of verse-distribution. Very interesting ...

    Your space-time asymmetry is starting to make more sense to me now.

    .
     
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  28. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Before voting, the three of them also created a decision tree, which is also amorph. And they unanimously voted at once into this decision tree, in all its branches. A prayer is an amorph vote, that is applied into this amorph decision tree. This amorph decision tree, is also known as the knowledge tree.

    Human's erroneous vote at the knowledge tree, was the reason we fall from paradise, maybe because the vote between daemons vs angels it was a draw until then, and human's vote was the critical one. Erroneous pray-vote is still the reason we are away from paradise, because the majority of humans do not pray-vote well. But of course if your vote-pray is strong enough, you can create space-time assymetries in the universe, and reach closer to the paradise-verse.

    Unfortunately this close to paradise-verse do not last long because when the first human voted into the knowledge tree, he also decided he and his descendants to live into a universe where the majority are daemons. So however strong we pray, we may temporarily cause space-time assymetries in the deamon governed universe, but then the deamons realize that , they arrive in the specific branch of the tree, they vote against our pray, and the miracle is over. So humans cannot escape by themselves from this deamon governed universe, they need the help of the angels to do it.
     
    #118 demo, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
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  29. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Wow! The things I learn...

    These "entities" weren't by any chance monkeys, were they ?
    That would definitely explain the bananas.

    .
     
  30. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    No they were not monkeys. They were amorph logical beings. The first ones, and all the rest spiritual or material logical beings, are the result of their existence.
     
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