Proposal: open-source DASH gateway on Ripple

Will you fund this? Please, only MNO.

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 76.2%
  • No

    Votes: 3 14.3%
  • Abstain

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • Total voters
    21

akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
Proposal submitted at https://www.dashcentral.org/p/OpenSourceRippleGw

Overview:

This is a co-opetition proposal to Pre-Proposal: Create the first DASH gateway on Ripple.
When implemented, the deliverable would allow any interested party to establish a DASH gateway on Ripple, using reviewed open-source code, thus creating more versatile value proposition to Ripple users and increase DASH exposure.

Scope and Deliverables:
We will deliver:
  1. Open source code that would allow
    1. automated DASH deposit and withdrawal
    2. trading against any currencies, issued on the Ripple network
    3. provable reserves
    4. maintaining Ripple Network ID with no KYC requirements.
  2. Working gateway with no KYC as a proof-of-concept. Further gateway operation might be funded either from fees or by DASH network (a separate proposal).
Execution and Schedule:
DASH gateway implementation would take up to 6 weeks and will be done in the highly iterative manner: as soon as feature would be implemented, it would be deployed onto staging server for public testing. Staging server would operate on the DASH testnet.
We will keep the community updated via communication on forum and at least weekly formal project updates.

About me and my team:
My name is Andriy Khavryuchenko and my identity could be confirmed by @balu and @dmitriybtc (I've met in person with both). Also I've communicated frequently with @tungfa from the very beginning.

I'm active software developer for over 25 years and for last 15 years I develop mainly in Python. I've started a completely distributed software development company 42 Coffee Cups in 2008, with focus on Python/Django for web. We've worked in cryptocurrency projects since 2013, mostly on Ripple ledger. Unfortunately, none of these startups matured to a real product, yet we actively use the Ripple stack internally. I'm in DASH since late 2014 (you can track my posts on the forum).

Amount requested:
131 DASH ($10000 / 76.095 SMA30 DASH/USD rate rounded) + 5 DASH proposal fee. Totally 136DASH.

Given the 30 day average price will change at the proposal submission time, we will change the amount respectively. Since 42 Coffee Cups charges only for time actually spent, if the DASH price would change during the development, any unused funds will be used to provide initial liquidity on the Rippe DEX.

Update:

Proposal submitted at https://www.dashcentral.org/p/OpenSourceRippleGw

Amount requested changed from 136 to 134 Dash to account for the deflation.

Vote yes
Code:
gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding yes
Vote no
Code:
gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding no
Vote abstain
Code:
gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding abstain
 
Last edited:
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Kevin Stalker

Member
Feb 18, 2017
117
30
78
I will be interested to see what other people say, but from I read here I expect to vote yes. It seems like the price is realistic given what you are delivering.
 
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Apr 24, 2017
132
29
78
49
Italy
pietrosperoni.it
Dash Address
XsSU7489b1N3F2JCiJ6guBCk1cYuxAEhBQ
Sounds like a really interesting proposal. I voted yes. But also for me I am not knowledgeable enough to know if there is any problem. So if there is no problem arising I will absolutely support it.
 
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jimbursch

Active Member
Mar 5, 2017
837
499
133
56
For Dash, getting competitive proposals such as this is fantastic -- everyone will up their game and we all benefit.

For those of us who are weak on our knowledge of Ripple and how it can help us as Dash users, can you point us to more information about Ripple? Perhaps a YouTube video or a good tutorial that you recommend.
 
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akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
For those of us who are weak on our knowledge of Ripple and how it can help us as Dash users, can you point us to more information about Ripple? Perhaps a YouTube video or a good tutorial that you recommend.
The wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment_protocol)

Company behind this: https://ripple.com/
Note that current company's vision is different from the original ripplepay and it's focusing more on a banking market.

Simple video, explaining the idea for banks:

Or how early client worked:

Hope that helps
 

tungfa

Administrator
Dash Core Team
Moderator
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Apr 9, 2014
8,972
6,740
1,283
Overview:
This is a co-opetition proposal to Pre-Proposal: Create the first DASH gateway on Ripple.
When implemented, the deliverable would allow any interested party to establish a DASH gateway on Ripple, using reviewed open-source code, thus creating more versatile value proposition to Ripple users and increase DASH exposure.

Scope and Deliverables:
We will deliver:
  1. Open source code that would allow
    1. automated DASH deposit and withdrawal
    2. trading against any currencies, issued on the Ripple network
    3. provable reserves
    4. maintaining Ripple Network ID with no KYC requirements.
  2. Working gateway with no KYC as a proof-of-concept. Further gateway operation might be funded either from fees or by DASH network (a separate proposal).
Execution and Schedule:
DASH gateway implementation would take up to 6 weeks and will be done in the highly iterative manner: as soon as feature would be implemented, it would be deployed onto staging server for public testing. Staging server would operate on the DASH testnet.
We will keep the community updated via communication on forum and at least weekly formal project updates.

About me and my team:
My name is Andriy Khavryuchenko and my identity could be confirmed by @balu and @dmitriybtc (I've met in person with both). Also I've communicated frequently with @tungfa from the very beginning.

I'm active software developer for over 25 years and for last 15 years I develop mainly in Python. I've started a completely distributed software development company 42 Coffee Cups in 2008, with focus on Python/Django for web. We've worked in cryptocurrency projects since 2013, mostly on Ripple ledger. Unfortunately, none of these startups matured to a real product, yet we actively use the Ripple stack internally. I'm in DASH since late 2014 (you can track my posts on the forum).

Amount requested:
131 DASH ($10000 / 76.095 SMA30 DASH/USD rate rounded) + 5 DASH proposal fee. Totally 136DASH.

Given the 30 day average price will change at the proposal submission time, we will change the amount respectively. Since 42 Coffee Cups charges only for time actually spent, if the DASH price would change during the development, any unused funds will be used to provide initial liquidity on the Rippe DEX.
can confirm akhavr
i know him since ages (darkcoin days ), clever as a whip , always open for professional comments and communication , pro coder and trusted guy ! never ran into any problems there :)
 

Nick

New Member
Mar 29, 2017
36
9
8
30
Any reason we're choosing a for profit corporation whose software was designed for banks over Stellar's platform which is nonprofit and focused more on individuals?

What about openledger?
 
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akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
Any reason we're choosing a for profit corporation whose software was designed for banks over Stellar's platform which is nonprofit and focused more on individuals?
Because we're focusing on the network, not the corp? Right now Ripple network has a wide choice of established fiat and crypto gateways that are in operation for years. For example, BitStamp.

Stellar is more like original Ripple's vision (which I like more, frankly). I don't think there would be major issues porting the gateway code to stellar network, since they forked from the same codebase.

Bottom line: ripple gateway would give us access to more users and more volume right away. Stellar gateway would be an easy add-on.

What about openledger?
Haven't done any projects there, can't comment. I feel OpenLedger tech is great, but somehow they are failing at BDSM for years :(
 

dmitriybtc

Active Member
Mar 11, 2017
106
104
93
Nice proposal, and yeah I can absolutely confirm that @akhavr is really great and smart person.

During one of our meetups we had quite interesting conversations, and he also helped a lot.
 

akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
Proposal submitted at https://www.dashcentral.org/p/OpenSourceRippleGw

Amount requested changed from 136 to 134 Dash to account for the deflation.

Vote yes
Code:
gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding yes
Vote no
Code:
gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding no
Vote abstain
Code:
gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding abstain
Of course, I would appreciate yes votes :)
 
Apr 23, 2017
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How would this work ?

Ripple is a close network yet you claim than you can setup a transparent open-source node for all the use ?
Who becomes the owner of this node an how collects the fee's from running this node aka gateway ?
 

akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
Ripple is a close network yet you claim than you can setup a transparent open-source node for all the use ?
Ripple is not a closed network. Anyone can run a node, anyone can run a client. We run both, you can go and register at http://app.p2pay.com/ which hosts a (somewhat broken) copy of an originall ripple client.

Who becomes the owner of this node an how collects the fee's from running this node aka gateway ?
Anyone who would start a copy of the open source code. If the reference node would be supported by the Dash MNO, we won't collect fees for our node. In any case, it's up to the owner of the gateway to decide.
 

babkjl

New Member
May 11, 2017
1
0
1
56
I think there is a serious problem with the Know Your Customer requirements. Ripple was heavily fined in 2015 for failing to properly implement KYC rules and made significant changes to comply. I don't see how these requirements can be circumvented without getting into serious legal issues. Ripple is full of banks who are fully complying with KYC and would probably somehow block anonymous access for non compliance. As far as I know, Stellar (a Ripple fork) is not compliant with KYC and would probably be a better network for this open source code. As I might have my facts wrong, feel free to correct me. Thanks.
 

akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
Ripple was heavily fined in 2015 for failing to properly implement KYC rules and made significant changes to comply.
They were fined for assisting in sale of their XRP stash w/o reporting it to three-letter agencies. Not for operating a gateway.

I don't see how these requirements can be circumvented without getting into serious legal issues. Ripple is full of banks who are fully complying with KYC and would probably somehow block anonymous access for non compliance.
Well, as soon as Ripple validators would start censor transactions, they would have much bigger issues with their network usage: no bank would like to have its transactions to be reviewed by any third-party before posting them on the ledger.

That's why, btw, my proposal focuses on creating a software, not a gateway operation.

As far as I know, Stellar (a Ripple fork) is not compliant with KYC and would probably be a better network for this open source code. As I might have my facts wrong, feel free to correct me. Thanks.
Stellar is less popular than Ripple. It would be quite easy to adapt the open source dash gateway from ripple to stellar.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Ripple is not a closed network. Anyone can run a node, anyone can run a client.
In any case, it's up to the owner of the gateway to decide.
Maybe I am missing something here, but if anybody can run a node why do we need to invest into the project ?
I myself could not find the software to run my own full node on my own pc, the link you provided does not their.

Also the use of Gateway is very confusion (intentionally i wonder?) I think when your talking about a Gateway you mean exchange, which KYC and AML, When I talk about a gateway, I meant become a full (trusted) node on the Ripple network, and become sort of a wallet to users, without AML and KYC, which could charge users for transactions and so forth.
 

akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
Maybe I am missing something here, but if anybody can run a node why do we need to invest into the project ?
Because a ripple node (rippled) is not a full-featured gateway you can run out of the box?

I myself could not find the software to run my own full node on my own pc, the link you provided does not their.
Sorry, I don't understand you here. You can get rippled here https://github.com/ripple/rippled Beware of resources it consumes, but if you've got a decent server, it's pretty straighforward.

If you're not talking about rippled, what "node software" are you talking about?

Also the use of Gateway is very confusion (intentionally i wonder?) I think when your talking about a Gateway you mean exchange, which KYC and AML,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment_protocol)#Gateways
A gateway is any person or organization that enables users to put money into and take money out of Ripple's liquidity pool. A gateway accepts currency deposits from users and issues balances into Ripple's distributed ledger. Furthermore, gateways redeem ledger balances against the deposits they hold when currency is withdrawn. In practice, gateways are similar to banks, yet they share one global ledger known as the Ripple protocol.
So, no, I don't mean an exchange. When I'm talking about ripple gateway, I'm talking about ripple gateway.

When I talk about a gateway, I meant become a full (trusted) node on the Ripple network, and become sort of a wallet to users, without AML and KYC, which could charge users for transactions and so forth.
Ripple full node, ripple wallet, and ripple gateway are three different things.

I would be glad to answer your question when I understand it. So far, I don't.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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I don't know if your attempting to discreet me or anything but you have not answered any of my questions.

A quote form the wikipage you posted:

Gateways[edit]
A gateway is any person or organization that enables users to put money into and take money out of Ripple's liquidity pool.[2] A gateway accepts currency deposits from users and issues balances into Ripple's distributed ledger. Furthermore, gateways redeem ledger balances against the deposits they hold when currency is withdrawn. In practice, gateways are similar to banks, yet they share one global ledger known as the Ripple protocol. Depending on the type and degree of interaction a user has with a gateway, the gateway may have anti-money laundering (AML) or know your customer (KYC) policies requiring verification of identification, address, nationality, etc. to prevent criminal activity.[5] Popular gateways as of 2017 included Bitstamp, Gatehub, Ripple Fox, Tokyo JPY, Mr. Ripple, RippleChina and The Rock Trading.[8
That's what I said, a gateway is a fancy word for an exchange, as you only get (full) access once you complied with KYC/AML. I find the whole line of talking very dishonest.

Second point is your say your going to setup a open-source-dash-gateway-on-ripple

Question 1a)
Now I am asking how can this be ? Seeing Gateway's can only become gateway's once ripple labs allows them entry.
Question 1b)
If anybody could do it why are their so few Ripple Gateways ?
Question 1c)
IF it is possible to setup an open-source-dash-gateway-on-ripple, than why should you be the owner of it ? If you build it you should give the finished product to the DASH-holders, so we can use it as we please

Question 2) How do I install a full node wallet on my pc ? And does such full node actually work, can it actually receive send, import and export private key's. Maybe I am missing something here but I have not found a decent installer for it, why is that ? what so different about ripple that they can't make installer than be used on Windows/Linux and OSX. I mean every other coin can do it even coins with little to no budget at all.
 

akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
That's what I said, a gateway is a fancy word for an exchange, as you only get (full) access once you complied with KYC/AML.
No.

I find the whole line of talking very dishonest.
You can find whatever you'd like, it doesn't change the way code works.

Now I am asking how can this be ? Seeing Gateway's can only become gateway's once ripple labs allows them entry.
No.

If anybody could do it why are their so few Ripple Gateways ?
Because noone cares until XRP is pumped 100x?

IF it is possible to setup an open-source-dash-gateway-on-ripple, than why should you be the owner of it ? If you build it you should give the finished product to the DASH-holders, so we can use it as we please
I should not be the owner of it. We will operate a reference implementation if the remainder of budget will allow. After this, we'll decide if charge a fee or ask Dash MNO for a support. If decision would be "no" for both questions, we will shut down the gateway and return all the funds.

Question 2) How do I install a full node wallet on my pc ?
Are you asking for a free consulation? I usually charge a fee for that.

And does such full node actually work
It works for me since late 2013.

can it actually receive send, import and export private key's
Node does not send, import, or export private keys. Wallet does. And yes, open source wallet can do all three.

Maybe I am missing something here but I have not found a decent installer for it, why is that ? what so different about ripple that they can't make installer than be used on Windows/Linux and OSX. I mean every other coin can do it even coins with little to no budget at all.
Ask https://ripple.com/ ?
 
Apr 23, 2017
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It's not my attempt to troll you here, and your obviously very knowledgeable about these matters. But most masternode owners or are not.
But it's very clear to me that Ripple aims to works to replace settlement networks, via the use of an open transparent ledger. With different benefits for different party's.

And now we have a business ask use to fork over 15k USD for intergation, at the same time they already added something such as REP for FREE !!!
I find this insulting to ask DASH masternode owners for a handout, especially seeing, dash it's codebase is based on bitcoin, which should make it not that hard to implement other than (instant sent).

Now you are aligning yourself with them by saying "This is a co-opetition proposal to Pre-Proposal: Create the first DASH gateway on Ripple."
Just to be clear:
DEFINITION of 'Coopetition'
Coopetition is the act of cooperation between competing companies; businesses that engage in both competition and cooperation are said to be in coopetition.

Read more: Coopetition http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/coopetition.asp#ixzz4gtYXS6O5
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook
Perhaps I miss interpret your meaning here, but cooperating with them, is already a no go for me. If you meant you have competing offer on the table than that would 180 degree difference to me personally. It should be a bit more clear do how becomes the owner of the code you will write.

(I voted no with my MN votes on them, I have not yet voted on this one yet)
 

akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
It's not a competition proposal, since it has no "either-or" clause.

Actually, if both proposal will get implemented, both ripple ledger and dash would win. That's why "coopetiion": both proposals are competing for the limited budget, yet implementation of both proposals would bring more benefit for the community. First thing that comes to mind: GateHub is a marketing/sales/onramp channel for (claimed, I've not personally verified it) 100k users, but they are closed source. This proposal gives access to zero existing users, but has more potential since it provides an open source solution.

Given both will be implemented, anyone would be able to set up an open, free, ripple gateway and get a tap on gatehub's users via Ripple's DEX.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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First thing that comes to mind: GateHub is a marketing/sales/onramp channel for (claimed, I've not personally verified it) 100k users
I have my doubt's as well about their claims.

Given both will be implemented, anyone would be able to set up an open, free, ripple gateway and get a tap on gatehub's users via Ripple's DEX.
Nope, heavily disagree DASH should build it's own version of Gatehub's exchange/gateway.

Would you be able to do that ?
 

AnarchicCluster

Active Member
Dec 22, 2014
399
408
133
Dash Address
XgJkzjmW1onXH8EsaaZakN1GswjjnAYhUE
Would you be able to do that ?
I think that's what he is planning. He wants to build an open source software so anyone can run such gateway.
Akhavr said in his first post:
Working gateway with no KYC as a proof-of-concept. Further gateway operation might be funded either from fees or by DASH network (a separate proposal).
So I am assuming that, yes, he wants to run such node, either with fees or without fees but subsidised by Masternodes.
 
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akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
Nope, heavily disagree DASH should build it's own version of Gatehub's exchange/gateway.

Would you be able to do that ?
Not quite like theirs. More open, versative and without KYC and AML. If that would require go dark (on Tor), it will go dark :)

And it all would be open source.

If anyone would like to use the code to establish regulated gateway - I would welcome it.
 

akhavr

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
758
376
133
@akhavr Hey got an update on how things are going?
Frankly, I'm a bit stuck, since I can put much less of my own time than I've expected.

Here's the screencast status from month ago. https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ge72hwllupzjiv/Dash-Ripple Gateway Report 2017.06.15.mp4?dl=0 I'm trying to push team harder, but ICO project sucked anyone likely to be competent from the market (including from 42 Coffee Cups team).

Hopefully soon I'll be able to upload another screencast report, presenting a version, operating on the testnet.
 

tungfa

Administrator
Dash Core Team
Moderator
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Apr 9, 2014
8,972
6,740
1,283
Short update.

Due to an unfortunate course of events (mostly personal, I've communicated them with @tungfa ), this project is got severely delayed.

Yet,
  1. I will definitely deliver it before the end of the year
  2. Until the delivery, funds didn't, aren't, and wouldn't move as anyone can check on https://explorer.dash.org/address/Xb5aFKNfx6itExgSsq29bpzi1ujXnHDS3n
Feel free to ask questions.
yes can confirm
i have been in touch with akhavr multi times reg this
he asked me to hold / escrow the coins (transparency)
i needed to refuse (to not be personal involved with proposals) so i am happy (as agreed) he posted the explorer address and we can all see coins are save and untouched
the deal is 2-3 month and this should be sorted / deliver
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,114
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Short update.

Due to an unfortunate course of events (mostly personal, I've communicated them with @tungfa ), this project is got severely delayed.

Yet,
  1. I will definitely deliver it before the end of the year
  2. Until the delivery, funds didn't, aren't, and wouldn't move as anyone can check on https://explorer.dash.org/address/Xb5aFKNfx6itExgSsq29bpzi1ujXnHDS3n
Feel free to ask questions.
Oh no! Not again! Not another lamassu! Not another developer's wife got pregnant!

Dash community doesnt care about your personal events.
If you are unable to deliver the project, then the money should be given to the one who will be capable to deliver this open source project.
Of course whatever it will be delivered should meet the specifications you set, and your opinion should be heard about it.

Unfortunately all the above require a governance decision to be taken by the masternodes, for this and for any other project in the futture.
But governance questions are expensive, and nobody will ask a question like this to the masternodes in order to create a law.
Because stupids and spies bought masternodes in order to stop governance.

I think this will be my next preproposal
 
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