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Proposal: open-source DASH gateway on Ripple

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by akhavr, May 5, 2017.

?

Will you fund this? Please, only MNO.

  1. Yes

    16 vote(s)
    76.2%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. Abstain

    2 vote(s)
    9.5%
  1. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Proposal submitted at https://www.dashcentral.org/p/OpenSourceRippleGw

    Overview:

    This is a co-opetition proposal to Pre-Proposal: Create the first DASH gateway on Ripple.
    When implemented, the deliverable would allow any interested party to establish a DASH gateway on Ripple, using reviewed open-source code, thus creating more versatile value proposition to Ripple users and increase DASH exposure.

    Scope and Deliverables:
    We will deliver:
    1. Open source code that would allow
      1. automated DASH deposit and withdrawal
      2. trading against any currencies, issued on the Ripple network
      3. provable reserves
      4. maintaining Ripple Network ID with no KYC requirements.
    2. Working gateway with no KYC as a proof-of-concept. Further gateway operation might be funded either from fees or by DASH network (a separate proposal).
    Execution and Schedule:
    DASH gateway implementation would take up to 6 weeks and will be done in the highly iterative manner: as soon as feature would be implemented, it would be deployed onto staging server for public testing. Staging server would operate on the DASH testnet.
    We will keep the community updated via communication on forum and at least weekly formal project updates.

    About me and my team:
    My name is Andriy Khavryuchenko and my identity could be confirmed by @balu and @dmitriybtc (I've met in person with both). Also I've communicated frequently with @tungfa from the very beginning.

    I'm active software developer for over 25 years and for last 15 years I develop mainly in Python. I've started a completely distributed software development company 42 Coffee Cups in 2008, with focus on Python/Django for web. We've worked in cryptocurrency projects since 2013, mostly on Ripple ledger. Unfortunately, none of these startups matured to a real product, yet we actively use the Ripple stack internally. I'm in DASH since late 2014 (you can track my posts on the forum).

    Amount requested:
    131 DASH ($10000 / 76.095 SMA30 DASH/USD rate rounded) + 5 DASH proposal fee. Totally 136DASH.

    Given the 30 day average price will change at the proposal submission time, we will change the amount respectively. Since 42 Coffee Cups charges only for time actually spent, if the DASH price would change during the development, any unused funds will be used to provide initial liquidity on the Rippe DEX.

    Update:

    Proposal submitted at https://www.dashcentral.org/p/OpenSourceRippleGw

    Amount requested changed from 136 to 134 Dash to account for the deflation.

    Vote yes
    Code:
    gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding yes
    Vote no
    Code:
    gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding no
    Vote abstain
    Code:
    gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding abstain
     
    #1 akhavr, May 5, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Kevin Stalker

    Kevin Stalker Member

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    I will be interested to see what other people say, but from I read here I expect to vote yes. It seems like the price is realistic given what you are delivering.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Pietro Speroni

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    Sounds like a really interesting proposal. I voted yes. But also for me I am not knowledgeable enough to know if there is any problem. So if there is no problem arising I will absolutely support it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    I've responded here on the compatability of my proposal and the proposal by @ggololicic
     
  5. jimbursch

    jimbursch Active Member

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    For Dash, getting competitive proposals such as this is fantastic -- everyone will up their game and we all benefit.

    For those of us who are weak on our knowledge of Ripple and how it can help us as Dash users, can you point us to more information about Ripple? Perhaps a YouTube video or a good tutorial that you recommend.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    The wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment_protocol)

    Company behind this: https://ripple.com/
    Note that current company's vision is different from the original ripplepay and it's focusing more on a banking market.

    Simple video, explaining the idea for banks:

    Or how early client worked:

    Hope that helps
     
  7. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

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    can confirm akhavr
    i know him since ages (darkcoin days ), clever as a whip , always open for professional comments and communication , pro coder and trusted guy ! never ran into any problems there :)
     
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  8. Nick

    Nick New Member

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    Any reason we're choosing a for profit corporation whose software was designed for banks over Stellar's platform which is nonprofit and focused more on individuals?

    What about openledger?
     
    #8 Nick, May 6, 2017
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  9. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Because we're focusing on the network, not the corp? Right now Ripple network has a wide choice of established fiat and crypto gateways that are in operation for years. For example, BitStamp.

    Stellar is more like original Ripple's vision (which I like more, frankly). I don't think there would be major issues porting the gateway code to stellar network, since they forked from the same codebase.

    Bottom line: ripple gateway would give us access to more users and more volume right away. Stellar gateway would be an easy add-on.

    Haven't done any projects there, can't comment. I feel OpenLedger tech is great, but somehow they are failing at BDSM for years :(
     
  10. dmitriybtc

    dmitriybtc Active Member

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    Nice proposal, and yeah I can absolutely confirm that @akhavr is really great and smart person.

    During one of our meetups we had quite interesting conversations, and he also helped a lot.
     
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  11. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Proposal submitted at https://www.dashcentral.org/p/OpenSourceRippleGw

    Amount requested changed from 136 to 134 Dash to account for the deflation.

    Vote yes
    Code:
    gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding yes
    Vote no
    Code:
    gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding no
    Vote abstain
    Code:
    gobject vote-many 22d5e59504fb867cd3e598c4424313885e5c7fd98a03dff492b99cdd66f02333 funding abstain
    Of course, I would appreciate yes votes :)
     
  12. The philosofers coin

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    How would this work ?

    Ripple is a close network yet you claim than you can setup a transparent open-source node for all the use ?
    Who becomes the owner of this node an how collects the fee's from running this node aka gateway ?
     
  13. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Ripple is not a closed network. Anyone can run a node, anyone can run a client. We run both, you can go and register at http://app.p2pay.com/ which hosts a (somewhat broken) copy of an originall ripple client.

    Anyone who would start a copy of the open source code. If the reference node would be supported by the Dash MNO, we won't collect fees for our node. In any case, it's up to the owner of the gateway to decide.
     
  14. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    BTW, we're already started the development process. Expect first status report next week.
     
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  15. babkjl

    babkjl New Member

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    I think there is a serious problem with the Know Your Customer requirements. Ripple was heavily fined in 2015 for failing to properly implement KYC rules and made significant changes to comply. I don't see how these requirements can be circumvented without getting into serious legal issues. Ripple is full of banks who are fully complying with KYC and would probably somehow block anonymous access for non compliance. As far as I know, Stellar (a Ripple fork) is not compliant with KYC and would probably be a better network for this open source code. As I might have my facts wrong, feel free to correct me. Thanks.
     
  16. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    They were fined for assisting in sale of their XRP stash w/o reporting it to three-letter agencies. Not for operating a gateway.

    Well, as soon as Ripple validators would start censor transactions, they would have much bigger issues with their network usage: no bank would like to have its transactions to be reviewed by any third-party before posting them on the ledger.

    That's why, btw, my proposal focuses on creating a software, not a gateway operation.

    Stellar is less popular than Ripple. It would be quite easy to adapt the open source dash gateway from ripple to stellar.
     
  17. The philosofers coin

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    Maybe I am missing something here, but if anybody can run a node why do we need to invest into the project ?
    I myself could not find the software to run my own full node on my own pc, the link you provided does not their.

    Also the use of Gateway is very confusion (intentionally i wonder?) I think when your talking about a Gateway you mean exchange, which KYC and AML, When I talk about a gateway, I meant become a full (trusted) node on the Ripple network, and become sort of a wallet to users, without AML and KYC, which could charge users for transactions and so forth.
     
  18. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Because a ripple node (rippled) is not a full-featured gateway you can run out of the box?

    Sorry, I don't understand you here. You can get rippled here https://github.com/ripple/rippled Beware of resources it consumes, but if you've got a decent server, it's pretty straighforward.

    If you're not talking about rippled, what "node software" are you talking about?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(payment_protocol)#Gateways
    So, no, I don't mean an exchange. When I'm talking about ripple gateway, I'm talking about ripple gateway.

    Ripple full node, ripple wallet, and ripple gateway are three different things.

    I would be glad to answer your question when I understand it. So far, I don't.
     
  19. The philosofers coin

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    I don't know if your attempting to discreet me or anything but you have not answered any of my questions.

    A quote form the wikipage you posted:

    That's what I said, a gateway is a fancy word for an exchange, as you only get (full) access once you complied with KYC/AML. I find the whole line of talking very dishonest.

    Second point is your say your going to setup a open-source-dash-gateway-on-ripple

    Question 1a)
    Now I am asking how can this be ? Seeing Gateway's can only become gateway's once ripple labs allows them entry.
    Question 1b)
    If anybody could do it why are their so few Ripple Gateways ?
    Question 1c)
    IF it is possible to setup an open-source-dash-gateway-on-ripple, than why should you be the owner of it ? If you build it you should give the finished product to the DASH-holders, so we can use it as we please

    Question 2) How do I install a full node wallet on my pc ? And does such full node actually work, can it actually receive send, import and export private key's. Maybe I am missing something here but I have not found a decent installer for it, why is that ? what so different about ripple that they can't make installer than be used on Windows/Linux and OSX. I mean every other coin can do it even coins with little to no budget at all.
     
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
  20. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    No.

    You can find whatever you'd like, it doesn't change the way code works.

    No.

    Because noone cares until XRP is pumped 100x?

    I should not be the owner of it. We will operate a reference implementation if the remainder of budget will allow. After this, we'll decide if charge a fee or ask Dash MNO for a support. If decision would be "no" for both questions, we will shut down the gateway and return all the funds.

    Are you asking for a free consulation? I usually charge a fee for that.

    It works for me since late 2013.

    Node does not send, import, or export private keys. Wallet does. And yes, open source wallet can do all three.

    Ask https://ripple.com/ ?
     
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
  21. The philosofers coin

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    It's not my attempt to troll you here, and your obviously very knowledgeable about these matters. But most masternode owners or are not.
    But it's very clear to me that Ripple aims to works to replace settlement networks, via the use of an open transparent ledger. With different benefits for different party's.

    And now we have a business ask use to fork over 15k USD for intergation, at the same time they already added something such as REP for FREE !!!
    I find this insulting to ask DASH masternode owners for a handout, especially seeing, dash it's codebase is based on bitcoin, which should make it not that hard to implement other than (instant sent).

    Now you are aligning yourself with them by saying "This is a co-opetition proposal to Pre-Proposal: Create the first DASH gateway on Ripple."
    Just to be clear:
    Perhaps I miss interpret your meaning here, but cooperating with them, is already a no go for me. If you meant you have competing offer on the table than that would 180 degree difference to me personally. It should be a bit more clear do how becomes the owner of the code you will write.

    (I voted no with my MN votes on them, I have not yet voted on this one yet)
     
  22. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    It's not a competition proposal, since it has no "either-or" clause.

    Actually, if both proposal will get implemented, both ripple ledger and dash would win. That's why "coopetiion": both proposals are competing for the limited budget, yet implementation of both proposals would bring more benefit for the community. First thing that comes to mind: GateHub is a marketing/sales/onramp channel for (claimed, I've not personally verified it) 100k users, but they are closed source. This proposal gives access to zero existing users, but has more potential since it provides an open source solution.

    Given both will be implemented, anyone would be able to set up an open, free, ripple gateway and get a tap on gatehub's users via Ripple's DEX.
     
  23. The philosofers coin

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    I have my doubt's as well about their claims.

    Nope, heavily disagree DASH should build it's own version of Gatehub's exchange/gateway.

    Would you be able to do that ?
     
  24. AnarchicCluster

    AnarchicCluster Active Member

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    I think that's what he is planning. He wants to build an open source software so anyone can run such gateway.
    Akhavr said in his first post:
    So I am assuming that, yes, he wants to run such node, either with fees or without fees but subsidised by Masternodes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Not quite like theirs. More open, versative and without KYC and AML. If that would require go dark (on Tor), it will go dark :)

    And it all would be open source.

    If anyone would like to use the code to establish regulated gateway - I would welcome it.
     
  26. TheSingleton

    TheSingleton Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

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    @akhavr Hey got an update on how things are going?
     
  27. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Frankly, I'm a bit stuck, since I can put much less of my own time than I've expected.

    Here's the screencast status from month ago. https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ge72hwllupzjiv/Dash-Ripple Gateway Report 2017.06.15.mp4?dl=0 I'm trying to push team harder, but ICO project sucked anyone likely to be competent from the market (including from 42 Coffee Cups team).

    Hopefully soon I'll be able to upload another screencast report, presenting a version, operating on the testnet.
     
  28. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Short update.

    Due to an unfortunate course of events (mostly personal, I've communicated them with @tungfa ), this project is got severely delayed.

    Yet,
    1. I will definitely deliver it before the end of the year
    2. Until the delivery, funds didn't, aren't, and wouldn't move as anyone can check on https://explorer.dash.org/address/Xb5aFKNfx6itExgSsq29bpzi1ujXnHDS3n
    Feel free to ask questions.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  29. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

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    yes can confirm
    i have been in touch with akhavr multi times reg this
    he asked me to hold / escrow the coins (transparency)
    i needed to refuse (to not be personal involved with proposals) so i am happy (as agreed) he posted the explorer address and we can all see coins are save and untouched
    the deal is 2-3 month and this should be sorted / deliver
     
    • Like Like x 2
  30. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Oh no! Not again! Not another lamassu! Not another developer's wife got pregnant!

    Dash community doesnt care about your personal events.
    If you are unable to deliver the project, then the money should be given to the one who will be capable to deliver this open source project.
    Of course whatever it will be delivered should meet the specifications you set, and your opinion should be heard about it.

    Unfortunately all the above require a governance decision to be taken by the masternodes, for this and for any other project in the futture.
    But governance questions are expensive, and nobody will ask a question like this to the masternodes in order to create a law.
    Because stupids and spies bought masternodes in order to stop governance.

    I think this will be my next preproposal
     
    #30 demo, Aug 30, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
    • Trolling Trolling x 2