Pre-Proposal Discussion - OpenBazaar / Dash Integration

tungfa

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only works on 10.11
and i am not ready to update yet (am on 10.10)
:mad::what:
 

TanteStefana

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OH, so you can get the site to open up? Maybe my new windows 10 machine is blocking it for some reason?
 

TanteStefana

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I was writing back to you, when I abruptly went off line. So I'll try again :) I was trying to get to the website. Is that Mac only as well?

Oh good, it's opening now, Firfox also just updated. Maybe it was forcing me to log out? LOL. I just love windows ..... not!
 

TanteStefana

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Very interesting concept, but if it's an expensive item, it'd be hard to come up with 2X the price to let sit there for a couple of weeks or so! And the seller would also have to come up with the cost of the item. Hard to do on high priced item or lots of items, I'd think.

Again, complicated, too complex for the average ebayer. I think Dash's vision is to be used by the common people. But definitely an interesting idea!

The thing is, most ebay transactions go off without a hitch. People even by from new merchants. They are quite willing to take risks on low priced items. Low priced items are a great way to build up your reputation.

The main problem is going to be how to get into and out of Dash easily and cheaply.

tungfa Let us know what it's like! I don't have a mac. I hope it works on ipads etc... :)
 
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tungfa

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Not me :) Hey Tungfa, were you able to get 'er going?
downloaded
updated computer to 10.11 (not a fan of the newest versions)
installed
needed some new java thingi
installed
program started (nice and black)
and now (since a while) is
"syncing with bitmarket channels (this can take a while the first time)"

waiting
:rolleyes:

Edit: Still waiting
Edit2 : Still ...
i checked their reddit and such and posted some questions, lets see
 
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tungfa

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Sorry,
nothing yet !
still 'syncing'
i pinged them last night over reddit but did not hear any feedback yet
:sad:
 
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tungfa

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ok, Bitmarkets up and running
am in touch with the Dev's over slack (nice guys)
found a bug for them

there is nothing going on yet
1 market is set up and that is it
i am now trying to figure out what is next,
if i should do a test market and such.
(BTC Wallet connected and running)
 

tungfa

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Tungfa did you ask Bitmarkets Devs if they are thinking of adding acceptance for Altcoins in future, more specifically Dash ?
no I did not
they were very hesitant letting me into their slack , due to AltCoin (they are getting spammed like crazy on BCT )
so I have to take this easy

I had a call with Minotaur about this last night, we have to take this easy
none of these apps are ready anytime soon ! bitmarkets is only an app on Mac , they will do all other platforms 'soon' (not sure how Decentralized they actually are)
OB is still where they always were , coding away
we have the electrum Python guys and the idea is that they talk to akhav and talk about the code and see what is actually possible .
the only thing that will make sense to be on OB General , I am against a fork for Dash only market (dead horse)
so to be implemented in the main page (be merged and all) might be a much bigger project than we think and we need the pro Python guys give us a real opinion and estimate first of all
we are working on it
:)
 
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TanteStefana

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I don't want a dash only market either. What I do want is a stable service that is easy for users to use. That's why I'd like to see the Masternode network utilized. It's already solid, it already has a systematic way to be paid for services, and it's still decentralized.

Even if Dash Masternodes are not used, there could be Masternodes created for OB. They would be paid a tiny service fee for their service and still make it all easy to use. The thing there is, even so they wouldn't be securing a block chain, I don't fully understand at the moment, not having thought it through deeply, what kind of security risks would be involved. If there are security risks, again, we need the Dash Masternode network, as it is extremely secure.

There simply isn't any other network like it that can pay to service something like this. And yet, IMO, it has to be done this way because the world isn't going to run their own servers. Too much power, too much memory, mostly,too difficult to use. But I'm all for making it so that any type of coin can be used. Actually, I see this as a combination of decentralized exchange and marketplace that are interwoven. I know it sounds complex, but OB and Coinffeine and Bitsquare have a lot of these issues identified and much of them already worked out.

But Dash is uniquely in position to bring it all together in one comprehensive service. And I don't see why Masternodes would mind hosting this, as they would be paid extra to do so. We could also make it compliant as possible, with report buttons that knock illegal items off the marketplace. Or people could place a disclaimer that the buyer must know the laws of their state, and if the purchase is legal in their jurisdiction.

And finally, I think this is imperative to the whole crypto-currency ecosystem, not just for Dash.
 
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tungfa

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Bitmarkets:

I am trying to figure out how to set up a store:

"there's no concept of store
you just post items you have for sale
unlike open bazaar, there are no centralized persistent store servers
the order book is just shared among client nodes"
 
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TanteStefana

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Bitmarkets:

I am trying to figure out how to set up a store:

"there's no concept of store
you just post items you have for sale
unlike open bazaar, there are no centralized persistent store servers
the order book is just shared among client nodes"
Hi, sorry I disappeared, but I had insane trouble with my windows 10 installation. Ugh! Anyway, I hate to say it, but I think that's a mistake unless it requires such simplification for it to work? The reason why I say that, is that as a store owner, I'd want to entice people to buy more from me, and as a customer, I always look to see if I can buy what I need from one store to save on shipping. It's a simplification, so that might be OK, at first. But I mostly say go with what has proven to work, which is ebay and etsy, etc... :)
 

TanteStefana

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I keep thinking about a version of Open Bazzar that has "masternodes". And I'm wondering if such a system would really require collateral? Open Bazaar has no block chain,no? That is, if we forked Dash for it's Masternode system, then created a marketplace, where any "OB Node" can earn a small fee if they stay online, I mean, there is no blockchain to fudge, nothing one can mess with, no? Except the fee structure, to pay out to people.

I don't know, is this possible? I like the idea of OB that is super simple to use for the buyer and seller (IE no programs to run and maintain, just interface to use)
 
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TanteStefana

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Hope to see Dash acceptance on OB.
That's not planned. Bitcoin only. They feel that a 3rd party solution like .... what's that app with the fox? LOL, I forget. But they want to have quick exchange solutions to take care of that.
 
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TanteStefana

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I know Evan has said he doesn't want a marketplace inside the Dash Protocol, and I'm not the sharpest tack in the drawer, but I can't see doing this the way I envision without a type of Masternode network at it's base. Now, I know that the reason for MNs having a collateral is to protect against, well in plain English, spying and creation of so many MNs they could manipulate inputs. But I'm trying to work out in my head if a server of "Dash Open Bazaar" has any vulnerabilities. I can see DDOS being a problem for both, but that's what wide distribution is supposed to do, keep the network up and running.

What if anyone who wants to, can run a OBMN (open bazaar masternode) and in return, would get paid a proportion of the fees from the buyer/seller or just one. They would need to provide proof of ability (in storage, internet speed and processing power) via a test run every X minutes/hours.

The nodes would naturally balance out depending on if people are making enough money to cover the fees and for their trouble.

Honestly, the sooner we get this built, the sooner we'll start integrating the world's people into crypto.

All we need is a team to integrate Open Bazaar with the Dash Masternode system.

What do you all think, and does anyone want to give it a go?
 
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TanteStefana

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Yah, I know, but it's not going to be successful. It's not going to bring in average people, unless you're just interested in the black market and geek stuff. Why? It's too hard for almost anyone to use. To keep your items up for sale, you have to keep your computer on, you have to run both a server and a client. How many people are going to figure this out and get used to it? AND use crypto?

Make something they can browse on their firefox, chrome, etc... THEN you might have something. This stuff? Too weird, too confusing, to scary for the average ebay seller/buyer.

It'll be a bazaar for geeks, that's it.
 
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TanteStefana

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Make it as easy or easier to use than Ebay, and we'll have something. If it's easy to learn to use, AND it saves 14% in fees, a lot of people might consider using crypto. People that are not drug dealers and geeks. Which is 90% of the world and 99% of trade.
 
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stan.distortion

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Holding off for the DAPI still seems like the best move imho, "strike while the iron's hot" and "the early bird gets the worm" and all that but I don't think we're looking at the future here, Bitcon is still beta and imo much of the infrastructure being built on it will be crypto beta including Open Bazaar. I'm working away at getting the Dash related stuff into the qt client at the mo and if Evolution lives up to expectations that'll likely be a waste of effort, full clients will only really be for special-case uses and for old duffers like me that can't get used to the idea of everything in the cloud and what I see of the distributed market places so far strikes me as the same, an old way of thinking and that's not the way Dash rolls. I'd be happy to put some time into something along these lines (extremely happy is there's beer dash involved) but its got to be ahead of the curve, not a clone of an existing idea with a few tweaks.
 

TanteStefana

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I don't disagree there. I don't think anyone is seriously competing against Open Bazaar - they'd rather hope it will be the ultimate answer. Unfortunately, I see failure there, except for geeks and drug dealers :( So no big rush.

I want to reach the BIG money, the BIG audience, that is the public.

Even so, this would be a really big project, and preparation wouldn't hurt ;)
 
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stan.distortion

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True but preparation for what, a distributed ebay clone? If so then imho that's back to front, the items should come before the place to sell them. You wouldn't re-create something for every marketplace in the real world but that's the way we handle listings in the virtual one.

EDIT: That's not clear. Think of this Internet of Things type stuff that's all the rage these days, you've got things to sell and there's a way they fit just right on the internet. As the situation stands we go to a site, create a listing, add photos, details, whatever. Then you want to sell it on another site, you might copy and paste stuff, re-upload photos etc. but you're going through the whole process all over again, then someone buys it and sells it on some time later, same process yet again.

Now, why can't you go through that creation process and simply re-use it wherever's needed? Carry that on and why can't the delivery guy get that virtual "thing" when he picks up the real thing and cut out all his paperwork when the virtual delivery matches the real one? New owner re-sells, he just puts the "thing" up for sale and the rest happens automagically.

That might sound weird but its only a few years off, folks like IBM are already working on that kind of thing and its likely the reason why Microsoft's getting behind Etherium but that's all big business and power-meetings, there's an opening their for regular folks with regular needs.
 
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TanteStefana

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Studying the Open Bazaar and Dash code, see how they can be extracted and changed for our needs. We shouldn't reinvent the wheel, just add treads, then an axle a motor would be great and finally some seats and a body would top it off.

1. Split the OB client and server so that the server doesn't have to run on the same machine.
2. Pull out the MN code, the part that chooses which MN gets paid and set it up to work stand - alone
3. Meld the two, the server and the MN setup, add server specifications testing for the "ping" Or as a first time ping, or periodic ping. And fees to pay the OBMN network.

In the mean time, we'll learn more about the DAPI, how can we use it? How can it help us? etc.... but the foundation is sitting there waiting to be melded into a new project.

Forgive me, I'm not a programmer, so I know I could very well have my head up my butt, but as I understand it, most programs are modular. There should be no reason not to get started, and as we work on it, we will undoubtedly think of issues or services that could make the project even better than originally imagined.

I also am not learned in attack vectors. So I do not know if these special OBMNs would require collateral, they're only serving up product web pages and search engine (by the way, we could make us of YaCy as the foundation of our search engine) But that's another thing we have to thoroughly think through. I suspect we'll be using the DAPI for some of this, probably our own quorum selections to process payments or some such.

Everything has been built for other uses, but can't we integrate them into an awesome marketplace based on Dash, but easily converted to any other currency, even fiat (since it's a marketplace, why not?) and an awesome search engine, paying OBMNs so that we have high quality servers serving up the information? We sure can, and the sooner we start, the sooner it will be ready.

Open Bazaar
Masternode Network from Dash
YaCy project (search engine) contained to be used in this "intranet" of MNs

And if it will obviously help DASH, we might be able to get the community to back advertisement funding for the project. This is probably going to be the hardest, but most important part. Getting people to use it.

RE: auto filling information, that's an awesome idea. You could just have a seller/store put in their ebay item number, and all the information could automatically be placed into the form, including the price - converted to Dash.

One thing you can't just do, is reuse pictures. A lot of things on ebay are second hand, and the pictures are supposed to represent the item's condition now. Also, the person who took the picture typically has a shit fit if you use their pictures, especially without permission. But if it's like a Rpi, then a generic - from the manufacturer's picture with a proper description would indeed be perfect to download automatically from the internet and used. There are so many things we could do, and I'm sure there will be more ideas, and the longer our heads start working on this, the more we'll be able to include, and possibly launch by the time Evolution is complete (1-1.5 years from now according to Evan)
 
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