Pre-Proposal Discussion - OpenBazaar / Dash Integration

stan.distortion

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Lol, it'd be nice :) Can you see what the first errors where? I'd imagine it's a dependency problem but like you say, it could be a broken update. I had something missing when I tried to get it compiled and I had a right pain correcting it but it failed right at the start, once it had everything it needed it ran fine.
 

TanteStefana

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It probably is, but I didn't note them, and my memory is too short to remember. I did glance at them as they went by, but with my video card mining on one, and the other compiling in screen, I couldn't scroll back. I'll try again tonight :) I'm also preparing myself emotionally for a switch over to Windows 10. I want to install all the dependencies and stuff for QT import, if I can do it. and I don't want to do it before I upgrade. But I fear upgrading so much! :sad::mad::what::confused: I keep putting it off. But I want to do it on my machine before I mess with everyone elses. And they're all asking me to do this for them, so I got to get it done. I really hate windows, but many of my games don't work on ubuntu :oops:
 

TanteStefana

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I think, if anyone is interested in something like Open Bazaar, that they should spend the time before the next Dash version comes out getting to know the code. I'm not a coder, 'cause every time I try, I make some syntactical error, and can't find it. I'm just not detail oriented enough, Ugh, so I hate it, LOL. But I'm going to try to understand what people have written and see if I can't maybe chart the files, and organize what's what so that the next coder can see in an instant what's there.

Maybe I can help in that way? We'll see. I may get too frustrated trying to understand and not be able to do this, but I hope to learn along the way :)
 

stan.distortion

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Its a waste of time me looking at python but its probably well commented so should be able to get some somewhere to start at least. Not sure how much time I'll get though, I'm trying to do something with Qt but I hate OO, damned objects are the wrong... everything. Will have a flick through it tomorrow.
 
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Tante: One of the tutorial links that stan.distortion had left mentions some errors (about 1600 of them), I got that too when after compiling and all was well. I think they just have it on a really high code debugging mode enabled or something.

Overall my impression on OB at this point in time is that we need to wait at least another month to get to the point where we can build a requirements doc. I know that I read something about a November Beta test so hopefully around that time we'll get something more substantial to play with. Will definitely be keeping an eye on the repository :)
 

moli

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Tante: One of the tutorial links that stan.distortion had left mentions some errors (about 1600 of them), I got that too when after compiling and all was well. I think they just have it on a really high code debugging mode enabled or something.

Overall my impression on OB at this point in time is that we need to wait at least another month to get to the point where we can build a requirements doc. I know that I read something about a November Beta test so hopefully around that time we'll get something more substantial to play with. Will definitely be keeping an eye on the repository :)
You might be able to get help and more info if you get on their slack.

https://openbazaar-slackin-drwasho.herokuapp.com/
 

Icebucket

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Already posted this in the brainstorming session https://dashtalk.org/threads/can-you-think-of-a-project-to-fund.6385/page-5#post-71223
But this thread seems more appropriate.

I think we're a natural for hosting Open Bazaar, so that stores never close (just because you want to turn off your computer) and we could charge a very tiny fee for a more robust system, always on, hosts your items, etc...
I really like this idea, Could Dash maybe work out some agreement with the OB developers to integrate Dash into their core program along side bitcoin for use of the masternode network, for lets say a year to begin with.

They would probably like the 3000+ Servers to be running OB in the beginning until real adoption kicks in
And we would be integrated from the start at a core level.

Then anybody copying the code to make theyir own version of OB would also include Dash
 
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TanteStefana

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Ok, I'm giving it another try. Saw a few errors fly by about variables, but more have gone by, too fast to read

Grabbed it, "method has no argument; name already defined.... no name "" in module ""

I totally forgot to download the latest, can I stop this gracefully? LOL
 

stan.distortion

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Kill it, kill it with knives!! Sry ;) Yeah, just kill it. Not sure if you need to do a make clean or something with python but it wont do anything irreparable. Started reading up on the networking but not far, should be easy enough to make sense of though.
 

TanteStefana

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I've been thinking that maybe this new DAPI that is going to be made for Dash Evolution can be used as an easy way to plug Dash into Open Bazaar, or vise versa for fitting OB into a MN service?

ROFL Stan, OK, will do (stil running, LOL)

Like I said, I'm udating to windows 10 then I want to see if I can port this to QT. I'm sure it'll be way over my head but hope to learn a lot trying :)
 

TanteStefana

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Ah, stupid me, how could I have forgotten they wrote that the errors and failure could be ignored! I started it up after another compile and it seems to be working. Working on the client now.

Aaaaand Magic! But no stores no items :(
 
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stan.distortion

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Having another quick look through and it appears to use libbitcoin and it looks like UdjinM6 has already ported that over:
https://github.com/UdjinM6/bitcoinjs-lib-dash

I'd imagine it should be possible to split the payment options so any number of lightweight java clients can be included through the same procedure, not that far in yet though. Just making notes here btw, I could be on the wrong track entirely. Sent an invite request to their slack a few days ago but nothing back yet:
https://openbazaar-slackin-drwasho.herokuapp.com/

EDIT: Related:
https://github.com/OpenBazaar/OpenBazaar/wiki/03.-OpenBazaar-Protocol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kademlia
 
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stan.distortion

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A couple of things from reading through the protocol details, it's mentioned in a few places that there's no plan to support alts and that they should go through services like shapeshift instead. I'm a bit surprised by that, including java clients for any alt that wants to integrate is clunky but looks workable but I'd have thought that would have been considered and a more elegant solution found, payment methods and their associated calls as part of the contracts rather than baked in for example but the notes leave little doubt it's bitcoin only.

Imo it would be worth stepping back and seeing what other options are out there, the payment methods are one reason but imho they're trying to do to much to soon and include absolutely everything from day one rather than getting a bare bones but expandable system up and running and solidifying it while expanding. A lot of money has been pumped into development and they seem to have some smart folks working on it so it could work out well but trying to get that much right on the first attempt of a previously untried idea seems risky to me.

EDIT: Some thoughts when looking over the protocol.

Much of what OB is trying to implement with a standalone network could well covered with the DAPI and distributed storage in Evolution.

Various other systems are being worked on with the same aim and a common contract format for cross platform compatibility could be more useful than targeting a specific platform.

The ratings system seems vulnerable and could well reduce the credibility of the system either by gamed ratings remaining in the system or resets to remove them while developing. Imo a trust network could be a better point to begin as many things could be built on a solid reputation system and inherit confidence from it, including marketplaces.
 
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TanteStefana

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Can OB be puled apart to do that? I mean, is it all so mish mashed together that we can't just use a stripped out server and client and use the API to integrate them as separate server and [email protected]
And re SRS and other document deliverables (vs code deliverables)... As soon as we, as the community would decide what exactly we would want OpenBazaar/DASH would like, I can ran it by my company and get project plan and initial estimate. For free.

To do it, someone else but me, should install OpenBazaar, play with it and describe the vision using screenshots/mockups.
back to this, I think I can do this. I am an ebayer since way back. I represent an older generation, though slightly tech savy, I am also wary of having to learn something new. Today is my day, so I'm going to work on this. It might be drwayings on lined paper, LOL, but... hey, you know ;P
 

TanteStefana

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$150,000,000 has been poured into OB. The difficulties of pulling the code apart may be well worth it. Reinventing the wheel sounds easier but think about the effort hat went into it that it cost so much! I think that was bogus information I read somewhere I can't find anymore :p
 
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stan.distortion

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$150 million?! Fsck! That seems like a crazy figure considering the part that really matters is the contracts and as soon as they're anything like standardised other platforms will adopt and expand them, especially if other aspects are as limited as the currency used as that's usually the first thing that happens to anything released in crypto, it gets ported to different coins.
 

TanteStefana

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That's what I read. I read they have already had 50,00,000 and that they were just given another 100,000,000. From some investors or corporations. Oh heck, I must have read some bogus information somewhere. On theire site they say they received 1 million in funding in July. Undobutedly the article I read was BS
 

Syntax360

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A decentralized exchange and decentralized marketplace have to be at the very top of everyone's wishlist right now. Those sort of projects are quite obviously enormous undertakings, but a big part of me really wishes we had the resources the spin our masternode network into answering those calls. It just seems like exactly the sort of "service" our network is made for. And Open Bazaar doesn't even pretend to address privacy concerns - my vision of the "perfect product" would definitely be a secure, anonymous, decentralized merchant platform that uses a secure, anonymous, decentralized currency for transactions. Maybe we could look pass a blockchain initiative to fund the purchase of enough chains and locks to secure Evan and the rest of the dev team to their desks to work on something like this in Q3-Q4 of 2016? One can dream, anyway...

Open Bazaar definitely has all the momentum of the first serious attempt to get it done, but I echo other sentiments in this thread that in its current form (admittedly very immature) it is simply too difficult for the average eBay-er to switch to. Making a thing easy to use necessary follows making a thing work, so I have every faith they'll get around to addressing the problem. We probably do need to pay attention to Open Bazaar's development and keep thinking of ways we could hitch our wagon to their star if they pull the project off.
 
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TanteStefana

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The client is almost nothing to get up and running, but it doesn't do anything without the server on the same machine. I wish I could code, but I'd have to think that since they are already 2 separate repositories, and they don't need to be seperated, there's got to be a way to do this! If someone who could do this, hopefully they'll put in a proposal :)
 

tungfa

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I am waiting for akhavr to give us a bit of an idea / guideline
I mentioned this here to the Core Team in our last conference call (and empahasized how important I think this is)
Evan knows a good Python guy who might be into it , we just need akhav as senior Python guys to give us a message 1st
(making progress)
 

TanteStefana

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I think I can make a "Mock Up" of how it should function for the user, if that is what akhavr was saying he needed. I've been fighting my windows machine which won't go online. This machine is mining, but I have that tutorial on how to set up P2pool for you. I just can't get on Slack :(. Maybe by tonight I'll be on. I'l either roll back Windows or get the thing to go online, hopefully. I've read some people rolled back and couldn't get online there either, so it's a last attempt kind of thing, LOL.

Yes, this is important and so is a decentralized exchange.
 

TanteStefana

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I GOT IT! Some oddball setting blocking internet! I'm back!!

Ok, started work on how the pages should work, and I'm using excel I hope that'll be good?
 
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TanteStefana

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Here are 3 points of view I've listed so far. What a Buyer would want, what a Seller would want and what a Node server would want:

As a Buyer:

As a buyer, I want to see price in my country’s currency so I can relate to it

As a buyer, I want to know how much the item will cost to ship to me

As a buyer, I want to know the quality of the item

As a buyer, I want easy search with categories.

As a buyer, I want an easy way to contact the seller to ask questions

As a buyer, I want escrow so that I can at least keep seller from getting funds if I don’t get item.

As a buyer, I want to see what other items the seller has so I might combine shipping.

As a buyer, I want to see pictures, as many as the seller will take, so I can get a good idea of the quality

As a buyer, I want a clear description of the item, and a place where I can see, at a glance the main information:

1. Where the item will be shipped from

2. Is the item new or used

3. What condition is the item in

4. The price in my local currency (converted from Bitcoin or Dash)

5. Shipping options with prices in my local currency

As a buyer, I would like to see my orders, their shipping tracking information and if I’ve rated the seller and item yet.

As a buyer, I would like to read reviews from other buyers about this Seller and organize them by score, such as seeing all the negative scores and their comments. I would also like to see how long he/she has been selling on Open Bazaar.

As a buyer, I would like to see ratings on how well items were packaged, how fast they were sent out, and how helpful the seller was or other notes.



As a Seller:

As a seller, I want a storefront option where I can list all my items, all neatly categorized.

As a seller, I want an easy setup for my items, automatically formatted for me and free space to post many pictures

As a seller, I want flexibility so that I can make my item pages and my “store” look cohesive with my logos and colors, etc…

As a seller, I want my items to be easy to find via search words as well as categories – as many categories as I can.

As a seller, I want a picture up on the search page results

As a seller, I want exposure (maybe users can choose items they’d like to see when they login, a favorites, no “cookies” but rather private choice, and thus acts as advertisement for the seller)

As a seller, I want options, such as auctions.

As a seller, I want to choose which countries I will ship to

As a seller, I want to be able to get rid of my bad reviews by making things better with buyer, and having the buyer update that review (not set in stone – but only buyer/seller can change for that transaction)

As a seller, I want to be able to block a buyer with a bad reputation from purchasing my items (minimum stars? Minimum transactions?)

AS a seller, I want as many mailing options as possible and for the price to be automatically calculated for me, so that the buyer can see the price without having to contact me. And I would like it to be accurate.

As a seller, I would like to be able to contact the buyer to update on shipping or other issues, and keep those messages in an organized fashion for easy locating. This can be on my local machine.

As a seller, I would like to set the price of my item in my local currency so I know that my price is accurate at the time of sale, and if I need to, I can change to fiat quickly, reducing my exposure to the volatile alt market. This includes shipping costs.

As a seller, I would like to be able to keep a copy of my pages, locally is fine, so that if I have more of the same to sell, I can simply make minor changes to the listing

As a seller, if something happens to my item before I can ship it, I would like to be able to return or release the funds back to the buyer asap with apologies and for the buyer not to be able to give me a bad review beyond neutral.

As a seller, I would like to be allowed to respond to my reviews



As a Node Server:

As a Node Server, I would like to be compensated for hosting Open Bazaar and it’s resources.

As a Node Server, I don’t want to host any readable information so I can not be held accountable for what is put up for sale.

As a Node Server, I would like a reporting mechanism for reporting illegal and inappropriate items that would automatically be cancelled which would show that an effort is shown toward keeping OpenBazaar-Dash a safe and legal marketplace.

As a Node Server, I would like the Dash Foundation to get legal advice on the legality and depth of responsibility of running such a node, and how to minimize exposure. Then I would like to see those suggestions implemented.
 

TanteStefana

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Let me know what I should add to these lists please. I still need to prioritize them. What could they live without, etc... So as to come up with the most basic usable situation :)

I've decided I needed to get the most basic information, before I continue my mock up of the system.
 
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Syntax360

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Absolutely fantastic list, TanteStefana!

This might be an oddball suggestion, but I'll throw it out there anyway... As a buyer using a currency which can theoretically sever the connection between my payment and my identity, I would like some non-public purchasing option. I'm not even positive what this would exactly look like, let alone how it would be implemented, but I suppose I am imagining a purchasing option that permanently masks (or altogether removes) certain records from Order History after the transaction is complete. I think it would be an option a vendor could choose to enable or disable in their store/item auction, and then the buyer would get to choose what level of detail remains or gets blasted from record after transaction completion.

In execution, it would look something like this: I might not care if the world knows that I bought an item from your store, but I may not want any record publicly reported/stored at the platform-level about what that exact item was. Alternatively, I might want to leave feedback - public record of order and item, e.g. "Fast shipping! TanteStefana's widgets are always great!!" - but I might want my identity un-linked from that review/platform-level record.
 
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TanteStefana

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I understand, Syntax360, but does that lessen the ability for the seller to know who judged him? And the opportunity to make it better? Some of these sellers do thousands of sales a week, it's hard to follow. Also, if you're using a pseudonym for this, it can be changed. But you, as the pseudonym will be judged at how you deal with people as well. Do you write bad reviews on everyone? Then the review can be given it's proper weight by the next buyer. If you're such an @sshole that people stop selling to you, or buying from you, you can try a new store, but you'll have to find someone to take a chance on you all over again. This, IMO is good, to be a little forgiving, but start from scratch.

So, I'd think the system would lose too much useful information. Also, rating the quality of the item is important as well. So... I'm sure your real identity, your address, etc... can be safely unstored, or encrypted if not, and later burned, but the ratings are the best way to develop trust in the system.
 
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TanteStefana

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But, I'll put it on the list, when I get back :) Maybe if you could spell it out again, how I should write it?

and LOL, my list always says "As a ___" because it was helping me to focus, and pull ideas out of my head, so sorry for the repetition :p
 
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TanteStefana

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I can't connect to it, and it seems they launched a year ago, so maybe the project failed? It sounds much the same as OpenBazaar? Any of them are simply not going to attract the mainstream. It's just WAY too hard to set up, it freaks most people out. We thrive on this stuff, they don't. If they can download an application, double click and install it, then run it, we have a chance. It should look like something familiar (ebay/etsy) and be just as easy if not easier to use. I think it could be easier to use because you have to make lots of choices that ebay wants to sell to you, it clutters things up and makes it confusing.

But I'm certain, I"m positive that if you give the people an easy way to buy and sell, they'll get over the buying bitcoin/dash thing. That's how much they hate ebay! I'm not saying it'll be super easy, we still have to get the word out, it'll take time to get enough good stuff for sale so that we can start dragging buyers in, but I think it can be done!