Pre-Proposal Discussion: Dash to fund Tezos

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Would you like dash to fund Tezos in order they instantiate dash in their platform?

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demo said:
Well in that case, and if the 10% fixed number of the budget system cannot change with sentinel, then this is exactly what tezos port may offer (among many other things) to dash.
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I look forward to hearing more about it. But I'm still not convinced about smart contracts. We still haven't cracked simple payments or currency exchange. Never mind turning on your toaster using your alarm clock.
 
halso said:
I look forward to hearing more about it. But I'm still not convinced about smart contracts. We still haven't cracked simple payments or currency exchange. Never mind turning on your toaster using your alarm clock.
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You will not hear more about it, unless you change your vote to yes and you convince also others to vote yes, in order to be legitimate for someone to contact the tezos team and ask them to port dash into their platfom.

It is that simple. Voting no , and then looking forward to hearing more, this does not make sense.

<vote history>
Would you like dash to fund Tezos in order they instantiate dash in their platform?
yes 1 vote(s) (demo) 33.3%
no 1 vote(s) (halso) 33.3%,
other 1 vote(s) (goto1415) 33.3%
</vote history>
 
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demo said:
Poll:Should 10% budget be a constant number for the present and the future?(yes/no/other)
---Voted yes/other---> end
---Voted no-------------> Poll:Should Evan decide the change of this number? (yes/no/other)
Poll:Should core team decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
Poll:Should MN owners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
------ Voted no/other--->end
-------Voted yes -----------> Poll: Should MN owners decide that change by voting with numbers? (yes/no/other)
-------Voted yes -----------> Poll:Should MN owners decide that change by voting yes/no on a proposal of the core team? (yes/no/other)
Poll:Should miners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)
Poll:Should wallet owners decide the change of this number?(yes/no/other)


So in the decision tree, sentinel stands in the position marked as bold? Interesting...​
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Below a link where Arthur Breitman describes a similar to the above tree.

HTML: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mgaDpuMSc0&feature=youtu.be&t=2054

This is actually the way the Knowledge Tree (mentioned in the Bible) works and defines the reality of the Universe, but lets not get into metaphysics in this thread.
 
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halso said:
My understanding is that sentinel will allow MNs to vote on 'objects' which will include variables embedded in the code.

I could be wrong but my interpretation of Evans comments are that MN will be able to vote on sprok variables etc.

Which in essence what u are talking about.
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No, because dash core will continue to "upgrade" with or without the consent of MNs.. AFAIK Tezos is putting control into the hands of it's users... if you want to modify against the will of the users then you'll have to fork... which makes a bloody change because right now crypto devs are the new bankers, constantly moving the goal posts and telling everyone else to fork off.
 
demo said:
Nobody was asked about the protocol, the core team decided about it. And all of us had just one choice, either accept it and become members of dash, or reject it and leave dash. This is not correct. Protocols should not give only the accept and the reject choice.
At the begining the core team should put into a vote all initial values of their protocol. And in a second version, all inital decisions of the protocol should also become a subject to vote.
This is can be done by using reflective programming. The protocol should follow the reflective programming principles, and the core team must learn how to write in a reflective way. In computer science, reflection is the ability of a computer program to examine, introspect, and modify its own structure and behavior at runtime.
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Below Arthur Breitman explains the tezos contract model.
HTML: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNerM72f0Pk&feature=youtu.be&t=1681
And he gives an example of smaltalk, which is of course a reflective programming language.
On the other hand the language Tezos choosed is OCaml which is not a reflective language. so I am a little bit confused on whether Tezos is planning to support reflective programming or not.
 
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It seems dashers do not care about a Nomic Bank.

The idea of a Nomic Bank is not a new one, this idea is at least 10 years old. But until now nobody was ever able to implement such a thing. People do not seem to be interested in defining the rules of the bank system, they prefer others to define the rules on their behalf.

Although this obvious disinterest, I am confident that a Nomic Bank will be the last step in the evolution of the Bank system.

<vote history>
Would you like dash to fund Tezos in order they instantiate dash in their platform?
yes 1 vote(s) 25.0%
no 2 vote(s) 50.0%
other 1 vote(s) 25.0%
</vote history>
 
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Tezos? Another thing I have not heard of before. Do they have a good reputation? How long have they been around? Looking at their website... Interesting logo, I like that. It also says on their website: "Tezos is currently testing and bug fixes to move out of its prototype phase. We are scheduling to release Tezos in Q1 2017." - perhaps we should wait and see if it is successful for others before funding anything.
 
Dash was a pioneer cryptocoin in the governance and in the anonymity fields 2 years before. But it is not enough to have good ideas. You have to be able to implement your ideas also, and implement your ideas not good enough but with the best way. A good enough implemention is not enough if you are competing into the internet. Into the internet you have to be the best. Only the best survives, and all the rest (although good enough) they die. Nowdays Dash is not alone into the governance and anonymity fields, there are many rivals and this is dangerous for Dash.

ec1warc1 said:
perhaps we should wait and see if it is successful for others before funding anything.
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If it is succesful for others, maybe it will be too late for Dash.

It is urgent for Dash to invest in research in both the governance and the anonymity fields.

Especially in the governance field, it is not enough to copy and paste the ideas and the code of your rivals to become competitive. Even if you manage to copy and paste their ideas and their code, it is impossible to copy and paste the community created because of the good governance.

So to be the best in the governance field, this is the most crucial for survival.
 
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Legit project, very legit team. Arthur was VP at Morgan Stanley, after being at Goldman Sachs, Kathleen was Sr. Strategy at R3. Interesting idea, not to mention they plan to implement a governance model similar to Dash. Apparently have better language for coding smart contracts than ETH (I'm not a dev so I can't verify this). I expect to see good things from them.
 
A Plan to Save Blockchain Democracy From Bitcoin’s Civil War

Through the Tezos voting system, stakeholders can also change the voting system. “We are not necessarily beholden to voting as a governance mechanism,” Breitman says. “Every part of the system can evolve, including the governance system itself.” He compares this means of self-correction to a constitutional amendment—another powerful idea in light of the conflict over bitcoin.
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I have also proposed a self-correction system, in order to self-correct the two basic variables of every vote, the minimum participation and the selection process. This is what I call "the triple vote".
 
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demo said:
Tezos is a self-amendment Nomic Bank that can instantiate any cryptocoin.
So they can instantiate dash.
Would you like dash to fund Tezos, in order they instantiate dash in their platform?
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Why should we fund Tezos? What is it and why do you think it is beneficial for Dash users?
 
Technologov said:
Why should we fund Tezos? What is it and why do you think it is beneficial for Dash users?
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Have you read the thread? Watch the videos.
Mainly because they want to make a self-amendment Nomic Bank.
Of course the concept of a self-amendment Nomic Bank is something that the stupids cannot understand.
The masternodes are totally stupid, the only thing they believe it worths to sponsor is feasts, amandas and MMA Fighters.

<vote history>
Would you like dash to fund Tezos in order they instantiate dash in their platform?
*yes 1 vote(s) 9.1%
no 9 vote(s) 81.8%
other 1 vote(s) 9.1%
</vote history>
 
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https://twitter.com/tez0s/status/846789306165317632

:p:p:p:p


Beware. Stupids restricted zone.
restricted-zone-little-d-man-stepping-concept-boundaries-restriction-consequences-rule-breaking-30503249.jpg



https://tezos.com/pages/tech.html

Reservoir contract
We want to create a contract that stores tez until a timestamp T or a maximum amount N is reached. Whenever N is reached before T, all tokens are reversed to an account B (and the contract is automatically deleted). Any call to the contract's code performed after T will otherwise transfer the tokens to another account A.
We want to build this contract in a reusable manner, so we do not hard-code the parameters. Instead, we assume that the global data of the contract are (Pair (Pair T N) (Pair A B)).
Hence, the global data of the contract has the following type
Code: 
'g =
  pair
   pair timestamp tez
   pair (contract unit unit) (contract unit unit)
Following the contract calling convention, the code is a lambda of type
Code: 
lambda
  pair (pair tez unit) 'g
  pair unit 'g
writen as
Code: 
lambda
  pair (pair tez unit)
   pair
     pair timestamp tez
     pair (contract unit unit) (contract unit unit)
  pair unit
   pair
     pair timestamp tez
     pair (contract unit unit) (contract unit unit)
The complete source reservoir.tz is:
Code: 
parameter timestamp ;
storage
  pair
   (pair timestamp tez) # T N
   (pair (contract unit unit) (contract unit unit)) ; # A B
return unit ;
code
  { DUP ; CDAAR ; # T
   NOW ;
   COMPARE ; LE ;
   IF { DUP ; CDADR ; # N
        BALANCE ;
        COMPARE ; LE ;
        IF { CDR ; UNIT ; PAIR }
           { DUP ; CDDDR ; # B
             BALANCE ; UNIT ;
             DIIIP { CDR } ;
             TRANSFER_TOKENS ;
             PAIR } }
      { DUP ; CDDAR ; # A
        BALANCE ;
        UNIT ;
        DIIIP { CDR } ;
        TRANSFER_TOKENS ;
        PAIR } }
 
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If I understand correctly from their white-paper is that Tezos is about to upgrade production "stable" network with code that is already running in "testing" network.
I *may* support if, but only if they show how it can be applied to the Dash network.
Else what are the benefits for Dash ?

Any kind of academic development must be a bonus for Dash, or else it will not get funding.
 
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