HempSweet Decentralized Industrialization Alliance Proposal

mranderson010

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ok - out of respect for babygiraffe - i read it all. Probably a good thing. However I will be voting no, as far as I can see, because:

- Partly, I don't like long wordy proposals that try to be persuasive before getting to the important bit
- Partly, its a lot of money
- Mainly, if it were a safe and legal place to put money you wouldn't be unbanked, nor would you be short of investors. Its almost certainly very dangerous to our long term survival to be putting money into this. I think its only a matter of time before governments try to use legal intervention to control us, and this would be a perfect place to start.
I have no reasonable argument against it being wordy --if that is our biggest fault then I am satisfied with what we are doing. All I can say is this effort put forth by everyone including yourself has already shown what can happen when we see a common goal and fine tune big ideas into simple core logic. Our formal proposal will be culmination of that.

~99k/700k is 14.14% of the total budget for this payment cycle. For the "it will make all the current DASH in circulation less valuable because of inflation" argument then here are the facts: $92.36/DASH and $99k would be 1071.89 DASH, which is 0.0149% dilution of DASH.

"Mainly, if it were a safe and legal place to put money you wouldn't be unbanked, nor would you be short of investors." This makes no sense for a community that says that our technology is superior to legacy banking (Obviously it is superior) to judge the quality of a company wanting to leverage this new found monetary instrument on whether they are tied down to a few gatekeepers who hold all the power, I see a traditional company dependency on banks as a severe weakness. PureHemp tech is not short on investors, but use for the other 60% of the plant that will likely be funded (especially if crypto doesn't capitalize on this opportunity) through traditional investments.......nothing will change. A few "investors" who own the rights to technologies that have the potential to improve the quality of life for everyone, but will either be destroyed or privileged to a few.

"I think its only a matter of time before governments try to use legal intervention to control us, and this would be a perfect place to start." So you do not think this has been the case from day one of any attempt by the people to gain more control over their lives and wealth. Or that government hasn't already used legal means to control us? Hell ask Charlie Shrem who also has an active proposal. Think about things in different terms. How could the government spin a story that involved them obstructing the peaceful development of a food that has proven to be much safer and healthier for everyone on the planet? If HempSweet or any individual was funding them then sure they could attack the source of value that allows the R&D, but how do you suppose they would attack a decentralized blockchain that is funding research that is supposed to be so difficult that only "governments" or powerful corporations are supposed to be doing?
 
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oaxaca

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A few obvious points here. It's all about choices. The masternode owners gave 1100 Dash per month for the Terpin PR fiasco. The masternode owners gave over 7300 Dash for an ATM fiasco. ATMs? Seriously? And what are we discussing now? More ATMs and a Tesla? Are you kidding me?

This proposal is much more far reaching than those. Let me spell it out for you. The Dash that would be allocated would be USED and RE-USED in a circle of real world adoption. To quote above: "all participants from grower to processor to manufacturer to supplier to retailer agreed to accept and pay in cryptocurrencies, with incentives favoring DASH..."

This is what it's all about. While it's fine to talk about exposure, this is real world acceptance and use of Dash. That is the Holy Grail of the entire Dash project, is it not?
 
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Kevin Stalker

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Thankyou for taking the time to answer my questions. I still struggle to glean the nuggets of hard facts from the answers, however. On the price, if this were a one-off payment I would accept your suggestion that it is easily afforded, but as 12 months it feels uncomfortable. This same argument feeds into the legal questions. We will be funding the canabis industry for a long period of time. I am not qualified to weigh the legal arguments. Almost everyone here would say that Charlie Shrem did nothing wrong, and would have wondered how a government could spin a story that would make him a criminal, and yet he was given a 2 year sentence. Indeed, ask him what they can and will do! We may be decentralised, but we have offices and people who get paid and work. Governments search out individuals and hold them responsible, even when they are not. I am risk averse here.
 
Thankyou for taking the time to answer my questions. I still struggle to glean the nuggets of hard facts from the answers, however. On the price, if this were a one-off payment I would accept your suggestion that it is easily afforded, but as 12 months it feels uncomfortable. This same argument feeds into the legal questions. We will be funding the canabis industry for a long period of time. I am not qualified to weigh the legal arguments. Almost everyone here would say that Charlie Shrem did nothing wrong, and would have wondered how a government could spin a story that would make him a criminal, and yet he was given a 2 year sentence. Indeed, ask him what they can and will do! We may be decentralised, but we have offices and people who get paid and work. Governments search out individuals and hold them responsible, even when they are not. I am risk averse here.
The initial proposal will be one-off, with the necessity to continually prove efficacy to maintain funding. All parties are in agreement on this.
Re ongoing funding: The funding is going to a biomass processor. That that processor has a division that focuses on processing and development of the perfectly legal hemp plant is of no consequence. Those who wish to choke off the hemp industry while Monsanto and its cohorts get ahead of things will likely have a problem with their illegitimate gates being bypassed but, hey, that's what we're all about isn't it? There is absolutely nothing even remotely illegal involved here.
Charlie's saga is completely different.
Of course, gangsters of any stripe will do what they will do. Can't count on them doing the right thing. Shall we cower, or do what's right, honest and of benefit to humanity?
 

camosoul

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VENDORS ARE USERS, TOO!

Or at least they would be if crypto were not hostile to them... I'm still impressed by the ability of the DASH community and leadership to still not understand this.

You have to support someone other than the showflakes. IX seemed to be the answer, but it appears that it's creator has no idea what it's good for or why.

The full-circle is the objective, but the everyday user can't actually use without the vendors. At least band-aid them a DASH -> FIAT solution, and then you can fill in the rest of the circle from there.

Vendors are the starting point for drawing the circle.

No, I'm just a troll for saying so... fuckin' echo chamber cryptotards...
 
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TanteStefana

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Basically, it seems like you wish us to partner with you, funding your enterprise, and I worry we could get into legal troubles this way, NOT because what your work is, is illegal, but rather business legal troubles. This is not something for us MNs to jump feet first into. It would require a well written contract and a legal team for the MNs to rely on to keep our interests and safety paramount. But we don't have something like that. The Dash Foundation does, but we as a distributed network don't.
 

TanteStefana

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VENDORS ARE USERS, TOO!

Or at least they would be if crypto were not hostile to them... I'm still impressed by the ability of the DASH community and leadership to still not understand this.

You have to support someone other than the showflakes. IX seemed to be the answer, but it appears that it's creator has no idea what it's good for or why.

The full-circle is the objective, but the everyday user can't actually use without the vendors. At least band-aid them a DASH -> FIAT solution, and then you can fill in the rest of the circle from there.

Vendors are the starting point for drawing the circle.

No, I'm just a troll for saying so... fuckin' echo chamber cryptotards...
What if this venture could be interpreted that we, the Dash Network, are responsible for what these guys do? They want us to hire two people and pay their salaries. Then something goes wrong, Hell, someone falls and hits their head on a forklift and dies. Now the MNs are all responsible.

It reads like a full partnership. The verbiage is frightening, and I really think we need a law firm that represents the protections of the MNs to do something like this.

Also, we're not here to be a banking institution, giving out loans. How could we even begin to supervise this project?
 

mranderson010

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What if this venture could be interpreted that we, the Dash Network, are responsible for what these guys do? They want us to hire two people and pay their salaries. Then something goes wrong, Hell, someone falls and hits their head on a forklift and dies. Now the MNs are all responsible.

It reads like a full partnership. The verbiage is frightening, and I really think we need a law firm that represents the protections of the MNs to do something like this.

Also, we're not here to be a banking institution, giving out loans. How could we even begin to supervise this project?
No what HempSweet is proposing is the DASH block reward pay partial R&D costs to PureHemp Technologies, LLC, which is needed to scale production. As far as being held liable for any injury could be applied to any of these worker proposals. IMHO I think that fear generating statement is totally unfair since I've never seen this come up before for projects with exponentially higher risk. What if a central exchange gets hacked and loses all of the DASH because of one of the masternode's "workers" error? There is zero difference between what John and I are doing for the DASH network and any other human.

I will post what my month of April milestones are and John as well.
 

TanteStefana

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All the other proposals went through the core team. They have access to core team attorneys, or the Dash Foundation hired and retained Law firm. We have approved things like "pay for X number of videos" "sponsor our show" and help pay for me to install an ATM which I will run and take responsibility for, and I will give a discount to Dash users on". It's 100% different to

DASH Gives:
  • Dash blockchain/community pays a hemp biomass processor directly to complete development of the best specific biologic pathway and practices for industrial scale conversion of hemp xylose syrup to healthy xylitol sugar, becoming the first blockchain to directly fund a bio/mechanical engineering project in developing an open-source process for the public good. The full potentials of this are expounded in linked supporting materials. The results of this research will be open-sourced to the world (after an initial development period wherein only direct partners will have access) so it is not just to the benefit of HempSweet, but in the interest of putting this type of product into use worldwide, whether associated with HempSweet or not. Such payment could be viewed as paying a company to perform a charitable activity, since HempSweet is not the sole beneficiary, because the data will be open-sourced. The specifics of this activity are covered in the draft Hempsweet whitepaper http://bit.ly/hempsweet
  • Dash temporarily pays salaries and expenses of two HempSweet principals to shepherd and promote the project and Dash to the multi-billion dollar (and just getting started) hemp industry.
  • Attention and oversight of how the Dash contributed is spent vs the value the project gives.

We are not equiped to do this, and never will be.
 
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TanteStefana

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John came into the offices to meet with me this week and share his proposal. Here are some of the main points I expressed:
1) While the product may exist, the process for producing it at scale does not. This introduces significant risks that cannot be mitigated. There are no guarantees that an efficient process can be developed to extract the sugar from the plant at costs capable of competing with traditional sources of sugar. Dash could wind up spending approximately 15% of its annual budget on this project to wind up with absolutely nothing of value. This alone is an unacceptable level of risk in my mind, and an unacceptable portion of the budget to be allocating to high-risk, unproven agricultural technologies... a field that I (and likely most of the masternode owners) are ill-equipped to assess.
2) Even if they do succeed in creating the process, there remains the very difficult task of developing a supply chain and consumer market for these products, which may take several years. This introduces additional risk (and I suspect cost).
3) Dash has access to many markets and products that exist TODAY and are available to access TODAY, not years from now. And because these products and markets exist already, the benefit of funding them is immediate, and the cost to develop those markets is zero... the only costs we incur are integration expenses.
4) There are likely other sources of funding available to HempSweet that would be more motivated to invest. For example, cannabis growers (who happen to be cash-rich) may be interested in seeing a market develop for the stems and stalks that are currently waste in their business. New revenue streams are always welcome. There are countless growers they could approach to obtain this funding.
5) I think that the proposed solution may be too complex... there are multiple tokens, discounting schemes, etc. involved. I'm not sure the added purchasing complexity adds any value and introduces significant friction to the purchase process. This friction may inhibit the adoption of his idea, even if the R&D risks are overcome. It is also inconsistent with Dash's brand --- simple.

To be clear, I am supportive of HempSweets' efforts to introduce a new product that appears to be valuable. It's why I gave him my honest assessment of the challenges he faces and tried to help him identify funding sources that would have more incentive / motivation to support his cause. I personally don't feel that Dash is quite the right fit, especially at our current scale.

Yes, I'm afraid it doesn't feel like the right fit either, mostly because it's all over our collective abilities to assess fully. It's a great sales pitch, though, but when I take out the emotions I see too many traps, sorry!
 

mranderson010

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All the other proposals went through the core team. They have access to core team attorneys, or the Dash Foundation hired and retained Law firm. We have approved things like "pay for X number of videos" "sponsor our show" and help pay for me to install an ATM which I will run and take responsibility for, and I will give a discount to Dash users on". It's 100% different to

DASH Gives:
  • Dash blockchain/community pays a hemp biomass processor directly to complete development of the best specific biologic pathway and practices for industrial scale conversion of hemp xylose syrup to healthy xylitol sugar, becoming the first blockchain to directly fund a bio/mechanical engineering project in developing an open-source process for the public good. The full potentials of this are expounded in linked supporting materials. The results of this research will be open-sourced to the world (after an initial development period wherein only direct partners will have access) so it is not just to the benefit of HempSweet, but in the interest of putting this type of product into use worldwide, whether associated with HempSweet or not. Such payment could be viewed as paying a company to perform a charitable activity, since HempSweet is not the sole beneficiary, because the data will be open-sourced. The specifics of this activity are covered in the draft Hempsweet whitepaper http://bit.ly/hempsweet
  • Dash temporarily pays salaries and expenses of two HempSweet principals to shepherd and promote the project and Dash to the multi-billion dollar (and just getting started) hemp industry.
  • Attention and oversight of how the Dash contributed is spent vs the value the project gives.
We are not equiped to do this, and never will be.
I'm not going to give up on you @TanteStefana it seems like you are sooo close to seeing the value potential. The remarkable thing is because of this beautiful balance of computer-computer and human-human consensus Dash affords us, it is the only reason something like what we propose is possible. Literally all that has to happen now is 10% or more masternodes see what is right in front of us.

  • All PureHemp needs to start the work and lock in a commitment is DASH; which the 600-700k budget this month is more than equiped to do. They have more than enough human and mechanical resources to get the job done..........no other equipment or effort from Dash is needed.........except Dash.
  • To further ensure no further strain on the masternode/Dash community will take place and to make sure everything is done to make this a success, Dash will be providing small stipend for John and I to carry the load. We want the work and look at what has already been accomplished without the support of the most disruptive form of digital cash on the planet. If DASH takes the urgent stress of getting the "right kind of funding quickly" that we are currently faced with then we are now free to spend all of our time working as hard as possible to prove the long term goal is worthy of continued support.
  • Basically we will do month to month until we are either fired by the MN's or have brought in enough value to justify changing to a longer commitment (which we can still be fired from). So simply the masternode voters just have to decide whether we did what we agreed to for that month and are we effectively able to prove the value returned to Dash is equal to greater than the value going out.
 

CaptainPicard

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There is a bit to digest here. I feel like the community may not be ready for large proposals without building some track record first. The current setup seems to favor small projects right now. To have both a large project and a multi month project lowers your approval chances even more. I'm more curious what the minimum viable product/idea is, if you were to start smaller.
Fully agree with this.
 

oaxaca

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Yes, I'm afraid it doesn't feel like the right fit either, mostly because it's all over our collective abilities to assess fully.
This is the problem with full democracy. We are asking the masternode owners to actually read the material, digest it, and form an opinion. In the "real world", people elect ministers or senators or some such to handle this job for them. Here in Dash, it works a little differently. Masternode owners have responsibility to help govern, not simply earn part of a block reward for setting up VPSes.

Here is the punch line from the proposal:
-------------------------------------
Dash Gets:

  • A loop of commerce transacted in Dash within the hemp industry: Processor to farmer, processor to employees, farmer to suppliers, farmer to farm workers, manufacturers (who use processor's output) to processor, then to packing, wholesale, retail, consumer.
Isn't that why we a part of Dash to begin with?
 

paragon

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Oaxaca that level of adoption does sound great but it's pretty safe to assume even if Travis did convince all those people in the production cycle to accept Dash as payment which, with all due respect to Travis, I find a little hard to believe, in all likelihood most of them would just be converting the Dash to fiat right away
 
Oaxaca that level of adoption does sound great but it's pretty safe to assume even if Travis did convince all those people in the production cycle to accept Dash as payment which, with all due respect to Travis, I find a little hard to believe, in all likelihood most of them would just be converting the Dash to fiat right away
You may not understand how desperate a lot of the players on the production side are to be able to transact in some way OTHER than fiat. Can't bank, means farmers and others sitting on actual cash. Sounds nice, but it exposes them to all sorts of hazards from theft to "asset forfeiture" for having "suspicious amounts of cash", etc. Can't send it over the internet. There are significant players who are desperate and will incentivize others to use crypto (preferably Dash) if the critical mass can be approached and other on ramps built. We're trying to start the ball rolling from WITHIN the cycle, rather than having to get everyone going through fiat conversion.
 

paragon

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You may not understand how desperate a lot of the players on the production side are to be able to transact in some way OTHER than fiat. Can't bank, means farmers and others sitting on actual cash. Sounds nice, but it exposes them to all sorts of hazards from theft to "asset forfeiture" for having "suspicious amounts of cash", etc. Can't send it over the internet. There are significant players who are desperate and will incentivize others to use crypto (preferably Dash) if the critical mass can be approached and other on ramps built. We're trying to start the ball rolling from WITHIN the cycle, rather than having to get everyone going through fiat conversion.

I'm in favor of this aspect John and Travis, but you are asking for Dash to fund research and development and production of xylitol from hemp which in my opinion is not something Dash's DAO is intended to do. If you asked for money to promote and spread the use of Dash within the industry via incentives, I think the response would be different
 
If you asked for money to promote and spread the use of Dash within the industry via incentives, I think the response would be different
Actually, that is exactly what we are doing. The funding in Dash is key, and funding coming from a decentralized community is key as well. See HempSweet whitepaper for the logic of this. Pre-sale of the final product could also be part of the decentralized support. That will play a part later, closer to final production.

HempSweet will take first advantage of the research to produce our product, sure, but the system that will be set up will be open sourced soon, so it can be copied, with or without direct participation with us. Dash will be funding the development for the public good, internationally, and will be promoted as doing so (incredible PR). At the same time, Dash is putting a significant primer of currency flow directly into the veins of an industry desperate to experience just what Dash is offering. Look at it as priming the pump. Takes a bit of water in the line for the pump to get traction and start the flow.
 
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mranderson010

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Actually, that is exactly what we are doing. The funding in Dash is key, and funding coming from a decentralized community is key as well. See HempSweet whitepaper for the logic of this. Pre-sale of the final product could also be part of the decentralized support. That will play a part later, closer to final production.

HempSweet will take first advantage of the research to produce our product, sure, but the system that will be set up will be open sourced soon, so it can be copied, with or without direct participation with us. Dash will be funding the development for the public good, internationally, and will be promoted as doing so (incredible PR). At the same time, Dash is putting a significant primer of currency flow directly into the veins of an industry desperate to experience just what Dash is offering. Look at it as priming the pump. Takes a bit of water in the line for the pump to get traction and start the flow.
Thanks John for describing why it is important to give a little before we get a little. The primer analogy is perfect and here is another example of just the thought that DASH could shoulder the expense of R&D, which is always the most challenging thing for anyone investing and why the government monopolizes it with our own money (taxes) and then sell it to the highest bidder corporation (New drug development as an example), very quickly is changing my thoughts on when we can make all aspects of the research fully public. If the public "DASH community" pays for the data, then we can just toss out the 2 year period we originally needed for enough incentive needed by deep pockets to carry most of the cost of R&D, which was our original ITO plan to fund the R&D.

Basically, IF our proposal is approved AND all participants agree the venture is valuable enough to pursue beyond one month THEN HempSweet/PureHemp will open up all proprietary knowledge (Related to the Xylitol R&D) to companies (example: DASH entrepreneurs) to build out their own xylitol bioreactor plants in real time with PureHemp; think of how that could help the whole process of galvanize researchers around the world in a friction-less way. HempSweet-DASH will still have major market advantage because of what we are actively building out on the decentralized soft commodity futures market....but to get into that would likely do more harm than good at this point, for this current proposal of value.

Modified from Mary Poppins - A Spoonful Of Sugar Lyrics

In every job that must be done, there is an element of fun
You find the fun and snap, the job's a game
And every task you undertake becomes a piece of cake
A lark, a spree, it's very clear to see

That a spoonful of DASH helps the medicine go down
The medicine go down, the medicine go down
Just a spoonful of DASH helps the medicine go down
In a most delightful way

A DASH Core Dev feathering his nest has very little time to rest
While gathering his bits of code and crypto
Though quite intent in his pursuit, he has a merry tune to toot
He knows a song will move the job along

For a spoonful of DASH helps the medicine go down
The medicine go down, the medicine go down
Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
In a most delightful way

The Master Nodes that fetch the nectar from the Blockchain to the Treasury
Never tire of ever buzzing to and fro because they take a little nip
And hence (And hence)
They find (They find)
Their task is not a grind

Ah, ah, ah!​
 

mranderson010

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Here is an example of how myself and other market makers are building a USD:DASH gateway through a Decentralized Exchange (DEX): You can also test it out yourself by making an account here if you do not already have a BitShares account.

This is a tutorial that just was released less than a day ago:
It shows how you can use either the web interface or android app to control your DEX market bots. The thing I liked the most is he initially was going to use BTC:USD as the example, but went with DASH:USD DEX market.

As someone who beleives this community will find strength in other decentralized governance communities, I will spend whatever time is necessary to get your market making bots up and running. The DASH market was just recently started by Jonathon and I and already I've seen around a 20% gain......even with the sudden drop in DASH value.

Now I have the pleasure of introducing the new added features of the DEX platform that was paid, similar to our DASH treasury, by the BitShares blockchain. This is HERE TODAY working amazingly and ready for you to use it anyway you want. Without a doubt the BitShares DEX is the most advanced decentralized exchange that enjoys all the benefits of a blockchain (runs on one) and also all the flexability needed so all you creative types who see value in supporting decentralized, open-sourced, liberty empowering, permission-less technologies, can mold it any way that fits your needs best.

How much did it cost the Dash community to integrate and freely make available all of its powerful features---------Zero.
That is called synergy. we (Dash community) support them and they get stronger; the DEX gets stronger from our support and they intern make DASH stronger by making its ecosystem more secure and that much closer to breaking free of the chains we call "permission."​

The BitShares, 2nd most effective decentralized governance platform out there and does NOT compete with DASH on any level, wallet has been massively improving the UX and today's release is a new "steemit style" login, "quick buy" options ++

The advantages are:

  • Ease of use
  • Accessibility
  • Reduced complexity
As long as you choose a sufficiently long and complex password (use a password manager!), your keys are safe.



If you already have a regular Bitshares wallet, you can migrate to the new model (or use it in combination with the old) by using the 'Account model' form located under Account -> Permissions.




Go here for the full post and information: https://steemit.com/bitshares/@svk/bitshares-gui-release-2-0-170327#
 
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oaxaca

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...It kind of confounds me that we are in a business with no history and gall to build the world's new money, yet we want some kind of old school institution to work for us. Sure, we'll win some and lose some. We're dealing with other new entrepreneurs just like us building a whole new world. We HAVE to trust in someone ...
I hate to quote you Tante, but there it is. Would you be prepared to trust these guys now?
 

mranderson010

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I hate to quote you Tante, but there it is. Would you be prepared to trust these guys now?
This feels very similar to what Bitcoin felt like for me ~2012-2013; before that I could only fined people who immediately saw that same potential disruptive power through self reliance and decentralization of control. The new young dreamers with nothing to lose who took a risk, like me in some ways, and then there came a time when there was a choice in front of us and we felt it, but didn't know for sure what the choice was or where either path would lead. I have believed since experiencing the social fork that occurred for Bitcoin years ago, it would be both the sacrificial lamb and bridge for the new world we see coming and the old world that just cannot change fast enough. Based on how things have gone for Bitcoin I'd say it is serving its purpose by going from being a beacon of light and strength for many libertarians, volunarists, and anarchists to the Bitcoin we we all see today dominated by regulators, bankers, attorneys, managers and HR departments. Bitcoin will be that perfectly beautiful failure that will keep the meddlers occupied long enough for us to identify the errors, adapt and overcome.

DASH seems to have all the right upgrades needed to hedge a new path. Because without the right incentive for all participants then we will get the same result of centralization of power, influence, control, resources and there is nothing disruptive or novel about that algorithm. DASH has multipurpose reward for the hardware minded (miners), software minded (master nodes) and even a small (more than enough) portion for the visionary minded (Treasury). All with a optimal balance between each core element and risk with benefit. I know we are close, I feel honored to found my way back to that special time I felt before. I could totally be off, and basically seeing so many large stake holders voting for the same solutions many have seen and heard in bitcoin and now Dash does lead me to wonder. If that is where DASH wants to go, straight into the hollow belly of the beast and do better than what bitcoin already has done, then good luck and I wish you the best.

I will continue to seek out and support others who dare follow the less traveled path where we will likely find no ATM’s, credit cards, centrally controlled wealth, or humans entitled to control the value of others. I see evidence of our numbers growing and we all know it is coming. If there are enough of you left, here in this “decentralized” community then I implore you to question and resist the reflex to blindly follow even when logic and reason are no where to be seen.
 

TanteStefana

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This is the problem with full democracy. We are asking the masternode owners to actually read the material, digest it, and form an opinion. In the "real world", people elect ministers or senators or some such to handle this job for them. Here in Dash, it works a little differently. Masternode owners have responsibility to help govern, not simply earn part of a block reward for setting up VPSes.

Here is the punch line from the proposal:
-------------------------------------
Dash Gets:

  • A loop of commerce transacted in Dash within the hemp industry: Processor to farmer, processor to employees, farmer to suppliers, farmer to farm workers, manufacturers (who use processor's output) to processor, then to packing, wholesale, retail, consumer.
Isn't that why we a part of Dash to begin with?
I have no problem with that. It's the wording/responsibilities included in this proposal. Frankly, if it were only about "donating" funds to the project, that would be a totally different story. It's how this proposal is written, giving Dash MNs responsibilities that I object to. Sorry if that's not clear. I thought I was clear. As far as donating, then it needs to be evaluated if this will have a good chance at increasing Dash adoption enough to make up for the use of funds, which I am open to.

The way it's written, if something happens, if they manage their business badly, if these people build up debt, it looks like we'll be responsible to pay it off, or what if they do something else, people can sue us MN owners, or at least the ones that can be easily identified. I don't want to lose my house over this shit, sorry man!
 

TanteStefana

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I'm in favor of this aspect John and Travis, but you are asking for Dash to fund research and development and production of xylitol from hemp which in my opinion is not something Dash's DAO is intended to do. If you asked for money to promote and spread the use of Dash within the industry via incentives, I think the response would be different
This too. Your explanation of who you are, is fine, but the proposal needs to be simplified. "Will you donate to help us do this. We believe it will help the advancement of Dash in the ecosystem... blah blah blah."

The combination of all your posts on this thread and on Dash Central constitutes a contract, or could in a court of law. The law NEVER acts the way YOU think it will. Or hope it will. This is why I'm being a butt. I see myself getting into hot water with my family and possibly losing my home, incredible life stress as lawyers throw injunctions against me, leans on my house... yah, I freak out :) Sorry. Keep it simple silly!

It's also one of the reasons why Charlie Shrem's project, which initially wanted to kick back funds to the network from the project's income was cast aside. It creates all kinds of legal issues. The solution was to lower fees to our users because after all, that's the most beneficial for the ecosystem (and thus increases Dash usefulness and thus price = benefit to MN owners and miners and any holders/users)
 
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TanteStefana

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This feels very similar to what Bitcoin felt like for me ~2012-2013; before that I could only fined people who immediately saw that same potential disruptive power through self reliance and decentralization of control. The new young dreamers with nothing to lose who took a risk, like me in some ways, and then there came a time when there was a choice in front of us and we felt it, but didn't know for sure what the choice was or where either path would lead. I have believed since experiencing the social fork that occurred for Bitcoin years ago, it would be both the sacrificial lamb and bridge for the new world we see coming and the old world that just cannot change fast enough. Based on how things have gone for Bitcoin I'd say it is serving its purpose by going from being a beacon of light and strength for many libertarians, volunarists, and anarchists to the Bitcoin we we all see today dominated by regulators, bankers, attorneys, managers and HR departments. Bitcoin will be that perfectly beautiful failure that will keep the meddlers occupied long enough for us to identify the errors, adapt and overcome.

DASH seems to have all the right upgrades needed to hedge a new path. Because without the right incentive for all participants then we will get the same result of centralization of power, influence, control, resources and there is nothing disruptive or novel about that algorithm. DASH has multipurpose reward for the hardware minded (miners), software minded (master nodes) and even a small (more than enough) portion for the visionary minded (Treasury). All with a optimal balance between each core element and risk with benefit. I know we are close, I feel honored to found my way back to that special time I felt before. I could totally be off, and basically seeing so many large stake holders voting for the same solutions many have seen and heard in bitcoin and now Dash does lead me to wonder. If that is where DASH wants to go, straight into the hollow belly of the beast and do better than what bitcoin already has done, then good luck and I wish you the best.

I will continue to seek out and support others who dare follow the less traveled path where we will likely find no ATM’s, credit cards, centrally controlled wealth, or humans entitled to control the value of others. I see evidence of our numbers growing and we all know it is coming. If there are enough of you left, here in this “decentralized” community then I implore you to question and resist the reflex to blindly follow even when logic and reason are no where to be seen.
Honestly, I hope I made myself clear. make it simple. "will you donate" "this is why it's good for the ecosystem of Dash users" The rest is already written, just take the responsibilities for your project out of the hands of the Dash network and into your own, no kickbacks, nothing. Especially if you can lower the price by just accepting a donation. Lean and mean :) I can't say I'll vote 100%, but I'm way more inclined if my responsibilities are zero :) Then I can evaluate this proposal purely on what it can do for the crypto user base :)

Especially with people like @oaxaca and @camosoul and others behind it. And the fact that you're doing this on a monthly bases and not long term helps. I suggest you keep tabs on everything you do, and show it in your wallet (keep clear where funds go) so that next month, if you should win this month, you can use it as proof of how things are being distributed :) Actually, you could get in touch with the core team to find out the tools they use to keep their records of expenditures auditable. I don't think that's a lot to ask for such a huge project :)
 
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mranderson010

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Honestly, I hope I made myself clear. make it simple. "will you donate" "this is why it's good for the ecosystem of Dash users" The rest is already written, just take the responsibilities for your project out of the hands of the Dash network and into your own, no kickbacks, nothing. Especially if you can lower the price by just accepting a donation. Lean and mean :) I can't say I'll vote 100%, but I'm way more inclined if my responsibilities are zero :) Then I can evaluate this proposal purely on what it can do for the crypto user base :)

Especially with people like @oaxaca and @camosoul and others behind it. And the fact that you're doing this on a monthly bases and not long term helps. I suggest you keep tabs on everything you do, and show it in your wallet (keep clear where funds go) so that next month, if you should win this month, you can use it as proof of how things are being distributed :) Actually, you could get in touch with the core team to find out the tools they use to keep their records of expenditures auditable. I don't think that's a lot to ask for such a huge project :)
Transparent, immutable, auditable, and provable are some of the most amazing things about crytpo and that is definitely the plan. Since all income and expense happens on either DASH or bitShares blockchains we are able to satisfy the request no problem. Having one month to prove out everything we promise would be a huge and is totally doable. We could hold a vote as well and see whether the community wanted to receive the income tokens or not (which would be a donation then). We feel strongly about every participant in HempSweet should be given an opportunity to receive reward, but we are flexible. I liked the idea of a second treasury where DASH proposals could also request the value tokens as well and if approved they would also be paid out.

Here is a pic of the VALUE token, which you can look at here http://cryptofresh.com/a/VALUE




As you can see it is very easy to know exactly what is going on with the digital tokens we use.
 

oaxaca

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Mr. Anderson, tante is concerned about losing her house due to liability of the masternode owners over an industrial accident. Can you convince her that such a thing is impossible?

To me it would be like holding Nike Shoes shareholders accountable if somebody was hurt by a revolving door at a Footlocker in a mall.
 

mranderson010

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Mr. Anderson, tante is concerned about losing her house due to liability of the masternode owners over an industrial accident. Can you convince her that such a thing is impossible?

To me it would be like holding Nike Shoes shareholders accountable if somebody was hurt by a revolving door at a Footlocker in a mall.
Well we could spend a lifetime with the "what if's." With that line of thinking every masternode could be held liable for any accident that occurs where DASH was involved, since they are minting coins that otherwise would not be created and in a sense (since we don't know the difference between one DASH from another) they could be held liable for funding all rapists, murders, terrorists.......or depending on what country they reside they could be violating law for the act of minting coins. To me it makes a lot more sense that we are able to immediately resist whatever violent force who would try that path ..........look here abc agency ---The network is being used by millions of people who buy their groceries, pay their rent, receive for their salary; heck the blockchain allowed for the first open patent on an industrial tech that got food manufactures to remove dangerous sugars from their products, which cured 75% of chronic disease. Those who control the narrative control the people. How do we control the narrative, by surrounding us with as many honest, genuine, respected physical community leaders as possible. I stand open to the public with no fear because I know that I am truly never safe from forces much stronger than I, but as long as I focus on things that help humanity then the risk they would take on to attack me (saving lives for 20+ years, including a non-combatant medic military veteran, and family man) is much much higher.

Sure the random voting times, running your anonymous MN in a different country than where you reside (Why I liked Russia for mine), and all the other things built into Dash to protect innocent people from the horrors of what a few will do too keep power........yea they help a lot. But for me I would also like to have millions of regular people (voters for those politicians) using Dash every day who will stand up and support us because their livelihood depends on it. HempSweet-DASH and combined with BitShares (All of its merchant solutions that are gaining traction) is one very clear path for us to hedge our safety. I guarantee the centralized exchanges that are close to requiring blood samples and iris scans are not going to be their for the masternodes if you are ever attacked with liability as their weapon.
 

demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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Mr. Anderson, tante is concerned about losing her house due to liability of the masternode owners over an industrial accident. Can you convince her that such a thing is impossible?
No mercy for @TanteStefana.
She chose to be eponymous, she chose to have a static IP, she chose to reject TOR and anonymity for herself and for the masternodes. She chose the masternodes to be liable in front of the law and have no chance to hide or to escape.
Why is she whining now, because there is a risk of losing her house?
If this will happen (I really hope and wish it will never happen), she wanted it, and she deserves it.
 
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oaxaca

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demo, please do not quote me or have anything to do with me.
 

demo

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demo, please do not quote me or have anything to do with me.
Why not? You chose to talk in public, so you cannot avoid to be quoted.