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HempSweet Decentralized Industrialization Alliance Proposal

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by mranderson010, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Dash Adoption in Industrial Commerce
    A Dash Treasury proposal for Masternode consideration.


    (This is a concise statement of the proposal and agreement of HempSweet with the Dash Community. For those who wish to explore more deeply, much more detail can be found at the links in text.)​

    This is a cross-post from the Dash Forum http://bit.ly/DashMNproposal

    Manual voting (DashCore - Tools - Debugconsole):
    gobject vote-many 737ad8e7b92deb51af5a12f63e4e948f87759056ac5c4ca9154108e3138465d0 funding yes


    Who:
    HempSweet is a team with the sole purpose to find and implement new models for individuals and groups to organize and exchange value in a free, transparent, voluntary way using existing cryptocurrency, cryptographic property and other decentralizing solutions. HempSweet core team are Travis Remington http://bit.ly/TravisAprilDASHmilestones and John Ferguson http://bit.ly/JohnAprilDASHmilestones

    What: The creator of this proposal and owner of the single DASH receiving address provided, Travis Remington of HempSweet, respectfully requests a donation from the Dash Decentralized Governance Budget to further improve the overall quality of the Dash ecosystem and the health of all humans. HempSweet will use all donated DASH to research and develop large scale xylitol from hemp production technologies.
    • PureHemp Technologies, LLC and HempSweet have a signed contract (Includes both parties indemnifying Dash and all other participants against claims by third parties arising from conduct of any participants under this agreement) between both parties that includes all inventions they will create as part of scaling hemp xylose to xylitol conversion with microorganisms will be open, transparent and without restriction to use. This donation will support a core element of the hemp industry that will empower Dash, HempSweet, and all partnerships to leverage building meaningful, lasting connections with an industry ready to grow alongside Dash. Details about Pure Hemp Technologies and their complete roll are covered in the HempSweet whitepaper https://bit.ly/hempsweet.
    • Travis and John to work full-time as HempSweet’s core team, manage all community communication, marketing, travel to Hemp and BlockChain events, relevant related podcasts by John with Dash as a direct sponsor, speaking events, travel to meet with potential future partnership opportunities, promoting Dash donation as a key enabler of hemp industrialization and commerce at a commodity and production level, as well as a consumer-facing level.
    Why: While Dash is making good progress on expansion, it and other cryptocurrencies struggle to gain traction in commerce where fiat currencies, of course, resist the disruption. Likewise, the completely-legal hemp industry struggles from not being able to easily use the fiat system to engage in commerce within the industry or with retail customers. These restrictions are completely arbitrary and the result of blanket policies, but are very real in practice. Barriers between crypto and fiat at industrial levels are almost completely unsupported outside of centralized fintech funding, which likewise restrict industry participants. For the decentralized Dash community and blockchain to support the penetration of one small production cycle through the entire industrial hemp ecosystem (completing the loop of usage, so to speak) is an unprecedented opportunity for Dash to take the lead in industrial cryptocurrency usage, as well as consumer usage. It is certain that such a penetration will result in huge demand for and use of Dash. All cannabis (pot and hemp) industries are being constrained, even as they are permitted to operate, while centralized systems work steadily to co-opt their massive decentralizing potential.

    When: The time to act on this is almost exactly right for all market and social conditions. What is being proposed here is for funding of the initial month of executing the project only--to prove efficacy and value--with the intent to carry the project forward for a maximum of twelve months by renewed proposals, with full reports at every stage to ensure that each stage of proposed funding is warranted and being earned in terms of results.

    How much: Total $98,360.64 @ $91.84 per DASH (based on March 26th average rate at https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/price-dash.html)
    Total: 1071 Dash
    Note: Should any funding remain, we will apply it toward future development expenses.

    What is in it for DASH:

    HempSweet is focusing a non-contractual or binding alliance between Dash, BitShares and HempSweet, for synergistic effect far beyond what's covered here. See linked documentation for full data on the entire field of action.

    Following is a simple breakdown of the Gives and Gets for Dash, strictly from Dash's perspective.

    DASH Gives:
    • Dash blockchain/community supports a hemp biomass processor to complete development of the best specific biologic pathway and practices for industrial scale conversion of hemp xylose syrup to healthy xylitol sugar, becoming the first blockchain to directly fund a bio/mechanical engineering project in developing an open-source process for the public good. The full potentials of this are expounded in linked supporting materials. The results of this research will be open-sourced to the world (after an initial development period wherein only direct partners will have access) so it is not just to the benefit of HempSweet, but in the interest of putting this type of product into use worldwide, whether associated with HempSweet or not. Such donation could be viewed as a charitable activity, since HempSweet is not the sole beneficiary, because the intellectual property created will be open-sourced. The specifics of this activity are covered in the draft Hempsweet whitepaper https://bit.ly/hempsweet
    • Dash's donation also supports two HempSweet principals to shepherd and promote the project and Dash to the multi-billion dollar (and just getting started) hemp industry.
    • If this proposal is approved then another proposal will be made for next payment cycle and the masternodes will have to judge whether the project leaders have successfully completed their stated promises and whether further donations are appropriate.
    Dash Gets:
    • A loop of commerce transacted in Dash within the hemp industry: Processor to farmer, processor to employees, farmer to suppliers, farmer to farm workers, manufacturers (who use processor's output) to processor, then to packing, wholesale, retail, consumer.
    • Immediate demand for further on/of ramps to Dash, largely provided by the mutual alliance with BlockPay, OpenLedger, etc., as part of the plan. Also DASH ATMs have the opportunity and incentive to get up and running in related areas.
    • Dash gets rapidly positioned as the leading cryptocurrency enabling industrial (as opposed to consumer) commerce in an industry that is having severe pain points surrounding the use of fiat, though everything they are doing is completely legal in both US federal and state governments.
    • Dash will be a default store of value even when it is not preferred as a currency. Some will prefer to receive and give bitUSD (USD-pegged token) for accounting purpose. Through other agreements already in place with others, Dash will be a well-supported trading pair for bitUSD, allowing liquidity between the two.
    • Active, incentivized promotion of Dash within the industrial hemp community by HempSweet principals. This will be ongoing, of course, even after the Dash support for them ends.
    • Dash will have shown that it can go where no other cryptocurrency can, due to its governance model and the incredible community it encourages and incentivizes.
    • Dash will benefit hugely by supporting the alliance with the BitShares blockchain community as part of separate agreements already reached with BitShares market makers, as well OpenLedger and BlockPay.
    • There is intent to vest the Dash community or Masternodes in the future success of HempSweet by way of a separate profit-sharing token system, which should start to payout quickly as we are ramping up a pre-sale. This is not explicitly part of this agreement at this time because details are not finalized, but it is intended and will be provided.
    • We are quite sure there are more points that could be isolated, but these cover the most obvious ones.
    Worst Case
    Let's look at the worst-case scenario and see what there is for Dash to lose.
    The very worst case we see is something like this:
    • Dash provides funds for the initial research and support of HempSweet workers for the initial period, but the HempSweet plan is flawed and/or the HempSweet workers do a poor job of promotion and management and the project falls apart, with no path established to the full end result desired.
    In this case, minimally, whatever Dash was spent to pay for the research would be put directly into circulation within the hemp industrial cycle by being used to pay employees, buy raw hemp from farmers, etc. Each of those value transfers will have outgoing ripples as that Dash is spent to others, and then others, initially right within the hemp/cannabis industry itself. This being a significant amount of value, it could be viewed that the blockchain had wasted it by not getting the ultimate product intended. But because it is a significant amount of value, spent in exchange for valuable product and service by the processor/researchers, it is Dash value circulating in the ecosystem, creating more demand for paths to use it. It is arguable that this, all by itself, might be good reason to expend this Dash. It is quite likely that, even without anything else coming of the project, this Dash put in circulation in this way would create value far, far in excess of the 0.0149% dilution caused by the inflation factor (as compared to those coins not being created). Dash will have significantly broached use in this multi-billion dollar industry.​
    • The only worse scenario we can think of is that if the HempSweet workers somehow bring disrepute to Dash, or crypto in general. Failing to make a reasonable go of things would be a hit to us personally and damage our personal reputations and credibility, which we value. We would have to act very badly indeed to taint the image of Dash. The community will have to examine our past actions in the space, including the efforts we have expended on this plan, and judge if we pose such a great risk.
    Between these worst cases and success in excess of all expectations are many possibilities. We have put a tremendous lot of work and personal expense into establishing the means and relationships for this to happen and be successful, and are committed to take it all the way. It is hoped that Masternode owners will grasp the tremendous upsides potentials represented here.

    Respectively submitted,
    Travis Remington (@mranderson010) and John Ferguson (@John Ferguson), for HempSweet https://HempXylitol.com and https://HempSweet.net

    Please ask any questions you may have and consider voting YES! If you are unable to spend the time to fully evaluate our proposal documents and/or have difficulty understanding the scope of this proposal then please discuss with other masternodes who already have or consider abstaining.
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 mranderson010, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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  2. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    [​IMG] Travis Remington MPAS, PA-C -- has been in healthcare for over 20 years. He has practiced in Complementary/Integrative Medicine, Urgent Care, Primary Care, Occupational Medicine, Transplant Surgery, Hepatology, Nephrology, Acute ICU care, Plastic & Trauma/Cancer Reconstruction, and Orthopedic Surgery. He now is spending most of his time researching the integration of whole plant medicinal therapies to improve the quality of life for his fellow humans.

    My plans for the next month regarding HempSweet:


    (I plan to do these things as best I can even with no funding from Dash, but some may not get done if I have to do other things economically.)
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    • Further expand our list of interested businesses and further establish partnerships. The edible industry businesses have been very receptive to changing to a hemp based healthy sugar. Utilize my 20 years of practicing medicine to galvanize further medical professional support for reducing dangerous refined sugars and promote HempSweet Xylitol as an alternative.
    • Finalize HEMPSWEET--->VALUE share drop with dash-hempsweet multi-sig account
    • Security audit OpenLedger/BlockTrade’s current UIA open.DASH/DASH pairing smart contract.
    • Send proposal to bitShares treasury worker payout fund to provide further liquidity to bitUSD markets.
    • There are undoubtedly other projects to be done in coordination with HempSweet and associates that I can’t predict now.
    • Further expand and merge HempSweet.net and HempXylitol.com
    Specific targets can be put on the timeline for accomplishment, to report back to the community on regarding our actions and achievements, undones, etc.

     
    #2 mranderson010, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  3. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    John Ferguson -- bona fides and plans for immediate future in forwarding the HempSweet Alliance.

    Bona fides

    I’m a trained and experience proofreader and editor, effective in explanatory and persuasive writing, and have two podcasts on tech implications from a philosophical angle.
    • Have been active in the SAFE Network community for three years as a regular and trusted poster, and moderator. Less active lately, though still a standby moderator and occasional poster. See profile @fergish at https://safenetforum.org.

    • Have had a regular podcast about the SAFE Network development on the Let’s Talk Bitcoin network for about two years--SAFE Crossroads podcast.

    • For about a year I’ve had the Technology & Choice podcast, also on the LTB network, covering various topics technical and philosophical.

    • Recently started a series within Technology & Choice which is all about the technology and ramifications of hemp, called The Hemp Corner. So far there have been two such episodes (1, 2). More on future ones below.
    My plans for the next month regarding HempSweet:

    (I plan to do these things as best I can even with no funding from Dash, but some may not get done if I have to do other things economically.)
    • Continue the Hemp Corner co-hosted with Michael Bright, THC Hemp Connoisseur Magazine series with these episodes, minimally:
      -- All about hemp seed availability and farming, including current scene, scaling solutions, etc. Likely will include short interviews with hemp farmers as well as an analytical breakdown from those involved in the industry. Part of this will be about the difficulty of transacting because of arbitrary, central-bank created currency restrictions.
      -- An interview with PureHemp Technologies (biomass processor) CEO, talking about all aspects of why hemp is a vastly superior source of biomass, the production process, the different products such a processing plant does and can produce, about the plans to scale conversion of hemp xylose to xylitol and, of course, the troubles they face currency-wise, that have motivated them to move to cryptocurrency, especially Dash.
      --A podcast about the alliance at the appropriate time, as agreed representatives from each community.

    • All podcasts Technology & Choice podcasts will carry an ad for the Dash as a sponsor with mention/explanation of the alliance as appropriate, and what it means for the hemp community.
    • Will be attending Northern Colorado Hemp Expo, March 31 - April 1, in Loveland, CO. There I will be further networking with more industry people, getting more interviews, talking about HempSweet, Dash and the whole alliance (even if it is still just a possibility, rather than a done deal). I will, of course, be wearing whatever appropriate Dash swag I can acquire.

    • I will be writing an article for release to various outlets.
    • Will arrange interviews on several other notable podcasts/radio shows which I know will be very interested in what is planned and how it is developing. Certain ones of these are early shoe-ins. As the scene expands, I’m confident we can arrange even larger, more “mainstream ones.”

    • There are undoubtedly other projects to be done in coordination with HempSweet and associates that I can’t predict now.
    Specific targets can be put on the timeline for accomplishment, to report back to the community on regarding our actions and achievements, undones, etc.
     
    #3 mranderson010, Mar 21, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  4. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

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    how much ? :rolleyes:
     
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  5. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    I know it is a lot of information and it takes some time to go through it all. I'm an optimist so I'm assuming everyone is so overwhelmed with interest they have not made it back since first laying eyes on this proposal.

    One question, once we submit the proposal are we able to adjust the DASH payout amount.......since really that is the only thing that is keeping us from submitting this? Love it or hate it.......your opinion matters. :D
     
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  6. Jeff Cole

    Jeff Cole New Member

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    Hi Travis - this is Jeff Cole at PureHemp Technology. Our firm is firmly committed this project and to seeing it through to completion with you. Let us know what we may do to assist. Thank you - Jeff
     
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  7. John Ferguson

    John Ferguson New Member

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    tl;dr

    This is an intricate proposal, so a summation of the value given and received by the Dash community is needed as an entrance point.

    The proposal seeks to establish an alliance between the Dash community, the BitShares community and HempSweet (a project by Value Choice Research and Consulting). All parties will benefit greatly from the synergy created.

    In this alliance, Dash is called upon be the first blockchain community to directly employ mechanical and chemical engineers to do final research and set-up for scaling an open-source method to produce a physical, consumable product. It is also called upon to temporarily fund HempSweet principals full time in initial logistical support, planning and promotion of the overall project. The scope and ramifications of the project are pretty vast, but that's the start.

    In exchange, Dash will receive the following:
    1. Putting Dash directly into circulation in the entire production-cycle of hemp, including refiners, farmers, suppliers, manufacturers, end users of the final product, and more. These lines for acceptance and payment have already been agreed to by key players in the industry. This will be a major foothold in the industry as it is a complete cycle of exchange that all can (and are desperate to) participate in.

    2. More avenues to acquire Dash by scaling the BitShares decentralized exchange (DEX) to support liquidity for markets between Dash and other desired/in-use properties such as bitUSD (pegged by the market to the price of the USD).

    3. VALUE tokens, in proportion to Dash value paid out to the HempSweet project. VALUE is a BitShares asset. 100% of income received by HempSweet will be immediately disbursed, via share-drop, equally to all VALUE tokens in circulation. These will be sent into a 2 of 3 multi-signature account for which each community will share control of one key (able to scale infinitely on weight of each key holder's controlling the single community account key); the payout will be decided by the community attached to that account and, for DASH community's account, we suggest using the current treasury payout design that allows proposals to ask for both DASH and VALUE assets. These tokens and their capability for share-drop have been proven-out on the BitShares platform, which will further build up the stored value as our project evolves and brings in revenue. This is the mechanism for sharing value and control, in proportion to the contribution of each group.
    #1 above will itself have enormous value to Dash, by getting it IN USE in an industry which desperately needs it to be IN USE, regardless of the value of 2 and 3 (and others not detailed), which should be considerable over time.

    The inputs from BitShares and HempSweet are laid out in the pre-proposal and the proposal itself. HempSweet has already poured a tremendous amount of work into establishing the production paths and agreements involved.

    -----------------
    Hope this helps give a starting point.
     
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  8. Plateglassarmour

    Plateglassarmour New Member
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    Two things:
    1) To answer your question, you can not change the amount of funding for a proposal after it has been submitted, and it is difficult to get a multi-month proposal rejected after it has passed the first month.
    2) Because of this, the community is unlikely to agree to proposals for long durations (i.e. 12 months). If the proposals are 3 months or less, you will get a lot more traction in getting your idea passed. That way, the price of Dash is less important.

    I just don't want you to waste your proposal fee on a project that is unlikely to be passed in it's current state.
     
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  9. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    Thank you for clarifying it. Yes we figured since this will be the first proposal of its kind that we will do only one month so everyone involved (including us) can get a more solid idea of the exchange of value for each.
     
  10. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    good idea
    +
    your proposal is amazing and very detailed
    but
    most people do not have time to "study" a proposal
    clear short / facts are key
    - who
    - what
    - when
    - how much
    - whats init for us ;)
     
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  11. Populandum

    Populandum Well-known Member
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    I'm actually sitting here in awe of what you are proposing! I think it would be a BIG mistake of us all to not use this opportunity! We can actually grow both the financially-suppressed hemp industry along with Dash! I see this as a success story where we actually get the real first use of crypto on a big scale! Think about it: Dash saving an entire multi-billion dollar industry which many banks don't want to support because of the FED.
     
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  12. oaxaca

    oaxaca Well-known Member
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    This is exactly the kind of big thinking that is needed to gain real world adoption. I have been advocating a full circle of Dash use in a community for a long time. If you choose to ask for a single month of financing, what milestones or feedback can we expect before the 2nd subsequent vote? If you ask for 3 months, be aware that it is possible to downvote an initiative for any reason whatsoever. A few loud and mobilized voices could probably get that done.
     
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  13. Icebucket

    Icebucket Active Member

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    You will need to do some PR to get this through, these are huge numbers you are asking for and you might need to build up some sort of trust before it will even get considered. Maybe ask @TaoOfSatoshi to do an interview with you so people can get the elevator pitch.

    One thing that I wondered about, what will happen to Pot Coin ?
    Thought this was their space, why is that coin not the industry standard and if this space is so underbanked, why has Potcoin not gone to the moon by filling up that gap ?
     
  14. Populandum

    Populandum Well-known Member
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    Because Potcoin, cannacoin or whatever other one of those are just gimmicks. You want your currency to be general; like Dash.
     
  15. John Ferguson

    John Ferguson New Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions. An interview with Travis would be a good idea.
    On Potcoin: well, it's in the name. Dash is digital cash, designed to be used broadly as money. The HempSweet project addresses the non-marijuana (pot) part of the cannabis industry, which has vast other uses. I'm not against the pot (or Potcoin) but it's a much more tangled path and associations complicate the promotion. The US is already one of, if not THE, leading importers of hemp products. We're just starting to do the growth and production. This industry is going to be huge and is immediately mainstream, non-controversial, etc. But it suffers form banking complications because of the association with the drug form. It is a completely different set of cultivars but the prohibition has caused scrambled brains, making commerce for the hemp producers and processors miserable. Dash can help.

    Potcoin just complicates things. Plus Dash has a real and ubiquitous future. Potcoin is a one-problem solution. Don't get me wrong, I've no malice for them. Also, as liquidity of and access to decentralized exchanges increases, which is one of our purposes as well, even potcoin will gain liquidity and people who want to use it will be more able to. It's about increasing choice.
     
  16. GuerraDiValute

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    I would like to see some correspondence with @babygiraffe @TaoOfSatoshi on this if possible.

    Much to consider here.

    I will hold my tongue and votes for a while longer during my period of consideration.
     
  17. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    Thank you for such kind support and really communicating well a huge value potential that is just one part (huge) of our entire proposal offer. I'm a stickler for accuracy so I will just add that it is aparently a trillion dollar industry. I have always said billion, but after John's interview the other day with a hemp industry leader she said "trillion": https://bit.ly/TCWorkForHemp

    I am mobile right now for some yoga.....my way to deal with the late nights and early mornings spent trying to make this proposal be the level of quality that it needs to be so to equal what we are asking from the community. When I get home I'll jump back on and address any specifics that John has not already covered.

    The DASH community has never let me down and the quality of questions and advice from everyone here on the forum, texts, telegram, and slack is amazing. Words for my appreciation are difficult to find. Thank you!



    Here is my letter to @TaoOfSatoshi

    Hello Tao of Satoshi,

    I am one of the core team members of HempSweet and a lot of the project came from my vision to see mass adoption of crypto for regular people (99% of the world who are not in Finetech central bankers). When I first met Amanda B. Johnson and heard her presention on DASH it caused one of the best decisions I have ever made. After meeting Amanda I immediately bought 1000+ DASH and after a week of setting up a masternode in Russia (yea I'm from the US, but like to keep things decentralized:) I was well on my way to learning everything I could about the vision of the DASH community and the core technology.

    It has been a long process of developing out HempSweet. Before we saw the full vision of HempSweet I knew for the USA that there was one huge opportunity for crypto and that was with the un-banked/cash-only cannabis world. After spending months researching the industry, using my 20 years of practicing medicine to gain network contacts, and trying to localize the biggest pain points, I discovered many truths of what is going on in the cannabis world. Big pharma, Big banking have bought the farm (literally and metaphoricaly) and already own a big part of it............except one tiny appearing part that luckily seems small compared to marijuana cannabis right now in the US and was ignored. Hemp is now projected to be a trillion dollar industry and things are happening fast. If someone or some community in the crypto world does not act fast and capitalize on the central banker's mistake of ignoring hemp then we are going to miss our window of opportunity.

    Right now we have the technology, industry partnerships and resources to solve a massive list of pain points for the Hemp Industry and in doing so we will have gained an partner for life. DASH and Hemp can "grow" their industry's together in a voluntary mutually beneficial way and use each other's strength's to non-violently dominate a commodity market that in its total is value is over 200 trillion dollars.

    Here is our Pre-Proposal to the MN network voters: http://bit.ly/DashMNproposal


    I would love to interview with you anytime. Best way to get a hold of me is PM in forum, telegram @mranderson or email [email protected]

    Sincerest respect,

    Travis Remington
    Co-Founder HempSweet
    https://HempXylitol.com
    https://HempSweet.net
     
    #17 mranderson010, Mar 24, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  18. ampp

    ampp Member

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    There is a bit to digest here. I feel like the community may not be ready for large proposals without building some track record first. The current setup seems to favor small projects right now. To have both a large project and a multi month project lowers your approval chances even more. I'm more curious what the minimum viable product/idea is, if you were to start smaller.
     
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  19. Fiicus

    Fiicus New Member

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    Hemp, is legal in the US, the company is offering legal products, to consumers. There is nothing illicit about hemp, however, because hemp comes from cannabis, it is treated poorly by banks and others. Now, while I would be slightly concerned if dash was offered on a black market, I think grey markets are an ideal spot for us to offer our services, as grey markets need Dash. From what I've read, hemp products are legal, but growing hemp is where things get a little shifty as it's much like cannabis, legal in some states but still against the law federally, I don't know much about all of that, so I'll refrain from talking much about it, perhaps others can expand exactly on the legality of things as I'm nowhere near an expert on this stuff.

    Now, what I do know a lot about is online poker, it's a grey market, where playing online poker is federally legal (a few states have laws against it), but what isn't federally legal, is the poker sites transacting with US banks. The reason I bring this up, is because I imagine that the hemp industry is facing similar banking issues, perhaps not quite as drastic as what I'm about to outline, but I'm sure there are considerable issues which made them choose Dash. Withdrawing money as an online poker player was terribly inconvenient, slow, risky, etc. If you wanted to get a w/d, you could, but only through VFFs for $2500 4x a month (sometimes these would take over a month to arrive, eventually they stopped offering them as an option), or international checks for $3000 4x a month (which also at times took a month to arrive, so some months you could only get 1 withdrawal). Not only that, but checks would bounce. I had a $3000 check deposited in May, it bounced in July, and I wasn't reimbursed until late August, when the site reimbursed me I had to request another check, which took another week to arrive. This is very troubling, because in the online poker world, sites go down, the government seizes funds. In 2011, the government shut down the 3 largest online poker sites, one of them paid the players back almost immediately, another paid out roughly 3 years later, and the last one took the money and ran. In 2013, I had to open a canadian bank account because the poker site I was on got shut down by the gov, and they refused to pay out to US bank accounts (I'm the only person I know who got money off the site, for the most part they just never paid anyone back, in this case I was lucky to live near canada at the time).

    For online poker operators, the banks they have to work with to provide us with checks, are often the most down and out banks, because they have to skirt the law to provide us with funds. Because of this, the banks tend to steal funds and run at some point, which sounds outlandish, but is entirely true. The poker site bears that situation as the cost of doing business in this market, along with the large fees charged by the banks (usually the player has to pay about $50 per withdraw, and the site also has to pay some amount). I have friends who have had bank accounts closed due to the bank finding out they were online poker players, I've heard stories of people being grilled by bank managers, and most online poker players depositing a check know that if they're asked what they do by the bank, you say that you're a online consultant or some other nonsense.

    When the poker sites brought in bitcoin, it was like the world got brighter. I had 100k in my poker account, a buddy has 100k in his, other friends had considerable amount on there, that they just couldn't w/d fast enough. I want to stress that having 100k on a site, which could really go down any day, and even if you never made another dollar it would take you 8 months to w/d assuming checks are steady, is a ridiculous situation to be in (first world problems?) As soon as bitcoin entered, it had a $9500 limit, every 3 days, with 0 fees. We could access our money, it was amazing. All of my friends in the online poker world, have come to love bitcoin because of this. You'll never see as ardent a supporter as someone who has a ton of problems in their industry, and then the vast majority are instantly solved by cryptocurrency. I've met other online poker players who found their way into dash because they were w/ding from the online poker sites in bitcoin, and that led them to further researching cryptocurrencies. Obviously, the smart people end up in the Dash world ;). Anyway, bitcoin for online poker has brought at least a few, but I suspect quite a lot of people into dash. I do not know anything about the hemp industry, but even if they just used bitcoin, it would bring people into dash. I have no idea how many people would be flooding into Dash, if this proposal is to pass and they're to conduct a lot of their business in Dash.

    I think Dash would absolutely benefit from working with the hemp industry, and even the legal cannabis industry as it starts to propagate around the country. I also strongly believe that if we don't take an opportunity like this, assuming it's legit, which it truly seems to be, someone else will jump on it. I feel, very strongly, that in industries where banking is very difficult, Dash should absolutely try to proliferate in those spaces as quickly as possible. I believe that while the proposal is very ambitious, and it's hard to trust people who haven't made proposals before, we have a lot of treasury funds to use thanks to our recent growth, and the exposure from this would be enormous. Ethereum is on alphabay, monero is used a lot on the dark web, bitcoin is used for online poker and various other things. If we don't allow ourselves into these spaces, someone else will take that opportunity and grow in them. It's not like the gov would specifically prohibit dash in these spaces, they'd likely take an overall approach, still, perhaps it's best to keep a distance from black markets. So the way I see it, we can not participate and lose out on a cut, or we could participate and further the public's awareness of Dash at relatively no risk to ourselves.

    To be clear though, I have not researched the individuals behind this proposal, or the exact mechanisms of it, I'm only providing my experience in a similar market, so that people can understand exactly what sort of problems these markets tend to face, and why it makes perfect sense to embrace this win/win scenario assuming the fundamentals behind the proposal are sound.
     
    #19 Fiicus, Mar 24, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
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  20. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    Based on the feedback from community leaders we will do a one month commitment that allows for the lowest risk with an opportunity to show a glimpse of the huge potential benefit. We have been proving ourselves to the decentralized ecosystem for years and very quickly John and I will outline specific milestones we each have planned for the next month. We will also have PureHemp post their one month roadmap plan.

    HempSweet is proposing game changing events that secures DASH a foot hold into a billion to trillion (Depending on who you ask) dollar industry that no other crypto-currency has been successful in getting uptake (Many, Many have tried). DASH is now #3 on the list for highest crypto-currency market capitalization. I know the MN proposal list looks to favor smaller capital commitments and they are all amazing, but none I think give DASH the unique quality needed to further separate itself from ETH/BTC and effectively communicate its true value.

    Our minimum viable product is our online stores that only take DASH for crypto and charge a massive premium for buyers who insist on credit cards. We have already linked many different points to our customers on how to learn and acquire DASH. Additionally, the main reason why our pre-proposal and attached documents is so long is we had to cover all the things already created through hard, hard work that help add value to the project and DASH as a whole. It is not until now that we are asking immediate help to keep our core partnership with PureHemp Tech alive and strong.


    Wow I couldn't have said it better myself thank you. Here is a copy of an email I just got two days ago from another shady "payment processor" that is referred to me. I have got a couple more of these that are as much as 4k upfront and 2k/month to do the same damn thing I was getting for free. They all admit that 100% of Hemp products are legal and why the big name gateways like strip, Authorize.net, paypal will directly refer to their "high risk merchant partners"

    In case you might not understand what is going on here, IMO they are exploiting the hemp industry for every drop of value they can suck from it. My attachment is just one drop in the bucket full of friction and pain points that we will solve.

    our https://hempxylitol.com site doesn't even have CBD for sale on the site so they changed the excuse to "CBD themed...." What the guy said on the phone was the picture of the hemp leaf was suggestive of illegal use. My response was "how in the hell do I educate people on how we are making xylitol from hemp, without showing people a picture of hemp?"
     

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    #20 mranderson010, Mar 24, 2017
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  21. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    I have to call it a day, but will be back tomorrow. This was a really good set of questions asked on slack and I wanted to share them here with my answers of course:

    @mranderson Plus, the only thing "DASH" is funding is a hemp refinery to develop large scale production of a healthy sugar (learn about at http://hempxylitol.com/health.html ) xylitol that has been known for well over a hundred years and commercialized since 1960's and legal in every country on the planet. The only reason it hasn't taken off more is scalability and more importantly because it displaces the sugar industry, big pharma. Then you add in we are using hemp, which displaces big pharma, oil (anything petro can do...hemp does better), paper industry.....to name just a few. We purposefully selected this product as our first because it is the safest, non-controversial product that will help billions of people suffering from chronic disease caused by refined sugars and artificial sweeteners.

    darkcoin
    Why should we turn down a great business opportunity just because it involves hemp industry? It's a legal product even. We're not "going down that road", but just funding actual use of Dash. It could be anything being traded really, but this has a lot of potential because of the banks blocking their business.. Isn't that exactly what crypto aims to solve?
    Posted in #proposalsToday at 12:05 AM
    hempxylitol.com
    HempSweet - Health Benefits of Xylitol
    Xylitol is an amazingly healthy sugar, but adoption has been slow due to the difficult process of making it from Birch Hardwood or Corn. Now that Industrial Hemp and the 50,000 different uses of it, has returned to the USA.......we will change the way we use sugar.

    paragon [6:49 PM]
    @mranderson whenever u get a chance I'd appreciate if u could answer my above questions

    mranderson [6:50 PM]
    I apologize if @fergish already addressed this. What we are asking is for DASH to fund PureHemp Technologies, LLC http://purehemptech.com which includes their parent company Pure Vision Technology Inc that has been in the biomass industry (long before hemp) for over 20 years http://www.purevisiontechnology.com/about

    Dang just figured out I have to hit ctrl enter to start new line. I will include my answer to your specific question with regard to HempSweet and returning value back to DASH for the investment in another post.
    paragon
    @fergish @mranderson Could you clarify your business's history and current financial state? Correct me if I'm wrong, it seems you are asking Dash to fund HempSweet in exchange for a percentage of your business profits as well as your most sincere attempt to spread the use of the Dash within your industry? Could you explain in more detail how Dash can be assured the profit-sharing will be fair and how we can be assured you indeed have sufficient connections to your industry's biggest players that you will indeed be able to achieve significant levels of Dash adoption?
    Posted in #proposalsToday at 11:41 AM
    purehemptech.com
    PureHemp Technology LLC - converting industrial hemp and biomass to diverse bio-products
    PureHemp biorefineries will convert industrial hemp and other locally grown biomass into many diverse bio-products, create sustainable agriculture opportunities for farmers and provide abundant green jobs.
    purevisiontechnology.com
    The Pure Vision of PureVision Technology, Inc.
    PureVision Technology is a biorefining R&D company developing and licensing technology packages for the lowest cost production of sugars, lignin and pulp from diverse non-food biomass to industries manufacturing biobased products.
    (edited)


    mranderson [7:04 PM]
    I will expand in more detail on our profit sharing scheme with graphs and such later, but basically because HempSweet is using digital token assets (UIA) on the BitShares platform to track all income revenue, orders, where it is in the production stream, etc, all of our "business" will be open to everyone to track and verify; we are decentralizing as much as we can including open patents so to further encourage collaboration and adoption. This is all on the Graphene Blockchain that runs the DEX (They are doing stress and security tests now that already show ~4,000 transactions/second and 30k+ operations/second) that is immutable, transparent, and auditable by anyone at anytime. ALL revenue into HempSweet will go directly into an account that will then share drop it out equally to every "VALUE" token in circulation. We will be setting a 2 of 3 multi-sig wallet that one DASH core developer, one DASH forum leader, and one HempSweet rep will hold (You can scale further multisigs on top with up to 10 accounts per signing key). That DASH-HempSweet multi-sig account will receive their portion of VALUE tokens as they are paid out with any capital paid out directly from the DASH network.
    paragon

    @fergish @mranderson Could you clarify your business's history and current financial state? Correct me if I'm wrong, it seems you are asking Dash to fund HempSweet in exchange for a percentage of your business profits as well as your most sincere attempt to spread the use of the Dash within your industry? Could you explain in more detail how Dash can be assured the profit-sharing will be fair and how we can be assured you indeed have sufficient connections to your industry's biggest players that you will indeed be able to achieve significant levels of Dash adoption?
     
  22. Ryan Taylor

    Ryan Taylor Well-known Member
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member

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    John came into the offices to meet with me this week and share his proposal. Here are some of the main points I expressed:
    1) While the product may exist, the process for producing it at scale does not. This introduces significant risks that cannot be mitigated. There are no guarantees that an efficient process can be developed to extract the sugar from the plant at costs capable of competing with traditional sources of sugar. Dash could wind up spending approximately 15% of its annual budget on this project to wind up with absolutely nothing of value. This alone is an unacceptable level of risk in my mind, and an unacceptable portion of the budget to be allocating to high-risk, unproven agricultural technologies... a field that I (and likely most of the masternode owners) are ill-equipped to assess.
    2) Even if they do succeed in creating the process, there remains the very difficult task of developing a supply chain and consumer market for these products, which may take several years. This introduces additional risk (and I suspect cost).
    3) Dash has access to many markets and products that exist TODAY and are available to access TODAY, not years from now. And because these products and markets exist already, the benefit of funding them is immediate, and the cost to develop those markets is zero... the only costs we incur are integration expenses.
    4) There are likely other sources of funding available to HempSweet that would be more motivated to invest. For example, cannabis growers (who happen to be cash-rich) may be interested in seeing a market develop for the stems and stalks that are currently waste in their business. New revenue streams are always welcome. There are countless growers they could approach to obtain this funding.
    5) I think that the proposed solution may be too complex... there are multiple tokens, discounting schemes, etc. involved. I'm not sure the added purchasing complexity adds any value and introduces significant friction to the purchase process. This friction may inhibit the adoption of his idea, even if the R&D risks are overcome. It is also inconsistent with Dash's brand --- simple.

    To be clear, I am supportive of HempSweets' efforts to introduce a new product that appears to be valuable. It's why I gave him my honest assessment of the challenges he faces and tried to help him identify funding sources that would have more incentive / motivation to support his cause. I personally don't feel that Dash is quite the right fit, especially at our current scale.
     
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  23. paragon

    paragon Member

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    I agree with Ryan and posed the below question to Travis in the #proposals slack chatroom earlier this morning (which he hasn't yet gotten to):

    Do you think it might make more sense to ask Dash to fund you to promote/spread the use of Dash as a currency and a payment method throughout your industry which has difficulty with the traditional banking system rather than asking Dash to fund your company whose goal is to extract or produce xylitol from the hemp plant which has no connection to Dash's purpose?

    If you could provide Dash with ample reason to believe that you indeed could promote significant Dash adoption within your industry, I think you might find many of us possibly in favor.
     
  24. John Ferguson

    John Ferguson New Member

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    Funding directly for promoting Dash is part of it, and might be something we could do otherwise, but the picture is a lot bigger. See next post, shortly.
     
  25. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. ---Albert Einstein

    First if someone does not see or believe there is a problem, then it is impossible to communicate a solution in anyway that will ever be understood.
    Second, if that quote does not make sense then what we are presenting has very little chance of having any real meaning to you. That is perfectly okay, but please consider just abstaining your vote because how can you make a decision of support or non-support if you do not understand what you are reading.

    We all are using the same English language here, but I think our largest challenge is communication. I am dedicated to providing a future for my children where the solutions we create today include everyone or frankly they just are not worth creating. I have seen and experienced great value in leveraging free, transparent, permission-less, self-empowering, decentralized-control technologies, and why I have spent every single moment of the last 5 years looking for an opportunity to prove that what we are building here and leveraging massive risk of our most valuable resource (our time) is genuine, honest and offers everyone who voluntarily participates something they can use to empower their own special unique life. How do I "promote" something as money if it is controlled by a few who think they know more than everyone else how to use that language of money and entitlement of authority of what is valuable? How can anyone promote any technology (coins, banknotes, promissory notes, IOU's, sea shells) as money if it does not provide any improvement on technologies humans are already using to communicate value to each other?

    The reason why I finally see a way to truly promote a crypto-currency, DASH specifically, and why I'm here today openly sharing this opportunity in the most selfless way I possibly can is because I know that this simple act of 99k worth of DASH (that otherwise will just be wastefully destroyed) created will be a catalyst for change that will unite the potential in all of us and give real tangible meaning to express to the world why DASH is the solution to the problem many in this space preach they understand. Many people have asked for the elevator pitch of what HempSweet offers. Well here is mine:
    HempSweet is the first opportunity for everyone who believes enough in DASH to move forward in-spite of all traditional logic telling us it is impossible and who also see DASH's value as much more than a payment service, to actually give the other 99.9% of the world an elevator pitch about DASH that actually has meaning with substance.
    The way I see it is if I cannot successfully express value to enough people here that hold the power to create true change with nothing more than a single click of a button (that alone has inspired me) then I stand zero chance to express the value of crypto to any person. If you are going to dismiss this value proposition, then at least give me and all the people who have selflessly given their time the respect by first reading our words (where there is an answer to every question that has come up) and make a judgment based on your personal perspective. Frankly, if you cannot make an informed decision or opinion on your own effort, then I ask you make none at all with regard to our proposal.

    I see my ultimate ownership of HempSweet as about the same level of ownership anyone of us can claim over DASH. Without standing on the shoulders of greatness who have cut a new path for humanity, DASH or HempSweet would be nothing and be able to provide nothing. When approaching the quality of life of every human, which HempSweets solution of curing the largest destructive force in existence (sugar), I see value in a spreadsheets of risk, profit, loss.

    If you believed enough in DASH to lock away such large value required to be a master node, then I have faith that if you approach this proposal in the same way you did when you took that risk then whatever decision is made will be the right one.
     
    #25 mranderson010, Mar 25, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  26. Kevin Stalker

    Kevin Stalker Member

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    Its much too long. The first bit took so long to say that you were going to sum it up in two sentences that I didn't get to them. I simply dont have the attention span needed to read all this guff. Sorry - its just me. No - really. I'm really really sorry. I'm going to get into trouble for this comment. But I cant help it. Far too many words.
     
  27. John Ferguson

    John Ferguson New Member

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    (This is a long post because it has to be. It our the last substantial post on the subject before we complete formulating a proposal, so it is hoped that MNs will take the time to read it, and if interested, look further into other posts. Any additional feedback would be appreciated. We understand there is a lot to consider, but the worst-case results below are worth considering as well.)

    As @babygiraffe states, I met with him last week and presented an overview of what we are trying to do. He was very gracious with his time and attention, amongst his many other concerns. I gave him a copy of our whitepaper, but our exchange was mostly verbal.

    As a CFO, Ryan shares the appropriate initial inclination to respond to any request for spending an organization’s money: “No.” I have absolutely no beef with that because it is his job.

    Under the circumstances his response is completely understandable. What we are proposing IS a sizable expenditure from the Dash Treasury. There are a number of factors that make the plan, especially as I presented verbally, hard to follow without really digging into it. Even then it’s a lot to take in. With his busy schedule and my explanation, I’m sure Ryan has not had the chance or inclination to dig into the details and see the larger possibilities, as compared to the downside risks.

    We decided to post what we’ve posted on the forum and Slack to get feedback from the MasterNode community, to see what traction is there and what modifications we need to make to be a workable fit for all. The response from those who have taken the effort to dig into the plan has been quite positive overall.

    Meaning no disrespect to @babygiraffe, I’m responding here to some points which I do not feel are clear.

    “1) While the product may exist, the process for producing it at scale does not. This introduces significant risks that cannot be mitigated. There are no guarantees that an efficient process can be developed to extract the sugar from the plant at costs capable of competing with traditional sources of sugar. Dash could wind up spending approximately 15% of its annual budget on this project to wind up with absolutely nothing of value. This alone is an unacceptable level of risk in my mind, and an unacceptable portion of the budget to be allocating to high-risk, unproven agricultural technologies... a field that I (and likely most of the masternode owners) are ill-equipped to assess.”

    First, there is absolutely no question that the process can be scaled in this manner. Tests at smaller scale have showed very positive results. The purpose of the research is to isolate the exact best combination(s) of yeast/bacteria, temperature, acidity, batch cycle-time, etc., necessary to allow a completely automated batching for optimum, reproducible results at large-production level. PureHemp Technologies’ scientists are fully capable of accomplishing this, and have done so on other processes in the past.

    Second, while the long-range hope is to compete with refined sugar, the immediate and target is to undercut the unsustainable and unscalable production of xylitol with a superior, hemp-derived product. Beyond that, the field is wide open for expansion along with the hemp industry.

    “2) Even if they do succeed in creating the process, there remains the very difficult task of developing a supply chain and consumer market for these products, which may take several years. This introduces additional risk (and I suspect cost).”

    The mechanics of the supply chain are already largely in place and initial demand it already huge, not just for the retail, but for liquids and bulk for production of sodas, edibles, etc. Expansion will drive and fund itself and require more work in the future, but initial demand is already in place, ready to consume.

    “3) Dash has access to many markets and products that exist TODAY and are available to access TODAY, not years from now. And because these products and markets exist already, the benefit of funding them is immediate, and the cost to develop those markets is zero... the only costs we incur are integration expenses.”

    This is certainly true. What is lacking though, and what we are trying to bring to the table, is to directly involve the producers as well as the consumers in the cycle of Dash currency flow. Almost everyone who touches “hemp” is being squeezed in their ability to transact value. This starts with the producers. If we open up their ability to transact easily, starting with a direct exchange for value, we open many, many outgoing ripples within the industry, starting immediately. We want Dash in direct use as much as possible, rather than always having to interface with existing Fintech. This is a direct, opening move in a much bigger picture that goes way beyond what we are directly doing with HempSweet, and boosts the use of Dash in the hemp industry right away.

    “4) There are likely other sources of funding available to HempSweet that would be more motivated to invest. For example, cannabis growers (who happen to be cash-rich) may be interested in seeing a market develop for the stems and stalks that are currently waste in their business. New revenue streams are always welcome. There are countless growers they could approach to obtain this funding.”

    Ryan’s input on these options is very valuable and we are pursuing them. However, the point of pursuing the course of funding by the Dash community is to establish an ongoing currency cycle within the hemp industry. The cycle is really this: Dash becomes the first blockchain to directly pay industrial engineers and scientists to produce open-source research which will benefit not only HempSweet, producers all over the world. That Dash is then used to directly pay farmers for their crops and employees for their word. Farmers then use that Dash to pay seed and equipment suppliers, etc., all the way through to manufacturer and wholesalers.

    “5) I think that the proposed solution may be too complex... there are multiple tokens, discounting schemes, etc. involved. I'm not sure the added purchasing complexity adds any value and introduces significant friction to the purchase process. This friction may inhibit the adoption of his idea, even if the R&D risks are overcome. It is also inconsistent with Dash's brand --- simple.”

    I understand this perspective, but I’d like to point out that Dash IS complex, under the hood. We’re looking under the hood and tuning a production/exchange cycle with channels we are establishing. The focus is on simplicity at every endpoint, but currently the pain in the industry will allow for slightly more complexity to begin with, if it will alleviate the pain of being choked out.

    “To be clear, I am supportive of HempSweets' efforts to introduce a new product that appears to be valuable. It's why I gave him my honest assessment of the challenges he faces and tried to help him identify funding sources that would have more incentive / motivation to support his cause. I personally don't feel that Dash is quite the right fit, especially at our current scale.

    As I say, I do understand Ryan’s perspective but feel that there is a huge opportunity here which would be worth the risks.

    We will be making a proposal for three months to begin, with reporting on timelines and production before each pay out. This will allow the MasterNodes to defund us at any time we are seen as not returning value. This provision has already been agreed to by all relevant parties, to be reflected in writing.

    So let us examine the worst-case scenario. Say that the project fails to make a decent showing along the way and are defunded.

    The Dash community will have enabled a historic of a blockchain directly funding chemical engineers and scientists to execute research for the advancement of open source industrialization. Succeed or fail, this is a notable, newsworthy event. The Dash MasterNodes will have been the first DAO to have a make/break degree of oversight on an industrialization project. Again, historic and newsworthy.

    The largest portion of the Dash expended will be to PureHemp Technologies for its research. That dish will go into direct circulation in the hemp industry to pay farmers, employees, etc., thus setting a precedent and opening the flow in the industry. Again, big news, much interest, and increased attention and use of Dash in a multi-billion dollar industry which is being choked on the fintech side. That alone will give additional traction to Dash’s other efforts to set up fiat interfaces and other direct use of Dash.

    Payment to the two HempSweet principals will have been promoting Dash, the Dash DAO, etc., in the hemp industry and generated a lot of interest. Barring heinous behavior on our part (for which we have shown no precedent), there is little downside on the promotion value of this. It will result in interviews, events, etc. An article in The Hemp Connoisseur Magazine is assured as my co-host on The Hemp Corner of the Technology & Choice podcast is the CFO of the mag.

    We fully intend to take the project all the way, but these are the worst-case scenerio.

    Thanks for your patience,

    John
     
  28. paragon

    paragon Member

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    Maybe I see things differently from others but, in my mind, Dash's treasury funds should be used to build, run, improve and promote Dash. I don't really see how funding your research and your agricultural processing business with the hopes that you'll be able to spread Dash adoption and gain media attention is something that will be worth the massive investment and risk you're asking us to take.

    I also wanted to question Travis's claim that unused funds in our budget are wasted. If we don't use money in our budget, that means there is less inflation and more purchasing power retained by all Dash holders
     
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  29. Kevin Stalker

    Kevin Stalker Member

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    ok - out of respect for babygiraffe - i read it all. Probably a good thing. However I will be voting no, as far as I can see, because:

    - Partly, I don't like long wordy proposals that try to be persuasive before getting to the important bit
    - Partly, its a lot of money
    - Mainly, if it were a safe and legal place to put money you wouldn't be unbanked, nor would you be short of investors. Its almost certainly very dangerous to our long term survival to be putting money into this. I think its only a matter of time before governments try to use legal intervention to control us, and this would be a perfect place to start.
     
  30. Stealth923

    Stealth923 Well-known Member
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    I must say, I agree with the above - too many moving parts, proposal is too hard to read / follow.

    Asking for massive funding for no guarantee of any deliverables. Additionally this is to fund a business that does not correlate or mesh with the Dash brand well.

    Too complex of a structure for this to be successful and looks very risky. Totally agree with @babygiraffe - if this proposal is up I will be voting no.
     
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