Development Update - June 2, 2015

Minotaur

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Please let me know before we do that cause I will move it out of alpha. I was just playing with layouts. Should have known better then to give out the link. HAHA.

Anything else need more explaination? How'd I did alex-ru ?
Hi coingun, this is really cool... but the stages described for the voting/budgeting system are an earlier version, before Evan found a way to do it better... as described by him here and in the OP of this thread: An update to the proposal (May 8, 2015): https://dashtalk.org/threads/vote-s...vernance-by-blockchain.4825/page-4#post-53665


Those stages no longer apply, we are going directly to a decentralized system there wont be any multisig address or anything like that. That part really needs to be updated in your document as it is different now and can be misleading if we release to the public in its current state.
 
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coingun

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Hi coingun, this is really cool... but the stages described for the voting/budgeting system are an earlier version, before Evan found a way to do it better... as described by him here and in the OP of this thread: An update to the proposal (May 8, 2015): https://dashtalk.org/threads/vote-s...vernance-by-blockchain.4825/page-4#post-53665


Those stages no longer apply, we are going directly to a decentralized system there wont be any multisig address or anything like that. That part really needs to be updated in your document as it is different now and can be misleading if we release to the public in its current state.
Thanks for clarification. I've been following every word of every thread and have no idea wtf was chosen as the last version of the official version. I'll update that asap.

Edit: I keep following that link and I can't see what update you guys are talking about? I just get a big VOTE banner.
 
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Minotaur

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OK, so I just had a thought/question. What happens when the supper block is mined as far as minners payment and masternode payment. Is it like winning the lottery? supperblock = supper payments?
No lottery, they get the normal block reward.
 

Minotaur

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Thanks for clarification. I've been following every word of every thread and have no idea wtf was chosen as the last version of the official version. I'll update that asap.

Edit: I keep following that link and I can't see what update you guys are talking about? I just get a big VOTE banner.
Scroll down a bit, is Evan's post there, also the description on this announcement is of course valid.
 

moli

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Thanks for clarification. I've been following every word of every thread and have no idea wtf was chosen as the last version of the official version. I'll update that asap.

Edit: I keep following that link and I can't see what update you guys are talking about? I just get a big VOTE banner.
LOL.. Pay me with DASH and I'll be your secretary to inform you what'sup with Dash... :tongue::D

HOW COULD YOU MISS THAT INFO !!! :tongue:
 
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coingun

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LOL.. Pay me with DASH and I'll be your secretary to inform you what'sup with Dash... :tongue::D

HOW COULD YOU MISS THAT INFO !!! :tongue:
It's so burried then it's commented on and the comment over rides the previous comment. That is why i'm making an attempt at giving an overview. Info is only good if it is understood.

So how should it read can't someone just paste it for me? LOL Just to make sure we are all on the same page.
 

alex-ru

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It's so burried then it's commented on and the comment over rides the previous comment. That is why i'm making an attempt at giving an overview. Info is only good if it is understood.

So how should it read can't someone just paste it for me? LOL Just to make sure we are all on the same page.
eduffield,May 8, 2015
An Update To The Proposal

It dawned on me how to update the existing system to get the best of both worlds a fully decentralized system that pays exact amounts directly from the blockchain. We also figured out how to improve the decentralization of the proposal viewing application, so that anyone can run one of these websites independently of each other without having to copy data around. Between these two improvements, the initial version of the budgeting software will be highly decentralized and without any escrow account.

Proposal Website Decentralization

Anyone can start off a proposal by submitting it from a masternode. The data required consists of ProposalName, ProposalURL, PaymentCount, StartingBlock, PaymentAddress and PaymentAmountUSD. The ProposalURL is a json object with a ShortDescription, LongDescription, PDFURL and any other fields that are required to show users.

The site will be able to show this information, something like “mnbudget show”, which will return the following:


{
"one" : {
"URL" : "http://www.dashpay.io/proposals/one.txt",
"BlockStart" : 1000,
"BlockEnd" : 24922,
"PaymentCountTotal" : 1,
"PaymentCountLeft" : 1,
"PaymentAddress" : "yDrdpBqfExiGbssu388t2k3N3de2KsWeNN",
"Ratio" : 1.00000000,
"Yeas" : 1,
"Nays" : 0,
"Abstains" : 0,
"Alloted" : 7500000000,
"TotalBudgetAlloted" : 7500000000
}
}

It will pull down the url and cache all of the information in a database. Notice proposal administrators must host the json object with the data about the proposal, this allows highly decentralized storage of the information in the proposals. Users can then register on the website, then post comments about proposals.

To allow people to submit proposals from these proposal websites, the website will have access to a masternode, that can submit it for the users. This means we’ll have a very friendly website for building these json files, which can show drafts to the community. Once a draft has been finalized, it can be submitted. After it’s submitted, this is non-reversible and these fields can’t be modified without losing all votes.

Removal Of The Reference Node

It’s a high priority to ship the first version with no reference node. We’re going to use masternode quorums to select the payee of each block. This means that 10 of 2500 masternodes will randomly be selected to have a task of voting who they think should get paid each block. We’re going to use a deterministic algorithm to select the payee, so all nodes should come to same conclusion.

How The Network Will Pay Proposals

To remove the escrow account and pay exact amounts we can use a spork to send the current USD value of DASH to the network. This process can be decentralized later, but is out of scope for the initial version. After the network has the correct value to use, we can then reduce the blockreward of all blocks by 10% and at the end of the cycle the network can pay the proposals their exact own amounts using very large blocks, which will catch it up with the required block reward.

Here’s an example of what this will look like, let’s say we have this budget and a $3 DASH price:

PropOne, Reward $8000
PropTwo, Reward $8000
PropThree, Reward $5000
PropFour, Reward $4000
PropFive, Reward $900

Total $25900 (Total budget is $25920.00 at 10%, notice there’s $20 left over)

we’ll use a static block reward of 5 for simplicity:

Block 300,000 - Miner reward 2.47, Masternode payee 2.025 (a total reward of 4.5, when the target reward is 5)
… 17280 blocks pass (1 month) ...
Block 317280 - Miner reward 2.47, PropOne payee 2666.66DASH
Block 317281 - Miner reward 2.47, PropTwo payee 2666.66DASH
Block 317282 - Miner reward 2.47, PropThree payee 1666.66DASH
Block 317283 - Miner reward 2.47, PropFour payee 1333.33DASH
Block 317284 - Miner reward 2.47, PropFive payee 300.00DASH

---

I don't think anyone will have an issue with changing to this system, as it's far superior to the existing one. If you do, simply change from vote from Yea to Nay.
 

coingun

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"we can use a spork to send the current USD value of DASH to the network."

What does this even mean? LOL The spork pays the network. Come on someone TL;DR for me. Ya'll say you know how it works. Prove it.
 

moli

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It's so burried then it's commented on and the comment over rides the previous comment. That is why i'm making an attempt at giving an overview. Info is only good if it is understood.

So how should it read can't someone just paste it for me? LOL Just to make sure we are all on the same page.
Key #1 if you want to know what Evan or any dev said last (except crowning, i can't see her posts from her profile page), follow them by checking on their posts, like this: https://dashtalk.org/members/eduffield.104/
 

coingun

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eduffield,May 8, 2015
The problem is trying to take what he still wants to keep from the initial description and over ride what we want from the update. I am having a really hard time putting it together into one contiguous thought.
 

ichigo13

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It's always quiet before the storm.

Well done as always.
 

TaoOfSatoshi

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Fashionably late to the party again, very busy these days! My eyeballs enjoyed the pleasure of reading that tremendous update, can't wait to test it and then see it in action. You know when eduffield maintains radio silence for a while, something big is coming down the pipe!

Here's to a successful #DGBB and Version 12!

Cheers,

Tao.
 
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coingun

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"we can use a spork to send the current USD value of DASH to the network."

What does this even mean? LOL The spork pays the network. Come on someone TL;DR for me. Ya'll say you know how it works. Prove it.
Ok i'm replying to myself cause nobody else is filling us in so they must not know either. I think this is sort of how it is happening. Almost need a beer just to process this comment...

crowning said this:
I'm not exactly happy that we change the Dash emission rate, and I've never been a friend of "super-blocks", however I see that this is a reasonable compromise to make most Masternode owners happy.
The general public WILL be confused because there's additional Dash made out of nothing, inflation critics will show up etc...
It makes me quite happy that YOU are the one to explain this :tongue:

Minotaur said this:
This is not how I am understanding the system, what I am gathering is the reward goes down for a period of time... so the emission briefly slows down... and then when the time to vote comes... the system prints a super block to fund the projects but there is not additional money created is just the portion that the network did not create while on the slower emission... and after that super block then the emission catches up and matches the current emission curve so that there is no change on emission or additional inflation... The advantage this way is there is no need for an escrow account or for money sitting idle, but I dont think there is any additional money created.... Now take this with a grain of salt, as I have not confirmed with the developers... but is just how I read the announcement.


Sorry if this is glaringly obvious for some but I don't think it is for others and the explanation should be right when it goes out so I really want to update things.

So we are approaching the end of the month and their are some proposals up for voting. As we approach those blocks we start carving off 10% of the masternode's current share of each block? By carving off I mean we stop paying it (essentially not generating those new funds holding them back). It is then these funds that are used when the super block would be generated to be able to pay the proposals. Now I guess these funds at the time of the super block just get mapped basically proposal funds deposited to proposal address. Anywhere close to right?
 
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JGCMiner

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This is my understand based on Evan's comments in that thread and the first post in this thread.

1. The block reward will be permanently reduced to 90% of its current value. This for all blocks (other than the superblocks) for all time. MNs will eventually get 60% of this 90% and miners 40%.

2. At the end of the month the MNs would have voted on some projects and prioritized the ones that were approved.

3. If the total cost of funding all approved projects is <10% of the current block reward then that exact amount is generated in a superblock and payed directly to the individual projects. The difference between 10% and the actual amount needed to fund all approved projects is NEVER generated. Thus in this case, compared to current expected number of minted coins -- LESS coins are minted.

4. If the total cost of funding all approved projects is >10% of the current block reward then the top X number of projects are funded based on the priority set by the MNs. Then exactly 10% is generated in the superblock and payed directly to the individual projects. Thus is this case, the total number of coins minted is UNCHANGED compared to the current expectation.
 

thelonecrouton

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In order to eliminate having a multisig account sitting there with a balance of coins waiting to be executed (what people were calling a pork barrel)
The multisig account was not the pork barrel, it was just an additional risk. The pork barrel is alive and well, as any proposal with a single vote could still get into the funding queue if the 10% total budget is otherwise unallocated.

Finalized Budget

Once each month, a finalized budget will be suggested by the network. This is simply calculated by taking the list of budgets, sorted by “Yes Count”, then adding them to the final budget until 10% of the monthly reward is reached.
There's no minimum approval threshold at all, just more votes = higher funding priority.
 

JGCMiner

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The multisig account was not the pork barrel, it was just an additional risk. The pork barrel is alive and well, as any proposal with a single vote could still get into the funding queue if the 10% total budget is otherwise unallocated.



There's no minimum approval threshold at all, just more votes = higher funding priority.
Although it hasn't been explicitly stated I am under the assumption that he meant that things would be ordered in terms of yes votes if and only if the proposal had achieved a simple majority....

In any event, I am sure a minimum threshold of some sort will be added as allowing things with 1 vote or even 5 votes to make the list is rather absurd.
 
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UdjinM6

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What are they?
Some are already there
- detect denominated but not yet anonymized balance properly or both (GetAnonymizableBalance)
- fix progress calculation by using GetAnonymizableBalance
- do not count MN-like inputs as anonymizable
- denominate faster: if there is enough new inputs after DS started (their sum is greater then "already denominated but not yet anonymized balance")
- allow small amounts to be used in CreateDenominated (modified SelectCoinsDark) but only if they are larger then 1 CENT
- do not use collateral inputs in CreateDenominated (modified SelectCoinsDark)
https://github.com/dashpay/dash/commit/6e229e16ff0ddac5c98c49a6e772d572239d3d2c

some are not yet merged, WIP
- Randomize denoms calculated out of vecAmounts. Should help to find partners faster/more often and maybe slightly improve anonymity also.
....
https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/347
- fix issues with locking coins and not unlocking them properly (mostly on failures)
- prevent fast keypool exhausting on DS failures
....
https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/348
 

camosoul

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The multisig account was not the pork barrel, it was just an additional risk. The pork barrel is alive and well, as any proposal with a single vote could still get into the funding queue if the 10% total budget is otherwise unallocated.
I've harped about it enough. There comes a point where you just have to admit that some people want to shoot themselves in the foot so badly that letting them learn the hard way is the only useful application of your time and efforts.

Let the fuckups reap it.
 

BrainShutdown

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Although it hasn't been explicitly stated I am under the assumption that he meant that things would be ordered in terms of yes votes if and only if the proposal had achieved a simple majority....

In any event, I am sure a minimum threshold of some sort will be added as allowing things with 1 vote or even 5 votes to make the list is rather absurd.
Can someone from the dev team please clear this doubt and kill the pork barrel ghost once and for all? :rolleyes:
 

fulltimegeek

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The multisig account was not the pork barrel, it was just an additional risk. The pork barrel is alive and well, as any proposal with a single vote could still get into the funding queue if the 10% total budget is otherwise unallocated.



There's no minimum approval threshold at all, just more votes = higher funding priority.
Is this confirmed to be true?

So the 10% is ALWAYS going to go to proposals that have the most "YES" votes?

What if all proposals suck? What is the point of a "NO" vote?

Won't people with the most masternodes just vote themselves more money? So basically, if you own 51% of all the masternodes you can vote to receive 100% of the proposal funds since it is impossible for another proposal to have more YES votes aka MOB RULE.

Can someone please reiterate exactly how proposals are elected since this would determine if I should continue or not with supporting this project.
 

JGCMiner

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Is this confirmed to be true?
It is very likely NOT true as it would defeat the entire purpose of setting up a governance system (which the devs have obviously spent a lot of time coding to bring about) if a single vote out of 2600 could award a project money. That just makes no sense, and I am pretty sure Evan has done enough to prove that he is not that foolish. Anyway, let just wait for him to respond...
 

David

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Is this confirmed to be true?

So the 10% is ALWAYS going to go to proposals that have the most "YES" votes?

What if all proposals suck? What is the point of a "NO" vote?

Won't people with the most masternodes just vote themselves more money? So basically, if you own 51% of all the masternodes you can vote to receive 100% of the proposal funds since it is impossible for another proposal to have more YES votes aka MOB RULE.

Can someone please reiterate exactly how proposals are elected since this would determine if I should continue or not with supporting this project.
Nobody owns 51% of the masternodes. And what you call mob rule is more frequently known as "democracy."
 

coingun

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Calling eduffield it would be nice to get some clarification on the few points left over here. We are trying to make sure when this is all written about in the press we have it right an honestly there is still some confusion among core members who have been in the discussion all along so I think we need some official word just to clarify things. I'm still waiting for some clarification that JGCMiner had a legit reply after mine about the 10% block reward.
 

fulltimegeek

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Nobody owns 51% of the masternodes. And what you call mob rule is more frequently known as "democracy."
A purely democratic system never has worked and never will. There is a reason why the USA was founded as a constitutional republic and became a shining beacon to all the world until the yeast in government rose. Nor does the word democracy ever appear in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence. A pure democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Ben Franklin

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” Thomas Jefferson

“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” John Adams

If Evan is trying to push Dash towards a purely democratic governance, I will fight tooth and nail against it.
 
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