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Development Update - June 2, 2015

Discussion in 'Official Announcements' started by eduffield, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. coingun

    coingun Active Member
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    Couldn't it be argued that the Human is the problem is the democratic equation? Due to to their inability to leave emotions out of it? Perhaps this is the best form of democracy one ruled by the machines. How else is skynet going to start?

    You mention "If Evan" is trying. You do remember that it was the voters inside the class that asked Evan to continue. He simply put it up for debate and the majority decided to support it? How does that have anything to do with Evan pushing anything? Free markets move as they please. Sure he nudges it here and there but he isn't trying to make more decisions he is trying to build a protocol to allow us to govern ourselves?
     
  2. stan.distortion

    stan.distortion Active Member

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    Maybe this needs a new thread to save spamming this one up with political arguments, the discussion on what point was reached with figures is an important one to have right.

    The definition of democracy's been distorted into all shapes and forms over the years, its practically hypocrisy to call what we have in politics today democracy so it could be worth bearing in mind what was the norm when those quotes where made, pitchforks and flaming torches could be considered the ultimate form of democracy and building a platform that could accommodate that... ;) The platform's the important bit, if 80% think 51% ruling over 49% if wrong then it gets changed, maybe 75-25, maybe something floating, who knows? The means of bringing up issues, discussing them, gauging consensus, seeing results, its an evolutionary process.
     
  3. fulltimegeek

    fulltimegeek Well-known Member
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    This may be a little off topic but one more thing that has been on my mind is vote bribery.

    Should votes be anonymous to prevent MNOs from selling their votes to third-parties (lobbyists)? I believe James D'Angelo from World Bitcoin Network(WBN) calls this "The Cardboard Box Reform". Here is a great video from WBN's YouTube channel discussing the matter:

     
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  4. stan.distortion

    stan.distortion Active Member

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    Lol, noscript was blocking the vid and had a link to another of his copied ready for a reply before seeing it :)

    Started a new thread to reply here:
    https://dashtalk.org/threads/voting-system-and-difficulties-with-democracy.5077/
     
  5. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Moderator
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    As I recall, Evan wanted to set up a quorum, a minimum number of MN votes, and then, from those, 51% required to pass a proposal. As it is, though, many proposals will likely not see the light of day as funding can not exceed 10% of block rewards. On the other hand, if DASH should go up in value significantly, many projects would be able to be funded. In the end, if DASH is worth a fortune each, 10% of the block rewards could end up being a pork barrel. But I hardly see that happening any time soon. The funds are pretty much desperately needed just for core development, not to mention marketing.

    I've said it before, but if it should end up that the funds available far exceed DASH needs, those funds could always go back into the block rewards over time for even distribution.

    I don't like the idea of funds being wasted, but I think this setup is very strong, and if it starts to look wasteful, I'm sure we could patch it up via a solution such as I've stated above. Masternode owners do NOT have to vote for everything that is proposed. They should have, in my opinion, a guide to determined if the project being proposed is something that should be funded in the first place by the community, or if it's a project that should be funded by interested parties (in other words, all projects should benefit DASH as a whole, not just a few insider people).

    Anyway, I've tried compiling 0.12.0 but it's just forking the test network, LOL.
     
  6. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Moderator
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    Actually, I think this is 110% on topic. And in fact, this is why DASH is not being set up as a democracy. The way this will be set up, is Masternode owners, who have a great investment in the success of DASH, will actually make the votes, not unlike being an electoral college. The website being set up for proposals will have forums where the projects will be hashed out by everyone. If it works as intended, all points of view will be welcomed, discussions will happen, and in the end, conclusions will be made. These arguments will be used to persuade Masternode owners to vote a certain way. In fact, it could be included to have a forum vote, to show support or lack there of to masternode owners. However, like the electoral college, if the masternode owners see things differently, they can vote against the popular vote (and I can only see this happening if the popular vote were unwise or detrimental to DASH.)

    I really like all those quotes you've posted, and believe me, Evan and company are well aware of these issues.
     
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  7. coingun

    coingun Active Member
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    Am I maths'ing wrong here. 60+40 != 90?

    Other then that are we going with this as the official description?
     
  8. coingun

    coingun Active Member
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    Ok I sound pretty stupid reading my old posts. It's like I'm going from understanding to not understanding. I think the hardest part for me to wrap my head around was how we are talking about "the network" doing this and "the blockchain" doing that. When really it's the fact that we aren't doing something that is actually doing something. IE: Not paying the 10% daily to be able to pay it at the end of the month. Seriously how high did Evan have to get to figure this out. It's elegantly simply and so very brilliant. I have with a lot of help from moocowmoo re-written this page now that I think summarizes it pretty well.

    https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=94

    Cause Math's cool! How'd they get the 8000 dash a month number? Again this is all moocowmoo

    5 * 576 * 30 * .1 = 8640 Dash per month
    min block reward * blocks per day * days * 10% = 8640 Dash per month
     
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  9. darkpassenger

    darkpassenger New Member

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    Seems like a valid point. Isn't the blinding supposed to give the needed anonymity to transactions? Surprising indeed to see no mention of it in a next major release.
    The removal of the reference node seems the only big step forward.
     
  10. thelazier

    thelazier Active Member

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    In my understanding, Masternode blinding is good to prevent attack to masternodes while the anonymity of transactions are already done by darksend mixing. For users who would like to create tx from anonymous place , proxy or tor network can be used as option by the wallet to connect the network
     
  11. darkwing

    darkwing Active Member

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    The voting/payout system is a huge and important undertaking too.

    I mentioned the blinding as it was described as the best thing since sliced bread and lowered the darksend rounds required but then didn't materialise.
    With everything going on it's understandable that the complexity it would introduce to the new system would be painful but a status/roadmap position update on it would be good.
     
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  12. coingun

    coingun Active Member
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    Some more updates from Moocow regarding the shift in payment schedule:

    https://masternode.me/downloads/dash-block-budgeting.png
    https://masternode.me/downloads/v12_reward_calc.txt

    every 16616 blocks a cycle occurs, each cycle may create up to 100 superblocks. Superblocks are paid out in order of vote count.

    They're stepping the block rewards down 2.5% at a time across 6 months https://github.com/dashpay/dash/blob/eaf7b940a68f5176f90fb4e2db8ca460a060a0d9/src/main.cpp#L1544

    and the masternodes cap at 50% (changed) https://github.com/dashpay/dash/blob/eaf7b940a68f5176f90fb4e2db8ca460a060a0d9/src/main.cpp#L1575

    node payments stay at current levels for the next 9 months https://github.com/dashpay/dash/blo...b4e2db8ca460a060a0d9/src/main.cpp#L1573-L1574

    So to recap our minimums will drift from 2.25 to 2.025 across those 9 months sorry, forgot to remove the 7% -- 2.089 is minimum now -- will drift down to 1.88 brace yourself. Payouts are as good as they're going to get.

    MN reward schedule changed in v12. Capped @ 45% for 9 months, today's minimums are the largest we'll see.
     
    #72 coingun, Jun 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2015
  13. elbereth

    elbereth Active Member
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    I will try to provide binary builds of Dash from now own, when possible.
    For the moment you can find 0.12.0 builds here:
    https://dashninja.pl/builds/dash/0.12.0/

    Don't use this on mainnet and just use it on testnet to see the new wallet!
     
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  14. Sub-Ether

    Sub-Ether Well-known Member

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    I promise so much not to use it on mainnet :D
    Updating ...
    (Btw, 3 virus scanners show 100% clean)
     
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  15. moli

    moli Grizzled Member

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    You will be forked off if you use it on mainnet? :)
     
  16. Sub-Ether

    Sub-Ether Well-known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. moli

    moli Grizzled Member

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    LOL
     
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  18. elbereth

    elbereth Active Member
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    Finished compilation of v0.12.0.0-30-ge1ba34c for Windows, Linux and OSX.
    I only tested win64 so far.
     
    #78 elbereth, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2015
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  19. elbereth

    elbereth Active Member
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    #79 elbereth, Jun 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2015
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