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Why only a certain number of masternodes vote for budget proposals?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dmitriybtc, Apr 8, 2017.

  1. dmitriybtc

    dmitriybtc Active Member

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    Hey guys, I have a question that recently one of my friends asked.
    Why only a certain number of masternodes vote for budget proposals?

    I mean, right now we have 4249 MN, and on average only 1000-1200 (23%-28%) of them actually vote (the combination of yes, no and abstain).

    Why is that? Is it because some MN just simply don't vote at all or there's some other reason?

    Even when there was a block size limitation proposal, only 2147 of all MN voted (2129 Yes / 18 No / 0 Abstain). Obviously at that point the number of MN was lower but still want to know the answer for this one.

    I'm curious about that because that's a solid amount that don't vote.
     
  2. dashly

    dashly Member

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    It would have to be simplified to get higher turnout. If it was an integrated tab in the wallet where users could just click on a yes/no radio box there would be much higher voter participation.
     
  3. Walter

    Walter Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

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    It's a combination of factors I think... The most influential being that of voter apathy, if the vote already looks like it's going to pass then what's the point? (not my argument, just supposing here! I vote all the time). It's common in western democracies for voter turnout to be < 50%, even for general elections. However, when an important decision needs to be made, where it's looking like a close call then voter turnout will spike. It's just human nature, I'm sure if something contentious was up for vote in the budgets and it was close then we'd see turnout rise.

    It's not helped in the case of Dash where voting numbers are published in real time. I'm sure if voting was 'blind' until it came time to publish the results and process the superblock then we'd see far higher turnout figures ;)

    Walter
     
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  4. dmitriybtc

    dmitriybtc Active Member

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    Okay, that's interesting to know. I had no idea about that. I guess each country has its own culture and habits of doing certain things.

    Thanks a lot for your reply, I really appreciate the good work of all of the masternodes.:)
     
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  5. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Remember, when voting you should not only take into account what you personnaly believe. Your final vote depends also on what the others are thinking.

    The best tactic is to vote the last minute, because then you know what all the others have already voted. And if the result is ok for you, better abstain rather than vote. Because this makes the others think you are used to abstain, so you have the advantage of the last minute voting surprise in the next votes.
     
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  6. Anonymous Dude

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    I haven't setup my thing because it asks for my masternode private key. I'm not sure what Dash.org can do with my masternode private key therefore I'm not gonna set the thing up until I get some clarification.
     
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  7. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Dont give your private key.
    They claim that they will not use it, they claim that they destroy it after they autherticate you, but all this is a matter of trust.
    They may not do that, they may keep files with everybody's private key.
    Then they may spot the lurkers, those who dont vote usally, and they may vote on behalf of these people.

    The masternodes who give their private key, this is not only against them, it is also against you, against everyone in the community.

    Thats why I have already proposed two things:
    1. To have a third private key especially for voting.
    2. The masternodes who voted yes in a scam project, to pay the cost.
    They are both governace proposals, but unfortunately I have not 5 dash to propose them in the budget.
     
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  8. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    You mean the dash.org masternode operator thing? It asks for your public key, not your private key. You need your public key and then a signed message -- your private key is not exposed. If you are referring to dashcentral.org (not dash.org) for voting, your private voting key is encrypted in your browser, so dashcentral does not have that either.
     
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  9. Anonymous Dude

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    Well that answers my question. I guess I'm better off then by not touching that voting system :)
     
  10. Anonymous Dude

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    Yes the dashcentral.org, and by the way, how can you be so sure about that after entering the masternode private key? It's not like I'm gonna do it, I'm just asking for your answer. By the way, there should be other ways masternodes can be authenticated to vote instead of having to put any type of private key into dashcentral.org.
     
  11. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    You should definitely participate into the voting system, but avoid dashcentral. You should use the command line, or use a trusted voting tool installed in your own computer.

    Remember , you have two masternode private keys, the first that holds your money, and the second that is used for voting and authenticating you as a masternode. You can change your second key as many times as you want, whenever you suspect it has been compromised. But this does not mean that it is safe to give it wherever, for reasons already explained.
     
    #11 demo, Apr 8, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
  12. Technologov

    Technologov Member

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    Because big investors, like Roger Ver, have no time for Dash. His main occupation is Bitcoin, Dash is a side project for him.
    And so it will be, when pension funds will start buying Dash. Eventually.
     
  13. camosoul

    camosoul Grizzled Member

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    Most are held by a few small number of people. They vote only enough to make sure they get their way. You'll never see them exposing the whole mass unless they are really desperate to stop someone they hate or can't control. It's all in the ledger, all you have to do is look...
     
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  14. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    It's not the most secure thing in the world -- I mean, I wouldn't trust a web form with the keys to a collateral address, even if it is supposed to be encrypted. With the voting keys though, the worst that can happen if your key is leaked is that someone could vote on your behalf. Up to this point there is no evidence that this is occurring or has occurred, and the operator of dashcentral would lose all reputation if it ever were to occur, so I don't see this as a huge risk. If you wanted to, you could monitor this to make sure that your nodes are still voting the way you want them to. If you ever see a problem, you can just change your voting key on your node (which is a trivial procedure). So, yes there are some things to consider if you are thinking about using dashcentral to vote, or just voting from the command line. It's entirely up to you :)
     
  15. moocowmoo

    moocowmoo Bovine Bit-flipper
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    The key used for voting is a delegated ephemeral authorization to ping and vote. It can't do anything else.
    If compromised, you just generate a new one, restart the masternode, and recast any votes as needed.
    The coupling of the delegation and the network announcement means that you'd have to reset your place in line but, that's a security feature, not a bug.

    @UdjinM6 put together the client-side javascript that encrypts/decrypts and uses the voting keys.
    It's well-written and easy to follow, so there's no room for sneaky bits.
    When voting, the keys are decrypted, used for signing, then immediately discarded.

    It could use some PBKDF2 key stretching to minimize the impact of low-entropy user-passwords and to make brute-force scans impractical if the database were ever to be compromised, but it's good enough security for what it's protecting.

    If I still haven't convinced you, you can always try dashvote. :)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/co...p_voting_for_masternode_with_dashman/dffed48/
     
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  16. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Of course there is plenty of room for sneaky bits. @UdjinM6 code may be correct, but this may not be the case for the code you send from your server. As long as your server sends the client-side javascript to the clients in the runtime, you hold the power to send different versions of this code, to different IPs. In the rare case when someone discovers that and he complains that he received a compromised code chunk, he cannot prove it! All the others receive the non compromised, so they dont believe him.

    This is exactly what the agents are doing, in order to compromise the computers of the criminals. They send compromised code specifically to them, by targeting their IP. But in our case we are not talking about criminals, we are talking about voters! So using agent techniques, and holding this immense power for yourself to control all masternodes if this is needed, this seems very suspected to me.

    Caesar's wife must be above suspicion...
     
    #16 demo, Apr 9, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  17. Fount4inhead

    Fount4inhead Member

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    Truth is they probably just investors that only want the return. Another reason is when people see votes are generally going in their direction anyway they feel no need to vote. And lastly many haven't got round to the process on what they need to do to vote.