Welcome to the Dash Forum!

Please sign up to discuss the most innovative cryptocurrency!

Pre-Proposal: If there is no lamassu deliverable , should the masternodes who voted for it pay?

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by demo, Dec 17, 2016.

?

if there is no delivarable from lamassu, should the Masternodes who voted for it to pay the loss?

  1. yes

    27.3%
  2. no

    54.5%
  3. other

    18.2%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    This is a pre-proposal, that may be added into the budget system if there is a lot of participation.

    To be informed about what happened to the lamassu project, just read here.

    If lamassu money is lost, should the masternodes who voted for it pay the loss?
     
    #1 demo, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
  2. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Lets do the calculations...

    ........

    The cost of the project was approximately 7000 dash, and 1459 masternodes voted yes so each one of them must give approximately 5 dash , to cover the loss.

    And to make it more interesting maybe the 1459 who voted yes should give the money to the 486 who voted no. :p
     
    #2 demo, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
    • Trolling Trolling x 2
  3. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    #3 demo, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
    • Trolling Trolling x 2
  4. Stealth923

    Stealth923 Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    370
    Trophy Points:
    233
    I have been around long enough to know that many projects fail in business they are not all successful. Learn from your mistakes and carry on....Masternodes should not have to pay this back. I would expect that Ira Miller pay back the funds if there has not been any work delivered to a high standard.

    What I do NOT like however is the silence:
    1) Core team letting this drag on without taking responsibility to find out whats going on and inform the community. Many of them have direct contact to Ira Miller and Daniel. All it takes is a phone call to demand whats going on! It ISNT THAT HARD.
    2) Making excuses like we should have some info soon and never delivering upon those expectations.
    3) Possibly hoping that by staying quiet this will somehow be forgotten.

    @kot @babygiraffe - If I were you, I would set aside some time in your busy schedules to get to the bottom of this or risk damaging your work even further.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    This is your argument.
    My argument is:
    In case the money is lost, then make the masternodes pay for the fiasco, so that way the next time they will think to vote for bullshits, they will be more cautious.
     
  6. Stealth923

    Stealth923 Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    370
    Trophy Points:
    233
    Good luck getting this to happen...be realistic.....I think the lesson has been learned (well hopefully) by the masternode community.
     
  7. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    If you dont pay, you dont pay attention of what they are saying to you. You dont pay me, so you dont pay attention of what I am saying. You pay amanda and the rest marketeers, so you pay attention of what they say. You pay to tell you things you like to hear, instead of paying someone to tell you things you dont like to hear. Thats why you are misled.

    You have to pay , in order to learn.
    The lesson has not been learned, if the masternodes dont pay for the loss.

    I am realistic. 4253-1459=2794 masternodes lost from this case. And 1459 (those who voted yes) may (or may not) earned some profit. So if this community is a healthy one and not a fraud, then the rational thing is the majority of the masternodes to force the minority (who are responsible for this fiasco) to pay.

    The behavior of the community on this issue will reveal to any objective external observer whether this community is a fraud or not.
     
    #7 demo, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  8. noobtrader

    noobtrader Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2015
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    103
    even if this proposal passed, i wonder how you will enfore those MN holder to pay ? most of those MN holder will just remove their MN and recreate MN using another address.
    the only logical proposal would be asking those lamassu proposal submitter for refund.
     
  9. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Recreate a new MN using the same Dash coins? Do you beleive this is safe? If you use the Dash coins belonging to a guilty MN in order to create a new MN , then you will be discovered! The Blockchain is transparent, remember?

    Futhermore , and as long as it is very hard for the guilties to hide themselves into a transparent blockchain, there is a method (which is described here) in order to enforce the guilties to pay the 5 dash coins they owe.

    This is the first logical proposal, but not the only one.
    IF the first logical proposal you just mentioned fails, then my proposal is the logical proposal that follows.

    The way the community will vote on this issue will reveal to any objective external observer whether this community is a fraud or not.
     
    #9 demo, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  10. noobtrader

    noobtrader Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2015
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    103
    i think u never heard of privatesend, meh... anyway those MN can just be sold and u got nothing.

    i think the other alternative should award those who voted no... its a matter of carrot and stick, yin and yang. those who voted "no" has shown wisdom, they should be rewarded.
     
  11. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Sell a guilty Masternode? And who is gonna buy it? And lets say there is someone who wants to buy a guilty Masternode, then our goal is accomplished! Everything is ok in case the guilty/stupid decides to sell his masternode, because in that case the stupid/guilty has no voting rights anymore, thus the community wins!

    I think you have never heard about Coinfirm and about the big data analysis... meh.... We are living in a transparent blockchain, remember? Do you bet whether or not the guilty Masternodes can hide using privatesend? Do you?

    Rewarded by who?

    I already proposed those who correctly voted "no" to be rewarded by those who incorrectly voted "yes". This is a fair reward.

    Rewarded by who? Rewarded from the budget remainings? This is unfair, as long as those who voted "no" also have equal shares into the budget , so it is unfair to make them pay from their own share. Additionaly it is also unfair to indirectly make pay those who propose new creative proposals, by diminishing the budget total some.
     
    #11 demo, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  12. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,253
    Likes Received:
    793
    Trophy Points:
    183
    This is unenforceable. Or at least, the cost of enforcing it would far exceed the wasted dash in the first place, not to mention the time it would take to develop. But I agree with @Stealth923 -- somebody needs to step up to the plate on this. I am not going to be content to just write this off and forget about it.
     
  13. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Make the masternodes pay for the fiasco, so that the next time they will think a lot before deciding to vote for bullshits, this is priceless!!!
     
  14. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,253
    Likes Received:
    793
    Trophy Points:
    183
    It isn't necessary. MNs already have a significant financial stake in the success of the network.
     
  15. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Do you honestly believe that those 1459 masternodes who voted "yes" want the success of the network? And even if they want the success of the network, do you really believe that with their stupid votes they can turn the network succesfull?

    The network's profit is to get rid of the persons operating those 1459 masternodes.
     
    #15 demo, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  16. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,253
    Likes Received:
    793
    Trophy Points:
    183
    I don't believe, I know, that people don't hold investments in things when they don't want the value of that investment to go up.

    Maybe? Fortunately for us, masternodes change hands all the time, and the distribution of Masternodes is likely to slowly change towards more people who had to put up more capital up front for them, aka people who are more likely to make good wealth management decisions.
     
  17. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    By the way, the 1459 "Yes" became now 1457 "Yes".
    At least two of them recognize, even if it is late, their fault.
     
  18. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Those 1459 may want their investment to go up, but do you honestly believe that they are also capable to make their investment to go up when they vote like that?

    And why all the rest masternode operators, the majority which voted "no" or abstained, to tolerate the stupidity of the persons operating those 1459 masternodes?

    They should not tolerate them, they should punish them, using the power of the majority.
     
  19. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,253
    Likes Received:
    793
    Trophy Points:
    183
    You can't use abstain and automatically group it with the no votes. It would also be true that "the vast majority voted yes or abstained". Abstaining means you are okay with the status quo. And if the proposal is funded, then abstaining means you don't care about defunding it
     
  20. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Abstaining also means that you are not informed, or that you are not aware of whats happening. Abstaining may also means you do not agree with the voting procedure and with the budget system as a whole. The budget system was not voted, it was imposed, remember?

    Anyway, nobody knows exactly what abstain means.

    The interest of the majority is those 1459 to be punished. Let the majority of the masternodes to decide whether they want to punish those 1459 idiots, or not. If they majority abstains, it is obvious that those 1459 will not be punished.

    And of course (the most important thing is this) the way the community will vote on this issue will reveal to any objective external observer whether this community is a fraud or not. Because if the majority decides against their interest, this means that either there is a fraud or they are stupid. And this is a very usefull information for any objective external observer (and potential investor).
     
    #20 demo, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  21. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,253
    Likes Received:
    793
    Trophy Points:
    183
    I'll look forward to your proposal!
    oh wait...
     
  22. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    I have not 5 dash. If you give me 4,8902 dash, I could pay the fee and add this proposal to the budget system.
     
  23. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,253
    Likes Received:
    793
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Sorry bro. But if your proposal idea is so popular that it could even potentially get a majority vote, then I'm sure you'll have no problem raising the funding for the proposal! :)
    (Heaven forbid you pay for it yourself)
     
  24. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

    Correct. If nobody gives 5 dash to propose such a thing , this may mean that the proposal is not popular. But also may mean that those who are affected by the lamassu problem, are not aware or informed about the issue.

    This is an internet forum, and maybe the majority of the masternodes dont even read what we are talking about. They may even dont know that the lamassu problem exists. Or maybe the community of the masternodes is a centralized fraud, so in that case there is no hope at all for my proposal to get funded and/or voted.
     
    #24 demo, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  25. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    <vote history>
    if there is no delivarable from lamassu, should the Masternodes who voted for it to pay the loss?
    *yes 1 vote(s) 20.0%
    no 2 vote(s) 40.0%
    other 2 vote(s) 40.0%
    <vote history>
     
  26. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    #26 demo, Dec 18, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  27. studioz

    studioz Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Demo i understand your concern about Dash integration on Lamassu , i'm waiting me to
    i don't think Ira wants a bad name , he's public and he's having a baby if i'm not mistaking ,

    maybe they are waiting on a special event , like TNABC , to announce it
    be patient please , you're starting to get annoying
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  28. Miner237

    Miner237 Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2014
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    224
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Everyone who is upset with this should ask Lamassu when the ETH multi coin branch will be release so Ira can focus on building from their new code base. They have been dragging on the release for the (multicoin) aka ETH branch for Lamassu client and lamassu server for about 6 months now.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  29. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    262
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    <vote history>
    if there is no delivarable from lamassu, should the Masternodes who voted for it to pay the loss?

    *yes 1 vote(s) 14.3%
    no 4 vote(s) 57.1%
    other 2 vote(s) 28.6%
    </vote history>
     
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
  30. JZA

    JZA Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    224
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dash Address:
    XmZ3aBBWJdYa6hUJkWbTvwHMwMscmHQFNH
    I bet he doesnt just not have the 5 DASH, he probably doesnt even own a máster node. In which case doesnt even affects him.

    Sent from my MotoE2 using Tapatalk
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page