We need Merchants USING Dash!

JZA

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Well the way you send instantsend, is clicking on the wallet by the emisor, but how can a checkout (reciever) make you use instantsend on an automated fashion? The receiver has no way to make you click on instantsend. Now, let say that is a metro ticket, what would the ticket checkout will get you to use instantsend on your wallet. There are some hacks to include metadata on the QR to get some type of 'InstantSend only' but I think there aren't like tools yet to build your own checkout with all those things selected.

Is sort of the same issue alternative wallets from DASH dont support DASH features like Coinomi, Jaxx, and Electrum. Because those features are non-trivial to activate them.
 

indiamikezulu

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I (think I) understand what JZA means. We undertook to trial crypto acceptance in a cafe in 2013*, which was, krypto-tekkerlogikkerly, waaaay back. The only way we could figure it out -- and it assumes those involved have the energy and commitment of early adopters -- was to have the cafe's crypto-address QR at the check-out. The crypto user theoretically used the camera function in the android wallet** to lock on to the QR, then put the $AU amount into the auto-converter of the android wallet, then hit the 'Send' button, then swung the smartphone around so that the checkout operator could see that the payment was in the pipeline.

* Here's a link. There's a description of the Denmark Crypto Town Project down the thread a ways. It's dated March, 2014; but the Project began in late 2013, and lasted six months. Ian Ridgwell and I -- overworked family-guy and half-blind pensioner guy -- are proud as peacocks to have undertaken such an insanely ambitious project, and we learned an enormous amount about grass-roots crypto adoption. There were only two other such projects in the world at that time:
https://www.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/21rwhl/australians_western_australians/
https://www.meetup.com/en-AU/Bitcoin-Perth/messages/boards/thread/44292882


**We were trialling Doge and Franko android wallets, among the first.
 
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JZA

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Yes and you can agree that for merchant that is way too empirical and it wont scale at the moment it needs to implement a cryptopayment offline. The QR solution might remain, but you might want to have the QR integrated on your Point of Sale system (POS) and have the POS tell you when the transaction was succesfully processed. But as far as DASH you might also need instantsend to be enabled to get the payment approved as well.
Technically that is not very easy to do at the moment with DASH.
 

TanteStefana

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So cool you're with us, @indiamikezulu! Yah, in truth, I'm trying to get @JZA to explain what is involved because I want him to spearhead Odoo integration, LOL, a project he was once interested in. I want to get him to talk about what is involved, why it's difficult, etc... But he is freakin hard to draw out! Also, I really want to know what is involved.

I don't like the idea of a centralized company like Blockpay acting as a middle man/insurer that payments will be made, when it's completely unnecessary in Dash! This is where Dash shines through with Instant Send, and not competing against projects like Blockpay is just a HUGE opportunity being lost.
 

indiamikezulu

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I read here every day, Tante; and I also favour a model without 'middlemen.' My guys -- all techies -- thought that some of the theory I posited in 2013 was quite nuts; but although it's taken time, those ideas are starting to make sense.

Would luuuuuurv to see some one pop in and say hello here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1579087.0

We've had an experimental exchange of one type or another open for over three years. DASH-Uno trades are available on the 'D L Ex.'

And we're bullion bugs:

just got a line on a pile of these: http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-view-details.html?adId=1131249393

We'll do P2P trades of silver bullion for DASH.

['Lonely Highway Delivery Guy' now owns five thousand bucks worth of cryptos, and I can buy fruit and eggs with DASH and other cryptos, or with 'mini bullion.']
 

indiamikezulu

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Well, well, well!! Look what turned up in my reading ten minutes after I posted above:

'Can bitcoin adoption be called a “mass adoption” without myriads of merchants accepting bitcoin directly, bypassing various centralized account holders, conversion services, and POS adapters? No. Can we exclude brick and mortars from the equation? No again. Bitcoin will be rightly called “mass adopted” when your merchant actually scans your bitcoin address QR code from your phone. Not earlier than that. That is what the whole thing was meant for.'
https://medium.com/@SwishCoin/bitcoin-business-borders-d97e1b7b2ef#.kldaaq704
 

camosoul

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Which BTC will never do because double-spend and even if not, running ledge security as TX security is still stupid.

And, even after all that, you're doing it backwards. You have to be in retail already, or nobody will see a reason to find out about it. A bunch of faux-libertarian pseudo-socialist pnzi-trading nerds preaching about it, some more, again, still, is turning people off, not getting them interested.

Do what DASH was made to do; support retailers. Then it'll be seen by everyone. They'll have a reason to care at least a little bit. Right now, you're just a bunch of morons splitting hairs and picking nits in your echo chamber.

You can whip out your ding dong in front of a girl and that'd make blowing you really easy. But, it's going to have the opposite effect that you're hoping for if you don't push her buttons first... She has to want it. Explaining how great you are isn't going to do it. As crass as you say this analogy is, it's the most perfect comparison to cryptonerds' behavior that there's ever been. FUCKIN' STUPID!
 

TanteStefana

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Hey Camo! Nice to see you. I agree, but I admit I might be blind to what those buttons are. I'm sorry if you've said before, but I've missed it. What approach... what are some of those buttons? What can we do to make it attractive to merchants. I mean, they need customers that have Dash and are willing to buy with them as well. I had / have this idea that we could try a campaign to get booth vendors (for lack of a better name) to try accepting Dash and customers to bring Dash via event organizer partnership campaigns. Maybe I'm on the wrong track?

It's easy to find these event organizers, but I need to come up with an attractive pitch to get them to partner with us...
 
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camosoul

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Trying to push the world into adopting crypto will never work.

Fortunately, bitclones have fucked up over and over again for almost a decade. Every time the Sun sets, bitclones have fucked the dog again. Its pathetic that DASH insists on following the pattern of failure.

There are tons of people who would love to use their crypto IRL.

All you have to do is be available.

Not that anyone here would listen. I'm just a troll....
 
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TanteStefana

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Trying to push the world into adopting crypto will never work.

Fortunately, bitclones have fucked up over and over again for almost a decade. Every time the Sun sets, bitclones have fucked the dog again. Its pathetic that DASH insists on following the pattern of failure.

There are tons of people who would love to use their crypto IRL.

All you have to do is be available.

Not that anyone here would listen. I'm just a troll....
Fucking Hell, Camo, you're not a troll!! You're just cryptic! I think you are saying that the tools need to be made available?? Mostly merchant tools??? I think you sort of agree with me there?? I remember you were building up an actual POS tool, with a rpi, which I think would be awesome, so that retailers wouldn't have to deal with installation and setup, etc... Obviously, retailers are NOT programmers, and actual, inexpensive tools that allow them to accept Dash would be a huge inroad.

Unfortunately, I can't build that, or anything :( I'm not a programmer. I could help build and install stuff on a system though :D So if we can ever get a project off the ground like that, I'd be able to help :D
 

AndyDark

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Trying to push the world into adopting crypto will never work.

Fortunately, bitclones have fucked up over and over again for almost a decade. Every time the Sun sets, bitclones have fucked the dog again. Its pathetic that DASH insists on following the pattern of failure.

There are tons of people who would love to use their crypto IRL.

All you have to do is be available.

Not that anyone here would listen. I'm just a troll....
"All you have to do is be available." that's pretty vague, can you be more specific? and any thoughts within the context of Evolution? which pretty sure is going to change the landscape when it comes to availability of crypto payments for every-day users.
 

halso

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"All you have to do is be available." that's pretty vague, can you be more specific? and any thoughts within the context of Evolution? which pretty sure is going to change the landscape when it comes to availability of crypto payments for every-day users.
I've been thinking about how mass payments adoption could happen. The biggest obstacle imo is currency risk. I like the plan for auto conversion into crypto. That would solve the problem for merchants.

But it doesn't solve the problem for your average consumer.

I've been thinking how a credit card company could use dash for backend settlement. They could preload a consumers account with dash (which the consumer wouldn't see). Then the credit card company could assume the currency risk on behalf of the consumer.
 

TanteStefana

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Yes, but that's still a 3rd party solution. Unlike where Bitcoin has been going, we want to make Dash an alternative currency, meaning people would hold and trade with it like they do the Euro or Dollar, etc... We want Dash to be so useful, there is no reason to move to fiat unless you have to.

How do we get there? Well, probably 3rd parties are unavoidable, but I'd like to see Dash solve problems that can be solved as much as possible. The only problem Dash will never be able to solve is Dash to Fiat conversions, though a marketplace could do that, just like you could buy socks, blankets etc... you could buy/sell fiat. But all marketplaces have their risk, and Dash hasn't got a "market place" like Open Bazaar or anything (though we could do a kick ass market place using Masternodes as it could "feel" like a centralized market place a la Ebay style with nodes running the service in a secondary dash-drive or something.)

If Dash Drive works, it'd be awesome if someone took that on as a new project even if we have to make a second drive "market drive" that mimics Dash Drive, makes sure nodes are collateralized, or something, and then those nodes could earn a % of the sales (very small) it would be a great service to offer and a great way to increase Masternode income.
 

AndyDark

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I've been thinking about how mass payments adoption could happen. The biggest obstacle imo is currency risk. I like the plan for auto conversion into crypto. That would solve the problem for merchants.

But it doesn't solve the problem for your average consumer.

I've been thinking how a credit card company could use dash for backend settlement. They could preload a consumers account with dash (which the consumer wouldn't see). Then the credit card company could assume the currency risk on behalf of the consumer.
I think reducing the need for fiat conversion is the key.
 

TanteStefana

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But the mass payments industry is always going to be FIAT based, right?
I actually think that we need to either replace or parallel fiat. Replace a lot of the day to day functions currently performed by fiat, and only enter fiat when we have to, such as when paying taxes, etc...

Or at minimum, we need to reach for being parallel to fiat, where people generally hold their Dash instead of automatically exchanging for fiat because it's useful and they don't need the fiat. That's the ultimate goal. If Dash were so useful, and it didn't have inflation up the ying yang (like fiat, which you can feel losing value every trip to the grocery store) then people would undoubtedly want to keep their funds in Dash vs fiat as the more adoption Dash has, the more each coin will be worth.

So yah, we want to get to the point where people aren't thinking in fiat but rather thinking in terms of Dash. It's always been the goal of Bitcoin, but I don't see bitcoin ever being able to function as a currency unfortunately. Maybe their convoluted lightning network will work, but it will ultimately be more expensive and so much more restrictive than Dash, it's a no brainer that it won't compete.

Fiat is debt based, so all debts will have to be paid off with fiat. You can't lend on a deflationary currency. If the world were all crypto, we would live under completely different rules. Hayek vs Keynes 'n all. Because there is so much debt in the world (pretty much all fiat is debt based, rooted in debt because 100+ years ago, everyone went full on Keynes) there may be no way to completely clear that out. It's a house of cards. But crypto could possibly help support the world if that house of cards collapses, as it's bound to. Unfortunately there will be no way to keep a lot of people from getting hurt.

I shouldn't say there will be no way to lend on crypto. Some day crypto will stop increasing in value so fast. When that happens, when the value only increases, say 2% per year, and you take a loan out to start a business, and you can increase the value of those funds 5% per year or more, certainly you would be able to take out a loan in crypto. It's just impossible with crypto increasing 300% each year or more and as adoption increases, the value will continue to go up like crazy for many years to come. So in all practical terms, you won't be able to lend in crypto because you'll never be able to buy it back.
 
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camosoul

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I can't build that, or anything
I already did... But, DASH didn't want it.

Cryptic? My gawd, it's as plain as the nose on my face... that's just how bad the echo chamber has gotten. Absolute reality detachment. Would you trust a multi-million dollar endeavor to such an environment?

If DASH could grow up and act like adults for just a few minutes, this would be a done deal.

There are defunct and failing economies all over the planet for which crypto is a better option. Instead of trying to sell it to people who don't have shoes, much less phones for the non-working mobile appp... Plug into a global economy that isn't dead and busted. Sell it to the leadership of failed nations instead. Sell it to the incoming replacement politicians. Let it be the "Look how we saved you from the previous regime!" You talk about revolution? Fucking start a real one. Governments are always unstable, bickering, petty little shits. You don't have to incite revolution. Shitty pig politicians incite it on their own all the damned time.

Pussies...

If you want to make an omelette, you gotta break some eggs.
 
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TanteStefana

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I already did... But, DASH didn't want it.

Cryptic? My gawd, it's as plain as the nose on my face... that's just how bad the echo chamber has gotten. Absolute reality detachment. Would you trust a multi-million dollar endeavor to such an environment?

If DASH could grow up and act like adults for just a few minutes, this would be a done deal.

There are defunct and failing economies all over the planet for which crypto is a better option. Instead of trying to sell it to people who don't have shoes, much less phones for the non-working mobile appp... Plug into a global economy that isn't dead and busted. Sell it to the leadership of failed nations instead. Sell it to the incoming replacement politicians. Let it be the "Look how we saved you from the previous regime!" You talk about revolution? Fucking start a real one. Governments are always unstable, bickering, petty little shits. You don't have to incite revolution. Shitty pig politicians incite it on their own all the damned time.

Pussies...

If you want to make an omelette, you gotta break some eggs.
OK, obviously a great idea. But HOW do we do that? We have at least two people from Africa on our team, actually I believe it's at least 4 now. We have many South Americans as well. They are spreading the word. But that's one meeting at a time. Better apps would help a small Congo business manage their stores, but we don't have that. I doubt most small stores, they're probably mostly farmer's markets there, even use anything but cash. So there is that hurdle.

I mean, it's easy to say lets do this or that, it's obvious that they need us, but reaching them, providing them with what they need (maybe the overwhelming population needs to be completely educated and needs to develop trust in this system) is an overwhelming task for us. Sure we tend to push here at our homes, because most of us, if not all of us, can only go so far.

There have been a few African proposals, and I believe the only one rejected was very expensive, and nobody knew the person, at least at the time (my memory... gold fish... can't remember who made the proposal...)

Anyway, please share the plan, I still don't see it, honestly. Sure, I see the need for Dash in countries with failing economies, I just don't see how to reach them. If we could figure out a plan, I KNOW everyone would get on board. And again, I'm not on these boards every day, I'm about to go work again and probably won't be back for a while (in fact I shouldn't be at this computer right now!!!) So if you made a proposal, I probably missed it. Part of getting your proposal accepted by a lot of people is advertising it, being persistent, answering questions and getting the attention of as many people as possible. And this dang forum is impossible to search to be honest!

Anyway, in case you don't come back again in time for me to say so, I hope you have an AWESOME Christmas! Lots of fun, doing whatever you enjoy with your son and / or a pretty and nice lady :D ::hugs::

You know, here we are again, chicken or egg. Thing is, a person in the Congo has to get Dash. The best way for them to do so is to request it from their customers. Lets say a group have a basket weaving company that sells to the west. This is an example of the best way to draw in Dash into such locations. They request payment in Dash. They then buy local goods with Dash and Dash enters the economy. So really, those are the people we would need to connect with. People that sell to the west, so they can import Dash to their locations. This requires educating such businesses, getting them on board. How do we, mostly westerners, get this cycle started?
 
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JZA

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But the mass payments industry is always going to be FIAT based, right?
Not really, it could be straight crypto, I rewrote an article of Bitcoin use on the Philippines, Fiat is going down

Sent from my MotoE2 using Tapatalk
 

indiamikezulu

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This thread is now on my daily-reading list. Will work to decrease my ignorance of DASH's structure and programmes.

And JZA,'s claim, 'This sucker is going down'? I agree wholeheartedly.

[And bought a chunk of DASH today!]
 
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indiamikezulu

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Was just lookin' at the Masternode-distribution chart (over on BCT). This has come to mind before: there is truly disproportionately high adoption of some cryptos in some countries. In DASH's case, Costa Rica and Lithuania.

Well, my question is . . . why?

Because if we, the merchant-adoption crew, could figure this out, we could -- [sigh] assuming the reasons are positive -- use this knowledge to our advantage.

EDIT: okay . . . here's one reason: http://www.virtualcurrencytoday.com/news/avalon-life-puts-renewed-focus-on-dash-cryptocurrency/
 
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Solarminer

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I think reducing the need for fiat conversion is the key.
Um no - the key is enabling converting to fiat really easy for merchants. Remember merchants could care less about Dash now. So give them a solution that is better than a credit card or cash. They want fiat, give them fiat with less fees. Once they get it, they will cut out the fiat conversion.

Kodaxx has the right idea. A real way to acknowledge a Dash payment without actually using a phone wallet. Then the Dash goes to the merchants wallet - the risk is away from the device taking the payment. Next, adding IX and converting to fiat automatically and the problem is solved.

(FYI, crypto debit cards are NOT merchant solutions. Not only do they take away from any advantage with Instantx, but they are the most expensive way of paying for something.)
 
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unidasher

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Try to get new launching internet services on board ?
Megaupload 2.0
Yours.org

Or any other tech innovating company . They are less scared about new technologies and the conversion to fiat for them is less of a wizardry .
 

camosoul

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I gave up on it, the Dash community wants to be nothing but another ponzi.
 

camosoul

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Was just lookin' at the Masternode-distribution chart (over on BCT). This has come to mind before: there is truly disproportionately high adoption of some cryptos in some countries. In DASH's case, Costa Rica and Lithuania.

Well, my question is . . . why?

Because if we, the merchant-adoption crew, could figure this out, we could -- [sigh] assuming the reasons are positive -- use this knowledge to our advantage.

EDIT: okay . . . here's one reason: http://www.virtualcurrencytoday.com/news/avalon-life-puts-renewed-focus-on-dash-cryptocurrency/
I don't see how masternode geolocation has anything to do with merchant usability.