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Proposal: Business Development - Major Exchange

@babygiraffe @Minotaur

I do have some concerns.

Why only the 'soft' goal? What possible challenges?

For this reason, it will support Dash trading pairs for a minimum 36 months, regardless of volumes, to allow for the market to develop.


What are the consequences should they breach this? Being a lawyer I have seen many times these sort of assurances are not kept especially when there's no 'retention' sum. If no retention sum at the very least a very clear unambiguous statement that they would do so and a fixed amount of liquidated damages should they fail to do so.
 
If I understand correctly this will offer USD/DASH pairs.
Without telling us what exchange you are referring to, will there also be support for EUR/DASH trading ?
If so will it be as easy to do EUR/DASH as USD/DASH?
 
If I understand correctly this will offer USD/DASH pairs.
Without telling us what exchange you are referring to, will there also be support for EUR/DASH trading ?
If so will it be as easy to do EUR/DASH as USD/DASH?
Thanks for asking. I am probably on ignore so my question got skipped.

Gosh I hate these guessing game proposals. Wouldn't it be nice if the proposal had some detail.

For my guess I think this will be Spectrocoin a crypto debit card(already taking Dash) that just started their bitcoin exchange a month or two ago. I bet they will add Dash to their exchange.
 
InstantSend will be enabled for both incoming and outgoing Dash deposits and withdrawals. There are no guarantees at this stage,
Instant send is quite easy to implement, I'm not developer but I did it in cryptox.pl. I think that DASH is to big to pay for listing on exchange. Paying for listing is now-days paying for pump.
 
They're paying Dash $50k to help integrate the cool stuff other coins can't offer, right? Hang on... they'll be getting the cool stuff and they'll be profiting from trade fees and they'll be profiting from running masternodes with reserves and they'll be getting $50k from the budget?? So what're we getting out of it? It could have a lot of benefits but it sounds like we're having to eat humble pie just to make InstantSend available, that at least should be a guarantee along with a stack of fiat gateway options open to negotiation. I'd insist on verifiable Dash reserves too but that ain't gonna happen, that's not the way exchanges do business :/

They could get a hell of a lot of business out of this, you can't pay for stuff in 2 second flat with any other coin and that means Dash is the only coin fit for retail, fiat is the only hard part in that process and they're in the fiat business which means if they make that part easy they could be making a cut on every retail transaction. It seems like they're being offered a chance in a million and having to be bribed to take it, every VC wants in on the crypto pie and most would think an offer like that for $50k is a gift. Supporting but I'd like to see that offer waved under a few more noses, they're in no position to drive a hard bargain.
 
Why there is no signature of info which exchange it is? If you got 50k$ you can go to few major exchanges and probably one of them will do for a lower price, or you just expect that one of them going to implement DASH anyway. Why community needs "major" exchange (except pump), if you want to buy and sell for fiat money, you can easily buy one of "less major" exchange for 50k$ and then add DASH support.
 
@babygiraffe @Minotaur

I do have some concerns.

Why only the 'soft' goal? What possible challenges?

For this reason, it will support Dash trading pairs for a minimum 36 months, regardless of volumes, to allow for the market to develop.


What are the consequences should they breach this? Being a lawyer I have seen many times these sort of assurances are not kept especially when there's no 'retention' sum. If no retention sum at the very least a very clear unambiguous statement that they would do so and a fixed amount of liquidated damages should they fail to do so.
I would say the main deterrent is this company's reputation. Should they breach the agreement, it would be public knowledge. However, if they went ahead with a delisting anyway, under that scenario we would need to consider legal options and whether that is worthwhile expense... we could pursue the initial funds rebated for example. This seems like a very low risk to me given the company has a reputation to protect and once listed, the cost to them of maintaining the listing and fulfilling their end of the agreement is quite low.
 
They're paying Dash $50k to help integrate the cool stuff other coins can't offer, right? Hang on... they'll be getting the cool stuff and they'll be profiting from trade fees and they'll be profiting from running masternodes with reserves and they'll be getting $50k from the budget?? So what're we getting out of it? It could have a lot of benefits but it sounds like we're having to eat humble pie just to make InstantSend available, that at least should be a guarantee along with a stack of fiat gateway options open to negotiation. I'd insist on verifiable Dash reserves too but that ain't gonna happen, that's not the way exchanges do business :/

They could get a hell of a lot of business out of this, you can't pay for stuff in 2 second flat with any other coin and that means Dash is the only coin fit for retail, fiat is the only hard part in that process and they're in the fiat business which means if they make that part easy they could be making a cut on every retail transaction. It seems like they're being offered a chance in a million and having to be bribed to take it, every VC wants in on the crypto pie and most would think an offer like that for $50k is a gift. Supporting but I'd like to see that offer waved under a few more noses, they're in no position to drive a hard bargain.

The answer to this question is largely going to depend on your philosophy. What is the goal of the budget system? In *my* opinion, it's to accelerate development of the software and the ecosystem. I would guess that we are AT LEAST a year ahead of where we would be already in terms of ecosystem development, and that as time goes on, this will accelerate. In short, in my opinion, the budget system exists to bootstrap Dash and get it to widespread adoption (and higher price) more quickly. Would this exchange eventually add Dash for free? Maybe, in a couple of years if our trading volumes continue to grow.

However, time is not something that we have in abundance. Make no mistake--crypto, like every other market, is going to be dominated by a few major players. That means that we are effectively competing against every other currency on the market, including Bitcoin, which exceeds our market cap by about 150x. If we ever want to have a chance to eat into some of their advantage, we can't sit back and wait to be noticed. We seize opportunities when they arise. Not only that, but if ONE of the major exchanges adds Dash, it strongly encourages the others to at least consider adding us as well. Furthermore, I think InstantSend, if/when added to the exchange, will drive enormous arbitrage volumes. The other exchanges will find it beneficial to add us as well.

Frankly, at this moment, Dash is a nobody when it comes to crypto. If your company wants to get into crypto, you either go to Bitcoin (150x larger than us) or Ethereum (7-8x larger than us). Nobody in the business world cares about the #6 or #7 (depending on the day) coin, no matter how promising its future. If you want to get people to pay attention to you at this stage, you have to find some big way to get their attention.

Last of all, Dash is in an incredibly vulnerable position right now. If one of our major exchanges, such as Poloniex, were to get hacked or go bankrupt, it would take half the Dash market with it. We need to spread our risk by being on as many exchanges as possible. It's also difficult to consider ourselves a major player if you first have to buy bitcoin before you can buy Dash. Evolution is going to be amazing and increase usability greatly, but if you have to explain to your grandma how she needs to buy bitcoin first and then convert it to Dash, you will lose her before she even gets started.

***

With respect to the value of this proposal, remember that all proposals have risks. However, one should consider that if this proposal doesn't pass and those 2k Dash simply never get created, the total number of Dash in February will be 0.0309% smaller, which will represent a 0.0309% increase in the value of your Dash. With a current exchange rate of about $15 per Dash, that means that if this proposal doesn't pass, the price of Dash should ultimately increase by $0.005, or about half a cent. If this proposal increases the price of Dash by even half a cent, it's worth it.
 
Thanks for asking. I am probably on ignore so my question got skipped.

Gosh I hate these guessing game proposals. Wouldn't it be nice if the proposal had some detail.

For my guess I think this will be Spectrocoin a crypto debit card(already taking Dash) that just started their bitcoin exchange a month or two ago. I bet they will add Dash to their exchange.
You are not on ignore. Please tag @babygiraffe in your post if you want me to reply. I have provided as much detail as I can about the exchange. I would not consider SpectroCoin a "major exchange".
 
1. Please define "major" means in the proposal. I know no name will be provided but what about trade volume in the past few months in dollar term?

2. If Bitstamp is the exchange then the answer will definitely yes. But it is Kraken, then no. Even major 3 Chinese exchange I will say no cos Chinese people already have alternative to buy DASH.

3. What about the refund policy? What happens if the exchange changes their minds and stop supporting DASH in 36 months? What if they got hacked?


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And what with second, third "major exchange", will they list DASH for free, I thing they not, they just repeat blackmail.
 
And what with second, third "major exchange", will they list DASH for free, I thing they not, they just repeat blackmail.

Once a major exchange lists DASH, other exchanges will feel pressure to do so (for free) in order to maintain competitive advantage.
 
And what with second, third "major exchange", will they list DASH for free, I thing they not, they just repeat blackmail.

Maybe but like David says, the arbitrage possibilities with InstantSend leave every other crypto dead in the water and that's not a small incentive. Pay close attention to the trading patterns and you can watch it happening, one exchange takes a big jump and... tick... tick... tick... an hour later a big flood of coins comes in to level it out again. For a while after the Chinese exchanges first opened I'd estimated roughly half the trading volume was from arbitrage, a constant back and forth as USD and CNY spreads fluctuated and boy where they making a killing. It levelled out fairly quickly as more got in on it but you've only got to glance at coinmarketcap to see there's ample opportunity to level it out more... if you're willing to take the risk of things moving while waiting for confirmations.

Once it was common to see a 10% gap between bids and asks, bots filled that gap and now it's very rarely more than the trading fee plus a fraction of a percent. Arbitrage between exchanges should be the same, no wider than the cost of moving coins from one exchange to another and bots should be filling it but they don't have the tools to do it safely, InstantSend is that tool. Maybe this will mean other exchanges come to Dash with their hand out but if it means Dash becomes the industry standard for arbitrage... Yeah, I can see potential in that.
 
If pressure was true, then exchanges would list DASH to gain advantage.

Not necessarily. There has to be a first mover.

In any event, I'm sure they eventually would list us...eventually. I'd rather pay (remember, if not paid the money is just going to disappear, and I'm not seeing any competing proposals...) and skip the 2-3 year wait before our volumes are high enough to justify listing us for "free."
 
I too would like confirmation that this exchange will offer the ability to trade DASH/EUR as well as USD. I know I don't get a vote but I would like an idea of how big this is actually going to be, because IMO, without Euro trading, a huge proportion of DASH fans and investors are going to be left out in the cold.
 
I too would like confirmation that this exchange will offer the ability to trade DASH/EUR as well as USD. I know I don't get a vote but I would like an idea of how big this is actually going to be, because IMO, without Euro trading, a huge proportion of DASH fans and investors are going to be left out in the cold.


DASH/EUR would be nice, but not sure anyone would be "left out in the cold" by it being a DASH/USD only pair. It's not like any existing EUR trading methods would go away or anything with the addition of a new exchange, even if it's US based. Having a major exchange give the nod to DASH would pave the way for other major exchanges, including ones with various other fiat on-ramps.
 
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