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Proposal: Business Development - Major Exchange

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by Ryan Taylor, Jan 26, 2017.

  1. Ryan Taylor

    Ryan Taylor Well-known Member
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member

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    This is a cross-post from www.dashcentral.org/p/bsdev-general-201702

    This proposal seeks funding to cover the costs of reviewing the software and technology for integrating Dash into a major cryptocurrency exchange with fiat funding. Over the last several weeks the Dash business development team has been working closely together with one of the leading exchanges to define terms of collaboration that ensure a path for growth for Dash liquidity and direct access to FIAT trading.

    Our new exchange partner recognizes Dash’s potential and is committed to working with us in an active relationship to facilitate access to our network and build a reliable market for Dash user services to clear transactions. They are expanding their service offerings and will include Dash for other areas of their business as we expand our relationship.

    We received a specific request from the exchange to not reveal the identity of the new exchange platform at this stage of the process as a proper launch needs to be planned and executed. While we would like to add more specifics about the additional functionality the network will obtain, that would effectively reveal the exchange partner prematurely. Upon approval of this proposal we will start working towards launch both on the technical and business side with a soft goal of launching around the end of Q1 2017.

    We believe there will be substantial benefits to funding this proposal. First, it will eliminate the need for the majority of our users to pass through Bitcoin / Dash trading pairs, and reduce the friction and overall trading and transaction fee costs involved in acquiring and selling Dash today. Making Dash easier to access in a highly liquid market should enable greater flow of capital to enter into our ecosystem. Second, adding Dash to a brand-name exchange provides an endorsement of the value our project brings to the digital currency ecosystem, and adds credibility to many of other ongoing negotiations with other service providers. Third, this relationship will enable other services dependent on major exchange fiat pairs and pricing to more easily incorporate Dash. In short, it is incredibly easy to see a path towards the network recouping the cost of this proposal many times over.

    General Terms

    1.This proposal will help cover the costs of examining the Dash software and preparing the exchange platform to offer new Dash trading pairs.

    2. Dash’s integration cost contribution is to be $50,000.00 USD payable in Dash. Dash will pay 50% of this amount upon approval of the proposal and the remaining balance (50%) prior to the official launch of the new trading pairs.

    3. This proposal also ensures that as part of the review and integration process, the exchange technical staff will evaluate Dash’s InstantSend technology and work with the Dash team to test it. Pending a successful evaluation, InstantSend will be enabled for both incoming and outgoing Dash deposits and withdrawals. There are no guarantees at this stage, but there is a firm commitment to study the solution and potentially include it after the exchange becomes more familiar, and the exchange sees real value in the InstantSend technology to both provide a better user experience and potentially drive arbitrage volumes. Barring any security risk findings, they intend to enable InstantSend functionality and work with us if any concerns arise.

    4. Additionally, as part of this proposal the exchange platform will operate a Dash margin pool to help bring more liquidity to the Dash market.

    5. The exchange partner understands that Dash is a young and upcoming cryptocurrency that may require time to develop into highly active markets. The exchange has a long-term perspective and intends to work together with Dash to build sustainable, liquid, and active order books.

    6. Finally, there will be active collaboration on the PR and business side to continue to develop the relationship and bring more liquidity to the Dash market.

    We have been working with this exchange for the past several months to arrive at terms suitable for both parties, and anticipated this expense well in advance, which has allowed us to save toward the cost. As a result, we can complete a majority of the funding with a single request, and draw-down the business development funds already set aside to cover the remaining balance. Therefore, this is a one-time request from the network.

    The implementation project with the exchange is being managed by Daniel Diaz and Ryan Taylor. If you have questions about this proposal, please tag your message with @Minotaur or @babygiraffe on the Dash Forum to ensure we see your question.

    Requested funding is as follows for the February 3rd budget cycle:
    Total: 2,183.06 Dash

    Note: Any unused funds from this business development funding will be directed toward other business development expenses. Edited to reflect final agreement terminology.

    Manually vote YES on this proposal:
    dash-cli mnbudget vote-many 1fc41901a29ea67ef70ab59c5784af387bac9a04a4c15539f76e4d7ec36af3da yes
    OR from the qt console:
    mnbudget vote-many 1fc41901a29ea67ef70ab59c5784af387bac9a04a4c15539f76e4d7ec36af3da yes

    Manually vote NO on this proposal:
    dash-cli mnbudget vote-many 1fc41901a29ea67ef70ab59c5784af387bac9a04a4c15539f76e4d7ec36af3da no
    OR from the qt console:
    mnbudget vote-many 1fc41901a29ea67ef70ab59c5784af387bac9a04a4c15539f76e4d7ec36af3da no
     
    #1 Ryan Taylor, Jan 26, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
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  2. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Moderator
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    Wow, It's hard to evaluate without knowing who the exchange is, but in situations like this, I feel we have to trust our core team's instincts and abilities. I definitely trust your opinions and abilities after these 2 - 3 years, so I will vote yes. But it better be one I can use, or you'll be hearing me cry all through next 3 quarters of 2017 and beyond until someone steps up to the plate that I can use, LOL. Seriously though, I would think that if this is a major exchange, it might help us get on other exchanges as well, so yes, do it!
     
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  3. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    So just to be clear:

    1. This proposal is for listing on a major, already existing exchange - not some obscure (central American) start-up?

    2. This first $30,000 is NOT being paid to the exchange, but rather to 'development contractors'?

    3. Can you disclose who the development contractor is? ie. Is it Ira Miller?

    @Minotaur @babygiraffe
     
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  4. mastermined

    mastermined Active Member

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    bitstamp, coinbase or kraken?
    bitstamps has usd, eur and xpr. coinbase has btc, eth and usd from what i can tell.
    could be kraken, they have lots of pairs but i'm guessing none of them paid 50k to get listed. not sure i would consider them a major usd exchange but i guess they are. i saw something not too long ago that could be a hint that it is kraken or it might not be anything and i'm just reading into it. smirk ;)
     
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  5. Narroway

    Narroway New Member

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    Exciting enticing news. HOWEVER..... It's a lot of funding to "look into" something without a firm commit to "go ahead". I'm not in favor of Daniel Diaz being involved in handling one single Dash on my behalf unless and until there is a full and complete disclosure of previous alleged fraudulent dealings by him. Ryan, If you want to pick someone else then fine you have my vote otherwise I'll wait until Daniel addresses the community.
     
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  6. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    I also fear that this proposal could end just like Daniel's Lamassu proposal...

    $50,000 gets paid to this unnamed 'developer', then Dash ends up not getting listed (because of some explanation of another), and then silence - no communication until the next funding request...
     
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  7. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    Or the Fiat Gateways project....Wait, wasn't this what was promised with the Fiat Gateways project?

    Proposal says fiat. Probably not USD. I'll take a guess on Euros, Pesos, Yuan, or Balboas.
     
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  8. JGCMiner

    JGCMiner Moderator
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    Anything can fall through... so I look at this from a risk vs reward standpoint.

    If this doesn't pass (or was never submitted) then that DASH will be burned amounting to nothing. If this is approved, then we may get on a major exchange (a huge boon) -- or it may fall though.

    Both choices may result in no benefit for DASH, but only choice has a chance for a big payoff. Seems obvious to me...

    Plus, if you are truely worried about Daniel running off with the funds (I am not) then rest assured that babyG is in control of the money -- as he is for all core projects.
     
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  9. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    Lol, I'm not worried about Daniel 'running off' with funds... where did I suggest that?
     
  10. JGCMiner

    JGCMiner Moderator
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    You didn't -- but that is the only reason I can see for not supporting this proposal considering the coins will be burned otherwise. I was guessing at your possible concern (considering you brought up the gitguild stuff were some feel DASH was "scammed") -- but I guess I misread you.
     
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  11. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    I'm not sure that 'the coins will be burned otherwise' is a good reason to vote for any proposal...
    (but that is a different issue, and has been discussed many times since the budget system began)
     
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  12. JGCMiner

    JGCMiner Moderator
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    Of course that is not the only reason to vote for the proposal, but given what is being proposed and the fact that it late enough in the cycle that not much else is going to be proposed -- one should need serious doubts about this not to support it. Again, potential reward vs risks.
     
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  13. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    Absolutely! Listing on a major exchange would be huge for Dash... more than justifying $50,000 spent.

    That said, I will still say, 'I also fear that this proposal could end just like Daniel's Lamassu proposal...'
     
  14. fible1

    fible1 Well-known Member
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    I think we should trust Ryan's judgement as he has made clear he is now handling core team funds. I agree Daniel did not handle communications or outcomes well in the past, but we should not hold this against Ryan. Given community feeling, listing Daniel on the proposal was likely better avoided, but probably a nod to the work Daniel has done to get this going. As I understand it, Ryan is now the money man, and I'm just fine with that.

    Pablo.
     
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  15. Poltergeist

    Poltergeist New Member

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    Can the original proposer please provide some solid timelines for this. without any proper time lines, there is no baseline to measure or even reasonably estimate efforts and other quanta.

    Please incorporate timmelines.

    EDIT: I understand that there is mention of Q1 2017. But with so much monies involved at least milestones should be pegged. This allows one to track it on a calendar.
    EDIT 2: There has to be a reasonable level of accountability.
    Sorry for too many edits.
     
    #15 Poltergeist, Jan 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
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  16. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    - payment and development goes to mayor exchange direct / no in between dev's involved (as far as i know)
    - mayor exchange yes - not some 'little' Sort American
    - no ira involved !
     
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  17. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    lamassu back then had its own issues and we all learned from that

    back then the payments went straight to the developer - and he did not get voted down
    water down the bridge (unfortunately)

    here it is different
    2 payments - 1 advance , 1 after delivery = more control
    +
    they are not some small time dev , they are big league guys, (company direct) so when they commit , they do commit and deliver (as their reputation - to some degree - is on the line)

    just my 2 duff's ;)
     
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  18. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    Thank you for replying @tungfa That is good news...
    So it is an existing, major exchange, and Ira is not the development contractor.

    Are you sure though that Ryan plans to pay the exchange, and not someone else - because OP says:
    '2,178.06 Dash for development subcontractors ($30,671 USD @ $14.082 per Dash'

    (it shouldn't matter if they are competent, reputable subcontractors, and Ryan is in charge of disbursements)
     
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  19. Ryan Taylor

    Ryan Taylor Well-known Member
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    1. Yes, the exchange exists and is a well-recognized exchange
    2. As the proposal states, $25,000 will be paid at the beginning (not $30,000). All payments are direct to the exchange. There are no third-party contractors.
    3. n/a

    I apologize for the confusion... I copied and pasted everything from the "Requested funding is as follows for the February 3rd budget cycle" down from there from the Evo development proposal, and I failed to update the wording on that line. I will go back to the OP and correct it.
     
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  20. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    Perfect, thank you Ryan... that allays my misgivings. :)
     
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  21. BolehVPN

    BolehVPN Active Member

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    @babygiraffe @Minotaur

    I do have some concerns.

    Why only the 'soft' goal? What possible challenges?

    For this reason, it will support Dash trading pairs for a minimum 36 months, regardless of volumes, to allow for the market to develop.


    What are the consequences should they breach this? Being a lawyer I have seen many times these sort of assurances are not kept especially when there's no 'retention' sum. If no retention sum at the very least a very clear unambiguous statement that they would do so and a fixed amount of liquidated damages should they fail to do so.
     
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  22. ichigo13

    ichigo13 Member
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    If I understand correctly this will offer USD/DASH pairs.
    Without telling us what exchange you are referring to, will there also be support for EUR/DASH trading ?
    If so will it be as easy to do EUR/DASH as USD/DASH?
     
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  23. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    Thanks for asking. I am probably on ignore so my question got skipped.

    Gosh I hate these guessing game proposals. Wouldn't it be nice if the proposal had some detail.

    For my guess I think this will be Spectrocoin a crypto debit card(already taking Dash) that just started their bitcoin exchange a month or two ago. I bet they will add Dash to their exchange.
     
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  24. grzem

    grzem Member

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    Instant send is quite easy to implement, I'm not developer but I did it in cryptox.pl. I think that DASH is to big to pay for listing on exchange. Paying for listing is now-days paying for pump.
     
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  25. stan.distortion

    stan.distortion Active Member

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    They're paying Dash $50k to help integrate the cool stuff other coins can't offer, right? Hang on... they'll be getting the cool stuff and they'll be profiting from trade fees and they'll be profiting from running masternodes with reserves and they'll be getting $50k from the budget?? So what're we getting out of it? It could have a lot of benefits but it sounds like we're having to eat humble pie just to make InstantSend available, that at least should be a guarantee along with a stack of fiat gateway options open to negotiation. I'd insist on verifiable Dash reserves too but that ain't gonna happen, that's not the way exchanges do business :/

    They could get a hell of a lot of business out of this, you can't pay for stuff in 2 second flat with any other coin and that means Dash is the only coin fit for retail, fiat is the only hard part in that process and they're in the fiat business which means if they make that part easy they could be making a cut on every retail transaction. It seems like they're being offered a chance in a million and having to be bribed to take it, every VC wants in on the crypto pie and most would think an offer like that for $50k is a gift. Supporting but I'd like to see that offer waved under a few more noses, they're in no position to drive a hard bargain.
     
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  26. grzem

    grzem Member

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    Why there is no signature of info which exchange it is? If you got 50k$ you can go to few major exchanges and probably one of them will do for a lower price, or you just expect that one of them going to implement DASH anyway. Why community needs "major" exchange (except pump), if you want to buy and sell for fiat money, you can easily buy one of "less major" exchange for 50k$ and then add DASH support.
     
  27. Ryan Taylor

    Ryan Taylor Well-known Member
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    I would say the main deterrent is this company's reputation. Should they breach the agreement, it would be public knowledge. However, if they went ahead with a delisting anyway, under that scenario we would need to consider legal options and whether that is worthwhile expense... we could pursue the initial funds rebated for example. This seems like a very low risk to me given the company has a reputation to protect and once listed, the cost to them of maintaining the listing and fulfilling their end of the agreement is quite low.
     
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  28. David

    David Well-known Member
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    The answer to this question is largely going to depend on your philosophy. What is the goal of the budget system? In *my* opinion, it's to accelerate development of the software and the ecosystem. I would guess that we are AT LEAST a year ahead of where we would be already in terms of ecosystem development, and that as time goes on, this will accelerate. In short, in my opinion, the budget system exists to bootstrap Dash and get it to widespread adoption (and higher price) more quickly. Would this exchange eventually add Dash for free? Maybe, in a couple of years if our trading volumes continue to grow.

    However, time is not something that we have in abundance. Make no mistake--crypto, like every other market, is going to be dominated by a few major players. That means that we are effectively competing against every other currency on the market, including Bitcoin, which exceeds our market cap by about 150x. If we ever want to have a chance to eat into some of their advantage, we can't sit back and wait to be noticed. We seize opportunities when they arise. Not only that, but if ONE of the major exchanges adds Dash, it strongly encourages the others to at least consider adding us as well. Furthermore, I think InstantSend, if/when added to the exchange, will drive enormous arbitrage volumes. The other exchanges will find it beneficial to add us as well.

    Frankly, at this moment, Dash is a nobody when it comes to crypto. If your company wants to get into crypto, you either go to Bitcoin (150x larger than us) or Ethereum (7-8x larger than us). Nobody in the business world cares about the #6 or #7 (depending on the day) coin, no matter how promising its future. If you want to get people to pay attention to you at this stage, you have to find some big way to get their attention.

    Last of all, Dash is in an incredibly vulnerable position right now. If one of our major exchanges, such as Poloniex, were to get hacked or go bankrupt, it would take half the Dash market with it. We need to spread our risk by being on as many exchanges as possible. It's also difficult to consider ourselves a major player if you first have to buy bitcoin before you can buy Dash. Evolution is going to be amazing and increase usability greatly, but if you have to explain to your grandma how she needs to buy bitcoin first and then convert it to Dash, you will lose her before she even gets started.

    ***

    With respect to the value of this proposal, remember that all proposals have risks. However, one should consider that if this proposal doesn't pass and those 2k Dash simply never get created, the total number of Dash in February will be 0.0309% smaller, which will represent a 0.0309% increase in the value of your Dash. With a current exchange rate of about $15 per Dash, that means that if this proposal doesn't pass, the price of Dash should ultimately increase by $0.005, or about half a cent. If this proposal increases the price of Dash by even half a cent, it's worth it.
     
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  29. Ryan Taylor

    Ryan Taylor Well-known Member
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    You are not on ignore. Please tag @babygiraffe in your post if you want me to reply. I have provided as much detail as I can about the exchange. I would not consider SpectroCoin a "major exchange".
     
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  30. Naruto

    Naruto Member

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    1. Please define "major" means in the proposal. I know no name will be provided but what about trade volume in the past few months in dollar term?

    2. If Bitstamp is the exchange then the answer will definitely yes. But it is Kraken, then no. Even major 3 Chinese exchange I will say no cos Chinese people already have alternative to buy DASH.

    3. What about the refund policy? What happens if the exchange changes their minds and stop supporting DASH in 36 months? What if they got hacked?


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