Pre-Proposal Discussion: Dash to Fiat Payment Processor

tungfa

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hey
(sorry late to the party) i understand the "anonymity" angle in this
but maybe you can pm me and I can verify who you guys are !
I would comment here again to the community with a neutral fact who you guys are (no names , you can obviously trust me , I do a lot of these kind of things)
just a thought to clear off the anonymity worries !?!
;)
 

DartPayments

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Feb 17, 2016
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hey
(sorry late to the party) i understand the "anonymity" angle in this
but maybe you can pm me and I can verify who you guys are !
I would comment here again to the community with a neutral fact who you guys are (no names , you can obviously trust me , I do a lot of these kind of things)
just a thought to clear off the anonymity worries !?!
;)
I'll send you a PM.
 
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TheDashGuy

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Question a bit off topic but wehy do we expect so much from these guys and so little from Terpin like I'm seeing over at https://dashtalk.org/threads/budget-system-v2-transform-pr.7991/page-11

Why is there sucha double standard around here in terms of what to expect from people "investing" into Dash, one second someone is a being called a troll, some a fraud, then people insinuate XX and XX but when it comes to Terpin, he's god, he can do no harm, hes worth the money!

I for one want a Fiat <-> Dash Exchange more than I want PR by a LONG shot.

I hope DartPayments can speak to this because I don't find it very fair we treat someone with sucha grand idea like a possible scammer while we are letting terpin run free and do very little. If DartPayments has to submit their own proposal to the network and have pre proposal discussion, so should michaelterpin . And everyone else for that matter. We don't want our funds mindlessly and quickly wasted do we?
 
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raganius

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TheDashGuy, please calm down.

I see you as a relevant member of the community. But your posts lately have become too agressive for me to even feel stimulated to read it through. It does not hurt to calm down, think twice before posting, and simply be polite.

I am sure It pays a lot to be respectful with your colleagues here please. If not, in the end, you will end up discredited. And no one wants this to happen.

edit: regarding ideas and proposals, some people will agree, some will disagree. But personal fights helps not.
 
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TheDashGuy

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TheDashGuy, please calm down.

I see you as a relevant member of the community. But your posts lately have become too agressive for me to even feel stimulated to read it through. It does not hurt to calm down, think twice before posting, and simply be polite.

I am sure It pays a lot to be respectful with your colleagues here please. If not, in the end, you will end up discredited. And no one wants this to happen.
Sad, because I fully read everything you post. As I assumed the rest would do for me, but thank you for pointing out people don't even read my posts before sticking to the same old arguments.

I'm half ready to leave you guys to your broken ass mentality and move onto less stressful things honestly. You guys are straight up following Bitcoin down a path to wasting a wonderful opportunity. Go ahead, hire a PR company. I could care less, i won't be eating my own words in 6 months when the money is proved to have been a total waste.

Sell out. Go for it. There's no reasoning with the real forum trolls around here. They just want flame wars and half baked companies stealing our money for little-to-no gain on our end.

Thanks Community!
 

DartPayments

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Feb 17, 2016
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CONFIRMED !
i know that guy ;)

yes, old time member, early 2014
been around forever, i definitely know him !
totally dedicated DRK/Dash man ! :D
(i have to keep it as is as i respect his request for privacy, hope everybody understands)
Thanks for verifying that.

And sorry everyone for our brief absence. Been in the mountains over the weekend away from cell reception.
 
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Dunedoo

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Sad, because I fully read everything you post. As I assumed the rest would do for me, but thank you for pointing out people don't even read my posts before sticking to the same old arguments.

I'm half ready to leave you guys to your broken ass mentality and move onto less stressful things honestly. You guys are straight up following Bitcoin down a path to wasting a wonderful opportunity. Go ahead, hire a PR company. I could care less, i won't be eating my own words in 6 months when the money is proved to have been a total waste.

Sell out. Go for it. There's no reasoning with the real forum trolls around here. They just want flame wars and half baked companies stealing our money for little-to-no gain on our end.

Thanks Community!
As if your going to leave, your addicted to Dash like everyone else here
 

Minotaur

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I think this is a good project, it is well aligned with our overall goals of facilitating access to the Dash economy and more importantly it would very quickly lead to Dart payments cold calling and selling merchants on accepting Dash. I think we should support initiatives like this that are directed at bringing new businesses into the Dash economy in a very direct way with the possibility of having short term results. This is outward facing and should result in growth, for the modest amount of 1200 DASH over 3 months, I think is something we should all support.

The way I see it, we would be hiring two highly motivated Dash sales representatives that are going to be cold calling merchants on behalf of Dash and bringing them into the Dash economy so the network should get its value from them doing this work whether Dart payments becomes successful over the long term or not. I am supporting this proposal and hope it gets approved.
 

TanteStefana

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Hate to say it, but that changes everything. I saw this posted a couple of days ago (or so) and thought it was way more than I would be willing to trust a nobody with. :)

Main question is, if this is a private enterprise, why do you need funding from Dash? I mean, it's not supposed to work as a business loaning institution. How do you see it as being in line with the proposal system (which isn't well defined, but this is definitely a hurdle you'll have to jump over) :)
 
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Minotaur

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Hate to say it, but that changes everything. I saw this posted a couple of days ago (or so) and thought it was way more than I would be willing to trust a nobody with. :)

Main question is, if this is a private enterprise, why do you need funding from Dash? I mean, it's not supposed to work as a business loaning institution. How do you see it as being in line with the proposal system (which isn't well defined, but this is definitely a hurdle you'll have to jump over) :)
I actually don't think that is the main question, but to answer your question they may need a little funding from the network because they are about to take a great risk and a big step to get out there and dedicate time and effort to bring new merchants into the Dash economy. We need people to do exactly this, hiring some Dash sales reps would be a lot more expensive than 400DASH/month for 3 months. It is no easy task and it takes a lot of commitment and passion to take action beyond posting on forums and actually cold call people to start accepting Dash, we should encourage this. Our economy is not at a point where success is a given, Dart payments would be taking risk and contributing directly to our potential success. Even if they are not successful over the long term the cold calling work they would do and the awareness they may generate would more than cover the investment amount. I don't think we should even expect to be paid back. The point is whether they are ever profitable or not, the network would get its value several times just from their efforts.

About the purpose of the budget system, I personally think the purpose of the budget system should be to help Dash bootstrap its own economy and give a push to make things happen quicker than having to passively wait and hope for growth. The main difference with this particular proposal is this is an outward facing initiative meaning its goal, by nature, is to reach outside of the existing Dash economy and help on board new businesses.


When in doubt I like to revise our published strategy, we worked hard on it and should use it as a compass to decide on direction.

This is our current Business Development strategy published on our website:

"Business Development
Dash can only deliver utility to its users if a robust ecosystem of services are available to fulfill Dash’s full potential. The Dash Project Team can foster and shape the ecosystem of services that surround Dash through a comprehensive business development strategy. Business development efforts will seek to identify potential partnerships that will deliver value to the Dash ecosystem as measured by 1) potential impact, 2) cost and effort required to support, 3) timing of potential benefit, 4) fit with strategic objectives, and 5) likelihood of success. Specific capabilities required to support a robust ecosystem for Dash users include widespread ATM adoption, integration with leading exchanges, availability of fiat exchange, price-locking services, integration with payment processors, and supported options for hardware and web wallets. Another critical aspect of business development is merchant acceptance. While other aspects of the business development effort remain the priority in the near-term, the Dash Project Team will opportunistically seek to partner with merchants that have the potential to deliver greater utility and adoption to users and are a good fit for showcasing Dash’s unique capabilities. www.dash.org/dash-strategy"

I think we should support this initiative as the amount requested is modest and it is well aligned with our current strategy.
 

GreyGhost

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I personally don't believe that something like this could be built in a open source manner. The main hurdles are actually related to regulatory and banking relationships, rather than on the technical side.
Nice. I'd like to understand what are those hurdles - as you see them -- and what you'll do about it? You plan to create:
  • Dash conversion to major fiat currencies (HOW);
  • API and integrations with popular ecommerce platforms (HOW);
  • Deposits of fiat to merchant bank accounts daily (HOW if you need to exchange DASH for fiat first)
This point:
  • Travel may be required for meetings/setting up bank account.
makes me wonder. No matter the hurdles mentioned above, you need to travel to open up a bank account?? As a business? Or you're opening a personal bank account?? I mean, if you're 15 and do not have a bank account that would be fine; I'd always like to support kid-geniuses but otherwise it's a tiny red flag, to ask us to fund the very basic first step for your business. Am I reading something wrong here?

Also, how your API would work in reality? Namely what's the process from "A" (a customer wanting to pay for "X") to "B" (a merchant selling the product or a freelancer selling her services)

I do not really see it on https://sway.com/KKY2NqflcH6GHqr7?

An investment. For every month of funding 5% of the equity will go to the Dash Foundation (or network if technically and legally possible), for a total of 15% equity over the 3 months. The Dash Foundation (or network) would receive dividends once we are profitable, and would be free to sell their stake at any time.
If you do not even have a bank account yet, for this proposal, and despite efforts invested in these one-pages websites ("Dart Payments" and Sway based) you're a startup in the seed money phase. Try getting the money from an Angel Investor or Venture Capital, for this stage, and offer 5% (or 15% and you'd be laughed off the meeting.

Also, you're building on a platform that cost a lot of time and money to develop so, with all due respect, this sounds like piggybacking a bit. Do not get me wrong, I love new initiatives and having DASH / FIAT payment conversion enabled in the process would be great, but your presentation needs some more clarifications. So if you wouldn't mind...
 
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DartPayments

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Good questions.

Nice. I'd like to understand what are those hurdles - as you see them -- and what you'll do about it? You plan to create:
  • Dash conversion to major fiat currencies (HOW);
  • API and integrations with popular ecommerce platforms (HOW);
  • Deposits of fiat to merchant bank accounts daily (HOW if you need to exchange DASH for fiat first)
When our system registers that a payment has been made we will automatically sell that amount of Dash on an exchange for BTC, and then automatically sell the BTC for fiat currency. In the future when there are better Dash o fiat exchanges we can skip the BTC step. Our demo at Dash dashstickerss.xyz sells Dash for BTC, and adding in the fiat step is pretty trivial.

We're very much following in Bitpay's lead. You can see the list of integrations they have available here. Obviously that has taken them a long time to develop and we will not have all of those available at launch.

Once we have fiat there is noting too complex about depositing to merchant bank accounts.

This point:
  • Travel may be required for meetings/setting up bank account.
makes me wonder. No matter the hurdles mentioned above, you need to travel to open up a bank account?? As a business? Or you're opening a personal bank account?? I mean, if you're 15 and do not have a bank account that would be fine; I'd always like to support kid-geniuses but otherwise it's a tiny red flag, to ask us to fund the very basic first step for your business. Am I reading something wrong here?
They would be business bank accounts. Most banks will require us to be there in person to open accounts and we may need to travel to other countries to open accounts. I don't actually expect this to use much (maybe none) of the funds received from the budget. I fully expect that some of our accounts will be closed once banks find out about the nature of the business, so this is not a trival aspect of the overall plan.

Also, how your API would work in reality? Namely what's the process from "A" (a customer wanting to pay for "X") to "B" (a merchant selling the product or a freelancer selling her services)

I do not really see it on https://sway.com/KKY2NqflcH6GHqr7?
When a customer places an order and clicks "Pay with Dash" information about the transaction is sent from the merchant to our database and a payment window/popup appears. Once we receive payment of the Dash we send confirmation back to the merchant that it has been paid.

Try out our demo at dashstickers.xyz. It's still a little rough around the edges, but does work and converts the Dash to BTC (adding conversion to fiat is trivial).


Try getting the money from an Angel Investor or Venture Capital, for this stage, and offer 5% (or 15% and you'd be laughed off the meeting.
Somebody actually posted a link to a Quora thread earlier which suggested 15% as being typical of a seed round.
 
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InTheWoods

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DartPayments

Why not issue a token and do a crowdfunding? Check your PM. You can raise more money that way and easily give investors the equivalent of having a stake. It would also allow you to easily make dividend payments.
 
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GreyGhost

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I fully expect that some of our accounts will be closed once banks find out about the nature of the business, so this is not a trival aspect of the overall plan.
Thank you DartPayments for the answers. You did not formulate your bank related answer in the most fortunate way, "the nature of the business," as a reason to close the account down. There's nothing illegal, or at least nothing has been regulated as illegal, in a work-flow that you propose. This could be a long discussion about money transmitters and what not but I think you should mull over that aspect a bit more, depending on the legislation (country) you plan to have your business / bank account open.

There are hostile, friendly and very friendly places, like Estonia, where you can do all online (check https://e-estonia.com/ where you can open an e-business in minutes and have a bank account. In fact it is easier to navigate to it via a direct link, here: https://e-estonia.com/e-residents/services-and-benefits/) I suggest you FIRST take care of your business being incorporated, your bank account established in a jurisdiction where the accounts will NOT be closed just like that and will NOT disrupt your business and than move on with your worthy proposal. (BTW, it is worthy but I still have a feeling you're a tad too early in the development phase to be really ready. I may be totally wrong and would still support your efforts but this feeling must bear mentioning...)

InTheWoods suggestion above would be a smart move. It would also serve to spread DASH awareness, don't you think Minotaur, tungfa (??) in the wider community. You can get the funds, share the profit, not tape into the Dash's funds and be independent. I would think about it. The Foundation guys I pinged above might tell you more how eager are they to accept your share or not...

This way or another, good luck,
GG


PS nothing is "typical" when seed investments are in question. I've done deals in which I had to virtually give up 90% of my profits for the product to be sold or was reluctant to give even 5% of the shares when I felt strongly about the value for money proposal. That's just my pet peeve last word freak nitpicking thingy comment :) for I am fine with your choices and the community's response to it.
 
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DartPayments

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Thank you DartPayments for the answers. You did not formulate your bank related answer in the most fortunate way, "the nature of the business," as a reason to close the account down. There's nothing illegal, or at least nothing has been regulated as illegal, in a work-flow that you propose. This could be a long discussion about money transmitters and what not but I think you should mull over that aspect a bit more, depending on the legislation (country) you plan to have your business / bank account open.

There are hostile, friendly and very friendly places, like Estonia, where you can do all online (check https://e-estonia.com/ where you can open an e-business in minutes and have a bank account. In fact it is easier to navigate to it via a direct link, here: https://e-estonia.com/e-residents/services-and-benefits/) I suggest you FIRST take care of your business being incorporated, your bank account established in a jurisdiction where the accounts will NOT be closed just like that and will NOT disrupt your business and than move on with your worthy proposal. (BTW, it is worthy but I still have a feeling you're a tad too early in the development phase to be really ready. I may be totally wrong and would still support your efforts but this feeling must bear mentioning...)
We need bank accounts in the countries we wish to operate in so that fiat payments can be made to the merchant bank accounts. Bitcoin companies have had great difficulty maintain banking relationships even though their businesses are legal (some might call it a grey area) in most jurisdictions. We have first hand experience of bank and share trading accounts being closed on 100% legal businesses (and even personal accounts used in an attempt to disguise business being closed). To start a business like this serious battles need to be fought on the ground.

There are no barriers to us registering a company.

It would be wonderful if we could do everything online without any risk or unpredictable situations. Unfortunately that is not reality (yet).
 
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DartPayments

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DartPayments

Why not issue a token and do a crowdfunding? Check your PM. You can raise more money that way and easily give investors the equivalent of having a stake. It would also allow you to easily make dividend payments.
It's an interesting idea, but we would prefer to keep it all within Dash (partly to show the power and versatility of the budget system). Perhaps something for the future.
 
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GreyGhost

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Well, this complicate things -- one might read what you wrote as a need to have 100 bank accounts should you wish to operate in 100 countries. At least you are honest about it...

Thanks.
 
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DartPayments

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Is this thing USD only, or other national currencies are planned too? Could it be made more like LocalBitcoins.com?
We aim to support all major currencies, but USD, AUD, and NZD will likely be the first 3.

LocalBitcoins.com is for trading fiat for BTC between two parties. We are building a payment processor with instant fiat conversion.
 

InTheWoods

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We aim to support all major currencies, but USD, AUD, and NZD will likely be the first 3.

LocalBitcoins.com is for trading fiat for BTC between two parties. We are building a payment processor with instant fiat conversion.
EUR is much more important than AUD or NZD, even the CNY is more important. I know you are based in Australia but that area is poorly populated.
 
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DartPayments

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EUR is much more important than AUD or NZD, even the CNY is more important. I know you are based in Australia but that area is poorly populated.
Absolutely. EUR won't be far behind.

USD is the most important for us, and AUD/NZD are the easiest for us.
 

bluebit

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We aim to support all major currencies, but USD, AUD, and NZD will likely be the first 3.

LocalBitcoins.com is for trading fiat for BTC between two parties. We are building a payment processor with instant fiat conversion.
Please support Colombian Pesos, I live in Colombia :)
 

bluebit

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Jun 4, 2015
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I think this is a good project, it is well aligned with our overall goals of facilitating access to the Dash economy and more importantly it would very quickly lead to Dart payments cold calling and selling merchants on accepting Dash. I think we should support initiatives like this that are directed at bringing new businesses into the Dash economy in a very direct way with the possibility of having short term results. This is outward facing and should result in growth, for the modest amount of 1200 DASH over 3 months, I think is something we should all support.

The way I see it, we would be hiring two highly motivated Dash sales representatives that are going to be cold calling merchants on behalf of Dash and bringing them into the Dash economy so the network should get its value from them doing this work whether Dart payments becomes successful over the long term or not. I am supporting this proposal and hope it gets approved.
I believe we need a world map showing the most populated areas of dash users, this will give us and idea where we can setup new merchants. Basic needs are food and beverages, hotels, online stores, etc. If we can get a grocery store chain to accept Dash, that would be amazing. Where do Dash users do their everyday shopping? Where do you buy food? Gasoline? Etc. What about Dash casino machines? Dash casino island

I say we send the DASH instantx soda machine to Las Vegas, and show it to the casinos the new technology!!!