(Pre-Proposal) DASHPayCard - DASH Branded Debit Card + Fiat/Dash Integration

Icebucket

Active Member
Apr 11, 2014
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I think it should be distributed to all stakeholders. Unless you think otherwise?
Im lost here.. you want the potential profit from this deal to give MNs part of the profit ? I knew that was a theoretical possibility. But you are actually going to be the first to prove that that possibility is real ? If im understanding you correctly my mind is blown !!
 

noobtrader

Active Member
Mar 27, 2015
188
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No, you should distribute all profits to yourself and buy a Lamborghini ;) Making a Dash debit card available in the US would be well worth the proposed amount imho but if there are profits to re-invest then things like sign up offers and fee reductions could be better than re-distribution amongst masternodes.
i surely wont take sign up fee reduction and tell everyone that im a MN owner by doing that.

Im lost here.. you want the potential profit from this deal to give MNs part of the profit ? I knew that was a theoretical possibility. But you are actually going to be the first to prove that that possibility is real ? If im understanding you correctly my mind is blown !!
I thought this is the original value of our funding system that one day will fund a profit generating business.
 
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CharlieShrem

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Mar 15, 2017
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Im lost here.. you want the potential profit from this deal to give MNs part of the profit ? I knew that was a theoretical possibility. But you are actually going to be the first to prove that that possibility is real ? If im understanding you correctly my mind is blown !!
Thats the idea!
 
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IronVape

Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Mar 26, 2016
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Thanks for doing a pre-proposal, and talking to the team first. Very wise. If your final proposal includes a commitment to report project status and funds usage on a regular basis. You have my votes also.

PS: Welcome to Dash Charlie, we're happy to have you contributing to our ecosystem.
 

Narroway

New Member
Jul 17, 2016
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Charlie was very professional and approached us to get advice on the process to get his first Dash project considered by the community. After spending a lot of time with him on the phone discussing it I firmly believe this is a great opportunity for Dash. Hopefully the community agrees and supports it. I advised him to start with a pre-proposal discussion so he had the chance to gather feedback ahead of making an official proposal. There are many other projects we can do in the future, this is hopefully the start of a great relationship.
Daniel, Can you provide some pricing information when the time comes? If Charlie will be asking for funding then can we assume it would be a not-for-profit endeavor by him? If it's not a non-profit then why wouldn't the profits from the business compensate him enough to not need funding from us? Will we be able to get a sense of fair value ie. not being overcharged as we are not in the business? Thanks.
 

CharlieShrem

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Mar 15, 2017
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Thanks for doing a pre-proposal, and talking to the team first. Very wise. If your final proposal includes a commitment to report project status and funds usage on a regular basis. You have my votes also.

PS: Welcome to Dash Charlie, we're happy to have you contributing to our ecosystem.
Sure. I'm happy to provide a weekly update and funds usage! Ill add it to the proposal. Thanks
 

noobtrader

Active Member
Mar 27, 2015
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Not just MN owners, any user. Proposing to make a profit for masternode owners is very welcome but using those profits to incentivise adoption would have more benefit imho.
The nature of this kind of business will incorporate as many coin as possible including our competing coin. If even our competing coin got benefit from this, why our MN which fund this business being left out ?
 
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JGCMiner

Moderator
Moderator
Jun 8, 2014
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Daniel, Can you provide some pricing information when the time comes? If Charlie will be asking for funding then can we assume it would be a not-for-profit endeavor by him? If it's not a non-profit then why wouldn't the profits from the business compensate him enough to not need funding from us? Will we be able to get a sense of fair value ie. not being overcharged as we are not in the business? Thanks.
Methods to distribute this endeavor's profits to dash holders are being discussed in this thread....

Crazy idea, but I wonder if we couldn't do something like airdrop profits to all dash wallets biased by the amount of dash held. Almost like a proof-of-stake type system. Then you could worry less about the appearance of proposers buying MN votes as profits would go to all. Just a thought...
 

kiljoy001

New Member
Sep 8, 2016
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Hey All!

After speaking to many in the DASH community and business development team, I've decided to make a pre-proposal and I'm excited to announce the creation of the DASHPayCard! In addition, I will be working to integrate DASH into Payza for a fiat to DASH gateway.
Anything that makes it easier for the common person to buy, sell and use dash is a very welcome development. My only concern is there going to be a way for users to fully control their private key account or is this more along the lines of deposit what you can afford to lose? Knowing that dash operates on a security spectrum, will this proposed service have a similar spectrum?
 

CharlieShrem

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Mar 15, 2017
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Anything that makes it easier for the common person to buy, sell and use dash is a very welcome development. My only concern is there going to be a way for users to fully control their private key account or is this more along the lines of deposit what you can afford to lose? Knowing that dash operates on a security spectrum, will this proposed service have a similar spectrum?
Good question - you would control your own DASH in your own wallet. When you are ready to add funds to the card, it gets converted to fiat.
 
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Stealth923

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Mar 9, 2014
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@CharlieShrem - you have my money and my masternodes vote - go forth and create this beast!

Just one question, will we be able to add funds to the card using InstantSend from Dash wallet? (Unless I am not understanding how this will work)

p.s for project status updates get the core team to grant you access to write posts in that part of the forum.
 

CharlieShrem

New Member
Mar 15, 2017
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@CharlieShrem - you have my money and my masternodes vote - go forth and create this beast!

Just one question, will we be able to add funds to the card using InstantSend from Dash wallet? (Unless I am not understanding how this will work)

p.s for project status updates get the core team to grant you access to write posts in that part of the forum.
Awesome! Will do!

Good question - I dont see why not. Ill have to ask them.
 

UdjinM6

Official Dash Dev
Dash Core Team
Moderator
May 20, 2014
3,639
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...
Profit Sharing

I'm not 100% sure how this will work. Basically, there is a revenue share that will accumulate from fees to use the card. After talking to the DASH biz dev team, we want to pass the profit back onto the masternodes, miners and community. Would love your feedback on how to do this!

OR

We could just use the funds from the profit share to make the fees lower. I need to ask them about this.
...
I'm not sure if any kind of give back is needed tbh but if you really want that I think there are few ways.
Passing profit directly back to masternodes and miners can be done via paying to the same payees as in every coinbase tx (besides the one in superblocks). This however will lead to creation of tx with a huge number of tiny outputs and I'm not sure if it's reasonable. This also excludes the rest of the community, in opposite case outputs would be even much more smaller. Burning some amount via OP_RETURN and reducing supply sounds like a much more simpler, compact and auditable solution. But this would have such a tiny impact that I'd say it's more of a ritual rather than actual effect. Lowering fees or, even better, initial card and/or delivery cost and thus lowering barrier for people to actually use Dash (via this card, but anyway) and thus increasing adoption (hopefully) is the best way to give back imo.

...
p.s for project status updates get the core team to grant you access to write posts in that part of the forum.
With all respect, this is a community proposal (which most of the Core Team members support I guess but this doesn't change things too much) and "Project Updates" is a subforum in "Official Development News and Information" section i.e. it is not intended to be used the way you described.
 

CharlieShrem

New Member
Mar 15, 2017
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I'm not sure if any kind of give back is needed tbh but if you really want that I think there are few ways.
Passing profit directly back to masternodes and miners can be done via paying to the same payees as in every coinbase tx (besides the one in superblocks). This however will lead to creation of tx with a huge number of tiny outputs and I'm not sure if it's reasonable. This also excludes the rest of the community, in opposite case outputs would be even much more smaller. Burning some amount via OP_RETURN and reducing supply sounds like a much more simpler, compact and auditable solution. But this would have such a tiny impact that I'd say it's more of a ritual rather than actual effect. Lowering fees or, even better, initial card and/or delivery cost and thus lowering barrier for people to actually use Dash (via this card, but anyway) and thus increasing adoption (hopefully) is the best way to give back imo.


With all respect, this is a community proposal (which most of the Core Team members support I guess but this doesn't change things too much) and "Project Updates" is a subforum in "Official Development News and Information" section i.e. it is not intended to be used the way you described.
Thanks for your support. I like the idea of foregoing the rev share to have lower fees instead.
 

tungfa

Grizzled Member
Dash Core Team
Moderator
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Apr 9, 2014
8,902
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Hey @CharlieShrem - pleasure to have u
good luck with the proposal - sounds very interesting (and finally a Dash branded Card - can not wait)
 

Ctafti

New Member
Feb 7, 2017
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@CharlieShrem
Profit sharing is a dangerous thing. I think that makes it seem as masternodes are working only to give themselves more Dash. I think that using this money to make fees lower or some type of rewards program is a much better direction.

That being said, I'm not too sure how I will vote on this proposal. What type of maintenance fees are going to be required past the initial money to get the program up and running?

Also having never had a cryptocurrency linked debit card, maybe you could enlighten me: What are the fees usually to put money on the card? For example are you selling within a dollar or so of market price or is it a more egregious fee similar to trying to buy crypto with credit cards?
 
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Miner237

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
May 28, 2014
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I think any extra funding should be used to reduce the cost to buy this card for initial account, if you lose it fine pay the $20 then but lets see if you can get this card cost down to like $5 or just pay shipping would be ideal IMHO
 

Technologov

Member
Mar 5, 2017
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How the FIAT to DASH is gonna work?

If I understand correctly, this card will be similar to ShakePay debit Visa, plus FIAT to DASH, plus Dash branding, right?
 

noobtrader

Active Member
Mar 27, 2015
188
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This is a good point though:
if the card was DASH exclusive, i would suggest point reward for card holder because its Dash exclusive. but as the proposal states "...Right now, where it says Bitcoin there will be another option for DASH...." that means BTC will be listed for free to use in USA.

EDIT : or was i in wrong impression that this card will accept multiple coin ?
 

CharlieShrem

New Member
Mar 15, 2017
30
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How the FIAT to DASH is gonna work?

If I understand correctly, this card will be similar to ShakePay debit Visa, plus FIAT to DASH, plus Dash branding, right?
@CharlieShrem
Profit sharing is a dangerous thing. I think that makes it seem as masternodes are working only to give themselves more Dash. I think that using this money to make fees lower or some type of rewards program is a much better direction.

That being said, I'm not too sure how I will vote on this proposal. What type of maintenance fees are going to be required past the initial money to get the program up and running?

Also having never had a cryptocurrency linked debit card, maybe you could enlighten me: What are the fees usually to put money on the card? For example are you selling within a dollar or so of market price or is it a more egregious fee similar to trying to buy crypto with credit cards?
Does not look like we will do profit sharing, so scratch that. As for other costs, there will not be much. Once the sale page is built, and we are shipping cards, the maintenance rate is lower.

You both asked similar questions about how it works.

You can go to Payza.com right now and open up an account. You can purchase Bitcoin and sell Bitcoin for fiat. They set their rates, which is typically 1-2% above market.

The same would go for Bitcoin. As for debit card rates for use of the card, its similar to the BitPay card. There are rarely fees to spend the card, the fee is loading DASH--> Fiat.

IMHO the real value here is now you can buy DASH with bank transfer, INTERAC, in 190 countries. It's amazing!
 
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CharlieShrem

New Member
Mar 15, 2017
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I think any extra funding should be used to reduce the cost to buy this card for initial account, if you lose it fine pay the $20 then but lets see if you can get this card cost down to like $5 or just pay shipping would be ideal IMHO
I'm going to get this card price to the lowest possible amount. I want to get the card in the hands of as many people as possible.
 

oaxaca

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Jul 8, 2014
573
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If you want to get this card in the hands of as many people as possible, use the profit stream to lower fees. It's an obvious selling point that will differentiate this from other card options the customer will see. It's so obvious, Dash already has "be your own bank" how about "be your own credit card company" as well.
 

Naruto

Member
Dec 26, 2014
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Does not look like we will do profit sharing, so scratch that. ......

The same would go for Bitcoin. As for debit card rates for use of the card, its similar to the BitPay card. There are rarely fees to spend the card, the fee is loading DASH--> Fiat.

IMHO the real value here is now you can buy DASH with bank transfer, INTERAC, in 190 countries. It's amazing!
That is great. Amazing [emoji6]



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