Pre-Proposal: Alt36 + Dash Payment Platform

c3works

Member
Jun 22, 2016
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I don’t know about you but I have been extremely impressed with these guys responsiveness and thorough answers. If my support for this proposal was 85-90% before it is now nearing 100%, but I will reserve that until deliverables are met.

Hopefully tao can do an in-depth interview with them soon where i’m sure other tough question and concerns will arise. If they continue to answer satisfactorily as they have been they will continue to have my support. How about you?
I totally accept their knowledge, business acumen, and growth potential within the industry. This proposal should almost certainly be a good situation for them (and that's good - you want a committed partner). My only concern is the quality of the deal structure and terms regarding Dash's interests (including overall funds from both sides).

An interview with ThirtySix is good, as we can learn a lot first-hand from them about their execution plan, but they certainly aren't going to point out any weaknesses in the deal from Dash's perspective so they can be tightened up, right?

@babygiraffe commented that he would discuss this with the core team for possible review or statement from Dash's side of the table. If decentralized governance is going to be effective and not get taken advantage of in large-scale deals like this, such financial vetting matters.

Subject to the interview and core team review/remarks about deal structure (remember, MNO's necessarily can't go behind any NDA curtains), however, I would support it.
 

halso

Active Member
Apr 27, 2016
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Sydney, Australia
I had an opportunity to speak with Ken from alt36 at some length at the Dash open house.

One thing that struck me was his enthusiasm for the project, confidence in his team's ability, and commitment to the Dash network.

The marijuana angle into the payments market is a beautiful Trojan horse.

I am very excited about this proposal and will be voting yes.
 

c3works

Member
Jun 22, 2016
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I had an opportunity to speak with Ken from alt36 at some length at the Dash open house.

One thing that struck me was his enthusiasm for the project, confidence in his team's ability, and commitment to the Dash network.

The marijuana angle into the payments market is a beautiful Trojan horse.

I am very excited about this proposal and will be voting yes.
I was there, myself! Wish we had overlapped.
 
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Nick

New Member
Mar 29, 2017
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In regards to this offer we should explore alternative partners for such a venture, namely Bitpay, who is already deeply entrenched in the virtual currency payment space. They already have software and integrations for bitcoin inplace, which is a core part of dash, as well as having partnerships with Microsoft and Newegg.

I'd like to hear our current PoS provider Blockpay's opinion on this matter too.
 
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jimbit

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
May 23, 2014
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I too look forward to the content of an interview with toa... will it be recorded?
 

ThirtySix

Member
Mar 6, 2017
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My biggest question is around the $20k and $107 K in Dev/Production Server, Software, and Network Costs in your contribution. I cannot wrap my head around how on earth to spend that much on server hosting alone, unless the software is most of the expense. Now days you could scale up the resources to meet demand. This 127k should be spent on other things. I have access to some multi data center cloud hardware or rack space at very very good pricing that would allow you to grow into it.
The development cost portion will be to support ongoing development and testing new additions as we grow. We intend to roll out multiple phases and will need servers to test without disrupting the production server. We will need database, API, and web servers along with a load balancer to support the development portion.

The product server cost is much larger than development due to a few aspects. The fiat processing side requires additional requirements and features in order to accept credit and debit cards which will expand the system. Due to our partnerships, we also have a very large number of expected Dash transactions and in later phases, fiat transactions. Just one of the POS systems we are partnering with in the cannabis industry did $1.5billion in sales last year with an average ticket of $100, they intend to grow to $3billion this year. This one cannabis partner would generate 30mm transactions through Product36 at their current capacity, we also need to support the traffic from other cannabis POS partners along with clients within the Fortune500. The $107,000 will help support the infrastructure, ongoing management and speed of the system, and ensure we can support the transaction volume.
 

IronVape

Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Mar 26, 2016
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How about if we do this the other way around?
Instead of us putting up half a million and hoping you keep your word, you borrow half a million on a 36 month schedule and put in a 36 month proposal for us to make the payments on the loan. As long as you are still in business and still supporting Dash as the payment rail, we'll make the payments.
 
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dashly

Member
Mar 5, 2017
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How about if we do this the other way around?
Instead of us putting up half a million and hoping you keep your word, you borrow half a million on a 36 month schedule and put in a 36 month proposal for us to make the payments on the loan. As long as you are still in business and still supporting Dash as the payment rail, we'll make the payments.
Payments will be made by the core team from escrow. They will be paid based on goals they reach so I don't think this is necessary. With any investments there are risks. You just have to look at the risk/reward and make an informed decision. This is an exciting opportunity and it will have my vote.
 

IronVape

Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Mar 26, 2016
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They will be fully paid out in 4 months. And we will have ZERO guarantee that they won't switch to Ether the next month. If you were handing over half a million, would you really say, "OK, I trust you, no need to sign anything?"
 

dashly

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Mar 5, 2017
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They will be fully paid out in 4 months. And we will have ZERO guarantee that they won't switch to Ether the next month. If you were handing over half a million, would you really say, "OK, I trust you, no need to sign anything?"
No, but that's already been discussed. They are willing to sign an agreement to use Dash exclusively for the first 24 to 36 months as part of this deal.
 
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IronVape

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Masternode Owner/Operator
Mar 26, 2016
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Yes, and I offered a way to make that agreement enforceable.
 

dashly

Member
Mar 5, 2017
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My vote would be contingent upon this being completed ^
I think most of us are in agreement with that... At least I am. We will have to make sure the Core team puts a contract in place.
Yes, and I offered a way to make that agreement enforceable.
I don't really follow your logic with a loan, and I doubt alt36 would go for something like that... unless I'm just completely mis-understanding your statement above. As far as making a contract enforceable, it's usually done with monetary penalties that are pro-rated over the course of the time the contract is in force. So for instance, with a two year contract, if they broke the contract after 1 year, they would have to pay us back 50% of those funds. In this event, I'm not certain who would hold these funds or what future use we'd use them for, but I would leave that up to the core team.

With that said, I'm not even sure if it's a smart idea to make it enforceable with penalties... probably adds a bunch of legal issues that we don't want to be involved in. We probably need to get lawyers involved to find out. It may ultimately have to be a gentlemens agreement. Whatever form it comes through, as long as the Core team is involved with vetting and a contract, it will have my full support.

@ThirtySix I think it would be wise to have a contract in place with the Core team stating that Dash will be used exclusively for this project BEFORE submitting the proposal. I think with this in place, funding is almost guaranteed.
 

nodalsoup

New Member
Apr 23, 2017
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Considering the size and scope of this proposal, would it be worthwhile for a core team member to submit a proposal to cover costs involved in having an independent contractor (preferably with a legal background) look over this deal and assess / report on their findings before the actual proposal is put up for voting?

In regards to this offer we should explore alternative partners for such a venture, namely Bitpay, who is already deeply entrenched in the virtual currency payment space. They already have software and integrations for bitcoin inplace, which is a core part of dash, as well as having partnerships with Microsoft and Newegg.

I'd like to hear our current PoS provider Blockpay's opinion on this matter too.
Considering they are a potential competitor and their opinion may be biased, I'm not sure how valuable this would be.... But I suppose they could just submit their own proposal for a similar offering
 
Apr 23, 2017
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This proposal is so huge I decided to make an account just to give my vote of confidence to it.

There have been many question's directed at alt36, but I would also like to note that this is a very probably if it it voted in the biggest project via a prosol to date, probably even one of the biggest in crypto currency.

This means that the DASH team and especially the persons in charge how will be in charge on the DASH CORE side. will have lots of responsibility on his or her shoulders. Most likely even the media will due story on this, maybe even mainstream media !

Having this said, DASH must act in the most professional way possible and handle this with great care. If not the DASH could suffer a hard blow to this reputation.
That is why I would like to know how will handle this on DASH it's side?
 

silverdash

New Member
Apr 5, 2017
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Everyone I have been in contact with is in overwhelming support. We eagerly await your formal proposal.
 
T

toknormal

Guest
Fantastic contributions to this thread. I have not felt the need to add anything.

Where did all these sensible business-heads spring from !?

#emergingOutOfTheWoodwork
 

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
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I really like the idea, I like the follow up questions and I am impressed by the responses so far. We need a lawyer who does nothing but contract work to go over the proposal to make sure both sides will benefit, and both sides will be protected by the contract. Essentially just to make sure the relationship (as spelled out by the contract) does what we think it does. So, do we have a contract lawyer on staff? Does the Core team know a contract lawyer they trust? This is complex. That's what contract lawyers are for, to make sure a complex relationship works out.
 
Apr 22, 2017
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[QUOTE="solarguy, post: 123892, member: 11356" We need a lawyer who does nothing but contract work to go over the proposal to make sure both sides will benefit, and both sides will be protected by the contract. Essentially just to make sure the relationship (as spelled out by the contract) does what we think it does. So, do we have a contract lawyer on staff? Does the Core team know a contract lawyer they trust? This is complex. That's what contract lawyers are for, to make sure a complex relationship works out.[/QUOTE]

I agree, we need a lawyer.
 

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
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[QUOTE="solarguy, post: 123892, member: 11356" We need a lawyer who does nothing but contract work to go over the proposal to make sure both sides will benefit, and both sides will be protected by the contract. Essentially just to make sure the relationship (as spelled out by the contract) does what we think it does. So, do we have a contract lawyer on staff? Does the Core team know a contract lawyer they trust? This is complex. That's what contract lawyers are for, to make sure a complex relationship works out.
I agree, we need a lawyer.[/QUOTE]


And not just at the end, like it was tacked on, but to participate in the conversation and design of the relationship. Oh yeah, and a CPA, but I suspect somebody on core has those skills. But if not, a CPA gives a useful and independent view of how the contract works, and protects both parties.
 
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Tallyho

Member
Mar 15, 2015
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As Dash expands we're going to get more big and complex proposals like this one. Now might be the time to get a suitable lawyer on a retainer who can advise MNOs on such proposals before voting?

I don't know where the proposal submission fee goes now but this could pay (go towards?) the lawyer's fee to help us vet every big proposal.
 

mranderson010

New Member
Nov 14, 2016
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Okay I think I'm understand things a little more now. Central bank owned with credit-debt card ties; non-disclosure agreements (NDA); back room meetings/deals with Dash Core CFO (oh wait sorry CEO) and immediate support for a very complex deal that cannot be fully disclosed, but getting the full attention of the core; 25% of the total budget with "signed exclusivity contract" (what recourse exactly?); more talk of lawyers not for the high risk concern marijuana poses (even hemp per community concerns) for a centralized governance body in AZ, but to say whether proposals are worthy or not; MN's asking for blow............and the proposal is already sailed right past +10%.

How this direction seems any better than the current system is lost to me, but this is what a "decentralized" community looks like I guess. Where are all the critics who jumped on our thread when people started to see the value everyone here also sees? Mean while the HempSweet proposal last payout cycle that offered all (well except any part related to central banking) this proposal offers, but also included a decentralized exchange gateway, bragging rights for many world firsts like curing 75% of all chronic disease, open sourcing industry patent licenses, sharing all R&D data as it is created, and putting Dash into the hands of real cannabis industry people who do the hard physical/creative work of making all the products that you all hope will be paid for with Dash some day...........oh what it didn't make it. It was half the cost and so much unlimited in potential that made it too complicated.

Absolutely amazing. Strong work everyone. This is something you will be able to look back on decades from now and be really proud to say you were a part of what brought peace, love, unity and respect to the world.
 

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
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It's a strange universe sometimes. Maybe your work about 80% convinced the masternode owners, and then a similar proposal comes along, and now it's ok because it's not new and foreign any more. I sympathize and think maybe we could do both...maybe...

The Masternode community does share some similarities with a herd of cats...

Oh yeah, I'm a masternode owner, just haven't got the shiny badge thingee yet...
 
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thedesertlynx

Active Member
Sep 6, 2016
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Okay I think I'm understand things a little more now. Central bank owned with credit-debt card ties; non-disclosure agreements (NDA); back room meetings/deals with Dash Core CFO (oh wait sorry CEO) and immediate support for a very complex deal that cannot be fully disclosed, but getting the full attention of the core; 25% of the total budget with "signed exclusivity contract" (what recourse exactly?); more talk of lawyers not for the high risk concern marijuana poses (even hemp per community concerns) for a centralized governance body in AZ, but to say whether proposals are worthy or not; MN's asking for blow............and the proposal is already sailed right past +10%.

How this direction seems any better than the current system is lost to me, but this is what a "decentralized" community looks like I guess. Where are all the critics who jumped on our thread when people started to see the value everyone here also sees? Mean while the HempSweet proposal last payout cycle that offered all (well except any part related to central banking) this proposal offers, but also included a decentralized exchange gateway, bragging rights for many world firsts like curing 75% of all chronic disease, open sourcing industry patent licenses, sharing all R&D data as it is created, and putting Dash into the hands of real cannabis industry people who do the hard physical/creative work of making all the products that you all hope will be paid for with Dash some day...........oh what it didn't make it. It was half the cost and so much unlimited in potential that made it too complicated.

Absolutely amazing. Strong work everyone. This is something you will be able to look back on decades from now and be really proud to say you were a part of what brought peace, love, unity and respect to the world.
I understand frustration, but please don't let it drive you to burn bridges. I pushed hard for Wall of Coins to get into Dash, pushed hard for their first proposal, pushed hard for their second one. Both failed. I pushed hard for the third one that went through.

The masternodes fund what they are convinced will help the network. It's our job to convince them that we're the best people for the job. Anger is understandable, but never the right response. We'll get 'em next time.