October 2015 Budget Proposal

[qwizzie]

So what else is on, should I know about more dates, I am just about to book a flight!

With regards to 7th of October :

http://www.meetup.com/BitcoinWednesday/events/222357855/

This conference will feature international specialists on:

* Financial Instruments Based on the Blockchain and Distributed Autonomous Applications
* Privacy and Anonymity in Digital Currency Transactions

I think i read somewhere that both Evan and some other members of the Dev Team (Holger ?) are getting the opportunity to talk there about Dash's view on above points.
When the white papers get announced is anyone's guess, only the dev-team knows that.

 

[moli]

With regards to 7th of October :

http://www.meetup.com/BitcoinWednesday/events/222357855/

This conference will feature international specialists on:

* Financial Instruments Based on the Blockchain and Distributed Autonomous Applications
* Privacy and Anonymity in Digital Currency Transactions

I think i read somewhere that both Evan and some other members of the Dev Team (Holger ?) are getting the opportunity to talk there about Dash's view on above points.
When the white papers get announced is anyone's guess, only the dev-team knows that.

I think the testing comes first before the publishing of the white paper... Probably around the same time of the release of v.13.

 

[fible1]

Hmmm, I distinctly remember Evan saying it would be Amsterdam on Nov. 7th; looks like I was wrong .

Pablo.

 

[Sub-Ether]

Hmmm, I distinctly remember Evan saying it would be Amsterdam on Nov. 7th; looks like I was wrong .
Pablo.

Yer, I became worried Evan was flying all the way across the atlantic on the wrong month :tongue:

 

[jpr]

Evan said in one of his posts it would be Nov 7th
He also said those whitepapers will not be revealed in Amsterdam.

 

[TaoOfSatoshi]

Hmmm, I distinctly remember Evan saying it would be Amsterdam on Nov. 7th; looks like I was wrong .

Pablo.

Evan has since said that there would be simply too much new information to release all at once, a more controlled release of information would be more effective in this situation, and would keep the spotlight on us longer.

A "What's next?" type of deal.

 

[fible1]

Evan said in one of his posts it would be Nov 7th

Ahh cool, so I'm not nuts :tongue:.

 

[David]

Hmmm, I distinctly remember Evan saying it would be Amsterdam on Nov. 7th; looks like I was wrong .

Pablo.

No, you were right. But it was a typo.

 

[moli]

Evan said in one of his posts it would be Nov 7th
He also said those whitepapers will not be revealed in Amsterdam.

As a tester, i would love to tell you, "BAZINGA!" Because we testers are so used to Evan's mixups of version numbers, dates.... and i'm sure us the long timer testers knew it was another of his mixups... :tongue::tongue::tongue:

 

[bertlebbert]

Evan said in one of his posts it would be Nov 7th
He also said those whitepapers will not be revealed in Amsterdam.

Here is that post - confused me at first, but as mentioned, just a typo:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12441865#msg12441865

 

[TanteStefana]

Ok, finally got my votes in

 

[eduffield]

Btw, liquidity providers only mix once at every 15 blocks at their best settings, not sure if running them that way will affect mixing speed a lot. Thoughts?

Ok, I'm just going to pass on the Liquidity Provider idea. It was just a temporary fix anyway and I don't think it's worth the fuss. Things work the way they are currently and once we get cooking, we'll have more users anyway.

 

[pille]

"once we get cooking"

 

[patrolman]

Ok, I'm just going to pass on the Liquidity Provider idea. It was just a temporary fix anyway and I don't think it's worth the fuss. Things work the way they are currently and once we get cooking, we'll have more users anyway.

I assure you that being able to mix 100s of Dash on average every 37.5 minutes would make a huge difference to mixing times on occasions. We have heard that once we get attract more users, mixing times will be faster as more people will be mixing but is that really true for larger quantities? Or will people give up when mixing is slow, because they would rather have their Dash in a Masternode earning them revenue?

When can we can we expect to see the new system in action? I'm not impatient or demanding anything at all in that respect but I think we should try to be realistic about how long it will take from the time that you make the announcement of the new system to coding, testing, release and any potential issues there might be with the update to the new version.

In my opinion, the danger is that if cryptocurrency enthusiasts come to check out Dash and the anonymisation experience is sub-par, they will dismiss the project for a quite a long time before looking into it again, as among all the crap that's peddled out there, there are now a few serious and interesting projects popping up. Attracting users from the world outside of crypto is a much harder prospect.

 

[eduffield]

Ok, I'm just going to pass on the Liquidity Provider idea. It was just a temporary fix anyway and I don't think it's worth the fuss. Things work the way they are currently and once we get cooking, we'll have more users anyway.

Ok I changed my mind after seeing UdjinM6's brilliant solution (1 line!). I think we should do the LP program, this will be really nice

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/623

 

[MangledBlue]

does this mean we get 54 soon?

 

[TanteStefana]

I would like to remind everyone: When you publish on forums and so on information about your voting - it becomes corresponding (by timestamp) with voting registry - so you are in fact declaring to the whole world - "This particular masternode(-s) is mine!"
Not good in terms of financial and "shareholder" privacy.

LOL, oops!

 

[TaoOfSatoshi]

Will this be implemented in v0.12.0.54?

 

[TaoOfSatoshi]

LOL, oops!

Only if you vote around the same time as you post...

 

[TanteStefana]

darksendmultisession is 0.12.1.x feature, not yet available in current binaries https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/615
darksendrounds=16 works in 0.12.0.53 (either in cmd line or dash.conf)

Keeping your wallet online and mixing with 8-16 rounds should be enough in general. The thing is - "faking" too many real mixing users with liquidity providers does not help at all and can even harm by bloating blockchain because of their useless inter-mixing. The real issue here is not the lack of liquidity in general but the lack of "true" liquidity. I don't know the right way to fix this but incentivizing providers by proposals is a bad way to go imo.

Remember how we used to have "Mixing Fridays"? We could do that again?

 

[UdjinM6]

Ok I changed my mind after seeing UdjinM6's brilliant solution (1 line!). I think we should do the LP program, this will be really nice

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/623

I was really shocked when I realized it
Should be no more useless inter-mixing and LPs should provide liquidity on demand only now.
Going to say "yes" now, let's see how it will work

 

[TaoOfSatoshi]

I was really shocked when I realized it
Should be no more useless inter-mixing and LPs should provide liquidity on demand only now.
Going to say "yes" now, let's see how it will work

Nice job, well done. Still anxious to see why this is only a "temporary" solution, though! v13 should be something else...

 

[eduffield]

#liquidity-providers
mnbudget vote-many 74d557df5d62ea9e3ef1b26a2cbab3b4e71032d7f9480ea773aa9d87d1aecb5e yes

 

[camosoul]

I don't think wanting anonymisation to happen quickly means that people are stupid. Even if it did, stupid people can have big mouths, so they might well tell others of their bad experience mixing and persuade other potential Dash users not to bother.

White noise, in the form of mixing, or time itself, is always desirable when maintaining privacy or generating obfuscation of anything you desire to be private. Yes, there is a degree of stupid, or at least ignorance, in the desire to throw away any part of that.

Bottom line is, while we want this to be accessible, we have to draw the line somewhere. Stupid people always talk loud about their failure, blaming the object instead of themselves, refusing to take responsibility, refusing to pay attention, refusing to understand. Smart people learn to consider the source at a young age. Trying to please everyone, and especially, trying to please stupid people, is a huge waste of time and resources. In the end, they still blame you and call you an asshole anyway.

Look at Amazon.com reviews. There's always some retard who can't figure out the widget h bought talking crap. But he usually gets lost in the sea of positive reviews. We need to stop worrying about what the unpleasably stupid have to say. People with brains can generally tell that the words of people like that deserve no consideration anyway.

If I listened to stupid people, I'd think Bitcoin was internet devil money ponzi scheme fad, and this cult of Evan is a bunch of fools... But me, not being a dumbass, am able to identify dumbasses and ignore them. I'm surrounded by complete idiot rednecks. The posterboys of the stereotype... I don't ask them for advice on crypto, or pretty much anything. They think I'm a moron, and collectively enjoy talking to each other about what an idiot weirdo I am. Their lives are all a disaster, mine's not. Who you gonna listen to? A group of morons just because they're a group? Or the lone voice of sanity with the evidence to prove it?

Point being, regardless of how popular it is, you can't fix stupid. All resources spent doing so are wastes, and they bite the hand that feeds them anyway. All you can do is stand out and let those able, see. If there are any...

It seems to be a moot point tho... Apparently Evan is being magical again. All hail Cult of Evan.

I voted no on liquidity providers to spare us all the ad hominem BS that picking someone "trusted" is sure to generate... The concept is completely unnecessary. Spare me the drama...

If "yes" votes win, I still offer my name in the hat. Even though I'll certainly not be chosen simply because I'm not a flaming socialist, and nothing at all to do with whether or not I am trustworthy...

Udjuin's solution is simple, brilliant, and elegant. It's cleverness lies in it's contempt for cleverness. Like an AK-47. Or an M11...

 

[fible1]

Ok I changed my mind after seeing UdjinM6's brilliant solution (1 line!). I think we should do the LP program, this will be really nice

https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/623

For clarity's sake: Will you be implementing UdjinM6's solution as a temporary measure while you work on your V13 "Secret Sauce"; or will this be implemented at the protocol level, forever, and we are discarding previous statements?

Thanks,
Pablo.

 

[moli]

For clarity's sake: Will you be implementing UdjinM6's solution as a temporary measure while you work on your V13 "Secret Sauce"; or will this be implemented at the protocol level, forever, and we are discarding previous statements?

Thanks,
Pablo.

If you've followed this project, this LP program was started a year ago, and here's one of the threads to show how to set up the LP wallets:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/darksend-liquidity-provider-v0-10-16-4.2904/

So this fix is for the LP wallet and not our regular wallet, and it's supposed to be a temporary solution. I don't think it will be in v.13 if DS is going to be deprecated and let's hope we'll never have to use the LP solution again.

 

[camosoul]

DS is going to be deprecated

At the risk of sounding like a whiny, entitled, useless democrat moocher; if you're going to get rid of it, what will you replace it with?

Will MNs become vestigial in the mixing sense? Will they play any part in the replacement? Will they serve no purpose beyond IX? Will they be free to do something more like my goofy OPS idea?

 

[TaoOfSatoshi]

At the risk of sounding like a whiny, entitled, useless democrat moocher; if you're going to get rid of it, what will you replace it with?

Will MNs become vestigial in the mixing sense? Will they play any part in the replacement? Will they serve no purpose beyond IX? Will they be free to do something more like my goofy OPS idea?

There's a whitepaper coming out soon which will explain everything... Only then will the Caramilk secret be revealed!

 

[fible1]

If you've followed this project, this LP program was started a year ago, and here's one of the threads to show how to set up the LP wallets:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/darksend-liquidity-provider-v0-10-16-4.2904/

So this fix is for the LP wallet and not our regular wallet, and it's supposed to be a temporary solution. I don't think it will be in v.13 if DS is going to be deprecated and let's hope we'll never have to use the LP solution again.

I have to say I had never heard of a specific LP wallet. I'm guessing that it wasn't much advertised?

Anyhow, glad to hear Evan will still implement his new solution and that this is just a stopgap measure.

Pablo.

 

[moli]

At the risk of sounding like a whiny, entitled, useless democrat moocher; if you're going to get rid of it, what will you replace it with?

Will MNs become vestigial in the mixing sense? Will they play any part in the replacement? Will they serve no purpose beyond IX? Will they be free to do something more like my goofy OPS idea?

I was just repeating what Evan said... I'm sure MN will still be an important part or more so... And what's your "goofy OPS idea" ?
And why's everybody dying to know what's on the white paper? Christmas presents wouldn't be special if you cheat and open them before christmas