Mint-Gox

TanteStefana

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My head is spinning a bit! I'm trying to digest the last thoughts, LOL.
 

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Actually, I wouldn’t care too much about volume and how to get right now. We need to build the p2p exchange technology first. Volume will follow.

Nobody in his right mind will ever be able to trust a centralized exchange again. Thanks to Mark K., who really deserves his place in the Guinness Book of Records for being the only faggot in history to perform the stunt of goxxxing all his clients, his entire industry plus himself into his fat hiney with only his tiny little willy. Compared to that, Alex Green is a just wannabe Mark. No matter how much trust they'd ever build up, centralized exchanges intrinsically function as a bank, and that’s just what crypto tech is in the process of rendering useless. Call it what you want, but centralized exchanges are a dying species. They’re fuxxed, passé, done with, period. And nobody will feel sorry for them.

The have a grace period. But there is not much they can do to stop the development towards p2p exchanges. Somebody will build them much sooner than later. If in two year’s time Gavin sees that ATs have established themselves well enough, that they are controlled and there’s no issue about blockain bloat, he might integrate them into Bitcoin. From then onward a Buy or Sell order is just on AT transaction into the blockchain, which can be filled by anyone spotting it first. Atomic cross chain transfer between Bitcoin and any alt that implemented AT. And that’s it. Not even the need for automated brokers anymore helping bring together Alice and Bob. A blockchain explorer listing currency exchange ATs as clickable payment requests, or an exchange wallet that auto-fills the ATs matching its own ATs and the exchange happens from A to B and B to A as easily verifiable as miners mine they’re transaction’s blocks.

Until then it could be a multi-currency wallet that acts as the front door to the p2p exchange. It doesn’t really matter. What matters though and what it all comes down to is:
  • do we as the drk community want to take over existing tech reactively, falling behind innovation and die a slow death like litecoin will.
  • or do we want to shape the future and be perceived as an innovative, proactive and just plain awesome coin?
We have something that as of this moment nobody else has. It's not working as perfectly yet as we want it to, but it’s about time we start planning on how to use our masternodes.
 
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TanteStefana

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Ah, Stonehedge, now I know why I've had so much indigestion!

As he stated here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading
it can only be used with BTC derived coins/chains...

He also mentions an alternative blockchain (which I can see being hosted by MNs) to solve that problem.

Anyway, we are seriously positioned to do this and it needs to get done! LOL. I have no idea on coding it though, I have no skills in that department.

If exchanges could be used to facilitate the transactions without requiring actual possession of any coins, this could seriously be the best of both worlds. exchanges provide tools and options (shorting, etc...) analysis, and things I don't understand, LOL. Let them do that! Businesses built on top of cryptos are great! But the trust factor in all these things must be eliminated!
 

TanteStefana

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Wow, sorry for being ignorant, but it seems these exchanges are another level of scam, eh? They actually got investors to invest in them, as they build the exchange, and then run off with the money? Why does an online website exchange need 700,000 bitcoins to run? I guess they have to back up each trade or something? Anyway, Cryptsy has so many fees, how could they not make money?

Yes, a trustless exchange is needed NOW!

I'm also worried that these IPOs that have raised small fortunes, are going to die off as well, leaving more bad taste in everyone's mouths.
 
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tungfa

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Wow, sorry for being ignorant, but it seems these exchanges are another level of scam, eh? They actually got investors to invest in them, as they build the exchange, and then run off with the money? Why does an online website exchange need 700,000 bitcoins to run? I guess they have to back up each trade or something? Anyway, Cryptsy has so many fees, how could they not make money?

Yes, a trustless exchange is needed NOW!

I'm also worried that these IPOs that have raised small fortunes, are going to die off as well, leaving more bad taste in everyone's mouths.

yes they so are
we really need a decentralized DRK exchange !!
If we had a C++?GUI Developer on hand we could really look into converting our QT Wallets into something like that,
I am looking and looking but can NOT find anybody !!

Any Tips ?!
Am happy to do a fundraiser for a bounty and such !! ...>
 

pbleak

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Hey guys I just noticed that Counterparty wallets have an in-built exchange going on. Could we not try this? Take a look at their wallets to see what I mean.
 
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tungfa

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Hey guys I just noticed that Counterparty wallets have an in-built exchange going on. Could we not try this? Take a look at their wallets to see what I mean.
https://counterwallet.io
their wallet is pure online !?
"With Counterwallet, your passphrase is your wallet, and all of your addresses and keys are generated on-the-fly when you log in.
There are no wallet files to backup or keep private, and with your passphrase you can access your wallet from any trusted machine with a web browser."

would not work
but MultiWallet trades straight out of the Wallet with Exchanges
Thats more like it !

 

pbleak

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Oh sure I don't mean the exact wallet, but some variation on the idea of the integrated exchange could be cool.
 

TanteStefana

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Yeeks! what a pompous arrogant idiot , I can't believe I trusted mintgox with my darkcoin trading with someone like Ryan Kennady in charge.
I didn't hear until very recently that moohla bought mint gox (of course with investor's money)
 

tungfa

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i have to meditate over that for a while .....>
 

TanteStefana

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i have to meditate over that for a while .....>
I'm not so sure you should, it's making me feel dizzy and sick looking at it, and I made it! LOL. Damn, making schematics takes talent I never knew I lacked!

LOL, looking at it now, it might be the stupidest looking thing ever, LOL
 
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Cofresí

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Thanks so much for this nice uterus mandala that's perfect for my meditations. Will make my daily flights to the 胎蔵界 and the five wisdom kings so much easier. Just kidding. ;)

Unfortunately the devil dwells in the details... one thing which is not so clear to me in your representation is how and on what authority the exchanges initiate the transfer. It seems that exchange X needs to know about A, even though A is not its customer, in order to release B's funds via the masternodes? How would that happen exactly? Also what exchanges do you expect could be convinced to hook themselves up to such a system? How could they be convinced?

I gather that somehow the masternode network keeps control of the funds until they are released. That requires some authority logic in the masternodes to make decisions on fund releases. Don't you think it would be much easier and safer to have a pure p2p transfer from A to B and from B to A? Like with the atomic cross chain transfer mechanism that was hard to digest?

Just keep it coming. Great work!
 
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TanteStefana

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Well, I was thinking that the exchanges would only be the match makers, and the masternodes would trigger the release of funds. Trigger, not actually do the release because the funds should always be in the owner's wallet. The reason I want exchanges to handle match making, etc... is because I figure we need them for all the other things exchanges do, like that stuff I have no clue about... shorting, etc... There has to be incentives for these kinds of services. I figured they could charge separately, kind of at the same time, but directly from the client, for the exchange.

A pure p2p transfer would require people finding each other and agreeing on a price, etc... It would be slow, not very anonymous and no record could be kept on what just traded so that a price can be established. We need a real exchange, that can handle huge volumes in no time at all, but where the coins are never entrusted to anyone except the group that is actually making the exchanges. The diagram simplifies it to two individuals, but what if B only wants to exchange for 0.5 DRK? A third or forth person would have to be found to take up the slack.

So this needs to look and feel just like Cryptsy but without the risk of trusting your coins in Cryptsy's wallets.

I didn't sleep last night, so I'm pretty giddy, LOL. I don't know if anything I'm saying or trying to do makes any sense whatsoever, but I felt like trying so I did, ;):rolleyes:
 
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Cofresí

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A pure p2p transfer would require people finding each other and agreeing on a price, etc... It would be slow, not very anonymous and no record could be kept on what just traded so that a price can be established.
A p2p exchange doesn't have to be slow. You could solve discovery of A and B with a p2p network which includes each exchange wallet and where each exchange wallet knows what each other exchange wallet wants to trade by broadcasting its orders to everyone in the network. Or by using a trade blockchain mined very rapidly by each wallet.

BTC to DRK and DRK to BTC will be no more an no less anonymous as Bitcoin.

You could easily keep records of trades in a pure p2p system. Either in a trade blockchain which is mined by the exchange wallets or In a distributed db which every exchange wallet keeps built in. The limiting factor of the distributed trade db approach would be scalability of the network for many participating exchange wallets with many trades. Probably the blockchain approach is better for scalability of the p2p exchange.

The way you use this trade blockchain/db for statistics and graphs in the gui of the exchange wallet is left to the developer of such a p2p system.
 
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TanteStefana

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Sounds good, make it so, lol

At this point, I'm so out of my league, all I can do is cheer.

Darkcoin Darkcoin, what do we want?
Decentralized exchanges for you to flaunt!
With Masternodes handling all of the work,
other coins with jealousy will go berserk!

OMG, I can't even make it as a cheerleader! ROFLMAO

(this is why I should never show my face in public, LOL)
 

TanteStefana

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Coins101 just made a great post on BTC today as well, Quote:

Devs:

If you build multi-sig into DRK, especially on mobile, then there is an argument against reduced regulation as regulation is mainly about consumer protection from things like exchanges and other financial intermediaries losing your money while they are in custody of it.

If you maintain a hold over it through multi-sig, you remove a major need for regulations.

Then its just about FinCEN stuff - reporting of financial crimes.
 

Cofresí

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OMG, I can't even make it as a cheerleader! ROFLMAO
Oh, shut up. You're the one and only drk-cheerleader and you know it.

And isn't coins101 an inspiration? Multi-sig indeed + p2p. What's there to regulate anymore? The system regulates itself. I think I know now how to do it. Simpler than described before. Time to stop talking and deliver. Guess this will take a while 'cause I'm old and lazy.
 
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