How to onboard 300,000 new users in one geographic location

Arthyron

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May 29, 2017
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They literally can't pass the money out that fast. And 2 million would put a big dent in the treasury, possibly bumping other worthy projects.

I see no disadvantage to doing it over 3 treasury cycles.
...and if we get down to it and it turns out to be a big mess (i.e. the government comes in and shuts them down or whatever), this would also allow us to preserve those funds for other concurrent efforts.
 
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toknormal

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Ok. 3 budget cycles sounds reasonable and would also allow the business plan to play out according to schedule since only $700k is needed to get through the first 3 months. (In fact he'd have the entire project budget by then and still only be a third of the way through the timetable if I interpret it correctly).

I'd actually do this another way. I'm not sure that sitting people in front of videos and expecting them to absorb highly technical procedures is very efficient. If you're only going to airdrop to a tiny part of the population why not target that part that's going to most effectively push it forward.

It might be better to:

• pre-populate thousands of wallets
• let people do the "training", whatever form it takes
• give them temporary access to a pre-populated wallet and send themselves the funds

That way you get people who you know can actually use the facility. Asking them to do a "quiz" is not very effective IMO. You need to check they can actually use the stuff before they leave the building and that's a labour intensive process.
 
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Unstoppable

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I haven't gone through and added it up, but it would not surprise me if this proposal is asking more than all other previous and current Venezuela proposals added together. Does anyone have that handy?

Trying to stuff a very large amount of money in one place in a short period of time, by hand, to desperate economic refugees in the literal act of fleeing their country, in a border town whose infrastructure is likely stressed beyond capacity, seems like a disaster in the making. I still will vote no, and patiently allow the Dash Venezuela Alliance to work their magic.

This project screams of impatience and of throwing money at the problem. Not a recipe for success.
 

George Donnelly

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I haven't gone through and added it up, but it would not surprise me if this proposal is asking more than all other previous and current Venezuela proposals added together. Does anyone have that handy?

Trying to stuff a very large amount of money in one place in a short period of time, by hand, to desperate economic refugees in the literal act of fleeing their country, in a border town whose infrastructure is likely stressed beyond capacity, seems like a disaster in the making. I still will vote no, and patiently allow the Dash Venezuela Alliance to work their magic.

This project screams of impatience and of throwing money at the problem. Not a recipe for success.
I'm very optimistic on David's idea. I love it, but I also see this side which is why it is important to start small. One of the first thoughts I had was that refugees/migrants are far from an ideal population for Dash.

That said, money is trust. And helping people in desperate straits builds trust. So this has a significant potential upside for Dash, as long as all the merchant groundwork is well done.
 
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Ftoole

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What about dash direct. It is a project in Africa that gives a universal basic income from donations. May want to see how they run it.
 
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DavidHay

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...and if we get down to it and it turns out to be a big mess (i.e. the government comes in and shuts them down or whatever), this would also allow us to preserve those funds for other concurrent efforts.
If we are forced to shut down any money not distributed will be given back to Dash. I can agree to this.
 

DavidHay

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Ok. 3 budget cycles sounds reasonable and would also allow the business plan to play out according to schedule since only $700k is needed to get through the first 3 months. (In fact he'd have the entire project budget by then and still only be a third of the way through the timetable if I interpret it correctly).

I'd actually do this another way. I'm not sure that sitting people in front of videos and expecting them to absorb highly technical procedures is very efficient. If you're only going to airdrop to a tiny part of the population why not target that part that's going to most effectively push it forward.

It might be better to:

• pre-populate thousands of wallets
• let people do the "training", whatever form it takes
• give them temporary access to a pre-populated wallet and send themselves the funds

That way you get people who you know can actually use the facility. Asking them to do a "quiz" is not very effective IMO. You need to check they can actually use the stuff before they leave the building and that's a labour intensive process.
Yes, I am very flexible when it comes to the best approach on education. We are all trying to achieve the same the same goal. We can bring in experts and see what they think. I'm happy to film and produce video's and use the content already available. if someone leaves the classroom and has solid understanding of what Dash is and how to use it we've done our job correctly. If they don't we need to find the issue and fix it.
 

solarguy

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It is not so straightforward to "give the money back". We don't even know who the Masternodes are. We can't "give the money back" to the blockchain where it originates. I suppose you could give it to Dash Core Devs, but they have their own proposals and should never lack for resources.

I would propose that in the event the money cannot be used for it's original intent, it be split among the other Venezuelan projects as a "plan B".
 
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Unstoppable

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Hey @DavidHay

I really believe both San Cristóbal or Cucuta are equally dangerous.

I have been thinking in another alternative...

What about going to Medellin or/and Bogotá and working closely with the venezuelans inmigrants associations in those cities.

I would incline first for Medellín, for 2 reasons:
1) There is already an interesting presence of the DASH Community there, with @ec1warc1 @sambarbosa Mireya @George Donnelly
2) There is an interesting technological movement in that city.

What does the community think?
This is worth repeating. The Venezuelans in Medellin are stable. For this much money, Medellin could be transformed into the first Dash Colombia city, and create a major remittance source from Colombia to Venezuela, pumping more crypto into Venezuela.

Get 2000 merchants in Medellin to use dash, give the residents free dash, and watch it go into the economies of both Colombia, and be used to support Venezuela. This would be money well spent.

If you are a bit more flexible on your location, @DavidHay, I'll get on board. Your passion and energy shine brightly, but let's be flexible on where to direct it.

Maybe by the time this gets organized, getfreedash will have reached 1 million in Venezuela, and be open to moving it to Colombia. This could be a massive offensive. I'm ready to see a Dash Colombia Alliance.
 

DavidHay

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This is worth repeating. The Venezuelans in Medellin are stable. For this much money, Medellin could be transformed into the first Dash Colombia city, and create a major remittance source from Colombia to Venezuela, pumping more crypto into Venezuela.

Get 2000 merchants in Medellin to use dash, give the residents free dash, and watch it go into the economies of both Colombia, and be used to support Venezuela. This would be money well spent.

If you are a bit more flexible on your location, @DavidHay, I'll get on board. Your passion and energy shine brightly, but let's be flexible on where to direct it.

Maybe by the time this gets organized, getfreedash will have reached 1 million in Venezuela, and be open to moving it to Colombia. This could be a massive offensive. I'm ready to see a Dash Colombia Alliance.

I'll be in Medellin on Saturday/Sunday and am visiting local charities to get a better understanding of the situation. I'll be in Bogota on Wednesday. I'm happy to look at these options.
 
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DavidHay

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It is not so straightforward to "give the money back". We don't even know who the Masternodes are. We can't "give the money back" to the blockchain where it originates. I suppose you could give it to Dash Core Devs, but they have their own proposals and should never lack for resources.

I would propose that in the event the money cannot be used for it's original intent, it be split among the other Venezuelan projects as a "plan B".
Yes, I'm open to any solution. If for some reason we are unable to operate from a legal standpoint I have not use for the funds.
 

George Donnelly

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DashColombia.org
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XkTfpGLd4hGEHggKWwaWDGqUmoWB5Nguw2
This is worth repeating. The Venezuelans in Medellin are stable. For this much money, Medellin could be transformed into the first Dash Colombia city, and create a major remittance source from Colombia to Venezuela, pumping more crypto into Venezuela.

Get 2000 merchants in Medellin to use dash, give the residents free dash, and watch it go into the economies of both Colombia, and be used to support Venezuela. This would be money well spent.
This is the topic of this thread: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/una-ciudad-cripto-en-latinoamérica-con-dash.30002/

I'm speaking with Eugenia of Dash Caracas, Edward of Dash.red and a couple other Dash folks in the area. The idea is to learn from Eugenia, Edward and the others, build on Edward's excellent work so far and take it up a notch or two, see how things go and then look at what the right steps are for here.
 

demo

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Had a great dinner with @George in Medellin. Here is a summary from my trip to Cucuta.
Your video is freezing. A fair share to start.
DavidHay said:
I just want to explain how people get robbed in venezuela and how they dont really get a fair share to start.
Could you please explain how they will get a fair share to start by using cryptocurrencies? Most of the known cryptocurrencies are time and space dependent and they are coined for the benefit of a greedy generation (and the benefit of friends, relatives and heirs of this generation). For example bitcoin is for the benefit of the greedy generation of 2009, DASH is for the benefit of the greedy generation of 2014 e.t.c. Whatever young person obeys, believes and works for whatever old greedy generation, should be considered as an ultimate stupid.

There is only one crypto I know that is time and space independent, and allows the future generations to have a fair share to start.

P.S.
Just for your info, your sponsor Digibuy is affiliated with digibayanihan, which is sponsored by google, which censors cryptocurrencies. Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.
 
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Arthyron

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@DavidHay -- Thanks for doing that and posting a video account of your trip. Now that you have a first-hand experience of the logistics and we have better insights about what is going on there, I'm more willing to support you. Going forward, did you learn anything from your trip that has had a significant impact or spurred any changes in your business plan on a broad strokes basis? Do you think the original $2 Dash equivalent would still be ideal, or does the slightly higher wage of Venezuelan refugees in Colombia make you think a higher price per person for fewer participants would be a better option?
 
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From what I am understanding it about getting an actual working (crypto) currency in the hands of these people.
It sounds very much like creating/setting up a Monetary system in a micro.
In order for that to work the currency needs to be able to flow as if it where a circle similar to: circle of life, blood in living body, oil an a machine). For that to happen all it needs to be able to flow without being blocked, being bleed out.

Question
1) Are any Monetary experts involved or are going to be involved in the process ?
2) Are all aspects, that could form bottle-necks or could cause an outflow clearly identified and how are they dealt with ?
For example:
How are merchants benefiting from accepting Dash, if there is not, they will simply demand, their preferred choose in currency, which would mean that
it obvious the easiest and clearest route taking will be to cash out to USD if possible or the local currency
2.1) What incentives do merchants get to setup the dash payment option to clients
3) Any and all tourism is an absolute must, had should be educated and it if they have an online presence Dash payment options must be integrated. (maybe ALT36 could help with this)
 
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What up David Hay ?

I just viewed yet another video of you active in Venezuela, promoting other crypto's because they funded you to do these projects.

I don't want to be that guy, but your now promoting multiple different currency's just because they gave you a couple 1000's to invest into your projects. Sure I get it, but if your planning to on-board 300.000 people you better make sure you do it for only one crypto-currency, otherwise things are just going to be to complicated, you can't expect these people and especially these merchants to start accepting a multiple crypto's all at once. At any rate you could have probably gotten these funds from Dash if you really wanted to do these projects, and if you are expecting Dash to hand you over 2million USD for your project. In fact if you did a couple of smaller projects your changes increase in getting this project funded.

I hope you also understand they your getting these types of funding to create goodwill, but you need be realist as well, which currency has the most change to succeed, and would promoting multiple ones be a good thing ?
Just to be clear if your planning to promote all sorts of different crypto's a currency, and not the coin that is going to invest heavily into your project, you should expect it not to be funded. MNO are tired of voting in free lunches for other coins. (look at festy, if you don't believe me)

Non the less, this still one of my favorite all time projects in Dash. I hope to hear an update from you soon.

*If anybody can directly contact David Hay, please do it's been to long since we heard from him
 
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DavidHay

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You must be kidding me, there are so many problems with what you say I don't know where to start.

As of right now Dash hasn't given me anything, nor has anyone from the Dash community offered to donate anything without me promising something in return. In fact some of the master node operators have reached out to me directly to say they do not support this project.

It's hard to not be insulted when you say "Free lunch" let me make this very clear. I moved to Colombia using my own money, I've paid for the biometric system with my own money and I've also hired my first time employee in Cucuta with my own money. I have no intention of taking a salary at any point so maybe I'm missing where the free lunch comes in.

Last week I spoke at the Dash meetup in Medellin and I have plans to do interviews with some of the members from Dash Caracas. Over the past three months I've been adding Dash to my portfolio and I made this video which promoted the benefits of Dash heavily and already received 34,000 views.


Now if you want to be critical of Digibyte because some of their core team is heavily involved in charity work I don't know what to say. The core team members were very clear when they donated the money that there was no strings attached and I was free to use it to continue the development of this project. I used that money to buy laptops and connect internet into the schools, so yes the guys at Digibyte are awesome.

Let's not forget that Dash's budget shrunk significantly during the bear market and many people inside of Dash told me while the market was down they doubt they could afford to do this and back the other major projects.

I'm really disappointed by this attitude and I hope it's not one shared by the bulk of the Dash community.

Again I want to stress this one more time. Dash is not giving me any money, I will not make any money off this project. The money will be held in escrow and be release as we hit milestones which involve distributing crypto to 300,000 new users in one geographic area.
 
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DavidHay

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While we continue to develop our business plan and co-ordinate logistics donating laptops to schools is an excellent side project that will build and incredible amount of good will and positive PR.

If the Dash community would donate $1950 that's enough to sponsor a class room of 30 children, donate $32,500 and we can donate 500 tablets or enough to cover an entire school.

Like I explained in my video Crypto in neither legal or illegal in Colombia it exists in a grey area. By creating easy to achieve short term goals we are raising awareness, proving we work efficiently on the ground and building a base of teachers and students that the rest of the world is currently turning a blind eye to.

When it comes time to do our major roll out we will need to choose the best crypto willing to fund the idea. Dash has some obvious major advantages but if the people here don't believe in the project it would be reckless of me to put all my eggs in one basket.
 
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George Donnelly

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David was at our Dash Medellín meetup last Thu Apr 26 here in Medellín, Colombia and gave a talk on the evolution of this project. He is clearly working very hard to learn Spanish and gave his 25-minute talk in a Spanish that I, for one, mostly understood. I have video of it but it's still uploading.

At the moment, David has said he is focused on getting cheap computers into people's hands as a way of building both human and technical infrastructure for the eventual airdrop.

On the one hand, David has demonstrated his commitment to his idea in many ways now. Kudos to him for that. I can see the passion in his face.

On the other hand, the project to my eyes is 95% charity and 5% cryptocurrency marketing. In fact, a recent video of his shows some new student desks being delivered that were apparently funded by DigiByte but had David Hay stickers put on them rather than DGB stickers, which I found confusing and bizarre.

I had dinner with David maybe 6 weeks ago here in Medellín, and, at that time, he had no plan for how to incentivize the recipients of the airdrop to not immediately cash it in for fiat. Well, it's worse than that: he saw no need for such a plan. I hope he has changed his mind on that.

I have not been following the project since then because I made at least 3 attempts to join the project team and was rebuffed each time. (I'm focusing on Dash Medellín for the foreseeable future.)

I have a net positive opinion of David. I wish him the best with what he is doing. I watch his progress with interest. I hope it turns back into something more like 80% cryptocurrency marketing and 20% (or less) charity.

And I hope he keeps coming to Dash Medellín meetups. :)
 

DavidHay

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Thanks George I had fun at the last Dash meetup.

The stickers on the desk confused me too. I never asked for them, they were made by a volunteer in Cucuta and I wasn't present when the video was recorded.

I'm sorry you were not welcome into the team. The simple answer is our core team is made up of people who believe in this project not an individual crypto currency. If we let core team members from Dash, Nano or Digibyte join I think we would loose a lot of time arguing the merits of each tech rather than developing our core business plan which we have been busily doing.
 

DavidHay

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The key question you would be wise to answer even before anyone asks it is how would such a donation benefit the Dash network?
They would get the same exposure Digibyte just got from donating the first 20 plus any additional marketing I do in the future.

Here's a video I made about Dash from last month with 32,000 views

I've proven my commitment to this project. I've done my best to work with the community but this attitude of Dash or nothing isn't healthy. The steemit community has the same problem and it hurts them more than it helps them.

We need to focus on ways for crypto to reach mass adoption and be used as digital cash. If you think people involved in the crypto space should be busy fighting each other internally then I'm not sure what to say.
 
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DavidHay

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And why do you demand the fingerprint of the poor people, in order to pay them?
Isn't this an awful privacy invasion?
Do you want to mark the poor people like the cattles?
Why dont you try the cryptoparties?
I've covered this in great detail in the past. We aren't marking them like cattle. We use a finger print scanner to create an encrypted ID. That encrypted ID is stored in a database and is queried when a new user enters the system. At no point in time do we take peoples names or personal information so if the database was hacked it would be worthless. If the encryption was broken then someone would still need to reverse engineer the process of recreating the finger print.

This system has been proven to work in the past and is 99.9% accurate. Adding another untested layer of complexity like cryptoparties wouldn't add value or improve the project.
 

George Donnelly

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Of course they can. How do you think Hostinger supports dash? They support it via https://www.coinpayments.net.
The thing is that you're not dealing with a tech-savvy marketplace, much less a crypto-savvy marketplace.

I'm sorry you were not welcome into the team. The simple answer is our core team is made up of people who believe in this project not an individual crypto currency. If we let core team members from Dash, Nano or Digibyte join I think we would loose a lot of time arguing the merits of each tech rather than developing our core business plan which we have been busily doing.
That's disingenuous at best, David.

  1. I was one of the first people who expressed support for your project to you after you released the first video about it.
  2. The only thing I ever said about Dash to you was that it would be a good fit for your project. I might have also mentioned BCH and Nano because I remember thinking they could work. I certainly never made my participation contingent on the choice of any particular cryptocurrency.
  3. I am not a core team member of Dash. I am not even DAO-funded. I didn't even participate in my first Dash meetup until after we had dinner in Medellín.

That's fine tho. Again, I wish you the best with your project.

And why you demand the fingerprint of the poor people, in order to pay them? Isn't this a privacy invasion? Do you want to mark the poor people like the cattles?
This is actually a legitimate criticism and one I mentioned to David. Venezuelans who are without the legal right to be here in Colombia, because they weren't able to afford a Venezuelan passport before leaving or for some other reason, are the most vulnerable and needy group of Venezuelan migrants.

They are scared of the in-progress Colombian census, and with good reason. It could mean their involuntary return to hunger in Venezuela.

Using fingerprint scanning is going to dis-incentivize them. Not to mention that creating a database of biometric data is risky at best. See for example what happened with the Rohingya.


They would get the same exposure Digibyte just got from donating the first 20.
"digibyte cucuta" produces zero Google News results.
 

DavidHay

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George, I've enjoyed the time we've spent together. You are an intelligent guy and I value your input.

I met you through the Dash forum, when we met in Medellin we talked about Dash a lot, sure you mentioned other cryptos but it was clear this was the one you wanted to champion. You run the local Dash Medellin meetup.

Other community members brought up your name and suggested we add you to the core team. I'll take responsibility for the no vote, the same way I voted no on members from the Nano, digibyte, smartcash, zencash teams. I've treated everyone equally so I hope you'll respect my decision.
 

DavidHay

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But why you choose the fingerprint solution, when you can organize a cryptoparty where it is 100% sure that no one could identify no one?

The cryptoparty is not complexity, it is simplicity.

You teach people how they can print their public key (cryptocurrency address), then they gather all together in a closed room and they put their printed public key into a ballot box. Then you open the ballot box, and thats how you create a credible list of unidentified (but unique) individuals.

The key concept here is that all cryptoparties should occur concurrently.
Nothing about this seems simple or tested. We are using a finger print because it will eliminate fraud and guarantee no one enters the system twice.

What stops someone from entering the "closed" room on two separate occasions and getting two addresses?
 
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DavidHay

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We are onboarding 300,000 people. That's around 1,000 people per day per office.

Now you want them to wait for their money and you want to hold a big ceremony in a stadium?

Our finger printing system already works and we have a contract with M2systems for keeping the data secure.