GetFreeDash campaign must be stopped ASAP

ec1warc1

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There have been at least ten red flags regarding the getfreedash proposals:

RED FLAG #1: 150 Dash was more than it needed to be.
RED FLAG #2: An additional 550 Dash was requested two weeks after the first proposal was funded. The request was made too quickly after the success of the first proposal.
RED FLAG #3: A static spreadsheet of transactions was provided as evidence of work done. If no analysis is done, one could conclude that it was a lot of transactions and a great expense. A brief analysis proved otherwise: 57,370 transactions to 48,818 distinct Dash Addresses, for a total of approximately $42,651.50 USD. This was the evidence provided to support the need for 550 additional Dash per month.
RED FLAG #4: This project does all of its accounting in USD, making it impossible to know how much dash has been given away.
RED FLAG #5: Getfreedash.com sends transactions in batches, not one by one. A promise was made to change this.
RED FLAG #6: People have been complaining that they are not getting paid and that the people that they have referred to the program are also not getting paid. This even though the website claims that payments have been made to these members. Numerous complaints sent to the “approved channels of communication” have been ignored by the proposal owner. This has been going on since the project received its second payment of 150 Dash.
RED FLAG #7: Getfreedash.com implements a referral program which pays amounts that are encouraging to fraudsters.
RED FLAG #8: No successes or milestones have been posted by the proposal owner.
RED FLAG #9: You can only sign up for an account on getfreedash.com if you live in particular countries such as Venezuela. You must have a cellphone in one of those countries. This makes it impossible to independently verify that the website is doing what is promises to do.

It is possible that RED FLAG #6 explains why the proposal owner has come forward with news of a “major fraud” estimated by him to have resulted in improper payouts of $10,000 USD. Whatever the case, the event of “major fraud” is RED FLAG #10.
 

Argon31

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@ec1warc1 Great points. How many red flags can you count for Ben Swann ? I am sure none because he doesnt promise any metric.

I am surprised that an underrated star doer like you is not willing to overlook problems in maximalists work but is very willing to sign off on

Open budgetary frauds by venezuela projects. ($150000 to organize a conference in caracas. give me a break)
1200 dash being burnt on completely useless advertising by feedbands
800 dash to swann every month

This smells of double standards...
 
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George Donnelly

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I'm new around here but the monthly budget is there, MNOs are smart to be risk-takers at this early stage of the Dash project, and some research into recent proposals suggests there is a lot of room for improvement across the board. Conclusion: money is inevitably going to be misspent.

Why? Because there is not enough competition for treasury funds. Yes, there are more proposals than can be funded but the quality of the proposals can be improved.

If we want to see better proposals, we need to create them and help others create them. That's the free market at work. Like how short sellers hold the feet of fraudulent firms to the fire and how inventors create better products, we need to figure out mechanisms for holding funding recipients to a high degree of accountability and we need to create better proposals and help others improve their proposals.

I suspect the best way forward is to bring lots of active and informed new users into Dash, identify and cultivate potential new leaders and get them moving towards Dash treasury proposals, because with greater competion will almost certainly come greater quality.
 
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ec1warc1

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This smells of double standards...
What do you know about my standards? I am particularly interested in getfreedash.com because it is so similar to my own project dash.red. I would hold getfreedash.com to the same standards that I hold for my own project.

This post is about getfreedash.com. If you wish to start a post about any other project, go right ahead. I might agree with you, perhaps not. But comparing my opinion regarding getfreedash.com to what you THINK are my opinions regarding other projects is inappropriate.
 

Argon31

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@ec1warc1 Dash.red is a very good use case.Your work is high quality.
You should ask for much more than 44 dash and spend it all in the same way.

Getting back, the kind of projects you support or go after is strange.
Maximalist is trying his best. he owned up to being stung by fraud.
The same thing can happen to you tomorrow but you should still be supported.

You support giving away huge sums of money to people who promote no use case, only ads or sponsorship.
But offer no support to people trying to do the difficult work.

I never heard you say the Ben Swann did nothing, despite no evidence of him promoting any use for dash. Just his own show.
 

ec1warc1

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Maximalist is trying his best.
Perhaps he is trying his best. That could be. However, the claim that he is trying to create a similar website for SmartCash is troubling to me. The claim is not without evidence:
https://vote.smartcash.cc/Proposal/...in-venezuela-by-signingup-100000-users-phase1

The writing style is his, but perhaps it is someone else. Someone should verify this. Why would he try the same business model with another group when he has so many unresolved problems with the project he created for Dash?

The other thing that I find objective with "trying his best" is the demeanor in his posts. His posts remind me of TheDashGuy.

There is NO EXCUSE for not paying people who have completed the tasks requested on his website, especially when he has been funded.

I find no need for me to defend my opinions regarding other projects in this post. This post is not about comparing MY STANDARDS from project to project.

I never heard you say the Ben Swann did nothing
What does that even mean or have to do with getfreedash.com? It's utter nonsense.
 
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Argon31

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dashguy totally burned his rep. if he promised coinbase integration for 200 dash, his proposal wouldnt pass. lol

I appreciate maximalists work but I am not so sure of my appreciation if he went ahead and pitched to smartcash..
that would be a .... move. Many of the venezuela people are doing the same, that's very low..
@Dashmaximalist is that you or has someone just copy pasted it?

It is ludicrous how much of treasury has been gifted away to vested interests, to proposals adding no value to dash use.
1200 to feedbands and 800 to swann is insane when there are so many good projects for 50 dash, 100 dash, 200 dash.
 

Macrochip

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@ec1warc1 Great points. How many red flags can you count for Ben Swann ? I am sure none because he doesnt promise any metric.

I am surprised that an underrated star doer like you is not willing to overlook problems in maximalists work but is very willing to sign off on

Open budgetary frauds by venezuela projects. ($150000 to organize a conference in caracas. give me a break)
1200 dash being burnt on completely useless advertising by feedbands
800 dash to swann every month

This smells of double standards...
Stop pushing your personal agenda in every damn thread. Nobody gives a fuck about your personal butthurt over Ben Swann. This thread is about GetFreeDash and GetFreeDash alone, so kindly shut the fuck up if you have nothing useful to contribute. Thanks. Btw I reported every single offtopic post of yours in here.

Assuming that @Dashmaximalist
It may be the most cost-effective way to on-board new Dash users.
Cost effective how?

Can you prove that the 140k signups are real people (or at least an overwhelming supermajority)? Can you prove that it increases adoption and usage of Dash?

Because if you can't prove any of that you can't reasonably declare it "cost effective", least of all "the most" cost effective when you lack the data to back up such a statement. So far this campagin had no effect on transactions per day nor active wallets per day, despite the fact that this proposal was specifically designed to increase adoption and usage! Didn't happen as anyone can check on bitinfocharts.

i did enough giveaways in my time here
to have learned : you always get scammed !
u have to be very good to not be ! (and “very good” means a ton of man power )
so 10-15% are easy something which u can write off from the beginning on unfortunately
Tungfa, the only question you need to ask yourself here is: Do you really want this proposal to eat up another 150 Dash from which an unknown amount is going to be paid to scammers? I remind you that we don't know the actual number of how much was lost. Only that 10k is the absolute minimum. Plus read the red flags Edward posted above!
 
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demo

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demo

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I appreciate maximalists work but I am not so sure of my appreciation if he went ahead and pitched to smartcash..
that would be a .... move. Many of the venezuela people are doing the same, that's very low..
@Dashmaximalist is that you or has someone just copy pasted it?
I also copy-pasted the work of @Dashmaximalist.
Many people for now on, will continue to copy-paste his work.

For example, have a look at the original site https://getfreedash.com/
and then look at the site http://getfreesmart.com/
https://www.google.com/search?q=http://getfreesmart.com
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YrdlbUXyvIoJ:www.getfreesmart.com/+&cd=1
They are identical!!!! Getfreesmart copied from Getfreedash even the total number of users! They report "Total User - 149589" !!!!!

@smartestcasher can be either @Dashmaximalist himself, or the Venezuela hackers, or the well known agents and spies, or maybe an innocent copy-paster (like I was in the case of PIVX).

 
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demo

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I am an "underrated star doer". Not to get off topic, but..... what is that? If anyone knows, please PM me.
What is that means? It means that the amount of money you are asking from the community is too low, when someone compares your work to the work some others are doing.
Please someone PM @ec1warc1, and tell him the amount of dash he should ask...

 
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TroyDASH

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Perhaps he is trying his best. That could be. However, the claim that he is trying to create a similar website for SmartCash is troubling to me. The claim is not without evidence:
https://vote.smartcash.cc/Proposal/...in-venezuela-by-signingup-100000-users-phase1

The writing style is his, but perhaps it is someone else. Someone should verify this. Why would he try the same business model with another group when he has so many unresolved problems with the project he created for Dash?
Well I guess I can't really stay out of it anymore now that it's already out in the open. I can confirm with 100% certainty that dashmaximalist is the same person as the smartcash proposal owner.

Explanation: I happen to be a long time follower of the smartcash project, and I noticed on March 31 that he joined the smartcash discord channel and started posting (note that this was the same day that the previous dash budget voting ended - in the cycle where his second, more ambitious proposal failed to pass). A few days later he changed his discord name to @cryptoridez and ended up posting about his new proposal for smartcash, and currently he is now called @smartestcasher on the smartcash discord and forum. I was going to keep quiet about it to not cause a stir and because frankly I don't care about if he has a smartcash proposal. But since it is relevant to MNOs and might affect their informed votes I asked him about it last week in the MNO channel on discord. All of this information is already available publicly if you do some searching and was all obtained from public areas, which is why I don't feel morally obligated to keep quiet.
 

ec1warc1

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I can confirm with 100% certainty that dashmaximalist is the same person as the smartcash proposal owner.
I care about the Smartcash proposal very much because it is a gigantic RED FLAG. Why would he clone his current endeavor to a different coin/community if he hasn't completed all of the tasks that he promised to complete for Dash? The timing of it stinks! It isn't right for Dash or for Smartcash.
 
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TroyDASH

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I care about the Smartcash proposal very much because it is a gigantic RED FLAG. Why would he clone his current endeavor to a different coin/community if he hasn't completed all of the tasks that he promised to complete for Dash? The timing of it stinks! It isn't right for Dash or for Smartcash.
We do have some community members and even people on the Dash dev team (I think) that are also involved with coins other than Dash. IMO the proposal for smartcash is not relevant in itself, but it is relevant *if* it means that it causes his Dash proposal to not deliver on its promises.
 

demo

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IMO the proposal for smartcash is not relevant in itself, but it is relevant *if* it means that it causes his Dash proposal to not deliver on its promises.
I think *IF* @smartestcasher is really @Dashmaximalist (let him tell us about it) then the proposal of smartcash causes benefits to the Dash community.

The task of SMS OTP is by default extremely difficult and requires a lot of R&D. If the smartcash proposal is funded, its funds will be used in order for @smartestcasher to gain more experience in the field. And *IF* @smartestcasher is really @Dashmaximalist, then this experience will be transfered automatically (without any cost!) into the Dash proposal. Smartcash pays, and Dash benefits, and that is great!

There is plenty of room for both smartcash and dash to expand around the world by using SMS-OTP , so it is tottaly stupid and short sighted for the two coins to compet eachother. The concept is tottaly new, the market is virgin, there is a lot of space, so the coins could and should cooperate eachother.
 
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TroyDASH

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I think *IF* @smartestcasher is really @Dashmaximalist (let him tell us about it) then the proposal of smartcash causes benefits to the Dash community.

The task of SMS OTP is by default extremely difficult and requires a lot of R&D. If the smartcash proposal is funded, its funds will be used in order for @smartestcasher to gain more experience in the field. And *IF* @smartestcasher is really @Dashmaximalist, then this experience will be transfered automatically (without any cost!) into the Dash proposal. Smartcash pays, and Dash benefits, and that is great!

There is plenty of room for both smartcash and dash to expand around the world by using SMS-OTP , so it is tottaly stupid and short sited for the two coins to compet eachother. The concept is tottaly new, the market is virgin, there is a lot of space, so the coins could and should cooperate eachother.
I actually agree with @demo here :confused:o_O
But I'm not sure if dashmaximalist is committed to doing it like this (not to mention the smartcash community might not react positively to this either), and there are still many other concerns that have been raised as well
 

demo

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But I'm not sure if dashmaximalist is committed to doing it like this
You speak as if it is 100% sure that the @smartestcasher is @Dashmaximalist (which is not the case). But lets suppose he really is.

If @Dashmaximalist is NOT committed to doing it like I described before, then how else could he do it???? I mean, is it possible for him to gain experience in smartcash, and when the Dash community pays him for a better version of SMS-OTP, @Dashmaximalist not to transfer his experience into Dash?
 

TroyDASH

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You speak as if it is 100% sure the @smartestcasher is @Dashmaximalist. But lets suppose he really is.
I speak that way because I have seen it with my own eyes, from when he posted in the smartcash discord channel under his original name (dashmaximalist), subsequently the name associated with those same discord posts changed to cryptoridez, cryptoridez is the one who first introduced the smartcash proposal on discord (multiple times), and the user cryptoridez is screenshotted by macrochip earlier as being the owner of the dash proposal.

If @Dashmaximalist is NOT committed to doing it like i descrubed before, how else could he do it?

I mean, is it possible for him to get experience in the filed, and when the Dash community asks him (and pays him) to implement a better version of SMS-OTP in Dash, then @Dashmaximalist not to transfer his experience here?
I don't want to speak for him, but maybe he sees it as an either/or thing. His comments on here and on the smartcash discord strongly imply that he is frustrated with dash and is very excited about smartcash. So it doesn't have to be a problem but maybe it is. idk. I would rather that he speak for himself
 

demo

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His comments on here and on the smartcash discord strongly imply that he is frustrated with dash and is very excited about smartcash.
Of course he is frustrated. Dash MNOs rejected 2 of his 3 proposals and, according to his words , he did not acquire any financial profit. .How do you expect for him to be positive to you?

*IF* @dasmaximalist really didnt acquired anything, then this means that MNOs tend to reject people who want to unselfishly offer to the community. And, at the same time, history proves that MNOs often welcome people who receive money and they deliver nothing. How can someone be excited about that?
 
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TroyDASH

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Of course he is frustrated. Dash MNOs rejected 2 of his 3 of proposals and, according to his words , he did not acquire any financial profit.
How do you expect for him to be happy?
No, I didn't say I expected anything.
 

demo

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I speak that way because I have seen it with my own eyes, from when he posted in the smartcash discord channel under his original name (dashmaximalist), subsequently the name associated with those same discord posts changed to cryptoridez, cryptoridez is the one who first introduced the smartcash proposal on discord (multiple times), and the user cryptoridez is screenshotted by macrochip earlier as being the owner of the dash proposal.
Can you somehow prove your claims, or we just have to trust you ? Satoshi taught us never trust anyone. Can you prove your claims by using a trustless system?
 

TroyDASH

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Can you somehow prove your claims, or we just have to trust you ? Satoshi taught us never trust anyone. Can you prove your claims by using a trustless system?
I'm not going to go through the trouble. If dashmaximalist denies this then I'll be happy to provide screenshots, so he has no reason at this point to be dishonest about it.
 

demo

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I'm not going to go through the trouble. If dashmaximalist denies this then I'll be happy to provide screenshots, so he has no reason at this point to be dishonest about it.
Do you really have screenshots of all these actions of @Dashmaximalist?
You are a proffesional! You should join @DashWatchTeam !:p
But how can we be sure that your screenshoots are genuine and not fake?
Have you timestamped them somewhere?
 
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DeepBlue

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What is our role here at these forums? What is our motivation to post our messages? Is it for support? To state the truth, at least, as we see it? Are we feeling inspired or frustrated? What is our role with these forums?

We all have an opinion, a point of view. That point of view is of tremendous value to share because it helps others see a new way of thinking. It helps us think in a new way and expands our minds out of the little boxes we normally operate out of. It may not be easy to hear because it challenges us. It may not be easy to say our view because it may go against what everyone else is saying or believing.

If you were to ask what these forums are about in essence,, perhaps it is about having the courage to honestly speak out and express what we believe. Whether that be support, disagreement with an argument, pointing out weaknesses or possible opportunities. It is about taking the risk that our comments may well be disliked, criticized or disagreed with. Provided people posting feedback are careful to attack the arguments and not the person making them then feedback is positive.

Every person has a right to disagree with a point of view of another. That is what makes us evolved as a community

@Dashmaximilist has good intentions and has the basis of a solid concept that is helping spread the word about DASH in a practical way. He is also courageous enough to put his own time and money into the project which he started out of nothing. An idea out of nothing. He put his own time and money into the project that alone is to be commended.

If we way up his project as a whole has it done more good than harm? If you feel it has done more good perhaps show some support. If you feel it has done more harm suggest specifically how it could be improved.

I believe the getfreedash project concept is of value to the Dash network and particularly to new Dash users if it can be executed without the issues the project is facing. The project simply needs to be modified to deal with the issues it is facing. Then I think we could say with some certainty it is a good project especially if we could get something in return for the DASH e.g. if all users could agree to create a email signature that says something like:

"DASH Digital Cash the revolutionary new cryptocurrency is the solution to Venezuela's currency crisis. To find out how you can start using DASH as a safe, secure currency in Venezuela visit http://dashhelpme.org to learn more"

Imagine how many emails a person sends out in a year. Would that be worth $0.5 ?

Should we support someone when they have good intentions but haven't quite got the formula right yet?

At this stage I probably would not vote for more money to be used on the getfreedash project until the challenges faced are solved. Once solved however I think this project is of tremendous value to both DASH and Venezuela. Perhaps we should be a little more understanding. A project cannot be perfect from the start. It is necessary to find and deal with problems for it to be improved. Are we the type of community to kick a person when they are facing challenges, when they are at their most vulnerable or do we raise our concerns and still give our support?

We don't find people like Dashmaximilist every day. Perhaps we should consider what good has been achieved with this project, what dashmaximilist has contributed and give a little support to someone that has good intentions for Dash and its users.
 

Macrochip

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Should we support someone when they have good intentions but haven't quite got the formula right yet?
Obviously not. We're not here to pay for your startup idea or experiment. Our Treasury is here to pay for professionals, not amateurs who waste our money on scammers.

You seem to have missed the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

As far as the "his own money" argument goes: Prove it: I haven't seen any evidence of him using his own money. Actually I saw him soliciting up-front loans from community members when he ran out of the money the Treasury granted him. Despite that he has the nerve to claim he got "absolutely nothing in return" from this community. How much Dash did he pocket for himself as payment for his service? Was it a reasonable amount? Or was he involved in the loss of the funds?

A thief would never call the police when he robbed his own house, right...?

Perhaps we should consider what good has been achieved with this project
Ok, let's consider. The goal of this campaign was to increase usage and adoption of Dash. So we have to look at active addresses and transactions per day. Let's look at the last 3 months:



Both charts are all over the place but certainly not going upwards.

If we really reached 140,000(!!!) people as this campaign is constantly being advertised with, then please excuse me for asking when I say: Where the fuck are they on those charts??
 
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George Donnelly

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Then I think we could say with some certainty it is a good project especially if we could get something in return for the DASH e.g. if all users could agree to create a email signature that says something like.
That's a challenge to get any certainty of the user actually doing it but there is off the shelf software that can be deployed that makes it mandatory for the user to, say, share something on Facebook, before proceeding to getting what they want.

Another valuable action is when a user opts into a legally administered mailing list. If we had a mailing list of everyone who had gotten free Dash, we could be doing wonderful things with it.
 
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demo

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If we really reached 140,000(!!!) people as this campaign is constantly being advertised with, then please excuse me for asking when I say: Where the fuck are they on those charts??
And why dont you ask the same for all the other advertising proposals that are supposed to add more members in Dash and provide Dash awareness ?

Obviously most of the 140000 persons who received the getfreedash dividend, keep the dash and they do not spend it, because they dont know where to do it and because they hope its price will rise. And this is a fundamental flaw of Dash. Dash is still a collectible item and not money. Dont blame getfreedash campaign for that.

 
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DeepBlue

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Hello
whenever anyone, no matter how professional starts a new venture that nobody has ever done before there are going to be crash and burn moments. That does not mean they are not acting professionally. It means they have major challenges to overcome. Consider Elon Musk with his spaceX campaigns. He lost 3 giant rockets and blew nearly all his money on the program. Does that make Elon Musk unprofessional? Elon Musk was also self taught for building rockets - something that could be classed as being totally unsuitable for him. But Elon had positive intentions, learnt from the mistakes and moved on to eventually solve these issues and now he has a world class rocket business that can out compete every rocket company in the world for price including NASA's own program.

Edison is reputed to have tried 10,000 different ways to create a lightbulb and when someone said to him he had failed Edison replied "no, I've found 10,000 ways in which the light bulb does not work" What would have happened if Edison just gave up? I would have imagined that the sponsors of Edison at the time might have started thinking he was wasting their money. I wonder however if those same people now consider it a waste?

I know also in my career I've had very challenging times were my project was not working where things did not work out as I had planned. But by gathering the data, analysing it and working out a new way I eventually solved all those problems. In fact what I learned was often the problem was pointing me in the right direction for the solution but I just did not see it at the time. What counts is if someone is learning and adapting to those problems and actively working on fixing them. What counts is that we learn from them and adapt from them.

In order for us to have a chance to solve the problems faced with this project we need to first list all the problems that need to be solved and then see if we can find solutions to each of those problems. Then we need to state specifically ideally how would we want this program to work. If it was working perfectly how would that look like?


I am going to list the problems to be solved with the project here. If anyone can add to this list please feel free. We want to list as many problems and issues as possible so that we have them all out on the table so that we know what we are actually dealing with.

1. We are unable to validate for certain the recipient's identity as being unique. They could be one, or a small group of people that are claiming the free dash.
2. We don't know if a fraudulent user has access to a large number of SIM cards from a source and using those or not. SIM's are the unique record source for validation.
3. Once claimed the recipients are not using their DASH because:

a) they might not know what to do with the DASH
b) are keeping it as a speculative investment hoping the price of DASH will go up.

4. Due to the scale of the project validating of the large number of transactions is a challenge because it is being done fully manually.

5. There are questions as to where the DASH is going and how it is distributed. How much is going to the project owner (if any) and how much is going to recipients.

6. In addition to the above issues I see the other issues that need to be solved are data protection laws that must be adhered to when storing and processing information about people e.g. names, addresses, telephone numbers etc. We need to ensure this project complies with those data protection laws.

I will wait for replies to see what other issues / problems are with this project so that we have everything on the table first before we start considering possible solutions to these problems.


You seem to have missed the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
Yes, that statement can be true but it is also true to say "nothing ventured, nothing gained" So which one is more true?

Do we want this project to have a chance of success? If so I think we have more chance of that if we try and at least find solutions to the issues on the project. If we cannot find solutions to all the issues then we would have to re-assess the project and see if there is another way to achieve the same results but without the issues we are facing on this project.