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DashPay - WooCommerce Plugin [coming soon]

That is awesome, great work!!

Just one question: is it possible to keep the currency of the website in USD/EUR/whatever and have the plugin convert to DASH when the buyer selects that specific payment method? I'm assuming it is because you have the exchange rate multiplier option, but couldn't see that in action.

Yes, you can denominate the store in fiat and it will pull a live Dash exchange rate. I'm still working on non-fiat to non-fait exchange rates ATM (e.g. BTC to Dash). But I think that's a really really small chance of happening at the moment, since there aren't many BTC/LTC, etc. plugins right now. It's based on your WooCommerce store denomination. I just wanted to demonstrate that you could set prices directly in Dash.

Awesome plug-in, easy to use for woocommerce webshop owners. Will you be selling the plugin or will people have to pay a small percentage per transaction?

I will be selling the plugin for a one-time payment. I don't even have the ability for people to pay per transaction as it uses BIP32 public keys to allow customers to deposit direct to a store owner's Electrum wallet -- I'm not processing payments in any way.

Btw that D is commonly used for DOGE I believe. Is there a chance you can use proper Dash symbol?

https://www.dash.org/promotional-graphics/ has

but no link and no usage/copyright info.

pinging fernando and raze :rolleyes:

I wasn't going to use one at all, but WooCommerce expects a currency character symbol when you add a currency, and it looks really odd when you leave it out (as in, they display a character placeholder that's empty and looks really weird). So I chose the Vietnamese Dong symbol because it looks kinda like the Dash graphic 'D'. I'm not sure if I could stick a non-UTF8 character in there or if a reference to a graphic would work.

I agree that the D used in the plugin is usually associated with Doge, not Dash...

Yeah, I'm not really concerned with the character used... but for the sake of argument, similarly, "$" is used for both dollars (USD, CAD, AUD, NZD, HKD, etc) and pesos (MXN, ARS, CLP, etc) around the world. :shrug:
 
Having to pay after placing the order is weird and customers will have no idea what's going on. Can that come on the Order page like every other payment method? IT's hard enough getting most people to type in their credit card number properly... The idea that they have been told the order has been placed, but then they still haven't actually paid... There will be endless confusion and rage... It should be impossible to click the button until a payment is validated.
 
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If using fiat symbol, and DASH exchange rate conversion is taking place at checkout, can the symbol be avoided altogether? Essentially insulate WooCommerece from even knowing that DASH isn't Dollars? All WooCommerce really needs to know is that the payment is valid. No need to deal with telling it of another currency, symbol, etc.
 
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Having to pay after placing the order is weird and customers will have no idea what's going on. Can that come on the Order page like every other payment method? IT's hard enough getting most people to type in their credit card number properly... The idea that they have been told the order has been placed, but then they still haven't actually paid... There will be endless confusion and rage... It should be impossible to click the button until a payment is validated.

I think that is how woocommerce works, not sure he can change anything there without changing woocommerce, which is probably more than what most site owners are eager to do:
1. Put items in your cart
2. Go to your cart and click checkout
3. Introduce your shipping data and chose payment method
4. Click pay and new page for details about payment method chosen (in this case, a new address is shown for payment, in Paypal's, their own page)
5. When payment is complete you get redirected to the shop webpage

What you are saying is that 3&4 should be in the same page, right? I agree it'd be better, but I don't see it as a really big deal... but maybe I'm too used to broken user experiences with Paypal :wink:

Support for IX?

Electrum doesn't support IX yet :sad:
 
Having to pay after placing the order is weird and customers will have no idea what's going on. Can that come on the Order page like every other payment method? IT's hard enough getting most people to type in their credit card number properly... The idea that they have been told the order has been placed, but then they still haven't actually paid... There will be endless confusion and rage... It should be impossible to click the button until a payment is validated.

Yeah, fernando got it right — don't think that's something I can really change without digging into the internals of WooCommerce and maybe not even then.

If using fiat symbol, and DASH exchange rate conversion is taking place at checkout, can the symbol be avoided altogether? Essentially insulate WooCommerece from even knowing that DASH isn't Dollars? All WooCommerce really needs to know is that the payment is valid. No need to deal with telling it of another currency, symbol, etc.

It doesn't display any symbol when rate conversions are done. It will look something like this: imgur.com/ZvhBDJi

Support for IX?

In the future, I intend to add InstantX support, but my focus currently is on getting this released first. It will take a bit more effort to add IX. Since this is for online orders and mostly automated, IX is more of a novelty at this point. But yes, it is on the roadmap.
 
I think that is how woocommerce works, not sure he can change anything there without changing woocommerce, which is probably more than what most site owners are eager to do:
1. Put items in your cart
2. Go to your cart and click checkout
3. Introduce your shipping data and chose payment method
4. Click pay and new page for details about payment method chosen (in this case, a new address is shown for payment, in Paypal's, their own page)
5. When payment is complete you get redirected to the shop webpage

What you are saying is that 3&4 should be in the same page, right? I agree it'd be better, but I don't see it as a really big deal... but maybe I'm too used to broken user experiences with Paypal :wink:

Electrum doesn't support IX yet :sad:
I have WooCommerce. For a few years now. Before DASH existed. What you have described is definitely not how it works.

What the video showed is:
1) Put items in cart
2) Go to your cart and select check out
3) Put in name/address infos
4) Select payment method
5) Submit order
6) Take customer to Order Complete page without any payment being made, which results in an email to them telling them that the order is complete and will ship out soon, not to mention being on the "Order Complete" page which kinda suggests that the order is complete. It also results in the order being shown as paid for and ready to ship in the back-end. Even though this is not true. How much free stuff will I ship?
7) Tell the customer the Order is complete even though payment is still being requested below on the page that is telling them that the order is complete... I wonder how this shows up in the back end? How will I know if payment was actually made or not? Since it never verified the payment before declaring the order complete, and expects people to figure out and understand that they still have to pay, and has no means of verifying that payment was actually made...

How WooCommerce works (because I have it and have always done this):
1) Put items in cart.
2) Go to your cart and select check out.
3) Put in name/address infos
4) Select payment method
5) Submit order
6) Verify if payment is successful
6a) If successful, go to order complete page
6b) If not, allow edit of details and resubmit

Even when I accepted BitPay and Coinbase, this is exactly how it was done.

Breaking from the normal pattern will confuse people who are already confused by crypto in the first place. Why pull the rug our from under people who can barely stand up as it is, and have trouble enough putting in their credit card number...

Please understand that my criticism isn't really criticism. I really, really, really want to use this on my site. But if it doesn't work properly, I'm not going to. You need to dig deeper because I've seen plenty of plugins that do what you say can't be done... I'll even beta-test it, and pay you for the privilege. But it has to function properly, not function sort-of, in a weird and confusing way. which results in people being able to submit orders and never pay for them, and never be asked to pay until after the order is marked as complete... Causing the store owner to ship out stuff that was never paid for, not to mention disrupting the pattern of paying and THEN getting order confirmation that people are used to, and which makes sense... This is how eCommerce... Breaking from that pattern is a huge problem, as you can see. Never, ever confirm an order before payment is verified!

If WooCommerce never knows that any currency except Dollars exists, then this gets much simpler. Quit fooling around with adding a currency to WooCommerce, there is absolutely no need to do that. It's a tangent that creates problems and has no use. Follow Coinbase's example. When the DASH payment method is picked by the user, this is where the QR code shows up and a DASH exchange rate is used to pick the number of DASH needed. It's completely isolated and responds simply by telling WooCommerce that the amount, in Dollars, has been confirmed/verified; maybe it just polls the address on chainz until it sees a TX for exactly the requested amount show up?

Exactly like how the Credit Card option is selected, this is where the CCNumber, EXPDate, and CCV fields show up. You can't go past that point without a verified payment. Look at how existing plugins work and you'll see what you're doing wrong.

In summation:

1) The pattern is wrong and creates multiple tragic outcomes.

2) It'll get a lot easier to do this if WooCommerce never even knows that DASH is a thing. It doesn't need to know. Focus, man! Quit giving yourself headaches working on something that serves no purpose and creates problems.

Go to my terrible-looking half-assed website: gunthreadadapters.com for an example. TheDashGuy, Y U NO FIX MAH OLD AN BUSTED WEBSITE?
 
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What the video showed is:
1) Put items in cart
2) Go to your cart and select check out
3) Put in name/address infos
4) Select payment method
5) Submit order
6) Take customer to Order Complete page without any payment being made, which results in an email to them telling them that the order is complete and will ship out soon, not to mention being on the "Order Complete" page which kinda suggests that the order is complete. It also results in the order being shown as paid for and ready to ship in the back-end. Even though this is not true. How much free stuff will I ship?
7) Tell the customer the Order is complete even though payment is still being requested below on the page that is telling them that the order is complete... I wonder how this shows up in the back end? How will I know if payment was actually made or not? Since it never verified the payment before declaring the order complete, and expects people to figure out and understand that they still have to pay, and has no means of verifying that payment was actually made...

I believe it's an "Order Received" page -- not order complete. Where does it say order complete? An email is not fired until the WooCommerce order is marked as "complete" in WooCommerce, and I'm definitely not marking it as complete until the order has been paid.

How WooCommerce works (because I have it and have always done this):

1) Put items in cart.
2) Go to your cart and select check out.
3) Put in name/address infos
4) Select payment method
5) Submit order
6) Verify if payment is successful
6a) If successful, go to order complete page
6b) If not, allow edit of details and resubmit

That's not really how FinTech works, though, is it? You don't submit payment information to the WooCommerce site. You pay thru the Dash network, and the site detects the payment thru the same network. There's no "edit payment details" or re-submission of them.


But it has to function properly, not function sort-of, in a weird and confusing way. which results in people being able to submit orders and never pay for them, and never be asked to pay until after the order is marked as complete... Causing the store owner to ship out stuff that was never paid for, not to mention disrupting the pattern of paying and THEN getting order confirmation that people are used to, and which makes sense... This is how eCommerce... Breaking from that pattern is a huge problem, as you can see. Never, ever confirm an order before payment is verified!

I think the checkout flow is pretty straightforward. It creates an invoice, and then the customer sends the payment. The owner doesn't ship anything that wasn't paid for. It doesn't mark anything as paid until paid. I'm not sure where you got that idea. The video didn't show any order completion logic.

If WooCommerce never knows that any currency except Dollars exists, then this gets much simpler. Quit fooling around with adding a currency to WooCommerce, there is absolutely no need to do that. It's a tangent that creates problems and has no use.

I believe that store admins should have the option to denominate orders in Dash if they choose. It's not "fooling around", it was written once, and done. Most users will have the store denominated in their own fiat currency and that's fine. WooCommerce won't know or care that the gateway expects to be paid in Dash.

Look at how existing plugins work and you'll see what you're doing wrong

I'm sorry you think that I'm doing something wrong. I'm pretty satisfied with how it works myself.

1) The pattern is wrong and creates multiple tragic outcomes.

I don't think so. The pattern exists as-is for a reason. I can't add meta values such as a Dash payment address, etc, without first creating the order in WooCommerce. Please note that creating an order is not the same as "completing" an order. It's just creating an invoice.


Thank you for your feedback.
 
Ok camosoul , I looked into other plugins and think that I get the gist of what you're saying.

I've recorded a screencast in response to these concerns regarding the order/processing of payments:


Edit: Linked to the new video, much higher quality.
 
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Ok, sorry about that. The video quality of the first YouTube video was total shite. I have uploaded a new one in its place.

The point is, it doesn't make sense to follow the credit-card standard of accepting inputs and then querying the closed system to ask for an authorization. And it doesn't make sense to present a "possible" way for the user to pay, then ask them to click "place order" after they've already paid. That would be backwards.
 
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Ok camosoul , I looked into other plugins and think that I get the gist of what you're saying.

I've recorded a screencast in response to these concerns regarding the order/processing of payments:


Edit: Linked to the new video, much higher quality.
That's an excuse based on valid point.

Compare apples with apples. Yes. We already know the dynamic for CCs isn't the same as for Crypto. But then you build a bridge too far.

There's a reason coinbase doesn't do what you're doing.

Set up coinbase payments and see how that works.

When payment is detected, then automagically push the button.

Use coinbase's system.

You don't push the button. It pushes the button for you.

When you click "pay with coinbase" an overlay comes up on the screen, with QR, etc. When it realizes that the payment has been sent, poof, order complete.

The Fintech Paradigm has adapted to this, because this is best.

I'm not saying your plugin sucks. Don't take it that way.

I'm saying that coinbase didn't use this valid point as an excuse. They found what works EVEN BETTER and did that.

Call it a future update. You're working hard man. I'm not coming down on you... I'm saying that what works for CCs isn't what works for Crypto. You've already pointed that out and we agree. I'm voting for your proposal as soon as my MN migration is complete... It's kind of a job... ;-) My only major complaint with the proposal is that you're not asking for anywhere near enough money.

It's not that the paradigm is different. It's what you've done about it, or failed to do about it, that is wrong. See coinbase's example for how it's done right.

Why not be every bit as slick and perfect as that when you already did 98% of the work? To get it wrong at the last second?

The easiest way to see how coinbase does it, is to buy an amazon gift card with egifter.com - it automagically completes the transaction. I string together tx triggered events across multiple platforms like this.

Go to amazon.com and place my order all the way up to the payment part where you can put in a gift card code.

I open a new tab and go to egifter.com, where I buy an amazon.com gift card, and select pay with bitcoin. The coinbase overlay appears with the address and amount and the 15 minute countdown.

I open another tab... Go to shapeshift.io. I select dash to btc. I put in the amount of BTC I want, which I copy/pasted from the coinbase overlay on egifter's site. I also use that address for the payout address on shapeshift.io. I submit. shapeshift.io tells me what DASH address I need to send how much DASH to.

I open my DASH core wallet, and send from darksent balance to that address. Don't use IX, because shapeshift.io doesn't support it and WILL IGNORE THE PAYMENT. Shapeshift.io then instantly shows that it received the payment, and is awaiting trade. This usually takes less than 5 minutes, which is good, becuase the countdown on egifter has been rolling this whole time. As soon as the trade occurs, they send out the BTC to the egifter/coinbase address, and that automatically happens. Now all I ahve to do is copy/paste my amazon code into the coupon code section, and check out. A few days alter my crap shows up.

It's a big chain reaction without pushing buttons for any of the crypto part. All of these sites detect the tx and then just do it. No button pushing. That's how it's done.

Shapeshift.io has that shameful lack of IX followed by the even worse problem of ignoting an IX TX even after it hits the blockchain!

Now, even among crypto and tech savvy people, who the hell does that other than me? Do you really expect me to tell my customers to do that? They can barely type in their CC numbers, and often just email it! or take a picture of the card and email it! OMG, effing amazing stupidity and dangerous...

This is why I don't accept BTC, either... It's absurd. Also, the fact that I have to use a middle man, like coinbase, who can impose restrictions. I partly understand. coinbase currently implements Obama's sick lie of "Operation Choke Point." Fraudulently declaring all gun-related sales as "high risk" when in reality,t here is no such thing as a transaction that is lower risk. And where is the risk with crypto, anyway? There is none! That's one of crypto's major selling points. But coinbase would get leaned on if they didn't go along with it, so they persecute all non-democrat business as they are ordered by the current regime.

I can exchange it if I want to. Which I don't. The exchange doesn't need to know what my business is. They can't find out if I don't tell them. They can't persecute me unless they do it by name without even the bullshit excuse of going along with an evil regime that's persecuting those it disagrees with using lies and slander with no basis in reality. I can exchange somewhere else to protest their collusion with evil. I can do whatever the hell I want, dammit! It's DASH, bitches!

Whether it be IX or not, you have to detect the TX. IX isn't so important online as in face-to-face TXs. But, at least don't get it as horribly wrong as shapeshift.io does and ignore it altogether just because it's IX!
 
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The next argument I've seen is that most vendors will want to cash out to fiat.

Not me!

You want a vendor that doesn't care about a fiat exchange? Where you gonna ever find that?

I am that guy. I'm probably the only one... But, here I am. Your perfect real-world test platform. How could you ask for more?
 
Damn. I just accidentally merged TaoOfSatoshi messages into the one our new spammer posted and they disappeared forever...
Sorry for that, here's a quote:
taoofsatoshi said:
nmarley I also think Camo's idea is a good one. Keep it as simple as possible, let the software automatically detect the transaction and finalize the order. Coinbase's model is slick...

Let the customer press "Create order", then go to the pending screen to send Dash. Once they send the payment, send the customer to an "Thank you for your payment, your order is complete" screen. That is the simplest way.

camosoul Why don't you use Purse.io? You could save 20% and save a step because it has Shapeshift integration...
 
The next argument I've seen is that most vendors will want to cash out to fiat.

Not me!

You want a vendor that doesn't care about a fiat exchange? Where you gonna ever find that?

I am that guy. I'm probably the only one... But, here I am. Your perfect real-world test platform. How could you ask for more?

Perfect!

I think one of the things that stops people up is the whole fiat conversion thing. That's a huge mess of KYC/AML, etc.

In software engineering, there's something called "separation of duties". I think that the people designing solutions could come up with a lot more, and without worrying about that mental "fiat" barrier, if these were separated logically.

Create merchant solutions to let people accept Dash. The first ones to do so will already know how to turn that into fiat. In the meantime, it would give people who have Dash a reason to spend it (to buy things privately, without scrutiny, quickly, simply). It would also help answer the inevitable question from "regular" people: "Well, what can I buy with Dash?"
 
nmarley I also think Camo's idea is a good one. Keep it as simple as possible, let the software automatically detect the transaction and finalize the order. Coinbase's model is slick...

Let the customer press "Create order", then go to the pending screen to send Dash. Once they send the payment, send the customer to an "Thank you for your payment, your order is complete" screen. That is the simplest way.

camosoul Why don't you use Purse.io? You could save 20% and save a step because it has Shapeshift integration...

That's pretty much what happens... I'll post a new video soon showing the full life-cycle of the plugin.
 
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