DashPay - WooCommerce Plugin [coming soon]

nmarley

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Ok camosoul , I looked into other plugins and think that I get the gist of what you're saying.

I've recorded a screencast in response to these concerns regarding the order/processing of payments:


Edit: Linked to the new video, much higher quality.
 
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nmarley

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Ok, sorry about that. The video quality of the first YouTube video was total shite. I have uploaded a new one in its place.

The point is, it doesn't make sense to follow the credit-card standard of accepting inputs and then querying the closed system to ask for an authorization. And it doesn't make sense to present a "possible" way for the user to pay, then ask them to click "place order" after they've already paid. That would be backwards.
 
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TaoOfSatoshi

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camosoul

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Ok camosoul , I looked into other plugins and think that I get the gist of what you're saying.

I've recorded a screencast in response to these concerns regarding the order/processing of payments:


Edit: Linked to the new video, much higher quality.
That's an excuse based on valid point.

Compare apples with apples. Yes. We already know the dynamic for CCs isn't the same as for Crypto. But then you build a bridge too far.

There's a reason coinbase doesn't do what you're doing.

Set up coinbase payments and see how that works.

When payment is detected, then automagically push the button.

Use coinbase's system.

You don't push the button. It pushes the button for you.

When you click "pay with coinbase" an overlay comes up on the screen, with QR, etc. When it realizes that the payment has been sent, poof, order complete.

The Fintech Paradigm has adapted to this, because this is best.

I'm not saying your plugin sucks. Don't take it that way.

I'm saying that coinbase didn't use this valid point as an excuse. They found what works EVEN BETTER and did that.

Call it a future update. You're working hard man. I'm not coming down on you... I'm saying that what works for CCs isn't what works for Crypto. You've already pointed that out and we agree. I'm voting for your proposal as soon as my MN migration is complete... It's kind of a job... ;-) My only major complaint with the proposal is that you're not asking for anywhere near enough money.

It's not that the paradigm is different. It's what you've done about it, or failed to do about it, that is wrong. See coinbase's example for how it's done right.

Why not be every bit as slick and perfect as that when you already did 98% of the work? To get it wrong at the last second?

The easiest way to see how coinbase does it, is to buy an amazon gift card with egifter.com - it automagically completes the transaction. I string together tx triggered events across multiple platforms like this.

Go to amazon.com and place my order all the way up to the payment part where you can put in a gift card code.

I open a new tab and go to egifter.com, where I buy an amazon.com gift card, and select pay with bitcoin. The coinbase overlay appears with the address and amount and the 15 minute countdown.

I open another tab... Go to shapeshift.io. I select dash to btc. I put in the amount of BTC I want, which I copy/pasted from the coinbase overlay on egifter's site. I also use that address for the payout address on shapeshift.io. I submit. shapeshift.io tells me what DASH address I need to send how much DASH to.

I open my DASH core wallet, and send from darksent balance to that address. Don't use IX, because shapeshift.io doesn't support it and WILL IGNORE THE PAYMENT. Shapeshift.io then instantly shows that it received the payment, and is awaiting trade. This usually takes less than 5 minutes, which is good, becuase the countdown on egifter has been rolling this whole time. As soon as the trade occurs, they send out the BTC to the egifter/coinbase address, and that automatically happens. Now all I ahve to do is copy/paste my amazon code into the coupon code section, and check out. A few days alter my crap shows up.

It's a big chain reaction without pushing buttons for any of the crypto part. All of these sites detect the tx and then just do it. No button pushing. That's how it's done.

Shapeshift.io has that shameful lack of IX followed by the even worse problem of ignoting an IX TX even after it hits the blockchain!

Now, even among crypto and tech savvy people, who the hell does that other than me? Do you really expect me to tell my customers to do that? They can barely type in their CC numbers, and often just email it! or take a picture of the card and email it! OMG, effing amazing stupidity and dangerous...

This is why I don't accept BTC, either... It's absurd. Also, the fact that I have to use a middle man, like coinbase, who can impose restrictions. I partly understand. coinbase currently implements Obama's sick lie of "Operation Choke Point." Fraudulently declaring all gun-related sales as "high risk" when in reality,t here is no such thing as a transaction that is lower risk. And where is the risk with crypto, anyway? There is none! That's one of crypto's major selling points. But coinbase would get leaned on if they didn't go along with it, so they persecute all non-democrat business as they are ordered by the current regime.

I can exchange it if I want to. Which I don't. The exchange doesn't need to know what my business is. They can't find out if I don't tell them. They can't persecute me unless they do it by name without even the bullshit excuse of going along with an evil regime that's persecuting those it disagrees with using lies and slander with no basis in reality. I can exchange somewhere else to protest their collusion with evil. I can do whatever the hell I want, dammit! It's DASH, bitches!

Whether it be IX or not, you have to detect the TX. IX isn't so important online as in face-to-face TXs. But, at least don't get it as horribly wrong as shapeshift.io does and ignore it altogether just because it's IX!
 
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camosoul

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The next argument I've seen is that most vendors will want to cash out to fiat.

Not me!

You want a vendor that doesn't care about a fiat exchange? Where you gonna ever find that?

I am that guy. I'm probably the only one... But, here I am. Your perfect real-world test platform. How could you ask for more?
 

UdjinM6

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Damn. I just accidentally merged TaoOfSatoshi messages into the one our new spammer posted and they disappeared forever...
Sorry for that, here's a quote:
taoofsatoshi said:
nmarley I also think Camo's idea is a good one. Keep it as simple as possible, let the software automatically detect the transaction and finalize the order. Coinbase's model is slick...

Let the customer press "Create order", then go to the pending screen to send Dash. Once they send the payment, send the customer to an "Thank you for your payment, your order is complete" screen. That is the simplest way.

camosoul Why don't you use Purse.io? You could save 20% and save a step because it has Shapeshift integration...
 

nmarley

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The next argument I've seen is that most vendors will want to cash out to fiat.

Not me!

You want a vendor that doesn't care about a fiat exchange? Where you gonna ever find that?

I am that guy. I'm probably the only one... But, here I am. Your perfect real-world test platform. How could you ask for more?
Perfect!

I think one of the things that stops people up is the whole fiat conversion thing. That's a huge mess of KYC/AML, etc.

In software engineering, there's something called "separation of duties". I think that the people designing solutions could come up with a lot more, and without worrying about that mental "fiat" barrier, if these were separated logically.

Create merchant solutions to let people accept Dash. The first ones to do so will already know how to turn that into fiat. In the meantime, it would give people who have Dash a reason to spend it (to buy things privately, without scrutiny, quickly, simply). It would also help answer the inevitable question from "regular" people: "Well, what can I buy with Dash?"
 

nmarley

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nmarley I also think Camo's idea is a good one. Keep it as simple as possible, let the software automatically detect the transaction and finalize the order. Coinbase's model is slick...

Let the customer press "Create order", then go to the pending screen to send Dash. Once they send the payment, send the customer to an "Thank you for your payment, your order is complete" screen. That is the simplest way.

camosoul Why don't you use Purse.io? You could save 20% and save a step because it has Shapeshift integration...
That's pretty much what happens... I'll post a new video soon showing the full life-cycle of the plugin.
 

nmarley

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camosoul

I'll address your payment flow points a little later when I have a bit more time, but basically here's the gist:

I agree that your model is the most logical, but you have to remember that I'm working within the confines of WooCommerce. If the users could first choose a payment method, then everything else would be easier.

But WooCommerce makes a lot of assumptions about payments. Notice that they ask you for billing address information before you even choose a payment method! But that doesn't make sense if you're using crypto...? Well, for one, WC was around before crypto, and for two, it's still based on the assumption that billing fields are mostly going to be required. Even the shipping ties in to that.

Like I said, I agree that there are better payment flows, your suggested one works great. But it's a matter of fitting this into the current functioning WooCommerce system as opposed to trying to re-write an entire e-Commerce cart/checkout system. And it might even be possible with WC, but I haven't been able to get nearly that much done yet.
 

TaoOfSatoshi

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camosoul

I'll address your payment flow points a little later when I have a bit more time, but basically here's the gist:

I agree that your model is the most logical, but you have to remember that I'm working within the confines of WooCommerce. If the users could first choose a payment method, then everything else would be easier.

But WooCommerce makes a lot of assumptions about payments. Notice that they ask you for billing address information before you even choose a payment method! But that doesn't make sense if you're using crypto...? Well, for one, WC was around before crypto, and for two, it's still based on the assumption that billing fields are mostly going to be required. Even the shipping ties in to that.

Like I said, I agree that there are better payment flows, your suggested one works great. But it's a matter of fitting this into the current functioning WooCommerce system as opposed to trying to re-write an entire e-Commerce cart/checkout system. And it might even be possible with WC, but I haven't been able to get nearly that much done yet.
Work with what you got, but if you can change it, seize the day! Making DASH easier to use than fiat or credit cards should be our goal.
 

camosoul

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camosoul

I'll address your payment flow points a little later when I have a bit more time, but basically here's the gist:

I agree that your model is the most logical, but you have to remember that I'm working within the confines of WooCommerce. If the users could first choose a payment method, then everything else would be easier.

But WooCommerce makes a lot of assumptions about payments. Notice that they ask you for billing address information before you even choose a payment method! But that doesn't make sense if you're using crypto...? Well, for one, WC was around before crypto, and for two, it's still based on the assumption that billing fields are mostly going to be required. Even the shipping ties in to that.

Like I said, I agree that there are better payment flows, your suggested one works great. But it's a matter of fitting this into the current functioning WooCommerce system as opposed to trying to re-write an entire e-Commerce cart/checkout system. And it might even be possible with WC, but I haven't been able to get nearly that much done yet.
Any deliverable, tangible product needs an address to ship it to...

Get the ball of clay, then mold it.

Look at how coinbase does it. It's open source, just copy/paste. ;-)

Stand alone system that allow payments with no middle man have never been possible online. You're it man!

What kind of access do you need to my busted-ass website in order to goof with it?
 

camosoul

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TaoOfSatoshi said:
camosoul Why don't you use Purse.io? You could save 20% and save a step because it has Shapeshift integration...
NO MIDDLE MEN! THERE WILL BE NONE! NO! The one thing crypoto excells at doing, and what has been done for 8.5 years now? Injected middle men into the process where we love to brag that middle men can be skipped. Adding in the persecution, manipulation, fees... The whole point is to NOT have that! Especially in my line of business! We're being targeted every day, some of us are being murdered and it's not even in the news because the media is complicit. The only reason I'm alive is because I have a reputation due to previous failed attempts.
 
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camosoul

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Work with what you got, but if you can change it, seize the day! Making DASH easier to use than fiat or credit cards should be our goal.
By all means. I'm only stating not to rest on laurels. I know this is a hell of a lot of work. Fuck man, I made a vending machine... You don't have to tell me. I threw it together on an insane deadline, and there were plenty of things that were not up to snuff, but it worked. I got plenty of help, but it was mostly me. Now it sits all disassembled and useless because nobody wanted to pay for the next step, and I'm waayyy in the hole... Don't let that happen. Morons will screw you without even realizing they're doing it. Because they're morons... It's like living with heroin addicts.

Anyway...

Roll with what you've got, but always be looking forward to how you're going to improve it. We already know there's a thing that needs doing, and it's kind of a big deal. Both in need, and what it'll take to do. That's all I'm saying. Keep kicking ass!

See? Your proposal is already out of date! It's a lot harder to throw in a second one than it is to just get it all on the first go 'round.
 

TaoOfSatoshi

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NO MIDDLE MEN! THERE WILL BE NONE! NO! The one thing crypoto excells at doing, and what has been done for 8.5 years now? Injected middle men into the process where we love to brag that middle men can be skipped. Adding in the persecution, manipulation, fees... The whole point is to NOT have that! Especially in my line of business! We're being targeted every day, some of us are being murdered and it's not even in the news because the media is complicit. The only reason I'm alive is because I have a reputation due to previous failed attempts.
Fair enough! :cool:
 

nmarley

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And here's the video I promised:


Note: It currently only detects payments which meet the threshold (which is why I changed it to zero-conf in the demo for demo purposes.) In the near future it will show pending tx's so that users are aware that their payments will go through once the # of confirmations is met.
 

TaoOfSatoshi

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nmarley

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Nice work, can't wait to give it a try. Looks like your proposal just got over the 10% threshold too :)
Thanks! Looks like it's a bit under now, as I've managed to get 90+ "no" votes within the past 24 hours or so. No idea why though, as I can't find any discussion against it...
 
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nmarley

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That's an excuse based on valid point.

Compare apples with apples. Yes. We already know the dynamic for CCs isn't the same as for Crypto. But then you build a bridge too far.

There's a reason coinbase doesn't do what you're doing.

Set up coinbase payments and see how that works.

When payment is detected, then automagically push the button.

Use coinbase's system.

You don't push the button. It pushes the button for you.

When you click "pay with coinbase" an overlay comes up on the screen, with QR, etc. When it realizes that the payment has been sent, poof, order complete.

The Fintech Paradigm has adapted to this, because this is best.

I'm not saying your plugin sucks. Don't take it that way.

I'm saying that coinbase didn't use this valid point as an excuse. They found what works EVEN BETTER and did that.

Call it a future update. You're working hard man. I'm not coming down on you... I'm saying that what works for CCs isn't what works for Crypto. You've already pointed that out and we agree. I'm voting for your proposal as soon as my MN migration is complete... It's kind of a job... ;-) My only major complaint with the proposal is that you're not asking for anywhere near enough money.

It's not that the paradigm is different. It's what you've done about it, or failed to do about it, that is wrong. See coinbase's example for how it's done right.

Why not be every bit as slick and perfect as that when you already did 98% of the work? To get it wrong at the last second?

The easiest way to see how coinbase does it, is to buy an amazon gift card with egifter.com - it automagically completes the transaction. I string together tx triggered events across multiple platforms like this.

Go to amazon.com and place my order all the way up to the payment part where you can put in a gift card code.

I open a new tab and go to egifter.com, where I buy an amazon.com gift card, and select pay with bitcoin. The coinbase overlay appears with the address and amount and the 15 minute countdown.

I open another tab... Go to shapeshift.io. I select dash to btc. I put in the amount of BTC I want, which I copy/pasted from the coinbase overlay on egifter's site. I also use that address for the payout address on shapeshift.io. I submit. shapeshift.io tells me what DASH address I need to send how much DASH to.

I open my DASH core wallet, and send from darksent balance to that address. Don't use IX, because shapeshift.io doesn't support it and WILL IGNORE THE PAYMENT. Shapeshift.io then instantly shows that it received the payment, and is awaiting trade. This usually takes less than 5 minutes, which is good, becuase the countdown on egifter has been rolling this whole time. As soon as the trade occurs, they send out the BTC to the egifter/coinbase address, and that automatically happens. Now all I ahve to do is copy/paste my amazon code into the coupon code section, and check out. A few days alter my crap shows up.

It's a big chain reaction without pushing buttons for any of the crypto part. All of these sites detect the tx and then just do it. No button pushing. That's how it's done.

Shapeshift.io has that shameful lack of IX followed by the even worse problem of ignoting an IX TX even after it hits the blockchain!

Now, even among crypto and tech savvy people, who the hell does that other than me? Do you really expect me to tell my customers to do that? They can barely type in their CC numbers, and often just email it! or take a picture of the card and email it! OMG, effing amazing stupidity and dangerous...

This is why I don't accept BTC, either... It's absurd. Also, the fact that I have to use a middle man, like coinbase, who can impose restrictions. I partly understand. coinbase currently implements Obama's sick lie of "Operation Choke Point." Fraudulently declaring all gun-related sales as "high risk" when in reality,t here is no such thing as a transaction that is lower risk. And where is the risk with crypto, anyway? There is none! That's one of crypto's major selling points. But coinbase would get leaned on if they didn't go along with it, so they persecute all non-democrat business as they are ordered by the current regime.

I can exchange it if I want to. Which I don't. The exchange doesn't need to know what my business is. They can't find out if I don't tell them. They can't persecute me unless they do it by name without even the bullshit excuse of going along with an evil regime that's persecuting those it disagrees with using lies and slander with no basis in reality. I can exchange somewhere else to protest their collusion with evil. I can do whatever the hell I want, dammit! It's DASH, bitches!

Whether it be IX or not, you have to detect the TX. IX isn't so important online as in face-to-face TXs. But, at least don't get it as horribly wrong as shapeshift.io does and ignore it altogether just because it's IX!
It pretty much does what you described, except for the automagically pushes the button part. It does detect the TX and automagically updates the UI. It works fine with IX too. Layovers are harder **for me**, because I'm honestly not a front-end guy. I might be able to do that, but at this point I don't know how much effort that would take.

Did you see my latest video?
 

camosoul

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Sexy!

No votes are likely a result of my involvement in this discussion. There are certain members of the community and core team who are exceptionally juvenile and will crap on it simply because I offered my business as a guinea pig and had something to say...
 

nmarley

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No votes are likely a result of my involvement in this discussion. There are certain members of the community and core team who are exceptionally juvenile and will crap on it simply because I offered my business as a guinea pig and had something to say...
Honestly? Wow. I really hope the community is more mature than that.

I just can't see why someone would think this is a bad idea for Dash in any way.
 

alex-ru

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Honestly? Wow. I really hope the community is more mature than that.

I just can't see why someone would think this is a bad idea for Dash in any way.
I guess they are voting against price, not the idea in general...
 

Sub-Ether

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Mar 31, 2014
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Honestly? Wow. I really hope the community is more mature than that.

I just can't see why someone would think this is a bad idea for Dash in any way.
Its a great idea, more likely in the recent market dash, 90,000 Dash were bought for manipulation for this exact purpose of throwing the vote and manipulating the market direction. Thats not many bitcoins when you consider 1 billion dollars? has been invested in and around bitcoin and crypto projects generally, and pretty much none has been invested into Dash.
Ask yourself what would you do if you had put 100 million into a competing coin (and hedge funds)and it isn't quite working out as hoped for?
 

camosoul

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I guess they are voting against price, not the idea in general...
Lols, he's already made it brutally, unfairly cheap to himself... If that's what it is, that MN operator needs a good kick in the crotch, and I have a damn good idea who it is, too.
 

camosoul

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Anyway, hows progress? Want to test it out on my crappy website yet?
 

nmarley

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Anyway, hows progress? Want to test it out on my crappy website yet?
Progress is pretty good so far! Doing a lot of final testing, flushing out bugs, finishing documentation and getting ready for release.

It's ready for beta testing! Will contact you via PM for details.