Dash needs to implement Shadowcash technology and truly be anonymous.

[GrandMasterDash]

It was regulation that pushed people to crypto in the first place... what's the point of a crypto that is 100% compliant to regulators? What battle are we going to win by being a slave to government whims? You think we can be both law abiding and sticking it to them at the same time?

 

[demo]

It's not about whether I or merchants want compliance. It's about what may be *required by law* for businesses that are thinking about potentially accepting Dash. This is for people who would not otherwise accept Dash, to give them a way to accept it. Nobody enjoys complying with regulations but I am not going to expect Walmarts and Amazons to decide to allow payments by Dash without thinking about it.

@TroyDASH, you serve only the *whatever is required by law* cause. It is not about what may be *required by law*. It is mainly about whether the oligarchy is capable to catch you or not if you break their law. Why do you care if something is required by law or if it is not ??? What a freedom advocate really cares is *whether their law can be applied or not*.

The struggle is there. Let the oligarchy decide whatever law they want, let the slaves blindly obey to *whatever is required by law*, and let the freedom fighters fight for *whatever is required by law not to be able to be applied*. Let the freedom fighters fight so that the oligarchy which is trying to apply the law not to be able to punish someone who breaks the law.

@TroyDASH, you do not seem to serve this last cause. @TroyDASH, you seem to be part of the slaves who obey to the law that is decided by the oligarchy, slaves who blindly obey even when there is no possibility of punishment. @TroyDASH, you do not seem to be part of the freedom advocates or the freedom fighters.

 

[TroyDASH]

@TroyDASH, you serve only the *whatever is required by law* cause. It is not about what may be *required by law*. It is mainly about whether the oligarchy is capable to catch you or not if you break their law. Why do you care if something is required by law or if it is not ??? What a freedom advocate really cares is *whether their law can be applied or not*.

The struggle is there. Let the oligarchy decide whatever law they want, let the slaves blindly obey to *whatever is required by law*, and let the freedom fighters fight for *whatever is required by law not to be able to be applied*. Let the freedom fighters fight so that the oligarchy which is trying to apply the law not to be able to punish someone who breaks the law.

@TroyDASH, you do not seem to serve this last cause. @TroyDASH, you seem to be part of the slaves who obey to the law that is decided by the oligarchy, slaves who blindly obey even when there is no possibility of punishment. @TroyDASH, you do not seem to be part of the freedom advocates or the freedom fighters.

It's not about what I want. It's about the reality that merchants won't integrate Dash if they can't be confident that they are in compliance, and without this piece, Dash has a low ceiling of potential market penetration. Neither of you have even countered this point yet, you just keep going on about how I should be a soldier in your stick-it-to-the-government movement. If you don't like it, then the place to go rallying people to change that reality is somewhere else, not here. What I'm interested in here is a digital currency where people can decide to be private if they want to, and where businesses will accept it as payment. You know, accepting it as payment for things. The thing that makes the currency valuable...

 

[demo]

It's not about what I want. It's about the reality that merchants won't integrate Dash if they can't be confident that they are in compliance, and without this piece, Dash has a low ceiling of potential market penetration.

The merchants are always in compliance with the most powerfull.

If dash can convince the merchants that they can do their trade without bothering whether the trade is illegal or not (which means they are free to do their trade without being in danger to be arrested by the central government in case the trade is illegal) then the merchants will definitely adopt dash.

 

[crowning]

...what's the point of a crypto that is 100% compliant to regulators? What battle are we going to win by being a slave to government whims?

I can repeat this until your nose bleeds: with Dash I have the choice to be compliant or to be anonymous, whatever suits the task at hand best.

Isn't that great?

 

[demo]

I can repeat this until your nose bleeds: with Dash I have the choice to be compliant or to be anonymous, whatever suits the task at hand best.

Anonymous in dash? Is this a joke? How can you be anonymous when the majority of the masternodes is not?

I think you may wanted to say: "with Dash I wish I had the choice to be compliant or to be anonymous, whatever suits the task at hand best."

 

[TroyDASH]

The merchants are always in compliance with the most powerfull.

If dash can convince the merchants that they can do their trade without bothering whether the trade is illegal or not (which means they are free to do their trade without being in danger to be arrested by the central government in case the trade is illegal) then the merchants will definitely adopt dash.

Good luck with convincing them of that
Of course, there will always be some people who will accept Dash regardless, and different merchants have different needs in terms of just how far they want to go to ensure compliance. It's good when everybody has options

 

[demo]

Good luck with convincing them of that

Step by step.

Thanks to the poll history let me remind you @TroyDASH, that your wish is that all masternodes should run on public IPs .

Before convincing the merchants, I have first to convince YOU, I have to convince the majority of the masternodes to vote an appropriate proposal in the budget, so that some of them could become anonymous.

 

[TroyDASH]

Step by step.

Thanks to the poll history let me remind you @TroyDASH, that your wish is that all masternodes should be eponymoys.

Before convincing the merchants, I have first to convince you, to convince the masternodes to become anonymous.

Side note: I voted that way because I didn't agree with "compelling" the team to do anything. I wouldn't be opposed to a private option to be made available to the MNs if it is technically feasible

 

[demo]

I wouldn't be opposed to a private option to be made available to the MNs if it is technically feasible

I have a bet with @UdjinM6

If he cannot find a logical error in my anonymity proposal v0.2, then he owes me 0.01 dash.

@UdjinM6 neither revealed the logical error nor gave me 0.01 dash yet, so probably after almost 7 months he is still looking for the error .

 

[UdjinM6]

I have a bet with @UdjinM6

If he cannot find a logical error in my anonymity proposal v0.2, then he owes me 0.01 dash.

@UdjinM6 neither revealed the logical error nor gave me 0.01 dash yet, so probably after almost 7 months he is still looking for the error .

The bet is set when two parties agree on something they would be betting on. I didn't agree to set this bet in the first place so you can wait as long as you wish.
Splitting MNs over different net protocols is not a good idea and will break network, we are actually moving towards ipv4-only https://github.com/dashpay/dash/pull/1065 to make network more robust until a better default solution is found/implemented.
And btw this is completely off topic in current thread.

 

[demo]

Splitting MNs over different net protocols is not a good idea and will break network.

Is this an argument? Your quote seems closer to a divine quote.

Why splitting MNs over different net protocols is not a good idea? And why it will break the network?

There are layer in the OSI model. The application layer differs to the network layer. There are many applications capable to run on top of different network protocols. Why not dash?

Additionaly anonymity mainly resides in the routing protocol and not in the IP addressing. So if you design a smart routing protocol for dash, you can provide a good level of anonymity even you stick in IP4.

 

[UdjinM6]

Is this an argument? Your quote seems closer to a divine quote.
Why splitting MNs over different net protocols is not a good idea? And why it will break the network?
There are layer in the OSI model. The application layer differs to the network layer. There are many applications capable to run on top of different network protocols. Why not dash?

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/masternode-winners-consensus-issue.11596/
Current implementation ties network and application layers because of the way MNs are registered on network. Using different protocols makes this connection unverifiable for some nodes because nodes become not reachable and this leads to network split (fork).

 

[demo]

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/masternode-winners-consensus-issue.11596/
Current implementation ties network and application layers because of the way MNs are registered on network.

This is a design deficiency that has to be solved somehow. Separate the application layer from the network layer is the first step for anonymity.
The masternodes who really care about anonymity should post a proposal in the budget asking for the network layer to be separated from the application layer.

 

[demo]

Using different protocols makes this connection unverifiable for some nodes because nodes become not reachable and this leads to network split (fork).

Should the verification-authentication-registration of the masternodes reside in the application layer or in the network layer? What suits best for the anonymity purposes? A network split is not catastrophic, as long as the network is able to reunite. This of course requires a rollback feature in the ledger, so the problem becomes more complex. All those issues should be addressed in the appropriate budget proposal, along with a bounty fee for the ones who are capable to theoritically solve the problem and for the ones who are capable to implement it.

All the above can be solved somehow, the only question that remains unanswer is:
"Is the current masternodes electorate capable to distinguish, judge and vote in favor of the correct technical solution and against the wrong technical solution? " If the answer to the above question is "No" then the only solution towards decentralization is to give to more people the voting power.

 

[demo]

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/masternode-winners-consensus-issue.11596/
Current implementation ties network and application layers because of the way MNs are registered on network. Using different protocols makes this connection unverifiable for some nodes because nodes become not reachable and this leads to network split (fork).

how tezos separates the layers.
the ledger is separated in three parts: the network layer, the consensus layer of the tree of blocks and the transaction layer.

https://youtu.be/B4a0cjrz5_U?t=843
https://youtu.be/pNerM72f0Pk?t=363

 

[IF 6 were 9]

The subjet of privatie of all money currency is an evidence like so basic that i guess we wont have to move mountains in the cloud the agree...
Nakamoto underestimate that aspect and all the personnel workin on the bitcoin.So i sold all of my bitcoin yesterday not only because of that but for so many reasons that i guess that is why you felt the need to Dash creation . I follow conversation about the privatie on shadow cash click the link there and saw Snowdon statement and the declaration of human rigths it moves me Blue
helmet philosophie we never shoot first.So Dash and lite and Shadow cash look interesting but always have to pass by bitcoin or shape shift to get hard cash or to trade one coin from another or to avoid fees from visa or USD exchange since i live in And really the focus must be on access of the currency and to move it to buy sell exchange and all that at low cost so anyway that said getting there is a complete other story and if i can suggest things to all is promotion you hide Dash cash on a usb key or on a currency card and in major city around the world you start a treasure hunt you know fix an average amount a hundred to a five hundreds of value and you make people start lookin for it like whit pokemon or wathever you may find fresh new tech 3D you film it put it on u tube or some where else promote the dash intensively while it s still cheap create professor Dash etc I wont go to far on heros like Captain Dash or Tony Stardash but you know you be generous get the world involve let s start the chase in Greece etc comment make some promoton 20% off on platform bitfinex poloniex for those who trade with Dash we switch five dash more for one bitcoin etci don't know all rhe specific access limits you face behind the curtain but that s just sugestions So i started mining dash on Eobot keep in touch and keep on thinkin about promotion aspect...thanks for all your efforts and keep it up and let the good vibe get a lot stronger

 

[lombardo2]

I can repeat this until your nose bleeds: with Dash I have the choice to be compliant or to be anonymous, whatever suits the task at hand best.

Isn't that great?

No it isn't.

It weakens the anonymity of the darksend transactions.

 

[IF 6 were 9]

The subjet of privatie of all money currency is an evidence like so basic that i guess we wont have to move mountains in the cloud the agree...
Nakamoto underestimate that aspect and all the personnel workin on the bitcoin.So i sold all of my bitcoin yesterday not only because of that but for so many reasons that i guess that is why you felt the need to Dash creation . I follow conversation about the privatie on shadow cash click the link there and saw Snowdon statement and the declaration of human rigths it moves me Blue
helmet philosophie we never shoot first.So Dash and lite and Shadow cash look interesting but always have to pass by bitcoin or shape shift to get hard cash or to trade one coin from another or to avoid fees from visa or USD exchange since i live in And really the focus must be on access of the currency and to move it to buy sell exchange and all that at low cost so anyway that said getting there is a complete other story and if i can suggest things to all is promotion you hide Dash cash on a usb key or on a currency card and in major city around the world you start a treasure hunt you know fix an average amount a hundred to a five hundreds of value and you make people start lookin for it like whit pokemon or wathever you may find fresh new tech 3D you film it put it on u tube or some where else promote the dash intensively while it s still cheap create professor Dash etc I wont go to far on heros like Captain Dash or Tony Stardash but you know you be generous get the world involve let s start the chase in Greece etc comment make some promoton 20% off on platform bitfinex poloniex for those who trade with Dash we switch five dash more for one bitcoin etci don't know all rhe specific access limits you face behind the curtain but that s just sugestions So i started mining dash on Eobot keep in touch and keep on thinkin about promotion aspect...thanks for all your efforts and keep it up and let the good vibe get a lot stronger

No it isn't.

It weakens the anonymity of the darksend transactions.

you

No it isn't.

It weakens the anonymity of the darksend transactions.

 

[IF 6 were 9]

Sado-mazo noze bleeder

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Identity on the blockchain is like doing a big puzzle.. the more they fill in it, the better the picture looks and the easier it becomes to complete. These Big Data companies can make obscure connections from multiple sources that many people can not imagine... where one seemingly unrelated event is matched against another.. or, for example, that a subset of possible identities is guessed and gradually weighed and eliminated until they end up completing the picture. This is why I say that privacy in dash is intentionally being eroded.. dash core don't have to do anything, it will just simply erode until it's worthless.

Yes, there is Private Send but it is neither fast, intuitive or automatic... without automatic privacy, people will invariably be lazy and thus compromising the identity of the people they do business with going forward.. gradually filling in that puzzle.

Look at the new proposals where now Coinfirm is their new "compliance partner"... haha, that suddenly changed because only last month they were playing it down as a casual "accidental" meetup. Aaaah, it's like a new romance, going forward, attending the same conferences together, how sweet.

Dash is now nothing more than a gentleman's club, just like bitshares. The PoS hasn't decentralized... it just looks like that... most of the voting for these proposals is coming from a small club where individual MNOs are holding many tens of MNs.. colluding and doing as they please regardless. This is self evident, for if you look at the poll results of this thread you will see the opposite to what is actually happening.

 

[IF 6 were 9]

Strip club beaver club nation of activist crypto club grand master dash guru of club Club sandwich there is club everywhere me
I don't know the answer to all that but like Woody Allen
Said :"I would never want to be member in club that wants me
In has a member." What i can tell you about what i understand is that when i read Mike Hearn bitcoin XT he mention the effect of Nakamoto leaving bitcoin core was the begginig of a real lack of vision for the hole project and it was an aspect of the slow but shurly decadance of Le bitcoin so me i am new at dash and having a club who have vision and open and explain theyre point of view like they did i have never heard of shadow cash before i read Tonga or the other person sorry i am bad with names and i click the link there went to look at what shadow have to offer and i went back to dash and thinking how can shadow be so secret if i have to shift shape it or transfer it into bitcoin to make it be more user friendly so i have no anawer to that but cannot at least fell the wirdeness of the secret they made there choices they split and what can i do buy and sell catch the train or stay at the station what i understand is there is not enough Dash user to make it anonymus as it should so i would focus more on the promotion then the system it is miricale for me to have access to all that amazing world of crypto and i don't wanna have these details ruin my experience u know life s a bitch and then u die ...go to shadow i am shure u will have other issue so Mozart requiem was a master piece good for us he was not into finance technology and all the rest Dash is the third crypto in value bitcoin zcash and dash so lets focus on makin it growing while were still alive i am for the private life but like the old blues player say :"At the moment you step out your front door and go out trouble is there waitin for you and they sign trouble trouble where did all my money go...

 

[IF 6 were 9]

The other aspects are bitcoin facing the Segwit and side chain and super size me a chinese block and the vote of miners bitcoin at the cross road the IRS at coinbaseCharlie "shorty"Shrem just out a jail it is a good timing for Dash to take some investers and Dash supporters .
And Mike Hearn said :"The system is about to hit an arrificial limit ...For the first time investors have no obvious way to get a clear picture of what Bitcoin core is doing are being band with misleading non sense ..."
So let's avoid that trap that ruin so many project i guess the Dash core people must have a big ego and big ego is made for business you dont like attitude you dont like ego maniacs well go in a hashram
Meditated put on your skirt and go cry to your mama not on me you you want anonymity go muslim and hide your face you know you want something you cannot have so get over it and be more positive in a very competitive world were it s allright but the name is passion and warfare economik war world a wall street not Berlin wall or a mexican ok enjoy the night and rock on mega tron grand master dash what's that anyway

 

[demo]

<poll history>
Do you think Dash fungibility / anonymity is a critical feature?
Yes 33 vote(s) 91.7%

• ScioMind
• Lord Of The Internet
• Aswan
• TaoOfSatoshi
• bandidorl
• Cofresí
• BolehVPN
• Dunedoo
• BenTucker
• noobtrader
• hammetje
• GrandMasterDash
• Defacto
• Comodore
• chenriquelira
• xdashguy
• med4u
• IronVape
• 100-yard
• demo
• halso
• freshdopamine
• Dworf
• ec1warc1
• Bluefox
• MichaelTzu
• Zack
• johnnydash
• lombardo2
• Jesse
• revelations86
• RavenDothKnow
• IF 6 were 9

No 3 vote(s) 8.3%

• aleix
• JGCMiner
• rustycase

Abstain 5,836 -36 = 5800
</poll history>

 

[GrandMasterDash]

My offer still stands.. if someone wants to submit this as a formal proposal, I'll reimburse the 5 dash.

 

[demo]

My offer still stands.. if someone wants to submit this as a formal proposal, I'll reimburse the 5 dash.

Lets create the proposal the etherpad way.

https://github.com/ether/etherpad-lite/wiki/Sites-that-run-Etherpad-Lite

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Lets create the proposal the etherpad way.

https://github.com/ether/etherpad-lite/wiki/Sites-that-run-Etherpad-Lite

..or make public a google doc?

 

[demo]

..or make public a google doc?

I created a pad for starting there, and then we can pass to a google doc.

https://pad.riseup.net/p/rEEtwBvGNiX4

 

[demo]

My offer still stands.. if someone wants to submit this as a formal proposal, I'll reimburse the 5 dash.

Are you asking the proposal to mention the technical solution? Or do you want the proposal just to define a bounty that it will be given to the one who will manage to give the technical solution? I think this last is much better because a good amount of dash will motivate serious proposals.

Lets propose an amount, and if the masternodes vote this amount lets propose again a greater amount, and until the masternodes disapprove the final proposal. So the voted-up proposal just before the final disapproved proposal will be the defined bounty that it will be given to the one who will manage to propose a correct technical solution to the anonymity problem.

All alternative technical solutions that will appear after the bounty is defined, they can be added as proposals into the budget and the one which will manage to get the more yes votes from the masternodes he will win the bounty amount.
Then he will give back to @GrandMasterDash the 5 dash he lost (according to the above protocol @GrandMasterDash will lose 5 dash in the final disapproved bounty proposal ).

What do you think about this? The procedure followed in this proposal (although implemented in a cumbersome way) is isomorphic to the alternative budget system, as long as it is similarly capable to define a bounty to be given for a specific job.

Can you explain the above in formal english, as long as I am not good in writting proposals?
Write whatever you want here.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Are you asking the proposal to mention the technical solution? Or do you want the proposal just to define a bounty that it will be given to the one who will manage to give the technical solution? I think this last is much better because a good amount of dash will motivate serious proposals.

Lets propose an amount, and if the masternodes vote this amount lets propose again a greater amount, and until the masternodes disapprove the final proposal. So the voted-up proposal just before the final disapproved proposal will be the defined bounty that it will be given to the one who will manage to propose a correct technical solution to the anonymity problem.

All alternative technical solutions that will appear after the bounty is defined, they can be added as proposals into the budget and the one which will manage to get the more yes votes from the masternodes he will win the bounty amount.
Then he will give back to @GrandMasterDash the 5 dash he lost (according to the above protocol @GrandMasterDash will lose 5 dash in the final disapproved bounty proposal ).

What do you think about this? The procedure followed in this proposal (although implemented in a cumbersome way) is isomorphic to the alternative budget system, as long as it is similarly capable to define a bounty to be given for a specific job.

Can you explain the above in formal english, as long as I am not good in writting proposals?
Write whatever you want here.

Here's my draft proposal...

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/privacy-first-vs-transparency-first.12057/