Darkcoin / ShadowCash merger

crowning

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May 29, 2014
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Alpha Centauri Bc
Let me be the first to write down my thoughts in random order:

  • more DRK -> inflation -> do we lose some money?
  • how much power will the joining development-team have?
  • what will the general public think about a currency which creates additional coins at will?
  • when do we buy coblee and gmaxwell?
 
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jpr

Active Member
May 11, 2014
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Minting new coins? Are we printing now? What the fuck I am asking? I do not like this idea at all.
This smells really bad.
 
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Light

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Jun 4, 2014
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Evan is a smart guy but to be honest I am surprised. It is not a bad idea to invite more dev to the team and I understand that Evan alone cannot afford to pay for them. BUT 'printing' money to pay for it? That's a very bad bad idea. We have to be very careful about the precedent. If we agree to this, "Dark FED" news might be all over the media.
 
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David

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Jun 21, 2014
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This is beyond preposterous for two reasons:

a) You're going to dilute my DRK holdings to merge us with some shitcoin nobody has ever heard of?

b) You have the power to do so? Isn't crypto all about decentralization and math-based consensus to a (relatively) immutable basic protocol? I realize we are still in the development stages of DRK and consequently Evan has an unusual amount of power (e.g. enforcement), but this is a real reach. One person creating more coins in direct contravention of the basic protocol? If Evan can create more coins any time he wishes, how is he any different than the Federal Reserve?

c) This *WILL* fork DRK. Guaranteed. Look at the massive amount of opposition so far...I haven't counted but it looks about 2:1 against. Even if you reverse those numbers, you will have a significant number of DRK owners who *WILL* fork DRK into another coin. And then what do you have? The exact brain-drain you were hoping to avoid, plus market ambiguity, plus a massive loss of investor confidence.

P.S. Even with the reward structure of future blocks being altered to prevent inflation, the creation of a superblock by the DRK devs *after implementation* will rock our coin onto its heels. If one person (Evan) can create more DRK for a good reason, what's to prevent him from creating more DRK for a bad reason (at some point down the road)?

I have been one of DRK's biggest supporters, and everybody here knows this. But hearing that the dev team is even considering something like this makes me almost want to sell my coins. It's that bad of an idea.
 
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Propulsion

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Feb 26, 2014
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Minting new coins? Are we printing now? What the fuck I am asking? I do not like this idea at all.
This smells really bad.
This is beyond preposterous for two reasons:

a) You're going to dilute my DRK holdings to merge us with some shitcoin nobody has ever heard of?

b) You have the power to do so? Isn't crypto all about decentralization and math-based consensus to a (relatively) immutable basic protocol? I realize we are still in the development stages of DRK and consequently Evan has an unusual amount of power (e.g. enforcement), but this is a real reach. One person creating more coins in direct contravention of the basic protocol? If Evan can create more coins any time he wishes, how is he any different than the Federal Reserve?
I agree. This proposal came as a complete blindside. You can not just create a new block that creates new coins on a whim affecting the coin supply. It the max supply is 3k and the merger is .5k it would have to be taken out of the existing coin supply not increased to 3.5k.

Now I know nothing of the Shadowncoin currency at all. I'll post once I understand it.
 
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spatula

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Oct 31, 2014
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This is beyond preposterous for two reasons:

a) You're going to dilute my DRK holdings to merge us with some shitcoin nobody has ever heard of?

b) You have the power to do so? Isn't crypto all about decentralization and math-based consensus to a (relatively) immutable basic protocol? I realize we are still in the development stages of DRK and consequently Evan has an unusual amount of power (e.g. enforcement), but this is a real reach. One person creating more coins in direct contravention of the basic protocol? If Evan can create more coins any time he wishes, how is he any different than the Federal Reserve?

While I personally kind of like the idea (but not sold 100%) I think that you are wrong on your part b) assumptions. Evan does not have the authority to make a change to the block reward without some kind of a fork that requires everyone to update to be on the same chain. You or I could release an update that changes the block reward, and if everyone started using it, it would be the primary chain. In this regard, Evan has no additional authority as a developer than any other cyrptocurrency developer.
 
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Light

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Jun 4, 2014
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Evan says: "In the long term, Darkcoin’s distribution curve will be slightly reduced so we release exactly the same amount of coins in the long term. This will also counteract the effects of expanding the Darkcoin supply. In the long term this is a non-inflationary event".

I have the following problems with this justification:

1. Instantly expanding money supply will devaluate my Darkcoin holdings in the short run because we don't have any guarantee that Shadowcoin devs will not dump their Darkcoins after 90 days of grace period. That's why the idea that the future total money supply will be left unchanged is irrelevant. But i can live with that if we are getting really great new dev team members.
2. I see this as a PR disaster for Darkcoin and it is gonna be even worst than the instamine issue that is still circulating around. now this point is hard to digest because there is no way of going back once we agree to this. Just like instamine, it is gonna haunt us for months and years perhaps.
3. We are creating a horrible precedent and it raises the question of the "red line". Will there be more (I am trying to refrain from using "printing money") similar decision in the future? Why and why not? etc
 

qwizzie

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Aug 6, 2014
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guys, this is only the discussion phase, nothing will happen if the community is against it. Lets just keep an open mind and
discuss it properly.

We need more info about ShadowCoin's Development team, what exactly are theirs kills ? how many of them are there ?
We need more info about the technology that Darkcoin can profit from
We definetely need some ''set in stone'' agreements about specifics of this merger if its taking place
(and yes, its a big if)
 

eduffield

Core Developer
Mar 9, 2014
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It's a shame the ShadowCash merger came out, but I'm going to go ahead and call it off completely. If we got approval from the ShadowCash team, the plan was to bring this to the community. I was never intending to act unilaterally to merge the two coins. However, it appears that a majority of the community is against this idea, so we'll find other ways to acquire talent. Thanks for your input everyone.
 

Light

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Jun 4, 2014
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I think we need to start a new discussion about our strategy of recruiting new and additional talent for the Darkcoin team. If and most probably we will need additional fund, I am willing to donate for the cause.
 

2masternodes

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Oct 22, 2014
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I actually really like the idea, but am against it on principle. Printing more money out of nowhere is exactly what I think cyrptocurencies should avoid.

That being said I'm not completely apposed. This increases developers and reduces competition at risk of slight dilution
 
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Sub-Ether

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Mar 31, 2014
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Evan, you have done a ground breaking job from the start and have a small but strong team that works well together, do you really need someone elses help to complete the work, personally I feel you can do this by yourself(with our help)-too many cooks spoil the broth kind of thing. creating a precedent by super block exchanges or whatever sounds like a bad idea and there may be a question of trust with the Dev's, we trust only you and that in the cryptocommunity is an important thing indeed.
Thanks for the journey.
My 2 cents.
 

fernando

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We're opening the foundation for memberships in a few days. Paying talent is the key thing because Evan can't do all the coding. Any ideas are welcome. Donations and fees also :)
 

Propulsion

The buck stops here.
Feb 26, 2014
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Masternodes could have an additional config flag which would allow donations to be sent to the darkcoin foundation.

Something like this:
Bash:
masternode=1
masternodedonation=10
With 10 being 10% to a hard coded Darkcoin Foundation address. So if your MN received a payment of 1 darkcoin you would receive 0.90 dark instead.

Edit: It would also have to be defaulted to 0. You can not force people to donate.
 
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Stealth923

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Mar 9, 2014
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Masternodes could have an additional config flag which would allow donations to be sent to the darkcoin foundation.

Something like this:
Bash:
masternode=1
masternodedonation=10
With 10 being 10% to a hard coded Darkcoin Foundation address. So if your MN received a payment of 1 darkcoin you would receive 0.90 dark instead.

Edit: It would also have to be defaulted to 0. You can not force people to donate.
Im totally in for this idea - happy to donate 50% as I said previously - now is not the time to be greedy. Donate now and watch it pay you back 10 fold later!
 
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Light

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I remember back in the days, for one particular project my company was struggling to find top notch IT talents for a reasonable price. We had some American and European IT professionals and they were fine but also expensive. We were advised to work with an India based Talent Acquisition firm and they did find us in Bangalore, India what we were looking for a very reasonable price. So, we shouldn't restrict our scope when searching for talent.

EDIT: and I support Propulsions' Prosperous Proposition
 

TaoOfSatoshi

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Jul 15, 2014
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I remember back in the days, for one particular project my company was struggling to find top notch IT talents for a reasonable price. We had some American and European IT professionals and they were fine but also expensive. We were advised to work with an India based Talent Acquisition firm and they did find us in Bangalore, India what we were looking for a very reasonable price. So, we shouldn't restrict our scope when searching for talent.

EDIT: and I support Propulsions' Prosperous Proposition
This is a great idea. There are a LOT of talented people over there....Do you remember the agency?
 

Light

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Jun 4, 2014
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This is a great idea. There are a LOT of talented people over there....Do you remember the agency?
Yes, We worked with Manpower Group (manpower.co.in) and we had to pay fees as soon as we signed the contract with the new recruit. But it probably wouldn't be a good idea for us to work with a middle man. Alternatively, we could post an exact job description at monsterindia.com and have the qualified candidates to send us their CVs and then we could shortlist, skype interview them and discuss the details.


Edit: This doesn't even have to be full time job. Many of them would be happy to work part time from home. There is a time zone advantage as well. When Evan wakes up at 9am- 10am in US, it would be 7pm - 8pm in India and the new recruit would be back at his home from work and work with Evan.

We could also outsource UI, mobile wallet etc tasks to them as well.
 
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donho

Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Apr 16, 2014
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Masternodes could have an additional config flag which would allow donations to be sent to the darkcoin foundation.

Something like this:
Bash:
masternode=1
masternodedonation=10
With 10 being 10% to a hard coded Darkcoin Foundation address. So if your MN received a payment of 1 darkcoin you would receive 0.90 dark instead.

Edit: It would also have to be defaulted to 0. You can not force people to donate.
+1 Would donate
 

raze

King of the Morlocks
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Mar 9, 2014
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Your opening the foundation? Does this mean that members can approach and ask if they can be on the foundation?
It will be a similar setup to the Bitcoin Foundation. You pay for Annual, Lifetime, and Industry memberships allowing you to vote in elections, meet-ups with the board of directors, etc.
 

thelonecrouton

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Foundation Member
Apr 15, 2014
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Looking forward to hearing more details about The Foundation!

And liking the idea of hiring more devs to lighten Evan's load. India was mentioned... do they speak C++ in China too... ;)

Or Korea. Koreans are hardcore like you wouldn't believe if you've never been completely outworked by one. Tough bastards. :)

Russians often have talent, great theorists but crap engineers, and the drinking... nearly as bad as the Finns and far worse than the Irish.

OK I think I've offended just about everyone!
 
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flare

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May 18, 2014
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eduffield It would also be helpful if you would provide a listing of exactly what kinds of Devs you require for specific projects (I'm talking a comprehensive list).

Is vertoe's list in the Software Devs thread representative of your needs as well?
The list was compiled with our feedback, is still accurate and representative of our needs :)