Welcome to the Dash Forum!

Please sign up to discuss the most innovative cryptocurrency!

DASH mining in any capacity is officially dead

Discussion in 'Mining' started by Checkerama, Nov 18, 2017.

?

Do you see current DASH algorithm as unsustainable in terms of scalability?

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    46.2%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    53.8%
  1. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    If you voted for that aeroplane advertising bullshit to pass, I would be calling you an idiot. If you didn't, congratulations - you're not an idiot.

    And if you ACTUALLY ended up with 1000 pieces of nothing (which you don't btw, idk how many times I have to say it would take a dip then rise again because liquidity in the market would increase its demand), that would be a surprise to both me and you. I believe my proposition would see to it that DASH doesnt remain a hedger for bitcoin because of small investors (end users, who btw generate far more liquidity than MNOs ever will) being too scared to join the network in fear that the MNOs would dump half of the supply at any moments notice, and instead begin to compete with it for the position it deserves as the #1 transactional digital coin network.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    I'm interested in hearing this. Tell me about this set-up you have and the ACTUAL investment you make into it so I can make a more realistic comparison for analysis sake.

    Also, it's not an investment if you don't spend, and if I changed my USD to EUR its not an investment into euros either - so stop calling 1000 DASH lock an investment.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Dandy

    Dandy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    88
    When you buy shares of a company, is that not an investment?
    With the Dash governing system, it is a lot like a company.

    The machine for a masternode cost me about 1200€, I think. Gigabit network will probably be about 70€ a month.
    I don't pretend that cost of the masternode is comparable to the cost of the miners for the ROI purposes, at least not right now. In the future, there are plans to make special hardware for the MNs, but that's still far off.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    It's a fair point, but I think its more comparable to Forex than it is a stock... for obvious reasons.

    People believe other people will adapt a currency more, thus increasing its strength (as any forex-minded individual would imagine) and profitability. It's like Zimbabwe vs USD... USD went up as soon as Zimbabwe started using that to deal with their transactions (beats buying an apple for 3 million of whatever their currency is), thus this makes it more of a gamble than an investment. You believe people will adopt more DASH, thus you buy more DASH. Same with bitcoin (or even more so since half of their liquidity isnt being held up by less than 4000 people.)

    It's also like "investing" in a bank. Banks offer no real service other than to hold someones value (any extraneous belief that they do is misconstrued as a unique service that would otherwise be implemented elsewhere without their existence, like loans and credit, which is why theyre all crying now that digital currencies exist). So investing in a bank is also a gamble - you "invest" because you think the bank has a plan to garner more people to store more of their cash in there.

    Do you own any other services? VPN possibly?
     
    #94 Checkerama, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Dandy

    Dandy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    88
    I don't host any other services at the moment. I could set up a VPN at my router, but I don't have the use for it at the moment.
    I bring up an FTP server from time to time, when I need it for work.
     
  6. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Well I do appreciate the information and the debate, I think the knowledge here has made my tools a little sharper. Thanks for being a good MNO sport.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    952
    Trophy Points:
    183
    @Checkerama I corrected you about decentralization. You didn't like it and responded by complaining about the inequality between MNOs and miners. Tbh, you seem more preoccupied with "fairness" and USD prices.

    Dash is an economic model. Monero is an economic model. All coins are unique economic models; economic policies enacted in code. You don't like dash, doesn't fit your worldview about economics, I'm fine with that, you are free to move on. But imo, many cryptos can't scale (unless they are intentionally targeting a niche).

    But I'll give you this. You might ultimately be right, that dash's economic model will fail - who knows? - but from where I am standing (with absolutely nothing to do with USD value), dash has a chance of fulfilling it's goal.

    And btw, you're free to call me an idiot because I voted yes for the aerosports project and I'm happy with that decision.

    And yes, 1000 dash is an investment. An investment of my time to make "bullshit decisions" about aeroplanes.
     
  8. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Well shit at least you gave me something - also, I countered your position about it being decentralized. I'm preoccupied with the future of DASH as its vision intends, nothing more. If I made negative profits from mining but still got a decent amount of DASH, I would make that investment. Currently though, it would seem that any equivalence in hashrate power would never make mining profitable at any point in time (doesnt matter the equipment and it doesnt matter the DASH price unless it somehow beat bitcoin fourfold), thus the MNO shpeal I gave after (it was also intended to showcase an example where DASH's "decentralization" would fail. It evolved into a discussion about fairness when Dandy decided to defend MNO "investment" positions, which he took like a good sport.)

    And no, 1000 DASH is not an investment. Please stop calling it an investment. I don't even call it an investment when I buy bitcoins. Its simply exchanging currency for another. You are not an investor because you bought into cryptocurrencies - you're a speculator. Investment is what you spend on your masternodes or in mining gear (and for the last time, locking in 1000 DASH is not SPENDING 1000 DASH)

    Currently, bitcoin is the only crypto that will scale. Sure its got its drama going on with the whole thing about hard forks and all that shit, but its got the community, its got the backing, the ease of access, the liquidity, the PROPER decentralization (because my mining power AND money will ACTUALLY give me power to change either network when it hard forks), AND the network hashrate to avoid potential DDOS. It also has a market - anywhere I can use DASH, I can also use Bitcoins, and more... FAR MORE. You should all be scared if it gets its shit together and starts scaling the blocks to provide for ease of transaction.

    Also to prove my point, tether news just broke out and people are hedging their cryptos into DASH again. Welcome to DASH, the hedger for all cryptocurrencies LOL.

    https://tether.to/tether-critical-announcement/
     
    #98 Checkerama, Nov 21, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  9. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    952
    Trophy Points:
    183
    Pretty much everything could be construed as "speculation". I don't care for the words you choose - investment, speculation ,who cares - but tbh, I want to call it an investment simply because I know it irritates you! :-D

    As for bitcoin. I'm sure it will always have it's disciples to the very end, but it will surely lose it's crown. Businesses that once accepted bitcoin are either dropping it completely (sticking with visa/mc), or switching to other cryptos. The magical "store of value" will be the only leg it can stand on.. until it breaks that leg. When a scalable crypto goes mainstream, the market depth will become a store of value, at which point, who needs bitcoin? (apart from a few diehards)

    More so. There's probably a lot of bitcoin sitting on exchanges these days because it's just too slow and expensive to move. It may be a stupid thing to do but I think it's real. Now imagine the nightmare when Coinbase gets hacked.

    RIP bitcoin.
     
  10. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    You're a funny guy I'll give you that :-D You don't even know the difference between investment and speculation. Then you wonder why I call MNOs idiots.

    If it loses its crown, it'll be to a hard fork and to another version of bitcoin. Coinbase has already gotten hacked - people panic sold, then other people bought the dip. Same thing happened with Bithumb, same thing happened with OKEx, same thing happened with GDAX... keep hedging your hopes though. At least the lack of liquidity keeps DASH under the radar for no one to care about hacking it.

    https://themerkle.com/coinbase-user...-negligence-company-claims-no-responsibility/
    http://bgr.com/2017/07/05/bitcoin-exchange-hack-bithumb/
    https://cointelegraph.com/news/chinese-bitcoin-exchange-okex-hacked-for-3-mln-police-not-interested

    But you've peaked my interest on these "other businesses" who have completely dropped bitcoin or any variation of it in favor of other cryptos. Mind naming one?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    952
    Trophy Points:
    183
    I know what difference other people put between investment and speculation, but it's not my definition. Again, you can call it what you like but in my world success is defined by outcome. You're either good at making money, or not, the proof is on the balance sheet.

    How about Dell computers, "[UPDATE] Due to low demand, Bitcoin is no longer available as a form of payment. Our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause. You can still complete your purchase through a number of alternative payment options such as PayPal, all major Credit Cards, and Dell Financial Services."
    https://blog.dell.com/en-us/we-re-now-accepting-bitcoin-on-dell-com/

    Hosting companies, for example, are seeing less bitcoin payments. Do you think people are willing to pay $5 - $10 fees on a $20 hosting package? Or how about yours.org that was originally bitcoin, then litecoin and now bitcoin cash.
     
  12. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    I thought you were going to give me an actual altcoin, not another variation of bitcoin. Bitcoin Cash IS a variation of Bitcoin.. or did you not get the memo they shared the same blockchain?

    Also thats exactly what im saying about bitcoin payments - be prepared when it gets its shit together and raises block size, which would decrease tx fees, which also explains why they move to BCC - already got its shit together, and it also explains the pump up in its price. Let me know when they decide DASH is better for them than a variation of bitcoin though.

    I'm not surprised about Dell dropping it completely - they have investors to answer to, and the last thing they need is to explain to them why their valuations dropped a certain percentage because they accepted bitcoins. Besides, no one holding a considerable amount of bitcoin is buying Dell - they're quite garbage :)

    My general rule of thumb for the world of crypto is that its bad for corporations, but corporations will be replaced by decentralized hubs (funded via ICOs) which provide the same service. So a corporation dropping bitcoin? Not surprised. They like their fiat.
     
    #102 Checkerama, Nov 21, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  13. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    @Checkerama you are right, but you are doing the same mistake I do. Just complaining.
    Lets stop complaining, and try a hard fork of Dash.
    Lets give voting rights to the miners and let them vote the numbers of difficulty.
    Lets give voting rights to whoever is staking, and allow him to decide for the budget proposals.
    And we will see if people will follow us, or the stupid MNOs.
    The real power in the crypto world, is having a strong community with tight bonds.
    Lets build one.
     
    #103 demo, Nov 21, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Yeah but if DASH hard forks its game over for the currency (governance is like its only good feature) - I either deal with the MNOs or move to Bitcoin... which I've already bought 20 S9's of.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Governace is a good concept, but Dash's governance really sucks.
    In order to build a community that have bonds, we have to fix governance.
    Good governance creates tight bonds among community.
    As long as MNO's remain stupid and full of spies , and they keep voting for bubbles, I think people will leave Dash and join our fork.

    The market is really thirsty for a good governed coin. Tezos received 232 million dollars, for just promising good governance.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. Dandy

    Dandy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    88
    If you consider the rise in Dash price and adoption during this year, I would say that governance works just fine.

    Also, who are you to say that there are no bonds in the community?
    I'm actually seeing first hand the forming of a local community in my city right now, with meetups that will probably become regular. All thanks to one of the proposals that were approved by the MN network.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  17. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

    That is very good. What is your city? Do you want to reveal the name of this city to us?
    Is it Belgrade?
     
  18. Dandy

    Dandy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    88
    Yup.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    I don't think its governance thats attracting the price increase - anyone would invest into DASH much like they invest into LTC because of its low price point in comparison to Bitcoins, and an increase would see to it that they make more profits moreso than holding an 8100 dollar crypto (100% increase of 70 dollars is better than a 100% increase in 450, and much better than 100% increase of 8100). Comparing an increase since the beginning of the year when it was 8 dollars is also quite ludacris - Bitconnect has also seen an increase in price similar to DASH (if not more), but you won't ever see it on CNBC as a great "investment" vehicle as much as bitcoin is.

    Shit, even Ripple has exposure in the financial industry and its only worth 23 cents. Price increase does not equate to greater adoption (a better measure is liquidity, which currently is skewed due to bad news coming from multiple news sources) - if anything, it just proves the greater fools theory is alive and kicking.
     
    #109 Checkerama, Nov 21, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  20. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
  21. Eshank

    Eshank New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I did my homework before mining my ASIC.
    However, it was not foreseeable at that time that Difficulty would shoot up to 100 Mio within 2 months.

    Don't forget, that even ASIC manufacturers take a riskt too.
    They are developing new products, for an unknown future.
    It's OK for you to sit back in you armchair like Warren Buffet and say you should have assessed the risk, risk is just that ! it can always go the other way.
    but forget not that without Miners taking Risk, there is no Dash !

    Why should all the risk fall on Miners ?

    Dash is flawed. It will die quickly intodays crypto space.
    Greed will be the reason for it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  22. Noel Morris

    Noel Morris New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2017
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Mr. Gomez, I'm impressed by your communications skills and I think you can help bring my mobile app to the next level. I'm proposing business partnership you're interested. You can email me at. [email protected] or call me 303.949.1832
     
  23. Miner from North

    Miner from North New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I live in Finland and a had this create vision to built miner farm. I ordered 3xD3 & 2xS9.
    Me and my friend are currently building our first miner room. Right now 2xS9, 1xD3, 1xL3+ & 6xMining rigs are mining at full speed in my friends basement. I have now two D3 what arent doing nothing. They are in my closet because they dont mine well.
    Our D3 what is working is currently mining Dash and the profits aint looking good.
    S9 Saved our project and L3+.
    D3's only cost problems with theyr noice, heat and the biggest issue is the low profits. If this Dash mining is this hard we will start to mine Cannabiscoin and Helium when it comes to market. If Dash dont have flow in currency back and forward it wont never rice and it will only stay at the same level. I have much more equipment in this project than my friend have but i still hope that in the future we could split our profits 50/50 and build something great with this project. In these times i will put more money in this project because i can and i try to lift ny friend to the same level with me. D3 orders were maby a little obsticle in our road but i think that we will survive togheter. We should do the same thing in here Dash community. (MN & Miners). But if it doesent work i have to move my building projects else where. Sry for my rusty english...Greetings from Finland!
     
  24. Eshank

    Eshank New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    can we switch to BitcoinX2 ?

    forked today on block 501451,
    as far as I can see BitcoinX2 uses X11 algorithm.

    take a look at :

    http://pool.b2x-segwit.io/
     
    #114 Eshank, Dec 28, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  25. Eshank

    Eshank New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Hold On !
    that link I posted may be a scam.
    caution is advised !
    Sorry.
     
  26. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Bitcoin Segwit2x coin isn't the same as the one in November. I'm not really sure on its future as a viable crypto... but it might be a good pump and dump.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Miner237

    Miner237 Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2014
    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    224
    Trophy Points:
    213
    so then what the hackers changes the votes of the 100's of amazon hosted masternodes? also dash mining is not dead or there wouldn't have been such a rush on x11 miners.
     
  28. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Well changing the vote would be a big deal, since the network has a hard on for shitty governance - now its hackable? But wouldn't they just unlock the MN 1000 DASH and dump it somewhere? But I guess it depends where you stored it... anyway...

    It's dead BECAUSE of the rush. The network can't even sustain a few months worth of ASICs without profitability plummeting to the floor. This is not only a DASH thing, but an X11 thing - all of the coins on the algorithm give shit returns and I've mathematically calculated why that is in my medium post.

    Miners are so desperate that you lost over 1/3 of your hashrate to a shitcoin for a day or two because theyre hoping to jump on bitcoin's name success by mining segwit2x (which isnt the original segwit2x)

    upload_2017-12-30_5-18-52.png
     
    #118 Checkerama, Dec 30, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Checkerama

    Checkerama Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    68
    I mean look at this:

    upload_2017-12-30_5-21-29.png

    Then compare it to this:

    upload_2017-12-30_5-22-5.png
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. rosita

    rosita Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2018
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Despite this Dash is still a worthy alternative to Bitcoin.