A proposal now costs over $3,000

[Pietro Speroni]

I dont understand this argument. The proposal tree will allow searching, tags, and classification. So no need to browse it all. Each masternode could browse only the part of the branch that he is specialized to it, or interested in it, and delegate to another masternode the rest of the branch.

If you did not understand it, I should try to explain it better, or at least differently. In every moment the value of a coin is given by the point of encounter between the request for it, and the availability. The more people want it the more the price goes up, the more is available the more the price goes down. When we print money we raise the availability so we tend to lower the value of all the dash. If the money is spent in a good way, this will increase the number of people that want to have dash, so although the new money is diminishing the value, the extra people is raising the value more than the new money is diminishing the value.

Now Masternodes in general want to raise the value of Dash. But printing money is an inflationary action, it tend to lower the value of money. So they should only accept proposals that bring more people to the dash network (raising the value) then are inflating the currency.

Is it clear now ?

 

[younglegend]

I have been saying to lower the proposal fee since it was $500. I think even when it was $20 it worked just as good as today.

We have to reward the great idea not punish them. I think what we really need is the mechanism to fund slowly

as the proposals being done instead of worrying about spamming.


We should encourage great ideas.

Even hire a team to select great ideas from pre proposals could be great.

 

[Nanolucas]

Another option to consider would just be to scale the proposal fee based on the amount being requested.

A flat fee of 5 DASH will likely always be too high (or potentially even too low) depending on the market valuation of DASH at the time of the proposal. Whether people want to admit it or not, people will always think of the proposals in terms of whatever their local fiat currency is and so the 'cost' of any proposal will vary as the exchange rate goes up and down.

The solution is to fix the proposal fee to be a percentage of the DASH requested. I think a reasonable amount would be 1%.

Examples:

1) "Dash Aerosports" requesting 1366 DASH would need to put down a proposal deposit of 13.66 DASH
2) "Introduction of Dash to Estonia" requesting 21 DASH would need to put down a proposal deposit of 0.21 DASH
3) "Koodaa" requesting 118 DASH for 6 months would need to put down a proposal deposit of 7.08 DASH

If we're worried that this would flood the system with low effort proposals for small amounts, we could set a floor of 1 DASH, but there should never be a ceiling so that the more outlandish the requests, the more the proposer has at stake.

 

[Barrett Davis]

The DASH price is sky rocketing. Gotta remove this cap 5 dash cap.

Congrats to all DASH owners

 

[younglegend]

As the budget gets bigger, it has to be organized in more neat fashion.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

The proposal fee is a spam mechanism; varying the price based on the amount requested just makes attacks and spamming cheaper.

What we need is a mechanism to make proposal fees competitive while reigning in the number of proposals submitted. One way is to let MNOs become Proposal Agents; give them a reduced fee (one per cycle), and let them make profit from proposal services e.g. proposal formulation, translation services, escrow etc. My point is, there's a bunch of enhancements that could be made to proposals but there is no incentive or marketplace for it. Let's put in place the mechanisms that encourage that marketplace.

 

[demo]

What we need is a mechanism to make proposal fees competitive while reigning in the number of proposals submitted. One way is to let MNOs become Proposal Agents; give them a reduced fee (one per cycle), and let them make profit from proposal services e.g. proposal formulation, translation services, escrow etc. My point is, there's a bunch of enhancements that could be made to proposals but there is no incentive or marketplace for it. Let's put in place the mechanisms that encourage that marketplace.

And who is gonna pay 5 dash to propose this in the budget system? Nobody! Thats why dash's governance sucks. Because all proposals target to the personal profit, instead of the community profit. The spies are deliberately skyrocketing dash's price, in order to destroy the element that turns dash dangerous for them, which is the effective Governance. The greedy dash generation of 2014-2016 may are rich now, but you sold your soul to the devil. And the devil will devore you. You will not survive without effective governance for sure. Your end is determined by the structured methodology of the spies. They used your greed as a trap.

 

[thesavoyard]

I have an idea, I'm just throwing it out there.

What if Dash had a lower stake system? Like 100 Dash to become a Dash citizen, with a small proof of stake payment to compensate for holding the Dash. Citizens vote on proposals, whatever makes it past the first round goes to the masternodes to vote? It's how a lot of Democratic Republics work, they have a lower house and upper Parliament or Senate. It's just an idea, maybe flawed but worth a discussion.

 

[diego nunes]

I really liked the idea of having an option for giving the Dash back with "no, it's just a proposal that is not there yet" or "more yes than no", but I think that would need a protocol change and require a large effort for a non-critical problem.
The proposals are coming and it's true there are lots of options to discuss and get feedback before making a real proposal in the system.

Although I agree the fee is currently very expensive, the stakes are also a lot higher and the proposals are still coming in. I don't think it's critical.

 

[Ftoole]

One question were does the proposal fee go?

 

[UdjinM6]

One question were does the proposal fee go?

It's burned.

 

[younglegend]

Is there a way we can recycle as treasury fund?

 

[Kiwarian]

The proposal fee is way to high.
Especially in countries where the currency is valued much lower compared to the dollar and euro.
Maybe it would be a good idea for dash community to set up a sub proposal community where we help to crowdfund proposals with high potential.
Maybe node owners might even sponsor some proposals. I would expect that those proposal makers would have to dedicate themselves to their proposed project with or without funding. That is what I intend to to. Just do it for the greater good of the community.

 

[Kiwarian]

@Barrett Davis
Spies infiltrated dash in order to destroy its governance system, so your reasonable arguments cannot be heard. The Masternode owners are highly corrupted. The dash community should give voting power to more actors.

Can you give some background on these assertions?

 

[Dandy]

Demo is talking out of his ass most of the time, but he can be useful sometimes.
Just ignore his more ludicrous posts.

As I understood, part of the Evolution update will be shared masternode collateral, which would give holders of the collateral the possibility to get a proportional part of the shared masternode vote.

As far as the proposal cost goes, 5 Dash is way to high in my opinion. I think it should be lowered at least to 1 Dash.

 

[jimbursch]

Dash Incubator (https://d-msg.com/dashincubator) is a viable solution to the high fee problem, and it can be operated as a profitable business.

I would move it forward myself if I had the bandwidth, but I'm focused on other projects.

If anyone knows someone with good project management skills who would like to operate a Dash business, get in touch with me.

 

[UltimateCrypto]

The proposal as hit up 3,000dollars now. I believe it will be more higher in days to come. Dash community we need to look for a way out. The proposal fee shouldn't discourage anyone from improving Dash

 

[feedbands]

Quick poll: how much should a proposal cost:

https://www.poll-maker.com/poll1985670xDc0a4777-51

 

[TroyDASH]

Quick poll: how much should a proposal cost:

https://www.poll-maker.com/poll1985670xDc0a4777-51

missing the option for "5 dash"

 

[Vedran Yoweri]

Quick poll: how much should a proposal cost:

https://www.poll-maker.com/poll1985670xDc0a4777-51

no 10 dash option?

 

[demo]

Quick poll: how much should a proposal cost:

https://www.poll-maker.com/poll1985670xDc0a4777-51

I voted $2

 

[GrandMasterDash]

No option for Adaptive Proposal Fees :-D

 

[demo]

No option for Adaptive Proposal Fees :-D

"Adaptive proposal fees" (aka the median average) is a selection process.
We could apply the "adaptive proposal fees" selection process, in the data of the poll.
But in order to do this, the "adaptive proposal fees" selection process (aka the median average) should be the favorite one.

 

[feedbands]

There is an "other" category at the bottom where you can write in things like adaptive fees and 5 dash

 

[feedbands]

interesting results so far

 

[Dash-Boarder]

Agreed with the sentiment of the thread... The threshold for submitting a proposal should be lower. In most communities, you want to encourage behavior and not dis-incentivize. Not all great ideas have money behind them... and a mechanism to surface them all should be the goal...

 

[feedbands]

perhaps someone in the community could cover the proposal fee for proposals they believe in. I would get behind and help submit a proposal I believed in.

 

[Barrett Davis]

Is this going anywhere? My team is going to submit a proposal, but still have cold feet since the price is pretty substantial. How do we get this to be a real issue?

 

[feedbands]

Is this going anywhere? My team is going to submit a proposal, but still have cold feet since the price is pretty substantial. How do we get this to be a real issue?

Hey Barrett,

Many in the community (myself included) will put up the proposal fee for proposals we believe in. If you PM me and tell me what your proposal is about I can maybe help.

 

[ragnars]

Well, i totally support solution that fee will depend how much budget proposal asks. Paying 5 for 100 Dash project should be fine. Something what costs 20 Dash fee should be much lower. One solution is %, or other just 3 categories - 1 Dash up to 20, 3 dash up to 100 and 5 anything else.