• Forum has been upgraded, all links, images, etc are as they were. Please see Official Announcements for more information

Time to lower PrivateSend fee, pretty please -- it's up to ~$6 USD!

amanda_b_johnson

amanda_b_johnson

Well-known member
Hey, all. And especially @UdjinM6 and his Core development crew.

As you already know (this is for the benefit of anyone who doesn't), sending a PrivateSend transaction (the automated kind, not the manual-select kind) rounds up the send amount to the nearest 0.01 Dash.

That's now ~$6.27 USD!

As a big fan of and user of PrivateSend, I'd love if the lowering of this fee could be added to the next software release.

Much thanks for the continuing great work, and a near-complete update to 12.2.
 
AjM said:
I think this is already done in v0.12.2, but not active yet:



https://github.com/dashpay/dash/blob/v0.12.2.0/doc/release-notes.md

Edit: Welcome back Amanda.
Click to expand...
InstantSend is not PrivateSend ;)

TroyDASH said:
This would require mixing denominations of 0.001 right?
Click to expand...
Yes, the nature of this fee is that it rounds down to the smallest mixing denom to avoid having so called "dead change". We already have 4 mixing denoms (10, 1, 0.1, 0.01) and I'm not sure if we can add yet another one without damaging mixing performance - it could get pretty hard to find mixing parties. I wouldn't promise anything without seeing some results on testnet first :)
 
AjM said:
Ok, so Amanda is right then?
Click to expand...
In a sense that fees for PS can be as high as ~$6 - yes. But they can also be as low as normal fees, it really depends on the amount you are trying to send, see my explanation about the PS fee calculation above.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AjM
A little off-topic but relevant in that it would reduce fees..

Would it be better to change mixing and use a similar method to zcoin. They burn a coin and then simply issue a new one. I dunno, seems simpler, faster and cheaper to me.
 
amanda_b_johnson said:
Hey, all. And especially @UdjinM6 and his Core development crew.

As you already know (this is for the benefit of anyone who doesn't), sending a PrivateSend transaction (the automated kind, not the manual-select kind) rounds up the send amount to the nearest 0.01 Dash.

That's now ~$6.27 USD!

As a big fan of and user of PrivateSend, I'd love if the lowering of this fee could be added to the next software release.

Much thanks for the continuing great work, and a near-complete update to 12.2.
Click to expand...

The solution is not to ask @UdjinM6. Who is he, and he is allowed to play with the numbers? Is he a god or something?

The solution is adaptive Privatesend fee (similar to the adaptive proposal fee of @GrandMasterDash).
Go vote the numbers, you retarded average people! Go vote them now!
 
Last edited:
Although I think that this requires careful thought, because the fees charged for different services on our network will shape customer behavior.

If we can't mix (or charge too much for) 10 denoms, customers may be tempted to go elsewhere for sending large, private transactions. If we can't mix (or charge too much for) 0.001 or 0.0001 denoms, customers may be tempted to go elsewhere to send small, private transactions.

@Ryan Taylor , @eduffield222, @Chuck Williams -- what say you?
 
amanda_b_johnson said:
If we can't mix (or charge too much for) 10 denoms, customers may be tempted to go elsewhere for sending large, private transactions. If we can't mix (or charge too much for) 0.001 or 0.0001 denoms, customers may be tempted to go elsewhere to send small, private transactions.
Click to expand...

So what is your vote? Is your vote a conditional one?
 
Last edited:
She brought up very important issue. This matter will increase as dash grows.

maybe we should humble our selves and learn from newer privacy tech-knowledge crypto and do

some softfork? I would love to vote for dash to organize teams to develop and improve tech-knowledge of DASH and

add value to the company.
 
younglegend said:
...
maybe we should humble our selves and learn from newer privacy tech-knowledge crypto and do

some softfork?
...
Click to expand...
My knowledge in cryptography is limited to some basic stuffs. Implementing and reviewing low level crypto requires way too much time and experience in that specific field to make it right, I personally don't have either one. If someone can find a really good cryptographer who is passionate about Dash and is willing to implement some kind of crypto magic to improve any aspect of Dash - I'm all for it.
 
UdjinM6 said:
If someone can find a really good cryptographer who is passionate about Dash and is willing to implement some kind of crypto magic to improve any aspect of Dash - I'm all for it.
Click to expand...

This could be a very nice government decision: "The MNOs decided to search for cryptographers, and pay them X amount whenever they solve Dash's problems."

Will you give 5 dash from your pocket, to propose this in the budget system, for the benefit of the community? Of course not...nobody does...Or, do you expect the cryptographers to pay the 5 dash?

Thats why the budget system SUCKS! Because it incentivizes greedy selfish people to propose for their own profit, instead of incentivizing people to propose something good for the benefit of the whole community.
 
Last edited:
amanda_b_johnson said:
Although I think that this requires careful thought, because the fees charged for different services on our network will shape customer behavior.

If we can't mix (or charge too much for) 10 denoms, customers may be tempted to go elsewhere for sending large, private transactions. If we can't mix (or charge too much for) 0.001 or 0.0001 denoms, customers may be tempted to go elsewhere to send small, private transactions.

@Ryan Taylor , @eduffield222, @Chuck Williams -- what say you?
Click to expand...

@UdjinM6 is arguably one of our most knowledgeable developers, so on the hard-core tech side I would defer to his correction... however... it seems reasonable to me to expect that if the constraint is the number of denominations for performance purposes, then the value of a "10" mixer would predictably diminish as the "dollar density" of each denomination increases. Basically - shifting denominations would likely happen naturally as users shift downward and "regress toward the mean" (mathematically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean).

It would be valuable, and probably necessary, to account for these downward shifts in density as the market values of the denominations are pressed upward. The Dash system/platform will need to react in a number of ways like this in order to accommodate the incoming value. Otherwise, we'll be another overpriced currency too expensive to transact.

OTOH: While mixing & PS transactions may be more costly than regular transactions, I think it's safe to assume that people are willing to pay up to a certain reasonable amount for that privacy. How much? I don't know.... but it's worth accounting the "market rate" for privacy. The challenge here, though, is that most people don't value their privacy *at all* - until their identity is stolen, or some such mess. Market-pricing privacy will get easier, but right now it's nearly impossible, and I daresay almost futile, IMHO. Among urgent issues facing the Dash ecosystem - this is a rising one, but not in the top 5 issues - probably top 10.

My $0.02.
 
Chuck Williams said:
OTOH: While mixing & PS transactions may be more costly than regular transactions, I think it's safe to assume that people are willing to pay up to a certain reasonable amount for that privacy. How much? I don't know.... but it's worth accounting the "market rate" for privacy. The challenge here, though, is that most people don't value their privacy *at all* - until their identity is stolen, or some such mess. Market-pricing privacy will get easier, but right now it's nearly impossible, and I daresay almost futile, IMHO. Among urgent issues facing the Dash ecosystem - this is a rising one, but not in the top 5 issues - probably top 10.

My $0.02.
Click to expand...

The increase of the privatesend fee is yet another predecided branch of the structured methodology of the spies. They decided that privatesend should be very expensive, in order to force most of the people not use it. That way, the few people that will keep using privatesend, they will be easily identified. The plan of the spies is so obvious, that only a stupid cannot see it. But unfortunately we have too many stupid here.
What is my vote? PrivateSend fee should be zero or even negative, in order to incentivize many people to use it, and that way make the job of the spies harder.

My -$0.02.
 
Last edited:
Or "free" privacy from a privacy centric coin. People really like "free" even if it's not actually free, hence the market cap boost on privacy based coins.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top