Proposal: Business Development (January)

[demo]

There was no "trickery"... I explain in every single budget summary in "official announcements" when votes need to be cast before. These late votes simply do not count... that has been well explained countless times, even if a subset of the masternode owners didn't yet realized that.

Even if that weren't the case, I can assure you, the vote would not have turned out differently. I personally know of a substantial number of votes that were not cast, but were planning to vote "yes" should business development have fallen into defunded status (and no, I did not ask for them to vote, they informed me of their intent). That became unnecessary as it turned out, so they never voted.

Finally, there is a good reason why it might not be wise to allow last-minute voting. Apathetic "shadow" voters may not cast their votes if proposals they support have for example 11% support. This could allow a whale with 3% voting power to vote "no" minutes before the budget and defund something. Had the whale cast their votes days earlier, the apathetic voters have time to react. I call it "ninja voting".

This was in a sense, a case of "ninja voting" with many last-minute vote changes. Had the "shadow" voter I referenced had time to react, they surely would have cast their votes to offset it.

yeah yeah...just blame the ninja voters!!!

AND WHAT ABOUT THE NINJA BUDGET FINILIZERS????
Havent you something to say about this kind of ninjas?

 

[Ryan Taylor]

yeah yeah....ninja voters!!!

AND WHAT ABOUT THE NINJA BUDGET FINILIZERS????

"Be sure to vote before Tuesday to see your votes counted." - Included in the budget report this month. I put the voting deadline in the post every single month. I cannot be more clear than this. The budget finalized on Tuesday as planned. Votes cast on Tuesday DO NOT COUNT.

 

[demo]

There is no way to finalize it other than manually in 12.0, it's going to be automatic starting from 12.1.

So you admit that there is a possible design that can turn the current manual budget finalization to an automatic one. As long as a solution exists in order to get rid of the budget finilizer ninja, this means that you have already admitted that the 12.0 version design is a buggy design.

So the design bug has been officialy confirmed now.

And the community must decide:

Who we shall respect, the community decision or the design bug?

 

[ericsammons]

If your read my monthly official announcement on the budget, I do repeat every month to be sure to vote by the day before to ensure votes are counted. Voting just hours before the budget pays will ensure your vote will not be counted almost all of the time.

These messages take time to propagate the network, and it takes time for masternodes to evaluate a proposed finalization and vote on it (happens automatically based on the vote counts they "see" at the time). We also don't think it's prudent to wait for the very last second to send the budget finalization command... this is still relatively new software and should anything go wrong in that procedure, we should leave a bit of time to address it before budgets are missed.

All that said, the message sent by the masternode owners we hear loud and clear. It didn't need to be defunded before we notice the angst about communication. If that was the objective of many of the "no" voters, mission accomplished without sacrificing our business development efforts.

Just to be clear: everything in this vote was on the up-and-up; the mistake was in my understanding of the process. Frankly, I don't have a big issue with proposal passing - it obviously had plenty of MN support.

And I'm glad you registered my "angst." I wasn't trying to start any type of revolt, I just felt uncomfortable with how the business development side of things was progressing, and my "no" votes here were to register that discomfort.

 

[UdjinM6]

So you admit that there is a design that can turn the manual budget finilazation to an automatic one. So you admit that the 12.0 design was a buggy design.

The design bug has been confirmed.
...

"The motorcycle you built a year ago had two wheels and it wasn't even able to stand vertical on its own! An automobile you are building right now has four wheels and it will be able to keep vertical position! See, it's definitely a bug in your motorcycle design!! I'm sure you made this bug on purpose!"

 

[demo]

"The motorcycle you built a year ago had two wheels and it wasn't even able to stand vertical on its own! An automobile you are building right now has four wheels and it will be able to keep vertical position! See, it's definitely a bug in your motorcycle design!! I'm sure you made this bug on purpose!"

I didnt say that someone did the bug on purpose.
I said that the community decisions should be respected against any potential design or functional bug.

 

[TroyDASH]

Technically, somebody could have tried to finalize the budget again to change the outcome. Not sure how that would have panned out or if it would even be possible.

I'm okay with the outcome, realistically speaking the funds that were received would have been requested later anyway, which would have left less room for other projects. Let's move on and work with what we 've got. Business development will see brighter days ahead

 

[demo]

Technically, somebody could have tried to finalize the budget again to change the outcome. Not sure how that would have panned out or if it would even be possible.

Correct remark.

@UdjinM6, as long as you are the one who initialized the budget finalization and you knew what was going to happen, why havent you try to re-initialize the budget finalization, in order to respect @fible1 votes and the decision of the masternodes?

You bevavior seems suspicious to me.

I insist on that:

@babygiraffe should burn the 607 dash.
This is the only fair thing to happen, this is the only way the core team ( that is involved in this issue as a whole) to prove its innocence.

 

[demo]

This is a quick Poll.

DO YOU AGREE THE 607 dash to be burned?
If you want the 607 dash to be burned, rate this comment with an "Agree" rating.
If you want the 607 dash to remain in the wallet of the core team, rate this comment with a "Disagree" rating.

 

[Icebucket]

Im amazed by how much attention demo gets, considering he has (stated by himself on another thread) 0.1098 stake in Dash
Will there be a ignore button on the forum in the future ?

Anyways, there is definitely a need for some sort of weekly video updates, one thread for questions and they will be answered in a weekly video. maybe even a reddit feature to move questions up in que.
Time is money! its just people like demo who can spend all day here on the forum.

Since @babygiraffe is getting a fancy new office, congrats by the way.
If I may suggest that, It could be the friday project to make a video blog updating the community on how various projects are progressing, going over spending etc. It would help tremendously with the moral, communicating through a forum for a hundred million dollar project is simply not working anymore

 

[demo]

Im amazed by how much attention demo gets, considering he has (stated by himself on another thread) 0.1098 stake in Dash

The reason I have only 0.1098 Dash is because I want to gain my Dash solely with my personal work.

I dont want to buy Dash using any other time-space asymmetric coin.

I dont want to steal Dash from the community or from the future generations, like most of you have already done and still doing.

So I am proud of having this small amount of Dash.
And many of you, you should be ashamed of having Dash, because most of the Dash you own is stolen Dash.

 

[UdjinM6]

...
Will there be a ignore button on the forum in the future ?
...

It's here since ages - click on username to show quick profile card and there you go
Sometimes I wish I wasn't a moderator too, until then I have to read everything...

 

[fernando]

It's here since ages - click on username to show quick profile card and there you go
Sometimes I wish I wasn't a moderator too, until then I have to read everything...

That is exactly the message I was writing when I saw there were new ones

 

[bertlebbert]

Yes, there definitely is a BUG... his name is @demo!

 

[Icebucket]

I want to gain my dash with my work.
I dont wat to buy dash using some other time-space asymmetric coin, or steal it form the community or from the future generation, like most of you are doing.

Then make a proposal of some value you nitwit. You could be making some Dash to pay your mom back for allowing you to say in her basement.

It's here since ages - click on username to show quick profile card and there you go
Sometimes I wish I wasn't a moderator too, until then I have to read everything...

Yay thanks.. Found it. You should ask for a raise UdjinM6 must be mind numbing having to deal with this.

Got an Idea, obvious troll purge every now and then, the person with the most trolling emoji at purge time gets kicked off the forum. Easy and simple

 

[TroyDASH]

Correct remark.

@UdjinM6, as long as you are the one who initialized the budget finalization and you knew what was going to happen, why havent you try to re-initialize the budget finalization, in order to respect @fible1 votes and the decision of the masternodes?

You bevavior seems suspicious to me.

I insist on that:

@babygiraffe should burn the 607 dash.
This is the only fair thing to happen, this is the only way the core team ( that is involved in this issue as a whole) to prove its innocence.

And how was udjin was supposed to know what the future votes were going to be?

Maybe some people voted no after the fact even knowing that it was already passed, just to send that message babyg referred to. You don't know.

If someone wanted to try to re-finalize the budget, they could have done so although I'm not familiar enough with the code to say if it would have worked. Everything went according to how it is supposed to.

Plus, babyg already said he would have been able to come up with more votes if they were needed because some people prefer not to vote unless they feel they have to. I am inclined to believe him based on what we already have seen in past budgets.

 

[mranderson010]

I am a new MN operator for about two months........still haven't been paid out because it has taken some tinkering to keep it running without being put to the back of the line. With all of that and this discussion I have to say this community and its governance structure is the best I have come across. Just the fact that a simpleton like me can vote, verify and track a lot of subjective data is amazing.

I think part of that 600+ DASH that should/shouldn't have been paid out should go to @demo for doing the research and discussing these important topics.

 

[UdjinM6]

I am a new MN operator for about two months........still haven't been paid out because it has taken some tinkering to keep it running without being put to the back of the line.
...

Wow... That's not a kind of experience I'd expect for Dash MN operators... pls check this guide https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/reubens-detailed-masternode-setup-and-maintenance-guide.7984/ "Step 8 Optional: Auto restart of dashd in the event of crash". If your issue is not related to crash pls feel free to create a new thread there https://www.dash.org/forum/topic/masternode-questions-and-help.67/ and ask for help - describe what kind of setup you are using and what kind of issues you have. I'm sure the issue can be resolved.

 

[David]

Plus, babyg already said he would have been able to come up with more votes if they were needed because some people prefer not to vote unless they feel they have to. I am inclined to believe him based on what we already have seen in past budgets.

Careful examination of voting numbers and patterns made it obvious to me some months ago that this is the case. There appear to be 300-500 votes that routinely don't get cast--unless an important proposal is in jeopardy at the last minute. They may be Core Team votes, it may be Otoh (who we know does not normally vote), but whoever it is seems to vote very strategically. Honestly, it's no different than "sniping" an auction on eBay.

 

[fible1]

@UdjinM6 If you need another community manager, hit me up, I'm here enough time .

Pablo.