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Proposal: Business Development (January)

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by Ryan Taylor, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    The reason I have only 0.1098 Dash is because I want to gain my Dash solely with my personal work.

    I dont want to buy Dash using any other time-space asymmetric coin.

    I dont want to steal Dash from the community or from the future generations, like most of you have already done and still doing.

    So I am proud of having this small amount of Dash.
    And many of you, you should be ashamed of having Dash, because most of the Dash you own is stolen Dash.
     
    #91 demo, Jan 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
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  2. UdjinM6

    UdjinM6 Official Dash Dev
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    It's here since ages - click on username to show quick profile card and there you go ;)
    Sometimes I wish I wasn't a moderator too, until then I have to read everything... :(:D
     
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  3. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
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    That is exactly the message I was writing when I saw there were new ones :)
     
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  4. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    Yes, there definitely is a BUG... his name is @demo!
     
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  5. Icebucket

    Icebucket Active Member

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    Then make a proposal of some value you nitwit. You could be making some Dash to pay your mom back for allowing you to say in her basement.

    Yay thanks.. Found it. You should ask for a raise UdjinM6 must be mind numbing having to deal with this.

    Got an Idea, obvious troll purge every now and then, the person with the most trolling emoji at purge time gets kicked off the forum. Easy and simple ;)
     
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  6. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    And how was udjin was supposed to know what the future votes were going to be?

    Maybe some people voted no after the fact even knowing that it was already passed, just to send that message babyg referred to. You don't know.

    If someone wanted to try to re-finalize the budget, they could have done so although I'm not familiar enough with the code to say if it would have worked. Everything went according to how it is supposed to.

    Plus, babyg already said he would have been able to come up with more votes if they were needed because some people prefer not to vote unless they feel they have to. I am inclined to believe him based on what we already have seen in past budgets.
     
  7. mranderson010

    mranderson010 New Member

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    I am a new MN operator for about two months........still haven't been paid out because it has taken some tinkering to keep it running without being put to the back of the line. With all of that and this discussion I have to say this community and its governance structure is the best I have come across. Just the fact that a simpleton like me can vote, verify and track a lot of subjective data is amazing.

    I think part of that 600+ DASH that should/shouldn't have been paid out should go to @demo for doing the research and discussing these important topics.
     
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  8. UdjinM6

    UdjinM6 Official Dash Dev
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    Wow... That's not a kind of experience I'd expect for Dash MN operators... pls check this guide https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/reubens-detailed-masternode-setup-and-maintenance-guide.7984/ "Step 8 Optional: Auto restart of dashd in the event of crash". If your issue is not related to crash pls feel free to create a new thread there https://www.dash.org/forum/topic/masternode-questions-and-help.67/ and ask for help - describe what kind of setup you are using and what kind of issues you have. I'm sure the issue can be resolved.
     
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  9. David

    David Well-known Member
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    Careful examination of voting numbers and patterns made it obvious to me some months ago that this is the case. There appear to be 300-500 votes that routinely don't get cast--unless an important proposal is in jeopardy at the last minute. They may be Core Team votes, it may be Otoh (who we know does not normally vote), but whoever it is seems to vote very strategically. Honestly, it's no different than "sniping" an auction on eBay.
     
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  10. fible1

    fible1 Well-known Member
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    @UdjinM6 If you need another community manager, hit me up, I'm here enough time :p.

    Pablo.
     
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  11. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    <poll history>
    [​IMG] Disagree x 5 = fible1 flare JGCMiner TroyDASH AjM
    </poll history>
     
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  12. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    He certainly knew it, because he is a forum moderator and because @fible1 announced into the forum that he was about to reverse all his votes to "Νο".

    So, in case @UdjinM6 had already sent the budget finilization command, he should have re-send it.
    Or in case he had not already sent the command, he should have delay the budget finilization command until all the "No" votes of @fible1 propagate.
     
    #102 demo, Jan 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
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  13. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    This 607,41 Dash are not fair money.
    If this community was an honest one, then this money should already have been burned.
    Decent and honorable persons should not accept dirty money.
    So I dont want part of this money either.
     
    #103 demo, Jan 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
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  14. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    That would be Otoh - I remember him saying (on the old Slack I believe) that he only votes his MNs if asked to do so by @babygiraffe.
     
  15. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    When @Otoh votes the last minute in favor of the core team, this is considered as a smart move.

    But when @fible1 and the rest masternodes are trying to vote the last minute against the core team (in order to prevent for the core team to be able to summon @Otoh), this is considerd as bad ninja voting practice. When this is happening (and in case it is too late for the core team to summon the sleepy @Otoh), then the core team eliminates the bad ninja voters by calling the good ninja, the infamous budget_finalizer ninja.

    This is the way the core team understands fairness and justice.
     
    #105 demo, Jan 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
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  16. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    Considering he has a more vested interest than anyone else in the community, I suggest that this is appropriate.
    It should ensure management is able to keep Dash on the best course for future success.
     
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  17. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    No it is not appropriate.

    Because , althought @Otoh has more vested interest than any other single masternode operator in the success of Dash, the Dash community as a whole has much more vested interest than @Otoh has. Nobody is above the community as a whole, and nobody should be allowed to play games against the community.

    And speaking about @Otoh , where was he when the lamassu problem occured? Why @babygiraffe didnt call @Otoh to downvote lamassu and that way prevent the community's money from being spent aimlessly?
     
    #107 demo, Jan 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
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  18. Icebucket

    Icebucket Active Member

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    Dont really vote unless someone really impresses me, got a handfull tho..maybe something to ease the process could be a built in tab for a special MN wallet. It might do the trick.. with features like MN voting scores for reference, maybe you could give a thumbs up or down a project without voting for reference for other MN ops.. etc.. there are so many ideas ... Its currently a fulltime job keeping up with the forums and nobody that values theyr time really got time for that.. so most just say fukit the 10% that do vote know theyr shit..and dont vote.. voting numbers are a real concern.. maybe there is something that can be done in that department ? so many requests for improvement over last year. None were heard ? :(

    @kot ..sorry.. dont know who to tag, please find someone to fix this or bring it up on next meeting becource its really sad to see the total number of active votes each month.. make it super easy.. it can be done I have faith in you all !
     
    #108 Icebucket, Jan 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  19. Ryan Taylor

    Ryan Taylor Well-known Member
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    That is an incorrect assumption. I have not conversed with Otoh in a few months.
     
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  20. BolehVPN

    BolehVPN Active Member

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    For the legal work, can more details be given and would the opinion be available for us to see? Or at least a summarized version of it.

    For the stuff that is not under you, who is the person we should look for for e.g. ATM Master Compliance Program and Lamassu?

    The Lamassu is a particularly sore point specially since they announced Ethereum support.

    Looking forward to an update though it is way overdue. Personally I would vote "No" for this until we are certain that this Business development is delivering value or at least tying up the loose ends before we pump more money into it.

    Thanks @babygiraffe
     
  21. bertlebbert

    bertlebbert Active Member

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    He did say that was his voting policy. But if you two haven't communicated, maybe someone else spoke with him... or maybe he decided to submit votes unsolicited... or maybe those blocks were someone else's. (Who really cares?) :)

    Edit: or maybe you have keys to vote without prior conversing - like I said, who cares?
     
    #111 bertlebbert, Jan 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  22. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I do.
     
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  23. David

    David Well-known Member
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    Otoh isn't as active in Dash as he used to be, and the last time I talked to him he didn't really follow the proposals carefully. You are correct that he rarely votes--at all. If I were to guess, it would be a member of Core Team or somebody very close. Perhaps even Evan himself. My theory is that we have a highly active whale either on Core Team or very close to it who only votes with a fraction of his/her masternodes (under normal circumstances). When needed, he/she votes with all of them. Otoh is actually a great "false flag" to have, because anytime somebody sees a few hundred votes they automatically think of him. In any event, the important thing is that at the end of the day, Core has enough votes for any reasonable proposal. That's a good thing, IMO.
     
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  24. ericsammons

    ericsammons Active Member
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    It might be fine now (and it is understandable now with a large early-adoptor MN segment), but I don't think long-term that is a healthy situation. Over time I'd rather have greater checks and balances, so that the core team is answerable to a truly independent MN owner population. I agree that currently the core team has a lot going for it, but I also thought Bitcoin's core team was doing fine under Gavin, and look what happened there. If core is able to conjure up enough votes for any proposal they make (and I note you did say "any reasonable proposal"), then it would be de facto no different than the situation that plagues Bitcoin.

    Also, the knowledge that any core proposal can be pushed through if needed will likely suppress voting totals, as many will see little reason to register their apparently meaningless vote.

    But again, I'm talking long-term here; right now we are still in the early stages and our current MN owner population is in keeping with that stage.
     
  25. David

    David Well-known Member
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    You are correct with respect to the long term. However, instead of saying "any reasonable proposal" I should have said "any reasonable proposal without tons of opposition." As long as only 15-20% of MNOs vote on a proposal, then Core probably does control enough votes on its own to have it pass. But if it's extremely controversial, there are more than enough MNOs outside of Core Team that they could easily vote down the proposal. If Core Team (hypothetically) controls 15% of the network's votes and only 20% of the network votes, then Core Team will win every time. If 30%, 40%, or more of the network votes, then solid opposition would easily defeat Core Team.

    In the long run, I think a rising Dash price will gradually divest masternodes from the top holders, including Core Team. That combined with continued emission should reduce the voting power of Core Team in time. One thing that has gone largely unnoticed is how Otoh has divested a number of his nodes. He still seems to have every confidence in Dash, but he's also decreasing the centralization of ownership that was previously present...which is a good thing!
     
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  26. MariaStasuk

    MariaStasuk New Member

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    Hi, Ryan! I have an offer for you. How do I contact you? Email? Telegram?
     
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  27. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    pm’ed you
     

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