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Pre-Proposal: Would you like this proof of individuality to be implemented in Dash?

Would you like this proof of individuality to be implemented in Dash?

  • Total voters
You might be right but Amazon made us lazy. The Internet made us lazy. As consumers, we expect the push of a single button to put in motion all that is needed to make us happy. All the mundane tasks filtered out, pushed to the background. This is why this Proof of Individuality is so hard to solve for all but the most motivated political gangsters.
Maybe what we could do is stop the grants system entirely and switch to treasury issued loans. In return for continued repayments plus interest, the borrower would gain voting power. This would motivate DCG and others to make profitable decisions instead of stringing along others for years.
You can see that the kusama-polkadot community awarded $594,191.35 the Encointer developers , for implementing the idea (not to mention the tips) . An amount almost twice the entire monthly budget of dash. No wonder why the Encointer developers dont give a shit about dash.

We have a positive feedback, regarding the idea to add a vote_the_numbers proposal to the Dash treasury, in order to support the Encointer communities and give them a Basic income, paid in dash cryptocurrency.

A like has been casted by https://twitter.com/MalikElBay
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We had a positive feedback from brenzi@encointer.

brenzi@encointer said:
Thank you for reaching out to our forum. You have posted a lot of content which I still need to wrap my head around. Let me just answer selectively - for now - to just what caught my immediate attention: It seems like your motivations are aligned with ours. Dash does work differently than Polkadot but in terms of inequality (in the present and inter-generational) they face the same challenges. Encointer aims to provide an answer which works fundamentally different than existing cryptocurrencies and has redistribution built in to approach equal opportunity
You ask if DASH could supply a sybil-resilient dividend to humans participating in Encointer communities. Short answer: absolutely! We are currently working on: A faucet for any fungible token which is available to the Kusama ecosystem. Once DASH is bridged, it would be very simple to use this faucet as a means to provide such a dividend in dash. See sybil-resistant faucet · Issue #173 · encointer/encointer-parachain · GitHub. A personhood oracle, providing proof of personhood to web2 or alien chains (like DASH if not bridged): See our very techy epic description. More accessible docs are coming....

The Dash community must fix their initial space-time asymmetry error, if they want Dash to survive as a coin in the future.
I hope that the Dash community will embrace Encointer community, and give a basic income to them.

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So the plan is

1) The Encointer community provides a list of dash addresses, signed by the kusama-polkadot adresses of the Encointer members
2) We cast a never ending BASE3 proposal in the dash budget system. Look here Vote The Numbers - BASE3 (mnowatch.org)
3) At the end of every dash budget cycle, we check whether we have enough participation in our numerical voting.
4) If we have enough participation, and if a number appears votable according to the decision method we choose (majority, most voted option, median, mean), then in the next budget cycle we cast a “yes or no for the decided number of the previous cycle?” proposal.
5) If the yes/no proposal passes, we distribute the basic income to the dash addresses of the Encointer members.

What do you think? Ideas? Suggestions?
We have a new message from brenzi@encointer.

Brenzi said:

"I think on the technical side, there’s a very clear way forward with a few design choices yet to be made.

Before we go there, I’d like to establish what the goal of this partnership is for each stakeholder. Let me sketch my view on it:


  • DASH ecosystem: aims to reduce early-adopter bonus by (re)distribution of DASH to provably unique humans. This promotes inclusivity and may onboard an entirely new audience
  • Encointer network of local communities: may benefit from additional incentives to start/join/grow communities
  • individual member of an Encointer community: Benefits financially from the DASH dividend - on top of the income issued to them in local community currency.
  • Kusama & Polkadot ecosystem: lending it’s security to the Encointer network (Common-good Parachain): may benefit from collaboration with the DASH ecosystem

Side Effects

While the Encointer association (which I represent here) has no way to prevent anyone form granting DASH dividends to members of Encointer communities, we have to consider the possible undesired impact of such a dividend should we be actively involved. Above, you suggest 4592 DASH for all Encointer community members. This today is more market value (~200k$) than the current market cap of all Encointer communities combined (~40k$). This means we would create a significant incentive to join or create communities where the local community currency is just a byproduct and may get no attention at all (no real value from acceptance points will be backing the currency).

This - by itself is no show stopper as it still contributes to some of our goals, i.e. the basic income/dividend.

One caveat may be that existing communities have no incentive to support new communities (or inviting new members within their own community) because they would have to share the dividend. Such a counterincentive could cripple the Encointer network as a whole. This could be prevented if we could define a per-capita dividend to be distributed instead of a fixed amount.

But more importantly, we need to be very careful about the security assumptions of our sybil-resilience mechanism: We assume the majority of a community to be honest. This assumption is realistic if the pains of cheating are felt and observed within the community itself: A community currency which can be cheated will just lose its value and disappear because the stakeholders can themselves observe the cheating happening and no one will accept that currency for payment. However, with the main driver being a community-external incentive, I’m concerned about this assumption because the giving party (DASH network) can’t really observe the honesty of all receiving communities and their members.

IMO, the proposed setup conflicts with Elinor Ostrom’s rules for managing the commons, specifically these rules:

4. Commons must be monitored. Once rules have been set, communities need a way of checking that people are keeping them. Commons don’t run on good will, but on accountability.
5. Sanctions for those who abuse the commons should be graduated. Ostrom observed that the commons that worked best didn’t just ban people who broke the rules. That tended to create resentment. Instead, they had systems of warnings and fines, as well as informal reputational consequences in the community."

"Alternative approach: Community Treasuries

Instead of distributing a stash of DASH to all members of Encointer communities, we could consider to back community currencies with a DASH reserve.

Encointer features democracy 1, therefore a community could jointly hold a treasury with foreign assets (i.e. DASH) and the community could democratically decide how to use the treasury funds. In practise, this could serve as a security for acceptance points who may in the beginning accumulate CC and take a lot of risk.

In Zurich, for example, acceptance points have jointly founded an association that aims to further economic cycles and may de-risk individual businesses. Such an association could be a candidate to claim treasury funds.


While this approach doesn’t suffer from false incentives for individuals of honest communities, it still incentivizes collusion: Creating fake communities to get DASH

Currently, this risk is minimal because the Encointer association acts as an authority on who may start a new community. But - in the spirit of decentralization - the network has to transition to an unpermissioned web-of-trust. And there, the above is a risk"

I am about to answer. If you are interested in the concept and have any suggestions, please elaborate further.
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Interesting. Or a lower dash UBI to not flood their current community.

Exactly. Brenzi misunderstood and thinks that the UBI is a stable number that does not change.
Brenzi is not aware of the "vote the numbers" theory.

I explained it to him.

Demo@encointer said:

Above, you suggest 4592 DASH for all Encointer community members. This today is more market value (~200k$) than the current market cap of all Encointer communities combined (~40k$).
Let me answer to your above quote first, to clear the misunderstanding.

I am not suggesting 4592 Dash for all the Encointer community members. I am suggesting for the Dash masternodes to vote the numbers and decide what the dash basic income for all the encointer community members should be. A number between minimum 0 dash and maximum 4592 dash.

So 4592 dash is the best scenario, there is also the worst case that is 0 dash. And we have all the numbers in between. The decided number, that will be voted every month by the mansternodes, MAY PROBABLY VARIES EVERY MONTH. The monthly decision of the masternodes on how much dash will be given, depends on the number of individuals that participate to the encointer community and on the trust the masternodes have that the encointer community operates according to the specification and does not cheat.

In order to understand how “vote the numbers” works, look at the application I created here, or look here for the outcome of 4 proposals that are assumed to be numerical ones (they are not, but just for the sake of the example).

"Vote the numbers" is not a technology directly supported by the dash core team (although the main developer of Dash is a proponent of it). It is rather an add-on that I created, an add-on that can easily fit not only to Dash but also to any other coin that is governed by yes/no type proposals or referendums. This add-on fits even to the governed coins that have not implement yet any “vote the numbers” solution (like dash), it fits even to the governed coins that their core team strictly refuses to implement a “vote the numbers” solution but their community members strongly desire that.

The basic idea is, if you allow someone to vote a yes or a no, this person can also vote all the numbers, at the cost of many proposals. Because yes/no is similar to 0/1 (or 1/0 depending on the defined semantics), so we can use the binary numerical system.

In dash the masternodes are allowed to vote yes/no/abstain, so we have a base3 number voting system. Dash masternodes can also be allowed to vote by using the base4 voting system, you can look at the relevant app I created here. The explanation of the theory about “voting the numbers” is here .

I never write complete articles, I prefer to talk to forums. So if you want a summary of a similar to mine idea (a close variation), you can also read the article of PIETRO SPERONI.
Let the DAO decide “how much” – Pietro Speroni di Fenizio, PhD

I think “vote the numbers” has been clarified, so soon I will answer to your rest points

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Just to inform the Dash community that a member of the COUNCIL of kusama-polkadot is an encointer community member ( I will not reveal who, I will let him do it if he wishes to).

If you want to be informed about what the polkadot council is, read below.

The encointer community is a valuable community, so the Dash community should definitely support it and give a basic income to them.
They are not people who really need some money or a basic income, they are true visionaries.

You can see the encointer communities and how many people participate there, in the below map.
Click in a community and just look at the number of "Reputables" at the right, taking also into account this post of brenzi.
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Kusama-Polkadot offers grants of 2000$ and 5000$ to whoever will initiate an encointer community in India.

This is a call to all the dash community members who are from India, I strongly suggest they start an encointer community.
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Why I can only see two main locations on the map?

If you noticed in my new app (still under construction) there is a button named feedback.

I plan to add there an information about the number of individuals that participate to the encointer community (as written in the kusama blockchain).

This information will help the masternodes to decide better the amount of the basic income they are willing to offer to the encounter members.
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A master thesis.

“Scalability of Encointer – a Proof-Of-Personhood Cryptocurrency”
Encointer is a cryptocurrency using a novel consensus mechanism called ProofOf-Personhood which is based on people meeting physically at regular intervals in order to attest each other’s personhood. After having a digital identity which is provably linked to a real human being, each user receives a universal basic income in one of Encointer’s local community currencies. The protocol requires complex logic to be calculated on the blockchain like verifying geolocations or assigning users to meetups in order to guarantee the security of the system. To ensure Encointer’s scalability to a large number of users it is crucial that those computations are as efficient as possible which is not yet the case. In this thesis we present solutions to three major scalability problems of Encointer, evaluate them in terms of runtime and security and provide implementations that are ready to be merged into Encointer’s production system.

Encointer[4] is a blockchain ecosystem that allows for the creation of local community cryptocurrencies which provide their users with a universal basic income (UBI). In order to prevent sybil attacks on the issuance of a currency, users have to attend regular key signing meetups (ceremonies) where participants attest the personhood of each other - therefore the term Proof-Of-Personhood. The ceremonies take place every 41 days at high sun and shortly before the ceremonies take place, users are randomly divided into groups and assigned to a meetup location. In order to prevent attackers from attending multiple meetups in one ceremony phase, the meetup locations need to have a minimum distance between each other. Because the meetup time is determined by the position of the sun, distance is measured in solar trip time instead of meters (see Definition 2.1).

Definition 2.1 (Solar Trip Time). The time delta between the time it takes for a human to travel from A to B and the time it takes the sun to travel the same distance relative to the earth. If positive, a human is traveling slower than the sun.
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Okay, but then fake location apps have existed forever. How does it protect against groups of fakes?
Okay, but then fake location apps have existed forever. How does it protect against groups of fakes?

There are two approaches.

The first one is the mobile app, the bootstrappers and reputees, as described in Piero's master thesis. (page 21 and other pages too).

The other approach is perischoinisma (the closed-fenced areas that I already descibed here).

And of course there is also the third approach, an optimum combination of the above two approaches.
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