Which masternodes voted and what exactly voted on various proposals.

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demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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263
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Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
In order to discover the different voting patterns, I calculated the hash value of the votes of every ip.
Code:
hashis=`bc <<<ibase=16\;$(sha1sum <<<$all_votes_of_a_IP|tr a-z A-Z)0`
Among 4673 IPs I discovered 908 unique voting patterns. There is one operator who has 70 masternodes, and 594 operators who own just one masternode! Note that those who appear to have only 1 masternode may also be the case of an operator who forgot to vote a singe proposal in some of his masternodes (in that case a unique voting pattern is also created). There are also about 2500 IPs who didnt vote at all.

Here you are the statistics:

70 masternodes --> 1 operator
66 masternodes --> 1 operator
53 masternodes --> 1 operator
52 masternodes --> 1 operator
50 masternodes --> 1 operator
43 masternodes --> 2 operators
38 masternodes --> 1 operator
36 masternodes --> 2 operators
30 masternodes --> 2 operators
27 masternodes --> 1 operator
24 masternodes --> 1 operator
23 masternodes --> 2 operators
22 masternodes --> 2 operators
20 masternodes --> 1 operator
19 masternodes --> 3 operators
17 masternodes --> 3 operators
16 masternodes --> 2 operators
15 masternodes --> 1 operator
14 masternodes --> 1 operator
13 masternodes --> 3 operators
12 masternodes --> 5 operators
11 masternodes --> 2 operators
10 masternodes --> 6 operators
09 masternodes --> 7 operators
08 masternodes --> 9 operators
07 masternodes --> 13 operators
06 masternodes --> 15 operators
05 masternodes --> 16 operators
04 masternodes --> 27 operators
03 masternodes --> 53 operators
02 masternodes --> 128 operators
01 masternodes --> 594 operators

the operator with 70 masternodes (he voted only Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria)
hash vote pattern: 1158937785591732461160821250619703443235969361617
128.199.60.242 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
128.199.63.105 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
146.185.129.237 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
146.185.136.53 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
146.185.164.78 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
146.185.171.145 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
178.62.192.109 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
178.62.207.162 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
178.62.227.20 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
178.62.231.207 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
178.62.253.14 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.1.28 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.28.246 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.32.68 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.34.75 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.35.182 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.37.82 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.3.92 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.39.5 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.41.144 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.61.215 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.62.162 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.65.177 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.65.185 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.76.112 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.76.183 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.8.236 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.85.165 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.86.224 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.88.41 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.88.54 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.88.55 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.88.99 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.90.41 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.90.68 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.90.69 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.90.72 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.90.79 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.91.188 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.91.46 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.91.52 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.9.153 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.91.62 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.166.91.75 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.131.236 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.133.168 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.134.23 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.134.58 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.157.117 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.157.147 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.157.153 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.157.166 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.157.196 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.157.197 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.157.198 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.157.200 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.158.16 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
188.226.158.33 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
37.139.28.87 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.10.126 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.1.86 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.2.23 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.33.123 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.34.229 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.35.169 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.3.86 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.45.18 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.55.49 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.56.22 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria
95.85.5.90 Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria

The operator with 66 masternodes (he voted only dash-on-huobipro)
hash vote pattern: 90262950120675764080366311837420367212466569290
104.156.253.235 dash-on-huobipro
104.207.130.246 dash-on-huobipro
104.207.130.255 dash-on-huobipro
104.207.150.233 dash-on-huobipro
104.238.159.13 dash-on-huobipro
104.238.167.102 dash-on-huobipro
104.238.176.125 dash-on-huobipro
104.238.176.179 dash-on-huobipro
108.61.126.208 dash-on-huobipro
108.61.161.20 dash-on-huobipro
108.61.171.85 dash-on-huobipro
108.61.186.33 dash-on-huobipro
108.61.189.92 dash-on-huobipro
185.92.220.178 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.129.62 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.154.76 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.197.241 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.201.95 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.206.59 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.225.195 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.35.170 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.39.107 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.74.201 dash-on-huobipro
45.32.8.184 dash-on-huobipro
45.63.120.165 dash-on-huobipro
45.63.36.126 dash-on-huobipro
45.63.93.197 dash-on-huobipro
45.76.102.116 dash-on-huobipro
45.76.192.195 dash-on-huobipro
45.76.194.199 dash-on-huobipro
45.76.82.105 dash-on-huobipro
45.77.10.70 dash-on-huobipro
45.77.15.33 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.250 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.251 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.35 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.37 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.38 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.39 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.42 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.43 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.44 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.45 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.46 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.47 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.48 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.49 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.50 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.51 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.52 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.53 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.55 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.56 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.57 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.67 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.68 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.69 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.70 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.71 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.72 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.73 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.74 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.77 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.80 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.83 dash-on-huobipro
82.211.25.85 dash-on-huobipro
 
Last edited:

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Awesome work!

This information/analysis/conclusion is more important than the raw number of Masternodes.

Now we understand exactly how centralized Dash governance really is.

Could you make a web site that monitors/displays this information in real time, with the danger/failure zones clearly marked?
I could do it, but I need an online linux vps, cabable to run shell scripts, a dash wallet, cron jobs and an apache web server.

Do you have any idea how much this VPS costs?
If you have a vps you already pay and does nothing, I could set it up in yours.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Awesome work!

This information/analysis/conclusion is more important than the raw number of Masternodes.

Now we understand exactly how centralized Dash governance really is.
I would like to ask your advice.
Hash value turns similar voting patterns to complete diferent numbers. This is not what we want. We want a mathematical function that will be able to preserve the similarity, and will not destroy it the way the hash value does.
Do you have any idea? Or @Pietro Speroni, who is a mathematician, does he know something on it?
 
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Apr 24, 2017
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pietrosperoni.it
Dash Address
XsSU7489b1N3F2JCiJ6guBCk1cYuxAEhBQ
Hmm, not sure. I agree that this information is really important. Probably the 70 masternodes is Evan Duffield. Maybe you could calculate the Gini Index (I never did it, but I am sure the instructions on how to do it are online). This is a measure of how centralised a society is.
 
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demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Hmm, not sure. I agree that this information is really important. Probably the 70 masternodes is Evan Duffield. Maybe you could calculate the Gini Index (I never did it, but I am sure the instructions on how to do it are online). This is a measure of how centralised a society is.
I would like a similar text function.
Something like the below:
http://www.unit-conversion.info/texttools/similar-text/#data
In case an MNO operator owns 20 servers and votes 15 proposals, and there is another MNO operator who owns just 1 server and votes 14 identical to the first one proposals, then if we apply a text similarity function in the names of the proposals, this will give us the mathematical indication that there is a single MNO operator who owns 20+1 servers. Because there is an extremely low probability the single server to vote almost identical (minus one) to what the rest 20 servers did, and all the 21 servers NOT being controled by the same operator.

There is a similarity text function in php...
http://php.net/manual/en/function.similar-text.php
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14136349/how-does-similar-text-work
...and some algorithms that discover similar text...
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/246961/algorithm-to-find-articles-with-similar-text
...but I wonder if there is something in bash, as long as I started writing my program in bash shell.

I discover this
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2722947/percentage-value-with-gnu-diff
Any other hints?
 
Last edited:

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
The code I am trying to write will never be supported by the MNOs. The MNOs like to hide, some of them simply because they are rich, some others simply because they are spies and are paid in order to destroy the community. So I count to the Dash community, in order to reveal the way the MNOs vote and identify those who deliberately and constantly vote against the common good.

In the future the Dash community may spot the (lets say) top 10 worst MNO voters, and confiscate their money by using an automated hard fork technology, in order for the rest MNOs to be afraid. Additionally we could also spot the MNOs who dont vote at all, and deny them the right to vote.
 
Last edited:
Apr 24, 2017
132
29
78
50
Italy
pietrosperoni.it
Dash Address
XsSU7489b1N3F2JCiJ6guBCk1cYuxAEhBQ
The code I am trying to write will never be supported by the MNOs. The MNOs like to hide, some of them simply because they are rich, some others simply because they are spies and are paid in order to destroy the community. So I count to the Dash community, in order to reveal the way the MNOs vote and identify those who deliberately and constantly vote against the common good.

In the future the Dash community may spot the (lets say) top 10 worst MNO voters, and confiscate their money by using an automated hard fork technology, in order for the rest MNOs to be afraid. Additionally we could also spot the MNOs who dont vote at all, and deny them the right to vote.
what a terrible idea @demo. You have no problem that those spies exists, and here you are already planning to steal money from people to balance something that exists only in your mind.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
what a terrible idea @demo. You have no problem that those spies exists, and here you are already planning to steal money from people to balance something that exists only in your mind.
Money is just a social convention. Confiscating money based on community voting decisions is not theft, it is just a change to the social convention rules. Similar to taxation, but in a reverse way.

Taxation rules are imposed today by those who hold money and political power. While confiscating money through voting procedures should be (will be) imposed by the community/society as a whole.

In Athenian Democracy rich people were forced by community decisions to give money to the city. Rich people could refuse to give money to the city only if they could prove that there was another person richer than them. And of course the taxation of the non rich citizens was considered as offensive. Everyone, rich or poor, who behaved against the common good in a malicious way, was ostracized and all his fortune was confiscated. Athenians and the rest Greeks (who invented the community money in contrast to the money issued by priests and/or kings) knew that money is/can be a social convention, while the barbarians (and the born to be slaves) who copied the money idea the following centuries, just forgot this important property of money, and (until today) consider money as a religion and/or as a property.

Money is not a property, it is a social contract and social convention, and has to be signed and to be accepted by all involved parties. We are talking about free parties of course, not about masters and (by nature or by necessity) slaves .

 
Last edited:

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
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Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
You know how to configure nginx too, right?
I know nothing. I always learn, and my memory is the memory of a golden fish.:(

PM me an XMR or LTC address and I'll hook you up with enough for a year of https://cloudbitvps.io/ hosting .
Ok, I ll download an XMR and/or an LTC wallet, and give you my address.
I hope that cloudbitvps.io can open the server when I ll pay them with XMR or LTC, without asking names and other personal info, right?
 
Last edited:

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Yet another interesting statistic.
There are 5145 addresses that have more than 1000 dash and can become masternodes.
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-dash-addresses-52.html

the richest address is this
https://bitinfocharts.com/dash/address/XekiLaxnqpFb2m4NQAEcsKutZcZgcyfo6W
it contains 155000 dash (it can become 155 masternodes)
Code:
./dash-cli masternodelist payee |grep XekiLaxnqpFb2m4NQAEcsKutZcZgcyfo6W |wc -l
0
This address is not a masternode! It does not vote at all!!

And this is the case for most of the top 100 richest addresses (or wallets)!
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-dash-addresses-1.html
 
Last edited:

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
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Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
And this is the case for most of the top 100 richest addresses (or wallets)!
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-dash-addresses-1.html
Furthermore...

NO ONE OF THE TOP 100 richest DASH addresses (owning each from 155000 to 3202 DASH) is a masternode!!!
AND ONLY seven of the TOP 200 richest addresses are masternodes!!

PROOF:
Code:
./dash-cli masternodelist payee > masternodelist_payee
for ((number=1;number < 3;number++)) do
echo "Masternodes in TOP "`expr $number \* 100`" richest addresses list"
url="https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-dash-addresses-$number.html"
curl -s $url|awk -F"dash/address" '{for(i=2;i<=NF;i++){{print $i}}}' |cut -f1 -d"<"|cut -f2 -d">" > mytop
for fn in `cat mytop`; do
grep $fn masternodelist_payee
done
done
This is what I get when running the above script:

Masternodes in TOP 100 richest addresses list
Masternodes in TOP 200 richest addresses list
"cf32d891a3b8122e1bafc65bc841594d2e89d65893b8c27456a97bb83d603bb4-0": "XsB49J6tsUczp1KT958UFhDqkYE98oPuXq"
"30d0acc1d777398585b50da2feef25ea82698821ad64916be4d22470c6e7c8d2-0": "XoD4WhKRQP5q1CmvHWgG3nUJ8jw8HQStQP"
"b0d3d9e91828429c242e5161a8fc0a4c7cda0ffcd813bda8bd2f2f3e609a45eb-0": "XccGnwNxGmGB9D82iUfSkrtA3y1MQgJsuB"
"52415129fa7434cf452022688baf38b524b2e527da7fdeda9036d5472aa54d4b-0": "XjN4gEjdobqfNEuvfZiLUthcitdTfiP1bc"
"c772829f8cb00bd09c98802f4377e0532f7e1086bb620e77cb1442d7f2b18927-1": "XdHMJbsc8sYTiaE8DrbjUi4PQRSxDbv5az"
"a57bce902b934d2201a81bb539cc439ca9d18f332548aba059c6957c8ecd4637-0": "XtvqQRDxkyYk3kjUcVHz1dSuqnTFYQ82g5"
"457a39defe206b6e939512c920ad6d85a0ac90bd5d42df0dd9c4dd4a829f53ff-1": "XgS6m4pjbLpRbhFXBF3DJMTJGeQdqSYXgQ"

 
Last edited:

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
And this is what the above 7 MNOS (from the TOP200 richest) voted:
  1. cf32d891a3b8122e1bafc65bc841594d2e89d65893b8c27456a97bb83d603bb4-0 (has 1,395 DASH) NOTHING
  2. 30d0acc1d777398585b50da2feef25ea82698821ad64916be4d22470c6e7c8d2-0 (has 1,386 DASH) NO_build_idac NO_DappDapp-Dash-Messaging-Eco-System NO_Dash-Australia-7-day NO_DASHGlobalNews-2nd NO_dash-hardware-wallet-phase1 NO_Dash-Lounge-in-Vienna-Austria NO_DASH-Satellites-Demonstration NO_DashWallet-Exclusive-Dash-Web-Wallet NO_Evolution-Marketing NO_The_Show_That_Launched_Bitcoin NO_Trudatum_by_Coinfirm YES_BitToByte YES_Bring-Festy-to-Irish-Pubs-Global-Market YES_Caracas-Venezuela2ndand3rdconference YES_coinfinity_bitcoinbon YES_Continuationfunding-PHASETWO-ProjectProp YES_Crypto-Show-Renew YES_DASH4Nigeria YES_DASH-Anarchapulco-Sponsor-2018 YES_Dash-and-ASU YES_DashBrandingonRaceandAcrobaticairplanes YES_DashDocumentary YES_DASH_FORCE YES_dash-hive YES_DASHKuvaCashProject YES_dash-masternode-tool-development-boost YES_dash-on-huobipro YES_DashRed-Dec2017-Feb2018 YES_DASHROADSHOWGHANA1 YES_Dash-Watch YES_Evolution_Offers_and_Promotions_Platform YES_gb-201701 YES_gc-dash-aerosports YES_houseofnakamoto YES_Introduction_to_Dash_in_Estonia YES_Introduction-to-New-Users YES_Marketing_at_University YES_PEER-Summit-Powder-Mountain YES_project_border-free_love YES_Proposal-Reporting YES_RenewAirlineIn-FlightMediaCampaignwithUn YES_Renew-YouTubePodcastSocialMedia-Brazilia YES_ScalingUpPublicityWithAmandaPMBC YES_south-asia-freelancer-research-education YES_TeavhersforDash YES_upgrade-dash-slack YES_Vlogs-Conferences-and-News-on-DASH YES_Vlogs-Monthly-Conferences-News-on-DASH YES_world-of-internet-business
  3. b0d3d9e91828429c242e5161a8fc0a4c7cda0ffcd813bda8bd2f2f3e609a45eb-0 (has 1,362 DASH) NO_Bitcart-and-Festy-Development-Roadmap NO_Upscale-Bitcart-and-Festy-Going-Global YES_BitToByte
  4. 52415129fa7434cf452022688baf38b524b2e527da7fdeda9036d5472aa54d4b-0 (has 1,346 DASH) YES_BitToByte YES_Caracas-Venezuela2ndand3rdconference YES_DASHKuvaCashProject YES_dash-on-huobipro YES_Dash-Watch YES_Proposal-36-Dash-ATM-Sponsorships YES_ScalingUpPublicityWithAmandaPMBC
  5. c772829f8cb00bd09c98802f4377e0532f7e1086bb620e77cb1442d7f2b18927-1 (has 1,253 DASH) NOTHING
  6. a57bce902b934d2201a81bb539cc439ca9d18f332548aba059c6957c8ecd4637-0 (has 1,247 DASH) NOTHING
  7. 457a39defe206b6e939512c920ad6d85a0ac90bd5d42df0dd9c4dd4a829f53ff-1 (has 1,236 DASH) NOTHING
 
Last edited:

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
NO ONE OF THE TOP 100 richest DASH addresses (owning each from 155000 to 3202 DASH) is a masternode!!!
So why not the MNOS to vote , in order to confiscate the DASH of those TOP 100 ?
What prevents them to do this? (except of the fact that they are stupids....)
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
So why not the MNOS to vote , in order to confiscate the DASH of those TOP 100 ?
What prevents them to do this? (except of the fact that they are stupids....)
Lets do another calculation.

Lets suppose that the 4663 active masternodes decide to vote and to confiscate the money from the top 26 wallets (none of them is a masternode). The top 26 wallets own 739988 DASH, so the profit for every MNO will be 158 DASH ( or $145204 ) !!!!!

What prevents the MNOs to vote and implement this hard fork? (except of the fact that they are really stupids....) Do you think that the price of Dash will decrease after this? I don't think so. This movement will prove that DASH is operated by a community of smart MNOs, thus DASH's price will rise. Do you wanna bet? Lets do the experiment, lets confiscate 155000 DASH from the richest wallet, and see how the market reacts on it.

Who wants to prepare the hard fork for this? It is not that hard to implement a wallet confiscation, it just requires the majority of the online (masternode, miners, other) nodes to reject the original blockchain and to upload an alternative hard_forked blockchain which does not contain the richest wallet in it. You can find the latest original blockchain here and you can experiment in order to find out how to confiscate money from wallets. Who wants to propose a confiscation of the richest wallet into the budget system? You should propose this just one day before the monthly budget finalization (in order for the richest wallet not to be able to react).

Any smart people around? The fact that the 4663 MNOs do not confiscate the richest wallet, although each one of them has $30547 profit from doing it, proves that the DASH-money is a yet another social convention. The MNOs are brainwashed in order to obey to this specific social convention, and not to another alternative one.

@GrandMasterDash, you wanted me to experiment in order to confiscate your masternode wallet. Is your offer still valid?
 
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UdjinM6

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Interesting numbers. Yes, this can be implemented and you can prepare a fork like that in code, that's not the hardest part. The hardest part for you will be to convince anyone to mine this fork and to accept the new ConfiscableCoin. What you are missing is that confiscation goes against one of the major principles Bitcoin and Dash are built on - no one can censor or seize your coins as long as you are in control of your private keys (and if you aren't in control it's not even _your_ coins to be precise). Break this principle and you are no better than the current banking system. So no, thanks, definitely won't be the project I would like to be involved into and I believe that most people involved in the current project share the same vision.
 

demo

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What you are missing is that confiscation goes against one of the major principles Bitcoin and Dash are built on - no one can censor or seize your coins as long as you are in control of your private keys (and if you aren't in control it's not even _your_ coins to be precise). Break this principle and you are no better than the current banking system.
You may call it "principle", but I call it yet another social convention. The old greedy dash (and bitcoin) generation may respect this "principle", and may brain wash new people to respect it, but I hope that the new generation will be smart enough to deny this "principle". It is in their own benefit to do it.

And of course confiscating money upon majority decision in a crypto-currency has no similarity to the banking system. In the banking system there is not any majority that decides for a confiscation. Whatever decision in the banking system is taken by tiny minorities (the politicians, the bankers, the tax collectors e.t.c.). So do not compare things that are irrelevant.
 
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UdjinM6

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You may call it "principle", but I call it yet another social convention. The old greedy dash (and bitcoin) generation may respect this "principle", and may brain wash new people to respect it, but I hope that the new generation will be smart enough to deny this "principle". It is in their own benefit to do it.

And of course confiscating money upon majority decision in a crypto-currency has no similarity to the banking system. In the banking system there is not any majority that decides a confiscation. Whatever decision in the banking system is taken by minorities. So do not compare things that are irrelevant.
Violence is violence, no matter if it's forced on you by a majority or by a minority.
 

demo

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Violence is violence, no matter if it's forced on you by a majority or by a minority.
Violence has a physical meaning. There is violence when they hit you, there is violence when you starve to death. There is no violence when some bits or bytes are changing (as long as this change does not result for someone to be hit or to be hungry). Additionally, there is no violence when you take bytes or bits from someone who owns a lot of them, because of a social convention. The community gave these bytes, the community is allowed to take them back.
 
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demo

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Violence is violence, no matter if it's forced on you by a majority or by a minority.
Furthermore....
The majority over here is the greedy Dash generation of 2014-2016, along with the brain-washed slaves. They are forcing to me (to a minority) a specific social convention which is against the notion of the basic income.There is clearly a majority here which imposes their decisions to a minority (to me). This should be named violence, according to your definition.

According to my definition this isn't violence, it should be named violence only in case the lack of Dash makes me starve to death.
 
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UdjinM6

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Furthermore....
The majority over here is the greedy Dash generation of 2014-2016, along with and their brain-washed slaves. They are forcing to me (to a minority) a specific social convention which is against the notion of the basic income.There is clearly a majority here which imposes their decisions to a minority (to me). This should be named violence, according to your definition.

According to my definition this isn't violence, it should be named violence only in case the lack of Dash makes me starve to death.
No one is forcing you, you are free not to participate. This is fundamentally different from confiscating from people who already participate.
 

demo

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No one is forcing you, you are free not to participate. This is fundamentally different from confiscating from people who already participate.
The people who already participate, they are always supposed to respect the social convention that money represents. And whenever this social convention changes, they should still respect the new one. If they don't like the new social convention, they are free not to participate.

According to you definition, whenever a new version of code is accepted by the majority and it is distributed into the Dash network, and as long as people already participated to the old code, there is violence to whatever minority does not like the new code version. The people who don't like the new code already participate to the dash network and you are forcing them to go, so their case is similar to the case of confiscating money from people who already participate in dash cryptocurrency. According to my definition, there is no violence. Because those who participated into the network and used the old code, they are always supposed to respect the social convention that the code represents, and thus they should accept the new code in case the majority decides about it.
 
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UdjinM6

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The people who already participate, they are always supposed to respect the social convention. And whenever this social convention changes, they should still respect it, otherwise if the don't like the new social convention, they are free not to participate.
"confiscate their coins" is not "free not to participate" just like "kill them" is not "let them go".
 

demo

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"confiscate their coins" is not "free not to participate" just like "kill them" is not "let them go".
You are right, "Confiscate all their coins" may be considered as equivalent to "kill". But "confiscate some of their coins" cannot be considered as "killing", it is just a change to the social convention that money represents.

There is not only black and white. There is also the gray. Lets vote the numbers. And lets use the mean average in our case, because if we use another average, this will oppress the minorities more.

Lets take the extreme case, where 4663 MNOs vote to confiscate all the money of the richest wallet, and 155 Masternodes (that belong to the richest wallet) vote to confiscate nothing. The result is:
(4663*155000+155*0)/(4663+155) = 150013.
The richest address preserves that way 5000 Dash. If they allow you to own 5000 dash ($4595000) this cannot be considered as killing. You can live a whole life with this money!

Confiscating money from rich wallets or from MNOs that do not vote at all (how much money I don't know, lets vote the numbers about it), can be a good measure, in order to force the rich wallets to run Masternodes (and thus become useful to the community), and in order to force the MNOs to vote into the budget system (and thus reveal their agenda and/or/xor the level of their stupidity/cleverness)
 
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demo

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But "confiscate some of their coins" cannot be considered as "killing", it just a change to the social convention that money represents. There is not only black and white. There is also the gray. Lets vote the numbers. And lets use the mean average in our case, because if we use another average, this will oppress the minorities more.
@Pietro Speroni , @GrandMasterDash, what do you think about it? In this specific case of voting the numbers, are you still an advocate of the medium average?
Isnt wiser to let the community free to apply the bold rule instead, and select the most loved selection process, hoping they will wisely choose the mean average as the selection process for this specific case?
 

Orion

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So why not the MNOS to vote , in order to confiscate the DASH of those TOP 100 ?
What prevents them to do this? (except of the fact that they are stupids....)
So you want the MNOs to confiscate the Dash that is stored on exchanges so no one can buy it anymore?
 

demo

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So you want the MNOs to confiscate the Dash that is stored on exchanges so no one can buy it anymore?
The money of the first dash wallet is not stored on exchanges. If this wallet was stored on exchanges, then the bitinfocharts would mention it.

For example, bitinfocharts already mention this for bitcoin:
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html
The richest bitcoin wallet is reported as wallet: Bitfinex-coldwallet

As long as bitinfocharts does not report the same for the richest Dash wallet, this wallet belongs to an individual.

And we dont need bitinfocharts to report anything. Do you consider us as stupids? Have a look at the chart of the first dash wallet:
https://bitinfocharts.com/dash/address/XekiLaxnqpFb2m4NQAEcsKutZcZgcyfo6W

Does it look like the chart of the first bitcoin wallet (which is an exchange)?
https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/address/3D2oetdNuZUqQHPJmcMDDHYoqkyNVsFk9r

We are not like your onions, are we?
Consider it as a fact, if you cannot understand the obvious:
The richest Dash wallet belongs to a single individual/company/state/agent.
 
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Orion

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The money of the first dash wallet is not stored in exchanges.
If this wallet were stored in exchanges, then bitinfocharts would report it.

bitinfocharts already does this for bitcoin:
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html
The richest bitcoin wallet is reported as wallet: Bitfinex-coldwallet

As long as bitinfocharts do not report the same for the richest Dash wallet, this wallet belongs to an individual.
You said Top100 not Top1 and most of the Top100 belong to exchanges even if we don't know which.
 

demo

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You said Top100 not Top1 and most of the Top100 belong to exchanges even if we don't know which.

Of course we know which!


LOOK AT THE CHARTS, YOU STUPID ONION! :p

Got them?

 
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Orion

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You don't know how each of the 54 exchanges that support Dash handles their cold storage and even if you look at the Bitcoin Top200 there are only 4 addresses that are clearly marked as exchanges. And if you add the possibility of an exchange using PrivateSend their cold storage could easily look like that of an individual. I don't deny that there are rich individuals but I don't think that it is so easy to read the Blockchain.
 

demo

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You don't know how each of the 54 exchanges that support Dash handles their cold storage and even if you look at the Bitcoin Top200 there are only 4 addresses that are clearly marked as exchanges. And if you add the possibility of an exchange using PrivateSend their cold storage could easily look like that of an individual. I don't deny that there are rich individuals but I don't think that it is so easy to read the Blockchain.
I was editing my msg while you were answering. The exchanges should reveal themselves, if they want their money to be safe from confiscation.
  • The 4th Richest may be an unknown to bitinfocharts Exchange (or maybe an individual under cover who runs a smart software in order to stupidly emulate an exchange. But no matter how good it manages to emulate it, an unknown exchange cannot not considered as an exchange and the money should also be confiscated. If they dont want their money to be confiscated, then the exchange wallets should stop being anonymous and should reveal themselves!): https://bitinfocharts.com/dash/address/Xrxj471GS44z5T6vABf3syocnV9Hef3zsy
 
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