What is up with the CoPay wallet?

jimbursch

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The following is from the Dash Roadmap:
https://github.com/dashpay/dash-roadmap/blob/master/README.md
  • Dash version of CoPay, pre-Evolution functions, on test-net
  • Will lead to full Evolution wallet (not merely a web wallet)
  • DashCore 12.2 Release (September 2017)
I would like a better understanding of the role the CoPay wallet is playing in Dash development.

It seems to me that it is playing some sort of transitional role, bridging the gap to a full Evolution wallet.

Why is that? Why CoPay?
 

TheSingleton

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Mar 27, 2017
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Well, I guess overall it is a pretty nice wallet but must importantly it is supported on pretty much every platform out there.
That's something we really need an official wallet that supports all our special features for all platforms.
And porting CoPay is a lot simpler than trying to reinvent the wheel.
 
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tungfa

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agree to the above
+
copay gives us independence from iTunes and other (friends ;)) to be finally available on mobile devices as needed
 
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It may be best if Andy or Ryan back me up here, but to answer the question, Copay is being used as an interim solution to implement the Dash HD wallet and associated functionality along with InstantSend. Evolution Development is continuing in parallel with the Dash Copay wallet, and may or may not use Copay codebase. We'll know more before Evolution Alpha target in December.
 
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Feb 10, 2017
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Well, I guess overall it is a pretty nice wallet but must importantly it is supported on pretty much every platform out there.
That's something we really need an official wallet that supports all our special features for all platforms.
And porting CoPay is a lot simpler than trying to reinvent the wheel.
This was the thinking for much of the past couple months. What we've discovered is that there was a lot of back-end pieces to work out in order to move Evolution development forward, and this ongoing discovery work was hindering functionality that we knew we could deliver if we kept the scope of the Copay wallet to non-evolution standards. Hence, the Copay development has been segmented out of Evolution work, for now, in order to deliver that functionality months ahead of the Evolution Alpha. Everything we learn in that process, however, will be folded into Evolution development.
 
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AndyDark

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It may be best if Andy or Ryan back me up here, but to answer the question, Copay is being used as an interim solution to implement the Dash HD wallet and associated functionality along with InstantSend. Evolution Development is continuing in parallel with the Dash Copay wallet, and may or may not use Copay codebase. We'll know more before Evolution Alpha target in December.
Yep this is exactly right.

Going back to the Evo goals, it's a network where high-power nodes provide a decentralized API 'backend' to a mainstream userbase capable of 100s of millions of users - those user's aren't expected to use a fullnode so they need an easy to use DAPI wallet that's SPV based

CoPay was selected as the obvious choice to build on because it's fully cross-platform, has a great UX as reported by a lot of users and it's a single codebase.

Initially we'll release a basic Dash version with InstantSend in September as per the roadmap. Work is going on in parallel on the Evo version too which has a fair bit of rearchitecting to work with DAPI and the Evo features and adding SPV.
 

tungfa

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My big question is will dashpay/dash-copay support masternode configuration and operations. I hope so.
i am not sure tbh
idea with copay is to make it user friendly and mobile (cross platform ) available

MN operators are pros , they are running (i hope) on TREZOR and are not in need of copay
newcomers are
 
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Bitedge

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MN operators are pros , they are running (i hope) on TREZOR and are not in need of copay
That's not the case. A lot of MN owners are not technical and use services like masternode.me, Node40 and Splawiks. They need somewhere easy and safe to park the collateral and enter the MN config. A trezor 1 is not suitable for non technical users. Dash Copay on an almost always offline machine would be perfect.
 

tungfa

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That's not the case. A lot of MN owners are not technical and use services like masternode.me, Node40 and Splawiks. They need somewhere easy and safe to park the collateral and enter the MN config. A trezor 1 is not suitable for non technical users. Dash Copay on an almost always offline machine would be perfect.
well
safety 1st !
TREZOR is 100% user friendly - incl newcomers
u can NOT find an easier to use wallet !

Services like masternode.me, Node40 .... have nothing to do with wallets
they are taking care of your "backend" MN server side - no relation to Copay or other wallets there

"Dash Copay on an almost always offline machine would be perfect"
so u suggest we implement MN's there
BUT only
with the option of using it ONLY on a almost always offline machine ?
come on - think about it

MN Wallets have to be triple save (as that collateral is big money)
i think there are some things (Wallet vs Backend) mixed up here - hope i explained that
 

AndyDark

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Sep 10, 2014
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That's not the case. A lot of MN owners are not technical and use services like masternode.me, Node40 and Splawiks. They need somewhere easy and safe to park the collateral and enter the MN config. A trezor 1 is not suitable for non technical users. Dash Copay on an almost always offline machine would be perfect.
no that's not really the case that we want non-technical masternode operators directly - if they're non technical they should employ someone to do it for them.

the reason is a large part of the roadmap is changing Dash's composition so the P2P network (hosted on masternodes) becomes the 'backend', with tools specifically for operating the network, and the requirements for individual nodes will grow very large (as usage and therefore tx volume grows very large).

End-users (Grandma) then connects to that core network using a 'frontend' comprised of light devices, like CoPay wallet which will later become DashPay wallet. They connect to the 'backend' Masternode network directly which functions essentially like a decentralized cloud. They want ease of use, speed, works on any platform. Very different to operating a masternode

An analogy with a centralized company like PayPal would be - Masternodes become the backend servers, and we add a frontend like their website / mobile apps.

You wouldn't want to build tools to manage a PayPal backend server farm into the end-user wallet on the Android store. it's 2 completely different groups. Second, you wouldn't want non-technical users maintaining PayPal servers otherwise they would be going down a lot :)

So CoPay is the platform for our reference end-user wallet that works as a DAPI client, i.e. connecting to the MN network - but anyone can build another DAPI wallet implementation. Tools for MNOs will be seperate.

Andy
 
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Feb 10, 2017
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My big question is will dashpay/dash-copay support masternode configuration and operations. I hope so.
I think that would likely be an enhancement that would follow the initial release. The first release will be for everyone (all users), and I think whether the follow-on releases include functionality targeted at merchants, miners, or masternode owners remains to be seen. Of course - since they will all be released MIT open-source license, anyone would be welcome to fork the code and build their own versions on top of what we deliver.
 

Bitedge

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TREZOR is 100% user friendly - incl newcomers
u can NOT find an easier to use wallet !
We are talking about user a Trezor for storing the MN colatoral, entering MN configuration and 1 or 2 MN commands/operations as required by services like masternode.me. If you think that is 100% user friendly - including newcomers, I think you would benefit from re-calibrating your standards for user friendliness.

Services like masternode.me, Node40 .... have nothing to do with wallets
For the MN owner they do because even when using such services you need a wallet to store the MN collateral, enter MN configuration and 1 or 2 MN commands/operations as required by the services.

"Dash Copay on an almost always offline machine would be perfect"
so u suggest we implement MN's there
BUT only
with the option of using it ONLY on a almost always offline machine ?
Is that what we do for dash core? Because the people I am suggesting should be able to store the MN collateral, enter MN configuration and 1 or 2 MN commands/operations as required by the services, with copay on an almost always offline machine are currently doing that with dash core, not using Trezor.

IMHO it would be more secure with dash-copay than dah core because copay is easier to backup and restore backups, does not need to be re-backed up, is easier to use and harder to make mistakes with. Perhaps my objectives would be better achieved by making dash core HD and easier to use but I don't suppose that will happen.

no that's not really the case that we want non-technical masternode operators directly - if they're non technical they should employ someone to do it for them.
Yeh they do, like masternode.me node40 and Splawiks. They still need a user friendly wallet to store the MN collateral, enter MN configuration and 1 or 2 MN commands/operations as required by services.

What I am hearing is that we are not interested in helping non-technical people own masternodes. This will be bad for diversity and decentralisation of the MNs.
 

camosoul

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Sep 19, 2014
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not suitable for non technical users
Running a masternode is not intended to be a job for the lazy and clueless.

Part of being an MNO, is stepping the fuck up and learning how. This is expected of a would-be MNO by DASH. It is an intentional barrier to entry meant to keep out the riff raff.

If you are "non techincal" then fix that shortcoming or you don't get to run an MN.

It's a job requirement. You're either a qualified applicant, or you're not.


You don't get to "identify" as a brain surgeon.

You don't get to be an MNO just because "I wanna!!!"

not suitable for non technical users
Every time this bogus "non techincal" argument is used; you're trying to dress up the "REEEEEEEEE GIMMIE FREE STUFF YOU SHITLORD" game...
 
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Bugeater

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CoPay is an amazing and fantastic app. Everything done by Bitpay (as opposed to Coinbase) is done well and professionally.

I've often wondered why CoPay didn't work with DASH. Please make this happen!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

ddpunk

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Hi guys! Could you please provide some updates?
I am trying to finalize my proposal steps, and one of the points is a wallet/pos based on Copay. I would rather not to "reinvent" the wheel if you already doing this, but at the same time I am happy to arrange our team work to do this, as we are quite experienced with copay code. The goal is to deliver copay for Dash and then moving with this code to deliver the whole idea based on it. So it's a good way of "killing two birds with one stone" ;)

Some info about my idea here https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/pre-proposal-ride-with-dash.18291

Is it worth sitting to it? Or should I just wait? Is there a possibility of having a conversation with someone who's working on Copay from DashEvo end? I can see it was once proposed by third party devs, but it feels like they dropped the works https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-hd-wallet-project.14628
 

jimbursch

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I suggest that you wait for the release of public beta testnet of Dash Copay, which is happening within a couple weeks.

When it is released, I suggest you get heavily involved in testing. That will enable you to demonstrate your skills to community and get to know the dev team.

The Dash Copay wallet will be included in the Dash Bug Bounty Program, so you can even earn some Dash if you find some issues/vulnerabiities:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-bug-bounty-program.16100/#post-149164
 
Feb 10, 2017
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Thanks everyone for your contributions &/or interest in the Dash Copay Beta. We have decided today to defer today’s release attempt until Wednesday, December 27th. We do not have a build in which we are confident, we had some minor last minute infrastructure issues, and there was some weakness in communications (I think on my part) that negatively affected coordinating some web team efforts.

FWIW it should be acknowledged that this is a 100% new team on a 100% new product in a 100% new organization with 0% established processes. I’d say well done so far.

Over the past 2 weeks we resolved all major technical issues in the backend and front-end, stood up a new load-balanced infrastructure, partially built out the Apple & Google Play stores, prepared documentation, graphics, landing web pages, and conducted multiple tests on the entire stack.

Thanks to all contributors, developers, and testers. Have a happy holiday weekend!
 

jimbursch

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Given the importance of this release, this sounds like a wise decision.

Thank you for the update!
 

ayMickey

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Dec 19, 2017
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Hi guys, i was looking on setting up copay on my iphone till i opened it
it comes up Confluence via atlassian.net. . . is this the right one iv loaded or a clone version ?
 

ayMickey

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Thanks Chuck
Once you have finished it could you give me the link via my inbox please
I’m away now for 2-6months
As you the man
 
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COPAY LAUNCH UPDATE:

The Copay team is operating at reduced levels due to the holiday season, and has opted to attempt the Copay Beta Public Release on Friday, December 29th, rather than today. Please stand by.
 
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yocko

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Thanks for the update, it's amazing you guys are even working at all over the festive times.
 
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Great! How can I try this wallet?
It will be available in the Google Play and Apple Stores online. It will be a TESTNET BETA RELEASE. No actual funds can be managed with this release.

Thanks for the update, it's amazing you guys are even working at all over the festive times.
;-) Many of us love our jobs, and couldn't wait to get back to creating more to celebrate about! Alas, some of us have lives outside of Dash... kind of.
 
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yocko

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It will be available in the Google Play and Apple Stores online. It will be a TESTNET BETA RELEASE. No actual funds can be managed with this release.


;-) Many of us love our jobs, and couldn't wait to get back to creating more to celebrate about! Alas, some of us have lives outside of Dash... kind of.
Respect! It's good to see the commitment in times when its absolutely not expected.