Universal Dividend and Web of Trust for Dashcoin

Do you like a Universal Dividend and a Web of Trust to be incorporated in Dashcoin?


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tungfa

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And those 5 dash go back to the budget, right?
So we have 45%(=miners reward)+45%(=masternodes reward)+10%(=budget)
But the budget is not only 10%, it is 10% + an amount arrived from the proposals fee.

Correct?

This 5 dash amount is also a number, it has obviously no theory behind, but can we vote on that number? A vote between 0 and all dash coins of the world makes no sense. So in order for a number to be be able to be voted, we must have at least 2 conditions.

1) For a number to be able to be voted, the number must not have a theory behind. If it has, then we vote yes/no for the theory.
2) For a number to be able to be voted, the number must be both up limited and down limited.

maybe a third condition is also neccessary. I am thinking of it.
https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=8585246
;)
 

demo

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tungfa

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I this this means that once proposed, the fee is taken from the proposal onwer.
But where are those fees going ? To the budget?
i believe they are burned as any leftover budget is too
 

demo

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i believe they are burned as any leftover budget is too

Burn the leftover budget, instead of giving it to a universal dividend? This is a crime!

And how do you burn it? Is it possible to burn dash? And why do you burn it, is there a theory behind? I still cant believe you burn dash, so I am asking again. Does this budget leftover (along with the proposal fees) maybe goes back to the next budget, or to the masternode owners, or to the miners, or to the core team maybe? How is it possible and how is it rational to burn it?

Maybe I have a lot more things to read. Well if it is a case of proof of burn, and if you burn dash similar to the way bitcoin is burned (and I want a confirmation on that for someone who knows), then burned dash somehow goes back to the miners, because "Burnt coins are mining rigs!". Burned bitcoins can be tracked here. Were can we track burned dash?
 
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demo

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I think I discovered an interesting quote.
https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=8585240
If there is money left over in the budget, the system will also support proposals for moving money into a “savings” account managed by a group of people. This will allow us to plan for the future and budget for larger things or to stop the system from outright wasting money. There are no limitations on which groups do things, so other foundations could also be funded, that have separate or conflicting missions. This should allow a completely decentralized funding environment to form that is fault tolerant by it’s nature, where the network itself is looking out for its best interests through the knowledge of the crowd of the masternodes.
So this is where the leftover budget goes. It is not burned as @tungfa claimed.

So the question is now, where is this account that receives all the leftover budget (along with the proposal fees)? And what group of people manages it?

If there is a small group of people which manages all the leftover budget, is this intervention in a free capitalistic system, is this statism or not? It is @raganius I am asking.

I think there is a conspiracy here. Some hidden people are getting all the budget leftover into a hidden account, and they will allocate it to the universal dividend one day.:D
 
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kot

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@demo
Let me quickly summarize (because I hardly believe in what I read here and in fact that anyone is trying to discuss this topic - even for fun):
  1. You had no idea about the difference between Dash and Dashcoin
  2. You don't have even 5 Dash to submit the proposal (actually you have none)
  3. You don't know how to safely buy Dash
  4. You don't know how to safely buy Bitcoin
  5. You have no idea how our DGBB system works
  6. It looks like you are a complete ignorant if talking about the crypto-economy and crypto-currencies
  7. You have no idea about the real socialism and socialistic economy (I had a "privilege" to live in a socialistic country for 15 years, so I can consider myself quite experienced - what you wrote here is a theory that does not work)
... and considering all of the above you are perfectly sure that you know better what WE need and how OUR crypto-currency project should be developed. Even more interesting - you propose socialism as the only proper way to develop Dash economy.
Did I miss anything?
 
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raganius

cryptoPag.com
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I think I discovered an interesting quote.
https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=8585240


So this is where the leftover budget goes. It is not burned as @tungfa claimed.

So the question is now, where is this account that receives all the leftover budget (along with the proposal fees)? And what group of people manages it?

If there is a small group of people which manages all the leftover budget, is this intervention in a free capitalistic system, is this statism or not? It is @raganius I am asking.

I think there is a conspiracy here. Some hidden people are getting all the budget leftover into a hidden account, and they will allocate it to the universal dividend one day.:D
Interesting find... I didn't know that...
 

raganius

cryptoPag.com
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
@demo
Let me quickly summarize (because I hardly believe in what I read here and in fact that anyone is trying to discuss this topic - even for fun):
  1. You had no idea about the difference between Dash and Dashcoin
  2. You don't have even 5 Dash to submit the proposal (actually you have none)
  3. You don't know how to safely buy Dash
  4. You don't know how to safely buy Bitcoin
  5. You have no idea how our DGBB system works
  6. It looks like you are a complete ignorant if talking about the crypto-economy and crypto-currencies
  7. You have no idea about the real socialism and socialistic economy (I had a "privilege" to live in a socialistic country for 15 years, so I can consider myself quite experienced - what you wrote here is a theory that does not work)
... and considering all of the above you are perfectly sure that you know better what WE need and how OUR crypto-currency project should be developed. Even more interesting - you propose socialism as the only proper way to develop Dash economy.
Did I miss anything?
[ot] BTW, I love your country. You're priviledged :)
 

kot

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Well... It depends on which country you were thinking about :) and even more important: what time?
 

aleix

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Apr 4, 2014
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You are right. I have to add a poll in this forum, in order to investigate whether the majority of MOs like to vote with numbers. In case the majority of the MOs dont like to be released from statism and from bolshevism, it is meaningless to propose to the budget and thus spend 5 dash for nothing.

Of course voting with numbers is already an option in this poll. But I am the only one who voted it. I think I am going to add a new poll about voting with numbers, because I have a hope (a tiny one) that people didnt observe that alternative option, due to the title of the poll and due to the fact that this alternative option is added recently and not from the begining.

And for historical reasons, lets take a snapshot of the current result.

Do you like a Universal Dividend and a Web of Trust to be incorporated in Dashcoin?
  1. yes for both 1 vote(s) 2.3%
  2. yes for Universal Dividend 0 vote(s) 0.0%
  3. yes for Wev of Trust 1 vote(s) 2.3%
  4. no 39 vote(s) 88.6%
  5. other 2 vote(s) 4.5%
  6. Lets vote with numbers 1 vote(s) 2.3%
and the people who voted "no" are:
1.- I don't like lists of people who vote whatever. This is not the mood in our community.
2.- You don't even know the name of our currency. Dashcoin is the name the usual trolls in bitcointalk use to discredit us there.

Sorry, I love the debate about Dash, but you rised several troll flags.

Let me be clear: Put your proposal to vote, and let's see what people think for real. You can also fork Dash, bulid a community and make your own perfect socialist currency.
 
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demo

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1.- I don't like lists of people who vote whatever. This is not the mood in our community.
2.- You don't even know the name of our currency. Dashcoin is the name the usual trolls in bitcointalk use to discredit us there.

Sorry, I love the debate about Dash, but you rised several troll flags.
I removed the list of people, and I made a line of people. Do you think is better? :D
Seriously I did that in order to rise the anonymity flags and bells, which I think are somehow low nowdays (e-mail for the evolution, public IP adresses for masternodes e.t.c)
Let me be clear: Put your proposal to vote, and let's see what people think for real. You can also fork Dash, bulid a community and make your own perfect socialist currency.
I will put my proposal to vote, just be patient. I have to write a draft, because the task is not that easy.

For example I discovered two condition in order for a number to be able to be voted. And I am investigating if there is also another condition needed.
 
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aleix

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I removed the list of people, and I made a line of people. Do you think is better? :D
Seriously I did that in order to rise anonymity flags, which I think are somehow low nowdays (e-mail for the evolution, public IP adresses for masternodes e.t.c)
So you know the usual trolling argumentum. Good to know who you are. At least, be brave enough to troll properly

I will put my proposal to vote, just be patient.
As you can imagine, I don't give a damn ;)
 

yidakee

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Apr 16, 2014
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The fact that people still respond to this thread is nothing short of mind boggling.
 
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demo

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The fact that people still respond to this thread is nothing short of mind boggling.
There are obviously a lot of questions pending in this thread, that have not been answered.
Like the last one for example, which you diligently refuse to answer.
 
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yidakee

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There are obviously a lot of questions pending in this thread, that have not been answered.
They've all been addressed. There is only you bumping this thread ad nauseum simply not accepting the answers given to you.

Please stop it.
 

demo

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They've all been addressed. There is only you bumping this thread ad nauseum simply not accepting the answers given to you.

Please stop it.
You are the one who is bumping the thread, in order for the questions to be hidden.
Like the last one for example, which you diligently refuse to answer.

Please stop bumping ans answer to me if you know.
 

yidakee

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There are obviously a lot of questions pending in this thread, that have not been answered.
Like the last one for example, which you diligently refuse to answer.
Me?? Dilingently refuse to answer?
See, you're being a troll as this has never been addressed to me. First time I read about it.

From the total DGbB budget, any left over budget that is not allocated simply does not get mined. Period. Coins are not created.

Happy now?

Please stop it.

.
 
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demo

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From the total DGbB budget, any left over budget that is not allocated simply does not get mined. Period. Coins are not created.
Happy now?
Thanks for the answer, but I am not entirely happy.

What do you mean by "any left over budget that is not allocated simply does not get mined"?
I thought that the allocated 10% is something already mined. I thought that for every 100 dash mined by the miners, 10 dash are given to the budget. Am I wrong? Is it something I dont understand? How can you base a budget on something not mined yet? And even in case you base your budget in a future mining, the problem still exist. Suppose you decide a budget of 5%. And in the future miners mine 100 coins. How do you share them among miners and masternode owners (taking into account of course that the budget is predicted 5% and not 10%)

And what about the proposal fees? Those fees are certainly mined, so where are they going? I am about to give 5 dash for a proposal, and I want to know where those dash are going.

And finnaly, dont you think that your answer contradicts with this:
"If there is money left over in the budget, the system will also support proposals for moving money into a “savings” account managed by a group of people."
 
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yidakee

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Thanks for the answer, but I am not entirely happy.
I doubt you ever will.

What do you mean by "any left over budget that is not allocated simply does not get mined"?
I thought that the allocated 10% is something already mined. I thought that for every 100 dash mined by the miners, 10 dash are given to the budget. Am I wrong?
Yes, you are wrong. One thing is budget allocation, the other is proposal payout.

Is it something I dont understand? How can you base a budget on something not mined yet?
Yes, it's something you don't understand. Therefore the second question does not make sense

And what about the proposal fees? Those fees are certainly mined, so where are they going? I am about to give 5 dash for a proposal, and I want to know where those dash are going.
The proposal fee is something the proposer pays from his own pocket. It's a small fee that exists to prevent spamming the system. That 5 Dash fee does indeed get burned, though it is usual for people to ask for a reimbursement of this fee in the proposal itself.

Please refer to this document for an in depth explanation.

https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=8585240

.
 

demo

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I doubt you ever will.
Yes, you are wrong. One thing is budget allocation, the other is proposal payout.

Yes, it's something you don't understand. Therefore the second question does not make sense

The proposal fee is something the proposer pays from his own pocket. It's a small fee that exists to prevent spamming the system. That 5 Dash fee does indeed get burned, though it is usual for people to ask for a reimbursement of this fee in the proposal itself.

Please refer to this document for an in depth explanation.

https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=8585240

.
This is not a satisfying anwer, I think you avoid to answer me.

If the 5 Dash fee gets burned, then where is the proof of burn?

And finnaly, dont you think that your answer "any left over budget that is not allocated simply does not get mined. Period. Coins are not created." contradicts with the above (written in the official docs) : "If there is money left over in the budget, the system will also support proposals for moving money into a “savings” account managed by a group of people."
 
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yidakee

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This is not a satisfying anwer, I think you avoid to answer me.
Like I previously mentioned, I doubt you ever will. I answered directly at your every remark. How is that avoidance?

If the 5 Dash fee gets burned, then were is the proof of burn?
On the blockchain. That's why it exits. To prevent fraud.

Here is an example of the proposal fee I submitted. (but was not approved unfortunately)
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/t...570802f61900b4a73b89ef6a259185b27b7836654.htm



And finnaly, dont you think that your answer contradicts with this (written in the official docs):
"If there is money left over in the budget, the system will also support proposals for moving money into a “savings” account managed by a group of people."
Not at all. No one has ever proposed a "savings account" so that never happened. "The system will support" - that doesn't mean it happens, or has happened, but we hope it will happen. IMHO it's a shame to see those funds not being used.

Quite curiously, I've been working on such a proposal that I will release soon enough.

.
 
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demo

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@yidakee thanks for your attempts to answer to my many questions.

But could you please give me a detail answer on this also:

What do you mean by "any left over budget that is not allocated simply does not get mined"?
I thought that the allocated 10% is something already mined. I thought that for every 100 dash mined by the miners, 10 dash are given to the budget. Am I wrong? Is it something I dont understand? How can you base a budget on something not mined yet? And even in case you base your budget in a future mining, the problem still exist. Suppose you decide a budget of 5%. And in the future miners mine 100 coins. How do you share them among miners and masternode owners (taking into account of course that the budget is predicted 5% and not 10%)
Finnaly I cannot see a proof of burn for the 5 dash fee. Is this red one the proof of burn?



A proof of burn means that the 5 dash are given to a dummy dash address that has a special public key from which it is prooven that it is impossible for a private key to be discovered. Which means that it is impossible for the money to be reimbursed. So which is this dummy dash address? The red one?
 
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TheDashGuy

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@yidakee thanks for your attempts to answer to my many questions.

But could you please give me a detail answer on this also:



Finnaly I cannot see a proof of burn for the 5 dash fee. Is this red one the proof of burn?



A proof of burn means that the 5 dash fee are given to a dash account that has a special public key from which it is impossible a private key to be discoverd. So which is this dummy account? The red one?
And I thought I was paranoid.... damn bro stop smoking the sativas! They are making you look over your shoulder ever 10 seconds!

Honestly though, is this crazy @demo guy onto something yet or still being an uber-professional-troll?
 

rustycase

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Apr 19, 2016
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The fact that people still respond to this thread is nothing short of mind boggling.
Yes, but total ignorance is fascinatingly amusing ! It's perhaps a weak point in my character. Also, I laugh at shabby jokes and must admit to watching too much MSM TV, which we all knew long ago is a farce and meant from it's inception to sway public opinion.

This particular troll does not seem to have any of the nasty habits some others do, so it's engaging, to an extent.
I am learning quite a bit from the common sense responses and rebuttals presented to the poor troll who is obviously incapable of learning.

I must admit, if some person of intelligence to write code to implement socialism on the Grand scale, where profit were to be equally allocated, and delivered to each and every inhabitant of our planet on a defined, periodic basis, I would be in line to contribute 1 usd fiat in exchange for such an altcoin.
Socialists out there may construe this as my pledge ! Voluntary pledge, that is !

YMMV
rc
 
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