stop dash from getting burned

[Dashmaximalist]

1000s of dash getting burned every month for the lack of proposals and MNs apathy ( or laziness)

as if today there are 6200 dash that can potentially get burned this month, this is just horrible (https://www.dashcentral.org/budget)

All this money should be used for something worth while , can we send 3-4000 dash to the core team's marketing division or something let them spend it on a kick ass marketing plan

The biggest thing that gives power to dash is DAO treasury , don't let the coins burn for sake of slight increase in your coins value as a result of deflation.

If we use this money properly , we can do wonders with marketing

Lot of people are just waiting for EVOLUTION to go crazy on marketing without realizing that Great marketing strategies take months or years to design and this is the right time to do just that

As a back up can donate some dash to well know charities, why not donate to wikipedia and ask them to pay with Dash button right on their fund raising initiative

May be lobby Coinbase to get us listed on them but for God sake , do something

 

[Naruto]

We just need someone submit a proposal to do something you mentioned.


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[Dashmaximalist]

yes , the core has to create a marketing group like they have the developer group , and they need to ask for this remaining money

with 3-4000 dash , they can do real wonders

 

[Vedran Yoweri]

1000s of dash getting burned every month for the lack of proposals and MNs apathy

- Nothing gets burned ya dumb ass.
- I wanna see proposals which add value to dash, I don't vote for the fun of it. Dash is too valuable to just throw it around.
- I vote down all other proposals. It's about managing my investment, not about anything else.
- Everyone and it's dog is trying to get their hands on the coins. Seen about 673 trolls trying already. Are you a troll?

 

[Dashmaximalist]

- Nothing gets burned ya dumb ass.
- I wanna see proposals which add value to dash, I don't vote for the fun of it. Dash is too valuable to just throw it around.
- I vote down all other proposals. It's about managing my investment, not about anything else.
- Everyone and it's dog is trying to get their hands on the coins. Seen about 673 trolls trying already. Are you a troll?

Please englighten me on what happens to the 6000 dash that receives no proposal by the end of the month ?

 

[Vedran Yoweri]

Nothing can happen to them as they will never exist.

 

[Dashmaximalist]

Right , they don't get created (or they get burnt ) because , there was no proposal that went through

The point is that we should make sure if there are over 1000 dash that are not getting created coz of lack of proposal, the core marketing team should create a proposal to some or most of them and use them wisely

please understand the real value that we get out or dash is through price increase ( the interest earned is very minor) , which is majorly influenced by Marketing

personally i was initially attracted to Dash after watching Amanda's lecture

 

[martinf]

I rather put the funds in a pile than 'burn' them on 'stupid' things.

I don't see why the funds can't go into a fund, which can be used for later budgets should they exceed the monthly fresh set of dash. So still controlled by the masternodes voting on proposals.

I see many benefits of having an extra reserve of funds.

1. Potential huge investments in the future
   1. Superball add
   2. Acquire another DAO
   3. On-boarding incentives for users
   4. Vulnerability Reward Program
2. Speculation that dash price will go up, hence better to save for future budgets
3. Funds left for when block reward goes way down, eventually reaching zero.

This should be built into the network, i.e. no manual management of the extra funds.

I see it as completely natural that we can't match costs with revenue each months. The revenue is what it is, depending on block reward and exchange rate. We should be able to handle variations on the cost side.

Can anyone see any drawbacks of such system?

 

[Dashmaximalist]

I rather put the funds in a pile than 'burn' them on 'stupid' things.

I don't see why the funds can't go into a fund, which can be used for later budgets should they exceed the monthly fresh set of dash. So still controlled by the masternodes voting on proposals.

I see many benefits of having an extra reserve of funds.

1. Potential huge investments in the future
   1. 'Superball add"
   2. Acquire another DAO
   3. On-boarding incentives for users
2. Speculation that dash price will go up, hence better to save for future budgets
3. Funds left when block reward goes way down

This should be built into the network, i.e. no manual management of the funds.

Can anyone see any drawbacks of such system?

well said , more money - more power to do bigger things

The biggest reason why dash is awesome is we are using money creatively by paying some for security ( miners), investors and marketing

the moment we get lazy and don't keep up, some one else will do it better

 

[Technologov]

+1. I would prefer to roll-over unspent coins to the future budget. But don't throw it on useless projects.

 

[Leonidas]

I don't see why the funds can't go into a fund, which can be used for later budgets should they exceed the monthly fresh set of dash. So still controlled by the masternodes voting on proposals.

I also agree.

Actually that what's the core team do as far as I understand. Because of price increase, they didn't spent all the amount they had asked for in their budget proposal. So they just put it aside until they need it.

We should definitely do it for the whole unspent budget system.

Question are is it technically feasible ? And how long would it take ? I wouldn't ask how much coz we could simply pay the developers in charge of that from the unspent budget

 

[martinf]

Pinging @babygiraffe
Are there reasons for not saving unspent budget funds for future proposals?
Is it perhaps already on the roadmap through sentinel?

Thanks

 

[Dashmaximalist]

I also agree.

Actually that what's the core team do as far as I understand. Because of price increase, they didn't spent all the amount they had asked for in their budget proposal. So they just put it aside until they need it.

We should definitely do it for the whole unspent budget system.

Question are is it technically feasible ? And how long would it take ? I wouldn't ask how much coz we could simply pay the developers in charge of that from the unspent budget

This creates a slight risk of master nodes not voting on anything forever and voting for themselves or something( which is very less likely per se )

The core team needs to strengthen the marketing division immediately , they hired a ton of developers but nothing much on the other divisions

 

[Vedran Yoweri]

I rather put the funds in a pile than 'burn' them on 'stupid' things.
I don't see why the funds can't go into a fund

It will create a target to steal it.

I rather put the funds in a pile than 'burn' them on 'stupid' things.
So still controlled by the masternodes voting on proposals.

Not possible.

I rather put the funds in a pile than 'burn' them on 'stupid' things.
Superball add
Acquire another DAO
On-boarding incentives for users
Vulnerability Reward Program

That's what proposals are for.

I rather put the funds in a pile than 'burn' them on 'stupid' things.
Speculation that dash price will go up, hence better to save for future budgets

Speculate with your own funds, not with other peoples (our) funds.

 

[martinf]

1. It will create a target to steal it.

2. Not possible.

3. That's what proposals are for.

4. Speculate with your own funds, not with other peoples (our) funds.

1. The only way to access the funds should be through masternode voting. No person should be in possession of a key that could spend the funds. One would have to steal a majority of the masternodes to get the funds, in case we have bigger issues at hand.

2. With all due respect, I choose to not believe that. Of course it's not possible with current implementation. This thread is about a suggester improvement.

3. The budget at hand each month is limited. For large investments one would have to split it up over multiple months. That would not be required if we had a larger capital already saved.

4. You are trolling. I'm suggesting that the masternode operators "speculate". The alternative cost to a proposal changes. Instead of "pay now, or burn the money" it get to "pay now, or save the money"

 

[TroyDASH]

There will not be 6000 dash not-used in this months budget, that is a huge exaggeration. Most of the proposals haven't been submitted yet, that is why you see so much unallocated.

 

[halso]

Dash that is burned means the dash that I hold as an investor is more valuable. I am comfortable with that scenario.

 

[Dashmaximalist]

Dash that is burned means the dash that I hold as an investor is more valuable. I am comfortable with that scenario.

thats exactly the short sightedness we need to avoid , if we spent the money in marketing , we would make 10-50x return instead of the milder inflation alternatively

 

[martinf]

Dash that is burned means the dash that I hold as an investor is more valuable. I am comfortable with that scenario.

yes, you are right that burning is better to burn it than to give it away to any random person. The question is: Is it better to burn it than giving it future masternode operators (to spend on future proposals)?
It might matter less if we constantly will have more budget than we have proposals. But if we in the future have more proposals than budget it would obviously be better if we had dash saved up.

 

[akhavr]

I rather put the funds in a pile than 'burn' them on 'stupid' things.

I don't see why the funds can't go into a fund, which can be used for later budgets should they exceed the monthly fresh set of dash. So still controlled by the masternodes voting on proposals.

This was extensively discussed when budgeting system was first introduced. And it was decided against

 

[JZA]

yes , the core has to create a marketing group like they have the developer group , and they need to ask for this remaining money

with 3-4000 dash , they can do real wonders

There is a marketing group is called the Outreach program, and I believe is better if we get them distributed across the community. On the other side, we do need some support for third party podcasts to expand the broadcast to other audiences, otherwise we are just keeping preaching to the choir.

Like, it would be awesome if Leo Laporte from Twit had a podcast on DASH or at least a special series of videos about DASH.

 

[martinf]

This was extensively discussed when budgeting system was first introduced. And it was decided against

Oh, I didn't know that. What were the arguments?

 

[akhavr]

Oh, I didn't know that. What were the arguments?

General line was against creating a giant pile of funds. I'm sure you can dig the discussion on this forum.

 

[martinf]

General line was against creating a giant pile of funds. I'm sure you can dig the discussion on this forum.

I did some digging. I couldn't find anything against a pile of funds. I did however find a message from Evan himself where he seems to think saving unallocated funds for future proposals here: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/problems-with-budget-system-possible-solutions.7922/#post-82704

 

[akhavr]

That was about 2 years ago, do you expect me to remeber the exact thread?

 

[I_am_cuul]

I rather put the funds in a pile than 'burn' them on 'stupid' things.

I don't see why the funds can't go into a fund, which can be used for later budgets should they exceed the monthly fresh set of dash. So still controlled by the masternodes voting on proposals.

I see many benefits of having an extra reserve of funds.

1. Potential huge investments in the future
   1. Superball add
   2. Acquire another DAO
   3. On-boarding incentives for users
   4. Vulnerability Reward Program
2. Speculation that dash price will go up, hence better to save for future budgets
3. Funds left for when block reward goes way down, eventually reaching zero.

This should be built into the network, i.e. no manual management of the extra funds.

I see it as completely natural that we can't match costs with revenue each months. The revenue is what it is, depending on block reward and exchange rate. We should be able to handle variations on the cost side.

Can anyone see any drawbacks of such system?

I agree, this sounds like a great idea. The nice thing about it is we don't need to implement it now since we are still spending less than we create. 5 or 10 years down the road it shouldn't be too hard to look back in the Dash budget history and count how many Dash were never created and then to allow the DAO to create some of these funds when proposal costs exceed the current monthly budget. This way there's no way to hack the funds because, like treasury funds, they will only be created when they are needed.

So we can probably put off this idea until we need to spend more than the monthly budget allows.

 

[lynx]

5 or 10 years down the road it shouldn't be too hard to look back in the Dash budget history and count how many Dash were never created and then to allow the DAO to create some of these funds

Don't mess with coin creation. Predictable coin creation (inflation) is what allows crypto to maintain its value.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

 

[halso]

I did some digging. I couldn't find anything against a pile of funds. I did however find a message from Evan himself where he seems to think saving unallocated funds for future proposals here: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/problems-with-budget-system-possible-solutions.7922/#post-82704

Look at dash central. There have been a number of proposals in the past to collect unallocated funds and pool them. These proposals were consistently voted down by MNOs.

 

[Leonidas]

Look at dash central. There have been a number of proposals in the past to collect unallocated funds and pool them. These proposals were consistently voted down by MNOs.

That was about 2 years ago

Our community and our needs constantly evolve. Even though I appreciate the info on how decisions were taken in the past by the Masternode (which can effectively gives us hint on how they feel today), I believe that this should not be an argument as our strength should always be adaptation and optimization (Or other organization would do it before us as Ryan Taylor pointed out in the last open-house talk).

Now if it's something that indeed is fairly consistent in the community, that is prefering burning funds than stocking it, maybe it would be an idea to write an article about it on the wikipedia explaining the official position of the dash community regarding that topic.

Because except for stating that it has been discussed on the past, I don't see any proper argument (as no sources were provided), which I'd really be interested in !

 

[akhavr]

While an article/blog post/wiki page might help, it's not a task for me: I'm exceptionally bad writer and public presenter.