Should Platform run on all nodes or should Platform run only on High Performance nodes ?

[vazaki3]

This is a little over dramatic. The network is voting on how to start platform safely, Platform is a POS and expected to have about 30k DASH in value on it. Things we know about POS systems is they don't scale well with more nodes, luckily, for a simple merchant directory and dash pay app (pay to name) you don't need a whole bunch of decentralisation. There is no need to burden every node with this nonsense, so the network, big fish and small fish are voting to push that burden onto fewer nodes of 4k size and leave the main chain to run on the 1k nodes + 4k nodes. This seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Yes..it is reasonable whatever you said.

But what about the rewards? Why excluding the 1k masternodes from the expected future wealth? Why the 1k, at the best scenario, should stack at the same ROI, while the 4k/10k will become richer and richer?

You may argue that the 4k/10k are offering the Platform service, so they deserve to become richer. Yes, they deserve to become richer, but only if they manage to stand alone in their own feet. The 4k/10k do not deserve to become richer by asking the feet of all the masternodes, the 1k feet included....

So let the DashPlatform launch separately, without asking a portion from the masternodes' rewards. Or, if some 4k/10k masternodes really want the platform to launch, then let them pay by themselves the reward of the platform, without asking money from the rest (1k/4k/10k) masternodes who dont like the platform.

The DashPlatform stole from the budget a huge amount of dash for its development. Now they want also to steal from the masternodes' rewards. Αdd insult to an injury??? Well, thats enough, DashPlatform proponents! You are an endless pit, a blind pork barrel.

The DashPlatform proponents should grow up, should try to live in the free market by their own value, and not be based on the value of others. Not only the DashPlatform should launch standalone without asking a portion from the masternodes rewards, but also it should offer SHARES to all the masternodes, so that in case the platform becomes profitable it will pay back the huge amount of money that all the masternodes gave for the development of this damned platform.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

100% agree. I can't be bothered to go back and find Sam's quote on one of their videos, but he basically had said that Platform would be very profitable and pay for itself.

The reason I can't be bothered to go back and find it is because I am simply losing hope and offloading more dash. Sure, I accept that dash might moon for a while, and I'll be ready for that, but long term Platform is going to collapse and take dash as a payment network with it. If Platform was truly profitable it would stand on it's own and pay for itself, none of this FUD about security. For if it were a security issue then that too says it was very poorly designed and managed.

 

[xkcd]

The DashPlatform proponents should grow up, should try to live in the free market by their own value, and not be based on the value of others.

It is a free market, I will explain.

The reason I can't be bothered to go back and find it is because I am simply losing hope and offloading more dash

Not so hastily !


In the 4k option (same applies to the 10k option) a free market develops between the two groups. Say for example the 4k masternodes have an ROI greatly exceeding the 1K group, then people with 4x1k nodes will consolidate them into one 4K node and run a node this will have 2 impacts.

1. The ROI for the 4k nodes will decrease because there are now more of them to pay from the SAME amount of coins.
2. The ROI for the 1k nodes will increase, because three nodes were removed to form one new 4k node, note that 4k nodes also get core rewards. This reduction in 1k nodes means as faster payment cycle means increased ROI.

So, this is how the ENTIRE network can benefit from both the 4k plan AND the 10k even though, yes, some of the reward currently going to the 1k nodes will be diverted to the 4k (or 10k) evo nodes.


Finally, MNOwatch.org will create pages that help MNOs figure out the effective ROI in each pool and chart the ROI over time, so we can make better informed decisions on which node pays better.

Dear @GrandMasterDash perhaps you don't understand the above this is why you can't understand why Dash would see bullish price action? I urge you to not sell out of pride, emotions, or dogmatic reasons, but instead think it over logically without all the feelings and take your profits at a much higher price.

 

[vazaki3]

It is a free market, I will explain. In the 4k option (same applies to the 10k option) a free market develops between the two groups. Say for example the 4k masternodes have an ROI greatly exceeding the 1K group, then people with 4x1k nodes will consolidate them into one 4K node and run a node this will have 2 impacts.

1. The ROI for the 4k nodes will decrease because there are now more of them to pay from the SAME amount of coins.
2. The ROI for the 1k nodes will increase, because three nodes were removed to form one new 4k node, note that 4k nodes also get core rewards. This reduction in 1k nodes means as faster payment cycle means increased ROI.

So, this is how the ENTIRE network can benefit from both the 4k plan AND the 10k even though, yes, some of the reward currently going to the 1k nodes will be diverted to the 4k (or 10k) evo nodes.

The free market is supposed to be among everyone, among every cryptocurrency out there. The competition among two or three dash masternode groups cannot be called a free market. Please dont change the definition and the meaning of the free market concept, in order to support your narative.

Additionaly Dash members should be presented united and as one body in the free market and in front of other cryptos. The one who adds quarrels inside dash, the one who separates the dash members and makes them compete and quarrel eachother instead of competing and quarrel with other cryptos, he is considered by me as an enemy of dash, as an agent. This can be compared to the damage a bad practiced syndicalism does to a state.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Dear @GrandMasterDash perhaps you don't understand the above this is why you can't understand why Dash would see bullish price action? I urge you to not sell out of pride, emotions, or dogmatic reasons, but instead think it over logically without all the feelings and take your profits at a much higher price.

Yes, this is what Sam referred to as the equilibrium, it is the same concept applied at Horizen / Zencash. After Zencash pivoted away from payments it went down massively in rank, despite solving real world problems and having massive speed and scaling capabilities. A loosely similar outcome when Zcoin was rebranded to Firo (imo both of them had stupid rebrands).

Whether it's MNs or HPMNs, they both have upper limits to the number of nodes receiving rewards, And while in theory there is an equilibrium, these upper limits can not be brute forced making an imbalance possible, which is one reason this is not the "free market".

But also, as I said earlier, it is entirely possible to find equilibrium where both node types have lower node counts e.g. just doesn't gain enough traction, regardless of speed, scaling or fees. Just like when Taylor suggested the stealing from miners to incentivize more MNs, just didn't work and you already know the current price of dash. This is the risk DCG is forcing on MNs when they rob Peter to pay Paul. The claim, of course, is that Peter was never robbed if Paul is paying him back. I suppose we can say people are never abducted if they are fed Champaign and dressed in designer clothes. I say this is not the free market.

At this point I am not offloading en masse, but it's safe to say, I am not accumulating to reach another MN / HPMN. I am working on the assumption that dash may well do a massive pump and then deflate all the way back. Plus, there is too much risk for new attack vectors and chain halts, something I will surely resent while pointing my finger at Sam.

A lack of faith in Sam with his double-speak and a complete lack of will to listen to others. Sam never speaks of dash the payment network. He is so down the rabbit hole with Platform that you can tell he has no interest in getting back on track. Many people here seem to think DCG will do some fine tuning, make some money and then go back to payments. No, I entirely disagree, all evidence is pointing to the opposite, just like Zencash / Horizen. Oh sure, do some Dashpay and usernames.. fix some long standing governance issues.. and that's it really, constant tweaking and not much else. Sam said sharding would be taking a year or two, that alone will consume a lot of time and resources.

Dash needs new leadership and a refreshing approach before I can get some hope back.

 

[xkcd]

The free market is supposed to be among everyone, among every cryptocurrency out there. The competition among two or three dash masternode groups cannot be called a free market. Please dont change the definition and the meaning of the free market concept, in order to support your narative.

Additionaly Dash members should be presented united and as one body in the free market and in front of other cryptos. The one who adds quarrels inside dash, the one who separates the dash members and makes them compete and quarrel eachother instead of competing and quarrel with other cryptos, he is considered by me as an enemy of dash, as an agent. This can be compared to the damage a bad practiced syndicalism does to a state.

There is some truth to what you write, we should be united, I think we still can be if we accept various levels of involvement, in truth we already have that, for example, someone with no Dash can run a full node, but pretty much do nothing else. Someone with 1 Dash or more can participate in crowdnode and through their custody vote and get a share in a masternode, someone with 1,000 Dash can own their own masternode and maybe in the future, someone with 4k Dash can own a Platform Masternode. I think we can be OK with these levels of involvement because the capitalist's manifesto which is the more you put in, the more you get.

 

[vazaki3]

There is some truth to what you write, we should be united, I think we still can be if we accept various levels of involvement, in truth we already have that, for example, someone with no Dash can run a full node, but pretty much do nothing else. Someone with 1 Dash or more can participate in crowdnode and through their custody vote and get a share in a masternode, someone with 1,000 Dash can own their own masternode and maybe in the future, someone with 4k Dash can own a Platform Masternode. I think we can be OK with these levels of involvement because the capitalist's manifesto which is the more you put in, the more you get.

If some 4k/10k masternodes really want the platform to launch, then let them pay by themselves from their own reward the cost of the platform , without asking the masternode rewards from the rest (1k/4k/10k) masternodes who dont like the platform.

Farfetched, I may also tolerate all the 4k/10k to be forced to pay from their own personal masternode rewards, even if they do not participate as nodes into the platform, because at least they have the chance to participate.

But as long as the 1k are excluded from the feast, asking them to pay a portion of their rewards to support the platform is absurd and against any notion of free market. It is a cruel and unfair form of taxation.

 

[vazaki3]

Additionaly Dash members should be presented united and as one body in the free market and in front of other cryptos. The one who adds quarrels inside dash, the one who separates the dash members and makes them compete and quarrel eachother instead of competing and quarrel with other cryptos, he is considered by me as an enemy of dash, as an agent. This can be compared to the damage a bad practiced syndicalism does to a state.

In order to preserve this valuable unity among the Dash masternodes, not only the DashPlatform should launch standalone and compete in the free market without asking a portion from the masternodes rewards, but also the DashPlatform should offer Dashplatform SHARES to all the masternodes, so that in case the Dashplatform becomes profitable to pay back the huge amount of money that all the masternodes gave for the development of that platform.

 

[amanda_b_johnson]

The changes currently proposed to launch Platform -- both the collection of proposals from Sam as well as the reactionary proposal from Rion -- could each effectively break the Dash network in one way or another.

But we lack the main thing we need to evaluate whether any or none of the proposals is worth considering: the viewpoint and vision of a chief.

DCG is a chief-less entity. We have only their first mate at its helm right now. We are, of course, so thankful to Sam for taking the helm in the wake of the resignation of his chief.

But the time to substantially alter Dash's course is not when the captain has jumped ship and the first mate is grasping the wheel out of temporary necessity!

DCG needs a chief before we can seriously entertain any major proposals from them. To make any of the big changes suggested by their first mate -- a man who, by definition, is not responsible for the overall vision for Dash -- may well bring about our demise.

Make them do it right. Make DCG finally replace their chief and come back to us with a real plan -- one that includes proper long-term vision, and ultimately, the necessary responsibility for that vision that only a chief can bring.

We've waited this long. We can wait a little longer.

Or maybe -- just maybe -- an entity outside DCG will step up to the plate and present us with the most compelling vision and practical implementation we've been pitched yet.

Thus, please consider voting NO or ABSTAIN on all current Evo-launch-related proposals.

 

[TheNetworkIsBiggerThanYou]

***laughs in CEO Sam Bankman-Fried***

 

[vazaki3]

DCG needs a chief before we can seriously entertain any major proposals from them.

We dont need a chief. We need a Dash knowledge tree to vote/pray on it. A tree where all the possible decisions for the dash cryptocurrency are available to be voted in its branches. And we need angels (aka messengers) to inform us and guide us, in order to cast wise votes/prays into this Dash knowledge tree and make it evolve into a tree of life. Dash, as everything in life, has its own tree of knowledge of good and bad, and its own best version of that tree (a tree of life). It is not enough for someone to discover the tree of life of Dash. It has to communicate the message to the other Dash community members, and convince them to vote/pray wisely into the Dash decision tree . So we dont need chiefs, we need angels and comrades. And we need to vote the numbers too.

There are 10 kinds of humans.
These who understand the above, and these who do not.

TLDR;
I believe that the correct vote/pray (for the branch of the Dash knowledge tree we are discussing in this thread) is:

1) Dashplatform should be launched initially by the discovered individualities of mnowatch.org , one node each. <--real decentralization, incentivizes the increase of the voters
2) Let the DashPlatform launch standalone in the free market, without asking any masternode rewards. <--NO to a Dashplatform fed by MN rewards, this is statism.
3) Offer Dashplatform shares to all the masternodes, allowing them to be paid in case the Dashplatform becomes profitable in the free market. <-- unify the dash community, in contrast to the "divide and conquer" method of DCG
4) Turn the Dashplatform profitable by creating an app that will support the creation of a Dash knowledge tree. This decision tree will be replicated everywhere in the platform and people will vote/pray on it, add or delete branches of it, and comment on it (by paying the relevant platform fee). <-- governance without amanda's chief
5) Make the tree an absolute commitment for all the developers of DCG, so that no DCG development is allowed in case there is not a relevant branch of the tree that allows it. <-- accountable developers

Vote/Pray all of the above, and the tree of life will flourish....

the king saw a watcher (*), a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying: "Chop down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump of its roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze and in the tender grass of the field, and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven periods of time pass over him" --- εἶδεν ὁ βασιλεὺς εἲρ καὶ ἅγιον καταβαίνοντα ἀπὸ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, καὶ εἶπεν·: "ἐκτίλατε τὸ δένδρον καὶ διαφθείρατε αὐτό, πλὴν τὴν φυὴν τῶν ριζῶν αὐτοῦ ἐν τῇ γῇ ἐάσατε καὶ ἐν δεσμῷ σιδηρῷ καὶ ἐν χαλκῷ καὶ ἐν τῇ χλόῃ τῇ ἔξω, καὶ ἐν τῇ δρόσῳ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ αὐλισθήσεται, καὶ μετὰ θηρίων ἀγρίων ἡ μερὶς αὐτοῦ, ἕως οὗ ἑπτὰ καιροὶ ἀλλοιωθῶσιν ἐπ’ αὐτόν" -- Daniel 4:23–25

 

[vampyren]

In the 4k option (same applies to the 10k option) a free market develops between the two groups. Say for example the 4k masternodes have an ROI greatly exceeding the 1K group, then people with 4x1k nodes will consolidate them into one 4K node and run a node this will have 2 impacts.

Now your assuming that many have 4k of Dash and running single nodes. That can be far from the truth. Cost of 1MN is roughly 45k USD today which is pretty high even at the bearmarket....

We dont need a chief. We need a Dash knowledge tree to vote on it. A tree where all the possible decisions for the dash cryptocurrency are available to be voted in its branches. And we need angels (aka messengers) to inform us and guide us, in order to cast wise votes into this Dash knowledge tree and make it evolve into a tree of life. Dash, as everything in life, has its own tree of knowledge of good and bad, and its own best version of that tree (a tree of life). It is not enough for someone to discover the tree of life of Dash. It has to communicate the message to the other Dash community members, and convince them to vote wisely into the Dash decision tree . So we dont need chiefs, we need angels and comrades. And we need to vote the numbers too.

Not sure about the tree but i agree we need a better way of doing things than having a CEO!
After all we have a DAO! The D=Decentralized=No CEO
Its good to have people with vision leading the way but in the end it should be the people who have the last say if we are truly decentralized. And with that there need to be some sort of proof of identify so that whales can't vote with their "weight". Something like BrighID...

 

[vazaki3]

Something like BrighID...

BrightID is using an app, installed in your telephone. You will get verified on BrightID based on your social relationships and the communities you belong to. These are presented to BrightID with your connections and the groups you create or join. If someone discovers the real identity of one of your connections, he can start tracing back and may discover your real identity too. This is what facebook also does. So BrightID is yet another soft KYC solution.

I dont like soft KYC solutions, because anonymity is my number one priority.

So I prefer mnowatch.org, that verifies individualities based on the unique way they voted. It is extremely rare two people to agree about everything. The unique way they vote reveals their individuality. As the Good Book says.....

"Πάλιν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἐὰν δύο ὑμῶν συμφωνήσωσιν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς περὶ παντὸς πράγματος οὗ ἐὰν αἰτήσωνται, γενήσεται αὐτοῖς παρὰ τοῦ πατρός μου τοῦ ἐν οὐρανοῖς." -- Matthew 18:19

I have set the threshold of the individuality discovery to 500 mnowatch reports. But if you dont agree with 500 reports, lets vote the numbers , lets vote a number from 1 report to 2862 reports (that we have until today). (2862)base10 = (230232)base4, so voting 2862 numbers will cost you 6 dash. Unless of course you are happy with less granularity within the field 1-2862, so you will need less that 6 budget proposals and it will be cheaper.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Can mnowatch produce a graph showing the number of individuality over a prolonged period of time? I realize it may not reflect the actual number as the evidence has a time lag and may apply retroactively, but still I think it would be interesting.

 

[vazaki3]

Can mnowatch produce a graph showing the number of individuality over a prolonged period of time? I realize it may not reflect the actual number as the evidence has a time lag and may apply retroactively, but still I think it would be interesting.

No, we dont keep track on the changes of the 500VotingReports/manually/blockchain/temporalAnalysis_proved individuals. This is something we certainly need to do, but it needs development (recently we started adding the date of the discovery of every individual, so this can be used into a graph).

But we keep track on the approximation of the voting individuals, the disctibution. I think @strophy has already a graph about it, ask him.

Furthermore, every uniqueHashvotes report has a number before the .html . For example for this one https://mnowatch.org/the_results_dashd_2022-12-10-21-32-33.uniqueHashVotes.142.html , this 142 is the approximation of individuals, as reported in the relevant distribution (those who do not vote at all are considered as a single individual). So someone can just curl or wget all the uniqueHashvotes reports from the mnowatch page, cut this number in their name, and create a graph. You can even tooltip uniqueHashvotes reports in the the main mnowatch page , down left in your browser appears the url, and thus you can have an idea on how this number changes. Although the most accurate measurement is to examine only the reports that are tagged as EndOfVote in the main mnowatch page. The oldest EndOfVote report had 417 approximate voting individuals, the latest 125.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

The oldest EndOfVote report had 417 approximate individuals, the latest 125.

So this is some evidence, though inconclusive, to point to growing centralization? It could just be an improved identification process, right?

 

[vazaki3]

So this is some evidence, though inconclusive, to point to growing centralization? It could just be an improved identification process, right?

No...the specific identification process is exactly the same. Do not confuse this primitive identification process to the latest 500_reports/blockchain/temporal_analysis identification. This primitive identification although based only on the hash of the votes that appear in the reports, it takes into account ALL the voting individuals (while the latest improved identification takes into account only the individuals who appear to have voted in a unique way for more than 500 voting reports). So, in that sense and in governance terms, the primitive identification can be considered more accurate than the latest one.

So it is certainly an evidence of centralization. The numbers 417 and 125 emerged by using exactly the same identification process, so if we examine all the EndOfVote reports we can safely conclude whether Dash became more centralized or not. Without having examined all the 46 EndOfVote reports, I feel that the centralization increased. From about 400-450 individuals back in 2019, the community is now governed by about 100-150 individuals.

And I am afraid that if the 4k HPMN proposal passes, this will lead to more centralization.

Do the math. If you sort "line:MNS" collumn in the latest EndOfVote report (967 masternodes voted there), and assume that all individuals holding more than 3k will vote in favor of 4k_HPMN, then against the 4k_HPMN proposal should vote only 49 + 34 + 21 = 104 masternodes. The number of NO votes is currently doubled (208), because many individuals holding more than 3k recognize that it is an unfair decision to steal the rewards from the 1-3k masternodes. But most of those who hold a lot of masternodes are short-sighted and approve the robbery and the taxation of the sardines. Thats life in this evil dominated universe.

If 4k_HPMN proposal passes it will lead to the extinction of 1-3k sardines, so centralization will increase (a reduction of masternodes from 5000 to 2500 is already designed by DCG). The increase of centralization and the extinction of the 1-3k sardines will not be an accident, DCG expects this to happen and designed for this to happen, also I suspect that some members of DCG not only expect it and designed it, but also pray for it.

As you can see above in Rion's superb video , if the 4k(10k) proposal passes the economic analysis reveal that it will result the reduction of masternodes from 5000 to 2500(2180).

What can an ordinary masternode (that owns less than 4k) do in order to prevent this catastrophic senario? The only way to stop the reduction of the number of the masternodes (if the 10k or 4k proposal passes) is to change the hardcoded (by the DCG) number of the 50% rewards allocated to the DashPlatform (a reward stolen from the masternodes's reward).

But how can we change that number? As always, the way to strike the stupid and the agents is to vote the numbers. And how can we vote the numbers in the current budget system?

 

[kot]

@QuantumExplorer
I just checked the proposals, it looks like your recommended solution is getting close to be approved.
You, and number of other DCG team members, have spent an enormous amount of time here (and probably even more on Discord) engaging back and forth with a few heavy ego-centric personalities, who apparently possess not really significant voting power (so despite being vocal, they don't represent the network as they like to pretend quite frequently).
I trust you understand at this time that you will never be able to satisfy everyone and you will never be able to deliver perfection.

Think where the project would be if you have spent all of this time developing the code, coaching/mentoring your team and eg. searching for a new CEO.
Just a food for thoughts.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

I think it is just as telling to see the Jan-Mar Compensation proposal sitting at 1 in 7 voting No. This alone should be your warning sign.

 

[Adding1kDash]

The following decision proposals have just landed on the matter.

Proposal "EVO-DECISION-EVERY-NODE-RUNS-PLATFORM" - DashCentral.org

[Evolution Decision]: Every Masternode must run Platform Solution

www.dashcentral.org

Proposal "EVO-DECISION-4K-HPMN" - DashCentral.org

[Evolution Decision]: 4K Dash Collateral High Performance Masternode Solution

www.dashcentral.org

Proposal "EVO-DECISION-10K-HPMN" - DashCentral.org

[Evolution Decision]: 10K Dash Collateral High Performance Masternode Solution

www.dashcentral.org

This what I was affraid of it was never ever about "EVERY NODE MUST". The option just let it open to wants to run it and who does not, the reward split of only 20% or something would only give a few masternode the incentive to run it.

What totall and utter ##%#%#R$#R# Quantumexplorer has turned out being. Looks like he will get away with centralizing Dash. Dash is going down the drain it looks like.

 

[xkcd]

The 4k HPMN option has just reached funding! https://mnowatch.org/leaderboard/analysis/?20221214111002

1. With a total vote count of 830 votes, out of a possible 3857, for a % of 21.5% of the MN network.
   
   
2. That's one in five MNs that votes on this proposal.
   
   
3. Surprisingly, both the 1k options are highly unpopular, who else is surprised by that?

 

[peter]

Surprisingly, both the 1k options are highly unpopular,

Why surprisingly?

IMO the FAQ explains quite well, why the 4k and 10k solutions are superior.

And 2 or 3 very loud voices here on the forum absolutely don't represent any majority.

 

[vazaki3]

The 4k HPMN option has just reached funding! https://mnowatch.org/leaderboard/analysis/?20221214111002

The above temporal analysis reveals a whale, proponent of the 4k_HPMN proposal, that tries to hide and to appear as sardine.
I am talking about THIS 28 masternodes whale, not yet classified by mnowatch.

1. Surprisingly, both the 1k options are highly unpopular, who else is surprised by that?

Why surprisingly?

We expected 104 NO votes for the 4k_HPMN proposals. We currently have 216 NO votes. The surprise is the big number of NO votes.
The YES votes for the 4k_HPMN (and respectively the NO votes for the 1k props) were expected.

Read below my analysis.

Do the math. If you sort "line:MNS" collumn in the latest EndOfVote report (967 masternodes voted there), and assume that all individuals holding more than 3k will vote in favor of 4k_HPMN, then against the 4k_HPMN proposal should vote only 49 + 34 + 21 = 104 masternodes. The number of NO votes is currently doubled (208), because many individuals holding more than 3k recognize that it is an unfair decision to steal the rewards from the 1-3k masternodes. But most of those who hold a lot of masternodes are short-sighted and approve the robbery and the taxation of the sardines. Thats life in this evil dominated universe.

If 4k_HPMN proposal passes it will lead to the extinction of 1-3k sardines, so centralization will increase (a reduction of masternodes from 5000 to 2500 is already designed by DCG).. The increase of centralization and the extinction of the 1-3k sardines will not be an accident, DCG expects this to happen and designed for this to happen, also I suspect that some members of DCG not only expect it and designed it, but also pray for it.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

'

Why surprisingly?

IMO the FAQ explains quite well, why the 4k and 10k solutions are superior.

And 2 or 3 very loud voices here on the forum absolutely don't represent any majority.

Well I guess I am one of the loud voices and I say certain facts are being ignored. 216 voices said No and there were zero abstains. We shall see what mnowatch says but quite possibly this "minority" of voices were people too far away from reaching 4K dash collateral, hence their decision. The 1K options were discounted by Sam and did not include feedback, such as lower collateral for regular masternodes. Not to say the results would of been different (who knows), but this is intentionally not listening to a passionate and vocal group, some of whom may be dedicated OGs whom evangelized to make dash what it is today.

So, despite this "poll" that ignored ALL feedback and alternatives, what you see amounts to manufactured consent. If Sam was genuine in his pursuit, these proposals would of been adapted accordingly and different solution presented, not just HPMNs. Oh yeah, that's right, Sam declared there are no other viable options.

I will repeat this again and again, this is a one way process of gentrification.

 

[vazaki3]

2 or 3 very loud voices here on the forum absolutely don't represent any majority.

In the budget, we have a majority of masternodes, not a majority of individuals.

Furthermore, when 2 wolves and a lamb vote on what to have for lunch, you should expect the lamb to bleat, shouldnt you? Of course the lamb has still hope, provided it is a smart lamb and will ask to vote the numbers on whether all of his legs will be eaten or maybe at least one leg will be preserved.

 

[vazaki3]

The real sardines and a dolphin reacted against the YES votes of the 28whale (who pretended to be a sardine). Currently the 4k_HPMN proposal passes having only 1 vote surplus! Have a look here--> DASH Proposal Analysis for 2022-12-14 18:00:05 (mnowatch.org)

Even myself, holding just one vote, can decide the outcome of the 4k_HPMN proposal now!

Of course nothing is certain, because the crowdnoders' vote is not currently reflected into the budget.
I am really curious of what their vote for the c2a2a4ff08b200d0fd31c2abcca16b81e5cebb8842c2ab119485fd336337edf9 proposal ( the 4k_HPMN' hash) will be.
For example, have a look at this crowdnoder (who owns 1058 dash), he/she didnt vote yet about 4k_HPMN, his/her vote is currently set to DELEGATE.

Me and @xkcd can certainly predict the outcome of the votes of the crowdnoders many days before their final vote will be casted by the crowdnode admins into the budget (they do it a few hours before the end of the voting cycle). But we have to write a little code more. Tips for the mnowatch development here Xy7bXZd5BE8XrtHNUvUd6WfHhai8fozfxy , are welcome....

 

[kot]

There is nothing special about „Sardine” or „Dolphin”.
Playing emotional card to portrait whales as evil actors is childish. Dash DAO is not a social justice system but a part of financial system. Money matters.

 

[Adding1kDash]

The 4k HPMN option has just reached funding! https://mnowatch.org/leaderboard/analysis/?20221214111002

View attachment 11550

1. With a total vote count of 830 votes, out of a possible 3857, for a % of 21.5% of the MN network.
   
   
2. That's one in five MNs that votes on this proposal.
   
   
3. Surprisingly, both the 1k options are highly unpopular, who else is surprised by that?

Jupp Dash is pretty much screwed, after years of sticking up for Dash against hypy centralized projects now Dash is becoming one. This every embarrassing to have spend so much time defending Dash. Sure Dash will recieve a nice hype up and will do pretty good next bullrun. But its time to say good bye not sure what project do is doing it better. Some Dash clones to look at atleast.

 

[vazaki3]

There is nothing special about „Sardine” or „Dolphin”.
Playing emotional card to portrait whales as evil actors is childish. Dash DAO is not a social justice system but a part of financial system. Money matters.

Dash DAO is a social system. Maybe not a justy system, but a social system for sure. Every decentralized system that consists of more than one individuals, is a society system by definition. Trying to ignore the social impacts of a DAO is very short sighted.

Money matters of course, but on what money are you reffering to? Dash or USD? That is also a social reference. If you support the idea the rich dollars guys to invade DASH , and steal the rewards from the 1-3k masternode holders, this is a social decision. If you want to make DASH an elite club for the rich dollar guys, this will have serious impacts (negative in my opinion) for the future of the DASH society. Because money is also a social convention. Remember, some of us earn Dash without spending a single USD, by working or by mining. If you want to expel this kind of Dash community members and invite only fat rich lazy dollar guys, the quality of the Dash community members will decrease and the Dash cryptocurrency will severily bleed.

 

[kot]

No, Dash DAO is not a social system. It is the governance system for the financial network.
Utopian ideologies never do and did any good for business environment - so f**k social justice and socialist lunatics playing emotions.